When I used to run auctions back in the day.... People used to contact my buyers and tell them not to buy from us that they had the same exact coin cheaper.
Also, you'll be surprised how many second chance bogus offers other bidders got on fairly expensive coins.
I adopted the private feature back in 06’ after one of my good clients got scammed on a bogus second chance offer that looked like it came from us.
If you read any of my listings and scroll down you’ll see why I make my auctions private on anything over $200 and why I block the certs on certain coins.
Too many scam artists on eBay trying to find a way to hurt us and our clients.
It got so bad at one point a couple of years back I had to super-code everything on our listings which is about 80 pages long!
You too would be tired of people stealing your images, text and innovations.
Egads. Some of the posts in this thread just make me shake my head.
Instead of splitting hairs and parsing phrases to the Nth degree, can we take a step backwards and simply take a common sense view of the listing?
Reading the listing and viewing the pictures within the listing, would any person REASONABLY assume they were getting a 2002 MS rather than a 2002-W proof?
Absolutely not.
Some of the hair-splitters are in effect claiming that the lack of the letter "W" in the title invalidates or overrules both the listing description and the pictures. Say what? That is utterly inane.
OP, your listing is fine. Your auction terms are fine.
My initial gut reaction is: buyer's remorse trying to find a way out.
Would I trim down your boilerplate verbage? Yes, but that's a personal preference. As a buyer I hate wading through paragraphs and paragraphs of BLAHLAHBLAH when a few short sentences will suffice. In my experience as a seller, if you can say it with as much brevity as possible, the better it looks to the buyer (assuming you cover all the bases).
<< <i>a039 --- Yes I do ALL my slabbed coins are the actual coin sold and shipped. In the case of all our 70's we block the cert number in order to prevent someone stealing it and putting it in their registry set. >>
To avoid the possibility of this occuring, I register any coin I sell where I might be concerned about cert number theft. And yes its a pain in the butt but folks like to see their cert numbers.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
No mention of MS in your listing- header says PR, description says PR, slab images say PR and listing body says PR. I think your buyer needs to read what they are bidding on before they bid. You need to contact eBay to have the buyers neg removed.
Gotta love his feedback, "Headline was unclear..said 2002 Seller Delivered 2002W. Seller Very hostile, Tak"
Coindiva, the coin sold for $1.5k more than it is worth. You don't want to give his money back because you know that. So you've shown your satisfaction guarantee means "Satisfaction guarantee so long as it doesn't cost me money". Your posts seem to indicate that you think the neg is worth $1500 so take your neg, keep your money, and quit whining. That's my take on it. I'm a simple guy. --Jerry
I was firm by telling him to go pound sand, and if he thought he was getting a $25,000+++ MS-70 POP ONE coin for 5 grand he was barking up the wrong tree.
When I told him that he threatened to sue us. AGAIN WRONG!
<< <i>Thanks to this guy I'm going to be adding more crap (legal-ease) to my listings starting next month. >>
I wouldn't. I know you're angry at the moment, but that is the worst time to make decisions or changes.
One screwball out of thousands of buyers doesn't justify radically altering the way you do business.
We all get that inevitable first neg. You've been luckier than most in not getting one before now. Sometimes it's just the luck of the draw. Sure, you don't have that pretty little "100%" any more, but do you REALLY think that is going to alter potential buyers' perceptions of you? I think not.
1st off, welcome to the madness. 2nd, I'm with the 100% Satisfaction Guarantee folks; either it IS or it ISN'T.... My take is that your "foul-mouthed" buyer got cold feet; it got out of hand when you wouldn't honor your guarantee. Other than said "guarantee", I see nothing wrong with your ad.
I might circle the W in RED and make it blink in RED on the slab and on the coin.
It seems no matter how much info or crap as some might call it I put on my listings there's always someone that finds something wrong or does something stupid as in this case which makes me re-do all of my listings.
I have NO PAYPAL listed on all my listings you'll be surprised how many people paid me with paypal (pre 11/20) although I have large no paypal logos a bright red arrow pointing at my no paypal logo and finally paypal wasn't even an option.
The way things have been going on the bay lately it's almost pointless to continue selling there.
Who made up all those "new rules" over the last year anyway?
I remember when we all used to bit ch when Whitman was CEO she was actually not all that bad compared to the clowns that are running it now.
I have not read the entire thread, and forgive me if I this has already been asked and answered. Why is an attorney buying coins using his law firm account? This might be a matter for the IRS to discuss with him.
Otherwise, before I got tired of reading responses, I generally agreed with fc and MikeinFL. No matter what the motive or the rightness and wrongness (and I do not think you are 100% right in this case), who needs the hassle?
Let me share a piece of business advice. Don't spend another second of your time on this bad transaction. It will only bring you down and will not make you any money. Instead, think of good transactions you have had recently. Identify buyers you have had a positive relationship with. Then, call or email those customers. Catch up with them. Let them know you are available to them for any collecting needs they may have. Doing so will allow you to create stronger, more positve, and longer lasting relationships.
The bottom line is, you don't want to waste your time on bad customers. It doesn't make sense! That "lawyer" guy is a ying-yang, probably has always been a ying-yang, and will likely always be a ying-yang. I don't know about you, but I prefer to avoid ying-yangs.
<< <i>It's a PNG holdered coin not a CLCT holdered coin >>
Excuse my ingnorance .... but the scan indicates it to be a PCGS holdered coin (Parent company is CU & stock symbol is CLCT) why do you keep refering it as a PNG holdered coin?
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
He sent us payment from one of his company checks which said it was a law firm even his phone number checks as a personal injury lawyer.
I wonder what other crazy crap this guy will do to make us lose not only the coin but 1000's of $'s in legal fees over nothing.
I've seen one other guy do this to a registry member to the tune of around $30 grand in legal fees.
Everyone knows that all proof plats are made at the "W"est point mint not only that to be technical ALL Platinum bullion is minted at the "W"est point mint.
On the title it even says PR-70DCAM.
Seriously what has this world come to? This guy was expecting an MS-70 coin and figured that he would get me by leaving a lousy W out of the title?
Get this! He claims the he didn’t read the description or look at the pictures before buying.
Is this my fault?
I seriously doubt that he DID NOT look at anything due to the fact he made one offer for the coin which I rejected due to his low ball offer. He made a second offer meaning he had time to look over the coin more than once and I accepted the offer with a buy it now.
According to Bill (gnseagle) this guy simply found the coin for less elsewhere and after he bought it from us this is why he’s doing this to us.
The really screwed up part is that eBay is allowing this to happen to honest hard working sellers, and sellers can’t do squat about it.
I mean come on I can’t even leave negative feedback on this idiot.
I’m sure this one is going to get HOT fast. >>
If he used a company check to pay for this, chances are he is writing this off as a business expense. Report him to the IRS. I would bet he would get audited.
I'd keep playing. I don't think the heavy stuff will be coming down for quite a while!
<< <i>Jerry, when I'm done rebuilding from Ike and if you still have the coin let's talk.
I only buy PNG holdered Plat 70's that are pre 05' if you have newly graded plat 70's that are pre 05 I have no interest. >>
Personally, I find the reference to "PNG Slabbed" plats a bit misleading as it implies that these are of a higher quality than those coins graded after PNG stopped its PCGS Sponsorship.
A PR70 is a PR70 the same as an MS66 is an MS66. Things can be missed and literally any PR70 or MS70 coin can be argued over the grade.
Granted this has little to do with your current situation but you do continue to bring it up.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Jerry, what makes you so sure that the coin is worth less than my ask?
It's a PNG holdered coin not a CLCT holdered coin. It was the original pop 1 70 and it traded on teletrade for $9600 + juice a few years back.
I feel that coin is worth every penny it sold for.
Also, FYI I had way more into that coin than what it sold for but not the $9600 that was originally paid for the coin >>
It looks like it was $8200 and the prices quickly dropped after that.
Regardless of WHAT a coin sold for in the past has little to do with what it would sell for today. If that were the case, then prices would never rise. I suspect that the original sale of the coin was simply a "gotta have it now" type scenario.
BTW, my Teletrade search went back 4,000 days.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Wow. didn't read all of the posts. But, there clearly was no material misrepresentation. Looks like a unilateral mistake on the part of the buyer. Paid over market but not to the level to invoke unconscionable argument.
It does seem that the buyer thought he was getting a deal that was too good to be true. Moving too fast and paid the price. Method of payment gives pause too.
I don't want to get into the middle of the quarrel as far as the return privilege issue - you state that ANA standards apply - so it is what it is - right? Whatever that standard IS -that is the standard I suspect you will abide by (and your buyer will be following as well) - at least that is the way I see it.
But, I did want to comment on the "PNG" PCGS slabs vs. the later graded slabs as it pertains to PCGS 70 graded Platinum. There is a key element (or two) of this not mentioned here that significantly impacts (IMHO) any suggestion that "PNG" backed slabs are essentially better quality than another type of slab.
1. The earliest PCGS slabs in Platinum PR70DC resulted in the HIGHEST AMOUNT OF 70 MATERIAL - look no further than the PCGS population on the 1998 $50 Platinum mostly graded in the 1998 era of that PCGS slab. There were more 70's graded for just that one year of $50 (all with early PCGS slabs) than ALL the 70's combined at PCGS over the past number of years in recent time!
2. For a period starting around late 1998 - 2001 , PCGS graded virtually NO 70 coins as a matter of policy at PCGS. In fact, when Rick Montgomery left PCGS and this issue was brought to David Hall's attention (who took over), he personally adjusted ("fixed") this situation (he even posted to this forum on the very subject back then). Hence, to suggest PCGS was "tighter" by merely looking at PCGS "pops" in the year 2001 or 2002 would be misleading IMHO since PCGS did not start grading PCGS "70" platinum coins again until around 2002 when DH took over (after a 3+ year break).
So, in summary - there are super quality PCGS 70 platinum coins graded in the past few years, there are lesser quality 70 platinum coins graded by PCGS at the earliest stages of inception of the Platinum program AND vice versa. EVERY COIN STANDS ON ITS OWN. Some of the most incredible PCGS-PR70DCAM Platinum coins I have ever seen have been graded by PCGS in the past 2 years and some of the weakest were graded early on. And, some incredible quality PCGS 70's were also graded early on and some recent 70 slabbings have been less than stellar IMHO. Having handled hundreds upon hundreds of PCGS 70 graded Platinum coins, I believe it is all about the coins, not the holders.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>It's a PNG holdered coin not a CLCT holdered coin >>
Excuse my ingnorance .... but the scan indicates it to be a PCGS holdered coin (Parent company is CU & stock symbol is CLCT) why do you keep refering it as a PNG holdered coin? >>
IMO, it is because she's trying to justify selling the coin for more than it is really worth (which is, I suspect, exactly why she doesn't want a return -- she's hooked a live one and doen't want to lose it) -- not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that provided the buyer goes into the transaction with their eyes open. To wit, please see Jerry's (notwilight), Lee's (19lds), and Mitch's (Wondercoin) posts above.
Respectfully...Mike
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
The more I read this, the less I would care to deal with either party.
This is not the first time a newbie poster debuted with a mishap over a transaction, expecting to get unanimous support from the forum, only to find that he/she was not free from blame.
<< <i>I have not read the entire thread, and forgive me if I this has already been asked and answered. Why is an attorney buying coins using his law firm account? This might be a matter for the IRS to discuss with him. >>
I was going to ask the same thing. Both the IRS and whoever is running the law firm (assuming it is not wholly owned by the buyer) would likely be very interested.
Alot of use do it we write ck out of the business not to hide $$$$ it's just a pain to write your salf a ck cash it send one of yours. If he is trying to hide $$$ he would sand a M.O or pays with cash. Now if you have a refund policy and he can send it back you are out of luck. So next time you need to put no return on this item then you are covered.
I do not believe the buyer will sue, if he does just file a counter suit, make sure you keep his e-mail about "malicious prosecution" this in most states would get you treble damages (final judgment x 3 for the non lawyer types).
As far as your auction I only see two problems, one being that the certification number is not shown in the picture which he could claim that the item pictured is not what he received and you would have a hard time proving it is.
The second is over hyping the holder and insinuating PCGS changed their grading standards after this item was encapsulated, this on it’s own could bring problems for you from PCGS who could instigate a Libel Suit, which you would have a very hard time defending. This point may be one that he may be able to make a claim upon, and if push came to shove and he were to depose the CEO or President of PCGS I feel certain that they would disavow any change in there grading standard after the time the item was encapsulated.
If I were hearing the case I would consider it petty on the part of the “Lawyer” bringing the suit, that being said, if he were to take the actions mentioned above I would probably find in his favor as being misrepresented. Again not because of your failure to put “W” in the title, or that he expected an MS instead of Proof coin, but the rarity by insinuation that coins given a rating of 70 now are not worthy of the grade and that yours is by the fact that it has the PNG insignia on the holder is worthy of the grade.
Your next step is to consult an attorney if he pushes the issue any further.
Tim
On BS&T Now: Nothing. Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up! Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
I did post way back in the day until one of those times I got bashed by Russ.
If you got bashed by Russ, you probably deserved it. That alone means that I will block you as a buyer and seller, regardless of your position in the current mess.
I do know I got in the middle of something between him and Laura and I stuck up for Laura.
I also remember one time Marty got involved but that's been many moons ago.
RYK who cares if you buy from me or not one person one coin is not going to make or break our family business that's been around for almost 34 years.
As far as buying from you with that type of attitude who would.... You act like your crap doesn't stink. Glad your balls are bigger than mine, wait I don't have any.
I think this is a tough one. It was mislabeled as Rare and Uncirculated without a W but when the coin was received it should have been apparent what it was and shipped back within three days.
For that kind of money though someone should have a little knowledge of coins they are purchasing.
With the mint canceling all the proof plats except for the one ounce that might be a good coin long-term- I hope this works out for you.
<< <i>The more I read this, the less I would care to deal with either party.
This is not the first time a newbie poster debuted with a mishap over a transaction, expecting to get unanimous support from the forum, only to find that he/she was not free from blame. >>
<< <i>The more I read this, the less I would care to deal with either party.
This is not the first time a newbie poster debuted with a mishap over a transaction, expecting to get unanimous support from the forum, only to find that he/she was not free from blame. >>
"
that's a ditto >>
She has dropped several hints that she's not a 'newbie'.
Comments
When I used to run auctions back in the day.... People used to contact my buyers and tell them not to buy from us that they had the same exact coin cheaper.
Also, you'll be surprised how many second chance bogus offers other bidders got on fairly expensive coins.
I adopted the private feature back in 06’ after one of my good clients got scammed on a bogus second chance offer that looked like it came from us.
If you read any of my listings and scroll down you’ll see why I make my auctions private on anything over $200 and why I block the certs on certain coins.
Too many scam artists on eBay trying to find a way to hurt us and our clients.
It got so bad at one point a couple of years back I had to super-code everything on our listings which is about 80 pages long!
You too would be tired of people stealing your images, text and innovations.
He bought it with a BIN after two offers.
There was no bidding involved.
I stopped doing "core auctions" a long time ago.
Either the coin sells for my listed price or a strong best offer or it sits and waits til someone wants the coin bad enough.
I much rather sell quality coins for strong $ than destroy the market by selling my quality PNG holdered coins for peanuts.
That's my .02
Instead of splitting hairs and parsing phrases to the Nth degree, can we take a step backwards and simply take a common sense view of the listing?
Reading the listing and viewing the pictures within the listing, would any person REASONABLY assume they were getting a 2002 MS rather than a 2002-W proof?
Absolutely not.
Some of the hair-splitters are in effect claiming that the lack of the letter "W" in the title invalidates or overrules both the listing description and the pictures. Say what? That is utterly inane.
OP, your listing is fine. Your auction terms are fine.
My initial gut reaction is: buyer's remorse trying to find a way out.
Would I trim down your boilerplate verbage? Yes, but that's a personal preference. As a buyer I hate wading through paragraphs and paragraphs of BLAHLAHBLAH when a few short sentences will suffice. In my experience as a seller, if you can say it with as much brevity as possible, the better it looks to the buyer (assuming you cover all the bases).
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>a039
---
Yes I do ALL my slabbed coins are the actual coin sold and shipped.
In the case of all our 70's we block the cert number in order to prevent someone stealing it and putting it in their registry set. >>
To avoid the possibility of this occuring, I register any coin I sell where I might be concerned about cert number theft. And yes its a pain in the butt but folks like to see their cert numbers.
The name is LEE!
I thought I had all my bases covered.
Then this guy does this now you can see why I had to put all that crap on my listings.
You'll be surprised how many people will find a way to screw you on eBay.
This is one of them!
Thanks to this guy I'm going to be adding more crap (legal-ease) to my listings starting next month.
Gotta love his feedback, "Headline was unclear..said 2002 Seller Delivered 2002W. Seller Very hostile, Tak"
Auction Headline, "*RARE* 2002 PCGS Platinum $100 PR-70 DCAM 70 70 70!"
I hope this buyer is a better laywer than he is a bidder
It clearly says PR-70DCAM on the Title! I can see if I put MS on the title that would be a whole other issue.
the coin sold for $1.5k more than it is worth. You don't want to give his money back because you know that. So you've shown your satisfaction guarantee means "Satisfaction guarantee so long as it doesn't cost me money". Your posts seem to indicate that you think the neg is worth $1500 so take your neg, keep your money, and quit whining. That's my take on it. I'm a simple guy. --Jerry
I was firm by telling him to go pound sand, and if he thought he was getting a $25,000+++ MS-70 POP ONE coin for 5 grand he was barking up the wrong tree.
When I told him that he threatened to sue us. AGAIN WRONG!
<< <i>Thanks to this guy I'm going to be adding more crap (legal-ease) to my listings starting next month. >>
I wouldn't. I know you're angry at the moment, but that is the worst time to make decisions or changes.
One screwball out of thousands of buyers doesn't justify radically altering the way you do business.
We all get that inevitable first neg. You've been luckier than most in not getting one before now. Sometimes it's just the luck of the draw. Sure, you don't have that pretty little "100%" any more, but do you REALLY think that is going to alter potential buyers' perceptions of you? I think not.
Deep breaths and move on.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
Jerry, what makes you so sure that the coin is worth less than my ask?
It's a PNG holdered coin not a CLCT holdered coin. It was the original pop 1 70 and it traded on teletrade for $9600 + juice a few years back.
I feel that coin is worth every penny it sold for.
Also, FYI I had way more into that coin than what it sold for but not the $9600 that was originally paid for the coin
In case you didn't hear me the first time, I'll say it again, welcome to the Monkey House. Mike
I only buy PNG holdered Plat 70's that are pre 05' if you have newly graded plat 70's that are pre 05 I have no interest.
I've been a lurker for years watching all sorts of stuff goin' on here.
Actually it's not as bad as I thought.
People are being super nice to me here so far no bashing.
Everyone has their opnions so far about 95% agree with me which is a good thing especially coming from this forum.
K S
<< <i>Thanks to this guy I'm going to be adding more crap (legal-ease) to my listings starting next month. >>
I'm not sure that's going to help you much, if buyers aren't reading it. From your earlier post in this thread:
<< <i>Get this! He claims the he didn’t read the description or look at the pictures before buying. >>
It seems no matter how much info or crap as some might call it I put on my listings there's always someone that finds something wrong or does something stupid as in this case which makes me re-do all of my listings.
I have NO PAYPAL listed on all my listings you'll be surprised how many people paid me with paypal (pre 11/20) although I have large no paypal logos a bright red arrow pointing at my no paypal logo and finally paypal wasn't even an option.
The way things have been going on the bay lately it's almost pointless to continue selling there.
Who made up all those "new rules" over the last year anyway?
I remember when we all used to bit ch when Whitman was CEO she was actually not all that bad compared to the clowns that are running it now.
Otherwise, before I got tired of reading responses, I generally agreed with fc and MikeinFL. No matter what the motive or the rightness and wrongness (and I do not think you are 100% right in this case), who needs the hassle?
The bottom line is, you don't want to waste your time on bad customers. It doesn't make sense! That "lawyer" guy is a ying-yang, probably has always been a ying-yang, and will likely always be a ying-yang. I don't know about you, but I prefer to avoid ying-yangs.
<< <i>It's a PNG holdered coin not a CLCT holdered coin >>
Excuse my ingnorance .... but the scan indicates it to be a PCGS holdered coin (Parent company is CU & stock symbol is CLCT) why do you keep refering it as a PNG holdered coin?
<< <i>Dennis88
----
Trust me he's a lawyer.
He sent us payment from one of his company checks which said it was a law firm even his phone number checks as a personal injury lawyer.
I wonder what other crazy crap this guy will do to make us lose not only the coin but 1000's of $'s in legal fees over nothing.
I've seen one other guy do this to a registry member to the tune of around $30 grand in legal fees.
Everyone knows that all proof plats are made at the "W"est point mint not only that to be technical ALL Platinum bullion is minted at the "W"est point mint.
On the title it even says PR-70DCAM.
Seriously what has this world come to? This guy was expecting an MS-70 coin and figured that he would get me by leaving a lousy W out of the title?
Get this! He claims the he didn’t read the description or look at the pictures before buying.
Is this my fault?
I seriously doubt that he DID NOT look at anything due to the fact he made one offer for the coin which I rejected due to his low ball offer. He made a second offer meaning he had time to look over the coin more than once and I accepted the offer with a buy it now.
According to Bill (gnseagle) this guy simply found the coin for less elsewhere and after he bought it from us this is why he’s doing this to us.
The really screwed up part is that eBay is allowing this to happen to honest hard working sellers, and sellers can’t do squat about it.
I mean come on I can’t even leave negative feedback on this idiot.
I’m sure this one is going to get HOT fast. >>
If he used a company check to pay for this, chances are he is writing this off as a business expense. Report him to the IRS. I would bet he would get audited.
<< <i>Jerry, when I'm done rebuilding from Ike and if you still have the coin let's talk.
I only buy PNG holdered Plat 70's that are pre 05' if you have newly graded plat 70's that are pre 05 I have no interest. >>
Personally, I find the reference to "PNG Slabbed" plats a bit misleading as it implies that these are of a higher quality than those coins graded after PNG stopped its PCGS Sponsorship.
A PR70 is a PR70 the same as an MS66 is an MS66. Things can be missed and literally any PR70 or MS70 coin can be argued over the grade.
Granted this has little to do with your current situation but you do continue to bring it up.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>notwilight
Jerry, what makes you so sure that the coin is worth less than my ask?
It's a PNG holdered coin not a CLCT holdered coin. It was the original pop 1 70 and it traded on teletrade for $9600 + juice a few years back.
I feel that coin is worth every penny it sold for.
Also, FYI I had way more into that coin than what it sold for but not the $9600 that was originally paid for the coin >>
It looks like it was $8200 and the prices quickly dropped after that.
Regardless of WHAT a coin sold for in the past has little to do with what it would sell for today. If that were the case, then prices would never rise. I suspect that the original sale of the coin was simply a "gotta have it now" type scenario.
BTW, my Teletrade search went back 4,000 days.
The name is LEE!
It does seem that the buyer thought he was getting a deal that was too good to be true. Moving too fast and paid the price. Method of payment gives pause too.
I don't want to get into the middle of the quarrel as far as the return privilege issue - you state that ANA standards apply - so it is what it is - right? Whatever that standard IS -that is the standard I suspect you will abide by (and your buyer will be following as well) - at least that is the way I see it.
But, I did want to comment on the "PNG" PCGS slabs vs. the later graded slabs as it pertains to PCGS 70 graded Platinum. There is a key element (or two) of this not mentioned here that significantly impacts (IMHO) any suggestion that "PNG" backed slabs are essentially better quality than another type of slab.
1. The earliest PCGS slabs in Platinum PR70DC resulted in the HIGHEST AMOUNT OF 70 MATERIAL - look no further than the PCGS population on the 1998 $50 Platinum mostly graded in the 1998 era of that PCGS slab. There were more 70's graded for just that one year of $50 (all with early PCGS slabs) than ALL the 70's combined at PCGS over the past number of years in recent time!
2. For a period starting around late 1998 - 2001 , PCGS graded virtually NO 70 coins as a matter of policy at PCGS. In fact, when Rick Montgomery left PCGS and this issue was brought to David Hall's attention (who took over), he personally adjusted ("fixed") this situation (he even posted to this forum on the very subject back then). Hence, to suggest PCGS was "tighter" by merely looking at PCGS "pops" in the year 2001 or 2002 would be misleading IMHO since PCGS did not start grading PCGS "70" platinum coins again until around 2002 when DH took over (after a 3+ year break).
So, in summary - there are super quality PCGS 70 platinum coins graded in the past few years, there are lesser quality 70 platinum coins graded by PCGS at the earliest stages of inception of the Platinum program AND vice versa. EVERY COIN STANDS ON ITS OWN. Some of the most incredible PCGS-PR70DCAM Platinum coins I have ever seen have been graded by PCGS in the past 2 years and some of the weakest were graded early on. And, some incredible quality PCGS 70's were also graded early on and some recent 70 slabbings have been less than stellar IMHO. Having handled hundreds upon hundreds of PCGS 70 graded Platinum coins, I believe it is all about the coins, not the holders.
Wondercoin
<< <i>I love how he calls me hostile in my feedback. >>
While I would like to believe you, how do we know that you weren't hostile?
Please post the correspondence between you two so we can judge for ourselves.
As we have seen in similar situations, wording that seems innocuous to some can be read quite differently by others.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>A couple weeks back I sold item number 140260401755 to a lawyer on eBay. >>
I'll bet you money the guy is NOT a lawyer. He's just trying to intimidate you. Tell him you'll see him in court.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's a PNG holdered coin not a CLCT holdered coin >>
Excuse my ingnorance .... but the scan indicates it to be a PCGS holdered coin (Parent company is CU & stock symbol is CLCT) why do you keep refering it as a PNG holdered coin? >>
IMO, it is because she's trying to justify selling the coin for more than it is really worth (which is, I suspect, exactly why she doesn't want a return -- she's hooked a live one and doen't want to lose it) -- not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that provided the buyer goes into the transaction with their eyes open. To wit, please see Jerry's (notwilight), Lee's (19lds), and Mitch's (Wondercoin) posts above.
Respectfully...Mike
<< <i>
<< <i>A couple weeks back I sold item number 140260401755 to a lawyer on eBay. >>
I'll bet you money the guy is NOT a lawyer. He's just trying to intimidate you. Tell him you'll see him in court. >>
Read the entire thread as the item was paid for with a check drawn from a law firms account.
But I guess the buyer could have been a paralegal or even a clerk but I doubt it due to the size of the purchase.
The name is LEE!
This is not the first time a newbie poster debuted with a mishap over a transaction, expecting to get unanimous support from the forum, only to find that he/she was not free from blame.
<< <i>The more I read this, the less I would care to deal with either party.
>>
Have to agree. A seller that doesn't want to honor a blanket refund policy and a typical feebay bidiot.
<< <i>I have not read the entire thread, and forgive me if I this has already been asked and answered. Why is an attorney buying coins using his law firm account? This might be a matter for the IRS to discuss with him. >>
I was going to ask the same thing. Both the IRS and whoever is running the law firm (assuming it is not wholly owned by the buyer) would likely be very interested.
Hoard the keys.
So, it's okay for the business to transfer money to an individual for personal use without paying tax? If so, I need to hire your accountant.
<< <i>Alot of use do it we write ck out of the business not to hide $$$$ it's just a pain to write your salf a ck cash it send one of yours.
So, it's okay for the business to transfer money to an individual for personal use without paying tax? If so, I need to hire your accountant. >>
I think a few executives have been taken to task on this one!
The name is LEE!
As far as your auction I only see two problems, one being that the certification number is not shown in the picture which he could claim that the item pictured is not what he received and you would have a hard time proving it is.
The second is over hyping the holder and insinuating PCGS changed their grading standards after this item was encapsulated, this on it’s own could bring problems for you from PCGS who could instigate a Libel Suit, which you would have a very hard time defending. This point may be one that he may be able to make a claim upon, and if push came to shove and he were to depose the CEO or President of PCGS I feel certain that they would disavow any change in there grading standard after the time the item was encapsulated.
If I were hearing the case I would consider it petty on the part of the “Lawyer” bringing the suit, that being said, if he were to take the actions mentioned above I would probably find in his favor as being misrepresented. Again not because of your failure to put “W” in the title, or that he expected an MS instead of Proof coin, but the rarity by insinuation that coins given a rating of 70 now are not worthy of the grade and that yours is by the fact that it has the PNG insignia on the holder is worthy of the grade.
Your next step is to consult an attorney if he pushes the issue any further.
Tim
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
I've been watching for oh lets say around 6 years or so maybe longer.
I did post way back in the day until one of those times I got bashed by Russ.
Instead of feeding him I decided not to post anything til now.
I don't even remember my old use name it's been that long, and in all honesty I don't care to even inquire on what it might have been.
By the way I'm wondering why Russ hasn't put his .02 in.
<< <i>If you look at the teletrade chart even teletrade is calling is "impressive and QUITE RARE" >>
and 100% satisfaction gaurenteed means 100% ...... JMO
If you got bashed by Russ, you probably deserved it. That alone means that I will block you as a buyer and seller, regardless of your position in the current mess.
I do know I got in the middle of something between him and Laura and I stuck up for Laura.
I also remember one time Marty got involved but that's been many moons ago.
RYK who cares if you buy from me or not one person one coin is not going to make or break our family business that's been around for almost 34 years.
As far as buying from you with that type of attitude who would.... You act like your crap doesn't stink. Glad your balls are bigger than mine, wait I don't have any.
For that kind of money though someone should have a little knowledge of coins they are purchasing.
With the mint canceling all the proof plats except for the one ounce that might be a good coin long-term- I hope this works out for you.
<< <i>The more I read this, the less I would care to deal with either party.
This is not the first time a newbie poster debuted with a mishap over a transaction, expecting to get unanimous support from the forum, only to find that he/she was not free from blame. >>
"
that's a ditto
Excuse me while I step aside. Don't want to get dirt on my new shoes.
200!
<< <i>
<< <i>The more I read this, the less I would care to deal with either party.
This is not the first time a newbie poster debuted with a mishap over a transaction, expecting to get unanimous support from the forum, only to find that he/she was not free from blame. >>
"
that's a ditto >>
She has dropped several hints that she's not a 'newbie'.
Like I said in my very first post I've been a lurker for many many years.....
I learned my lesson many years ago not to get up in the herd's ways.
At this point in the thread I'm just going to have a little fun.