Options
If you had to guess, what % of expensive US coins now reside in slabs?
PerryHall
Posts: 46,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
For this discussion, let's assume any coin worth over $1,000 to be expensive. Don't include bullion such as AGE's, kruggerrands, etc.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
0
Comments
The percentage gets higher as the cut-off number for your definition of expensive gets higher.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>This is very hard to estimate given the price of gold and the value of generic gold at the moment. I think the number is not as high as one might think. In view of this fact, I am going to say about 28.5% >>
If you only considered expensive collector coins and excluded bullion (ASE's, AGE's, kruggerrands, etc), what would you guess?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If you narrow it down to non-bullion US Coins worth over $1000, that might be easier ... and I would suspect
that number to be right in the 50% range (45 to 55%) ... but that is nothing more than a WAG.
When you consider all non-bullion coins worth over $1000. I am absolutely certain that number is decidedly lower.
editted to add: after reading 500bay's response (below), my WAG is overstated I think. I did not consider
"unslabbables".
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
PCGS has certified 3,697
NGC another 1,900
ANACS 4,923 more
So my guess is 87.6666666666% (using the 12,000 estimate). Small wonder they're moving to non-US coins.
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
<< <i>Dave Bowers estimated that 6,000 to 12,000 1893-S Morgans exist.
PCGS has certified 3,697
NGC another 1,900
ANACS 4,923 more
So my guess is 87.6666666666% (using the 12,000 estimate). Small wonder they're moving to non-US coins.
I would estimate that crack-outs and resubmissions of 1893-S Morgans account for a very large number of the total submitted at PCGS and NGC.
<< <i>Well, if any coin worth over 1k is not in a TPG slab there's likely a reason for it. JMHO. >>
Yep, such as the current owner doesn't need the coin to be in a slab to feel their collection is validated.
Collecting:
Conder tokens
19th & 20th Century coins from Great Britain and the Realm
<< <i>Well, if any coin worth over 1k is not in a TPG slab there's likely a reason for it. JMHO. >>
That's just silly.
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, if any coin worth over 1k is not in a TPG slab there's likely a reason for it. JMHO. >>
That's just silly. >>
CCU---If you see a very expensive coin in a dealers display case and it's raw, aren't you just a little suspicious?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Well, if any coin worth over 1k is not in a TPG slab there's likely a reason for it. JMHO. >>
Enjoy the Koolaide. Grape, right?
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again and again... If any coin worth over 1k is not in a TPG slab there's likely a reason for it. JMHO. I'm guessing the vast majority of collectors probably feel the same way, or at least have suspicions when they see a high ticket vintage coin not in a TPG slab. >>
I agree with you if a dealer is selling it retail. But there are a great number of high dollar coins in collections that are raw. Just look at the Stack's auctions over the past decade.
Fats, that's really what I was trying to get at.
<< <i>
<< <i>I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again and again... If any coin worth over 1k is not in a TPG slab there's likely a reason for it. JMHO. I'm guessing the vast majority of collectors probably feel the same way, or at least have suspicions when they see a high ticket vintage coin not in a TPG slab. >>
I agree with you if a dealer is selling it retail. But there are a great number of high dollar coins in collections that are raw. Just look at the Stack's auctions over the past decade. >>
I wonder how many of those were cracked out to be sold raw.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again and again... If any coin worth over 1k is not in a TPG slab there's likely a reason for it. JMHO. I'm guessing the vast majority of collectors probably feel the same way, or at least have suspicions when they see a high ticket vintage coin not in a TPG slab.
It really depends on the context. If I walk up to Doug Bird or John Krajevich's table at a coin show, it never crosses my mind. I have purchased expensive raw coins from both of these gentlemen. If I were to see a raw one at the Legend or Doug Winter table (and I never have), I would assume that the coin was a no-grade.
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, if any coin worth over 1k is not in a TPG slab there's likely a reason for it. JMHO. >>
Yep, such as the current owner doesn't need the coin to be in a slab to feel their collection is validated. >>
This is so true.
Dizz.....you are not even close to what a "real" collector thinks. Sorry.
I agree with RYK that as the $ amount increases so does the percentage, and
when you get into the 5 figure plus range the percentage becomes very high. And at the TDN/SG level you
are well over 90%, maybe even 95%.
There are a lot of nice coins in nice collections that do not need the stamp of
approval so many want/need.
As time goes by more and more high dollar coins will be slabbed as they come to market though.
The TPG craze is not that old.
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, if any coin worth over 1k is not in a TPG slab there's likely a reason for it. JMHO. >>
Yep, such as the current owner doesn't need the coin to be in a slab to feel their collection is validated. >>
Perhaps, but I'll bet they would feel a lot better about it if it was.
Actually, although it may be a harsh reality, I truly think it is the reality of collecting these days. Maybe not for someone collecting Lincolns from the 1970's but certainly for most who shell out some serious dough for a coin even if they are just simply a collector, they want to know that it's TPG approved and not otherwise messed with. Again, this is just my humble opinion and in no way is meant to offend. There is nothing wrong with substantial validation from one of the more universally accepted opinions in the hobby.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, if any coin worth over 1k is not in a TPG slab there's likely a reason for it. JMHO. >>
Yep, such as the current owner doesn't need the coin to be in a slab to feel their collection is validated. >>
Perhaps, but I'll bet they would feel a lot better about it if it was.
A very large percentage of collectors don't drink the Kool-aid.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, if any coin worth over 1k is not in a TPG slab there's likely a reason for it. JMHO. >>
Yep, such as the current owner doesn't need the coin to be in a slab to feel their collection is validated. >>
Perhaps, but I'll bet they would feel a lot better about it if it was.
A very large percentage of collectors don't drink the Kool-aid. >>
Well, I'm not sure what most collectors choice of beverage is, but when it comes to coins I'm guessing the vast majority of collectors would far prefer their coins in TPG holders.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, if any coin worth over 1k is not in a TPG slab there's likely a reason for it. JMHO. >>
Yep, such as the current owner doesn't need the coin to be in a slab to feel their collection is validated. >>
Perhaps, but I'll bet they would feel a lot better about it if it was.
A very large percentage of collectors don't drink the Kool-aid. >>
Well, I'm not sure what most collectors choice of beverage is, but when it comes to coins I'm guessing the vast majority of collectors would far prefer their coins in TPG holders. >>
Do you have these delusions often?
<< <i>Well, I'm not sure what most collectors choice of beverage is, but when it comes to coins I'm guessing the vast majority of collectors would far prefer their coins in TPG holders. >>
I think you need to get out a little more and talk to real collectors.
Basing most of your decisions on what you used to pine for on the ARC site is not collecting.
And I do not mean this disrespectfully.
Besides, I find it an incredible hassle sending coins in to a TPG when I know what they are and like to have them in my collection as is, and don't mind saving the slabbing fees to boot.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, if any coin worth over 1k is not in a TPG slab there's likely a reason for it. JMHO. >>
Yep, such as the current owner doesn't need the coin to be in a slab to feel their collection is validated. >>
Perhaps, but I'll bet they would feel a lot better about it if it was.
A very large percentage of collectors don't drink the Kool-aid. >>
Well, I'm not sure what most collectors choice of beverage is, but when it comes to coins I'm guessing the vast majority of collectors would far prefer their coins in TPG holders. >>
Do you have these delusions often? >>
I know, I know, sometimes reality sucks!
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, I'm not sure what most collectors choice of beverage is, but when it comes to coins I'm guessing the vast majority of collectors would far prefer their coins in TPG holders. >>
I think you need to get out a little more and talk to real collectors.
Basing most of your decisions on what you used to pine for on the ARC site is not collecting.
And I do not mean this disrespectfully.
Besides, I find it an incredible hassle sending coins in to a TPG when I know what they are and like to have them in my collection as is, and don't mind saving the slabbing fees to boot. >>
I certainly don't mean any disrespect either.
I know a lot and I mean A LOT of fellow collectors and as far as I can tell, every one of them have their collections in TPG holders for a number of valid reasons.
<< <i>more than 50%, with many expensive coins such as the 16d dime or 93s morgan, its very dangerous to buy raw with all the counterfeits out there. >>
Amen!
<< <i>more than 50%, with many expensive coins such as the 16d dime or 93s morgan, its very dangerous to buy raw with all the counterfeits out there. >>
If I wanted one of these, I'd be quite willing to buy one with an old ANACS or ANAAB certificate. The only reason to buy them slabbed would be because (unfortunately) they'd be more able to be found slabbed than with a certificate.
And to answer the thread topic question, around 10% or so. Look at the slab numbers for the S-VDB.
Ed. S.
(EJS)
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
if you increase the value to 5000, my guess is 51%. $50,000 76%.
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, if any coin worth over 1k is not in a TPG slab there's likely a reason for it. JMHO. >>
Yep, such as the current owner doesn't need the coin to be in a slab to feel their collection is validated. >>
Or, the current owner has been collecting since before plastics were invented, and when he hears the term "slab" he mentally adds "of beef."
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I've seen guesses from 10% to 80% so far. Not an easy question to answer, is it.
Answers range from realistic to dizzy.
Dizzy's response should not be a surprise, and not one that should be mocked as some have. Dizzy is a prototypical 21st century collector where the TPGs, and many dealers for that matter, have brainwashed them to believe if it is not in a holder it is a problem coin. And that is not necessarily a bad thing as it can keep newer collectors from being severely burned. But dealers are not altruistic in these teachings. It allows them to pass on dog's to newer collectors as the dogs plastic clothing hides many truths.
As to the original question to start this thread, a wild guess would be far less than half are encapsulated. Many large collections are old collections, most collected even before grading services existed. Also, many experienced collectors like their coins raw for better study. When these collections go up for sale, they will almost all be sent in for grading first.
Unfortunately, this is just the reality of collecting these days when a collector goes to a show and glass cases have raw unslabbed coins that carry significant value. As much as anyone here feels compelled to contradict this fact, I feel that trying to argue any other point is an effort in futility.
I agree with you if a dealer is selling it retail. But there are a great number of high dollar coins in collections that are raw. Just look at the Stack's auctions over the past decade.
If you look at Stack's auctions over the years, many of their raw coins IMO have been cleaned, AT'd or otherwise tampered with. The only expensive raw coins I would consider are early coppers, as EAC people prefer to keep them that way. That's why I wouldn't have a problem making a purchase from Doug Bird or John K, as Robert stated. Otherwise, unless I can trace the provenance of a coin (which would probably put it out of my league), no way.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."