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Need Help! I need everyone to voice in on this one!
coindiva
Posts: 49
Hi guys and gals.
I've been a lurker here for many years reading and learning.
I've seen many heated threads over the years this time I decided it was time to show everyone here what's happening to me.
I've been selling coins on eBay since April 2004 without much of a problem other than the occasional non paying bidder which we've all had.
A couple weeks back I sold item number 140260401755 to a lawyer on eBay.
My question to everyone here…?
Is the coin properly represented?
In other words if you were shopping for this coin what would be your interpretation of the coin?
MS-PR?
I sold the coin as a PR-70DCAM shipped the exact coin shown on the listing.
The guy comes back and states he was expecting an MS-70 coin which sold for $25k++ a couple of years back and is still a POP 1 coin.
Now the guy has wrecked my feedback for no reason and has now threaten to sue us unless we refund him his $ for a bonehead he made.
I’m sticking to my guns on this one since the coin was properly represented and it DID NOT meet my refund policies which have been in place for a better part of 15 years and well before I was on feebay.
Thanks for taking the time and looking at this thread.
I've been a lurker here for many years reading and learning.
I've seen many heated threads over the years this time I decided it was time to show everyone here what's happening to me.
I've been selling coins on eBay since April 2004 without much of a problem other than the occasional non paying bidder which we've all had.
A couple weeks back I sold item number 140260401755 to a lawyer on eBay.
My question to everyone here…?
Is the coin properly represented?
In other words if you were shopping for this coin what would be your interpretation of the coin?
MS-PR?
I sold the coin as a PR-70DCAM shipped the exact coin shown on the listing.
The guy comes back and states he was expecting an MS-70 coin which sold for $25k++ a couple of years back and is still a POP 1 coin.
Now the guy has wrecked my feedback for no reason and has now threaten to sue us unless we refund him his $ for a bonehead he made.
I’m sticking to my guns on this one since the coin was properly represented and it DID NOT meet my refund policies which have been in place for a better part of 15 years and well before I was on feebay.
Thanks for taking the time and looking at this thread.
Selling coins one coin at a time. = )
0
Comments
Could you post your eBay handle. It might be easier to understand the question, for me anyway.
1-Dammit Boy Oct 14,2003
International Coins
"A work in progress"
Wayne
eBay registered name:
Hard_ Search (buyer/bidder, a small time seller)
e-mail: wayne.whatley@gmail.com
1-Dammit Boy Oct 14,2003
International Coins
"A work in progress"
Wayne
eBay registered name:
Hard_ Search (buyer/bidder, a small time seller)
e-mail: wayne.whatley@gmail.com
....looks fine, certainly a Proof!
<< <i>Your action looks fine to me LINK >>
Ditto here. Please out the buyer.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Auction Link
My family has been in the coin business locally since 1977 I took over the family business when my father retired.
Like I said I'm not here to get bashed on.
"Headline was unclear..said 2002 Seller Delivered 2002W. Seller Very hostile, Tak"
Stick to your guns, it was a sale. And clearly represented on your part.
Title clearly says PR-70, pictures of the coin clearly show pr-70 on the slab.
<< <i>Since 2004 where did you get 1964 from? Someone needs glasses. lmao
My family has been in the coin business locally since 1977 I took over the family business when my father retired.
Like I said I'm not here to get bashed on. >>
Need Help! I need everyone to voice in on this one!
You came to the wrong place then!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Dennis
Like VOC Numismatics on facebook
In a nutshell he's threatened us with legal action which is worth more than the coin is worth.
This is not good business if you ask me. I'm waiting for the ANA to weigh in on this one as well.
Anyone in their right mind needs to block this person before he reaps havoc with anyone that sells coins on the bay.
If you look at the feedbacks he’s left for others including my own you’ll see what this guy is all about.
And you had a BIN price of 5,150 and the buyer made you an offer of ONLY 4,992.56; which you accepted. So the cheap skate tried to shave another 150 off you?
Your refund policy seems clear to me. A deal is a deal, it's done. To protect yourself fully though, you may want to close your bank account to avoid a PayPal sweep
through it, removing the funds (I'm serious) while the perp keeps the coin.
Free Trial
<< <i>
<< <i>Your action looks fine to me LINK >>
Ditto here. Please out the buyer. >>
seneca21 (blocked)
then
only if someone is doing a search with 2002 and not 2002W.
The body of your auction is very clear to me, with W mentioned a number of times. look at the pictures!!!!
'
and I would say to the Lawyer.....
"what a jerk idiot, for someone that is supposed to be detail oriented you blew it"
Even though your auction is private OUT the bidder.
<< <i>
<< <i>Your action looks fine to me LINK >>
Ditto here. Please out the buyer. >>
Since he has his buyers marked as Private, if he outed the buyer he would be breaking the trust established between he and the buyer which could have other legal implications.
As for the auction itself, I don;t think he has grounds for a suit and will surely lose even more money pursuing this course. Your auction was not misleading in anyway and the buyer simply thought he was going to rip you. When he found out otherwaise, after he;d realized HIS error, he now wants out.
Tough luck!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Your action looks fine to me LINK >>
Ditto here. Please out the buyer. >>
seneca21 >>
Blocked.
Free Trial
<< <i>A couple weeks back I sold item number 140260401755 to a lawyer... >>
This is where I said, "uh oh."
I don't see anything wrong with your auction. Contact your eBay PowerSeller™ rep. As someone else suggested, buyer is possibly not really a lawyer, but just playing one on eBay.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
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Trust me he's a lawyer.
He sent us payment from one of his company checks which said it was a law firm even his phone number checks as a personal injury lawyer.
I wonder what other crazy crap this guy will do to make us lose not only the coin but 1000's of $'s in legal fees over nothing.
I've seen one other guy do this to a registry member to the tune of around $30 grand in legal fees.
Everyone knows that all proof plats are made at the "W"est point mint not only that to be technical ALL Platinum bullion is minted at the "W"est point mint.
On the title it even says PR-70DCAM.
Seriously what has this world come to? This guy was expecting an MS-70 coin and figured that he would get me by leaving a lousy W out of the title?
Get this! He claims the he didn’t read the description or look at the pictures before buying.
Is this my fault?
I seriously doubt that he DID NOT look at anything due to the fact he made one offer for the coin which I rejected due to his low ball offer. He made a second offer meaning he had time to look over the coin more than once and I accepted the offer with a buy it now.
According to Bill (gnseagle) this guy simply found the coin for less elsewhere and after he bought it from us this is why he’s doing this to us.
The really screwed up part is that eBay is allowing this to happen to honest hard working sellers, and sellers can’t do squat about it.
I mean come on I can’t even leave negative feedback on this idiot.
I’m sure this one is going to get HOT fast.
I fail to see any problems. The title states a 2002 Proof Platinum eagle, and it is. I would like to see him try to convince a jury it is not a 2002.
As far as the feedback: its laughable. This guy is a lawyer?
Okay, so you have been a member on eBay since 2004, and this may be the first time that this has ever happened. Maybe you were just lucky, or maybe you just don't have many lawyers as customers. The problem is that the way you structured the title gives the impression that the date is rare, not the grade. I assume you intended *RARE* to emphasize the grade. You have to think about where you place the words because, as you discovered, it can change the entire meaning. Granted, the lawyer should have read the entire description. On the other hand, maybe he did, and maybe he thought this would be the perfect opportunity to use it to his advantage.
Did the lawyer contact you before posting the negative feedback? It seems a little strange that someone with so much education would lash out via the feedback without first discussing it with you. In any event, I think you hurt your case by accusing the lawyer of being a scammer. You have no proof of that, just your gut feeling.
What was the final outcome? Did you get the coin bacK? Did you refund the money? If so, I think you would be better served if you just chalked this one up to experience and block the guy so you won't have to put up with him anymore. I wouldn't lose any sleep over your feedback rating. FeeBay has been making it harder and harder for the sellers to protect their reputation, and a lot of the sellers I know don't even care about the rating system any more.
Chris
I was always under the assumption that private bidding resulted in private feedback.
What the heck is going on?
The name is LEE!
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We don't accept paypal or at least this transaction took place before eBay's paperless policy.
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Thank GOD! This would have been the third time we were ripped off for nearly 5k due to false claims.
Anyone selling coins on eBay needs to rethink how they do business now that feebay will enforce the paypal only rule early next year.
All a scumbag like these needs to do is say "item not described" and wham there goes the coin the money and everything!
Imagine someone doing this to you for let's say $20,000. I don't know about you guys but a 20k hit in this economy would be devastating.
.... and the kicker the scumbag keeps the coin gets to post negative feedback and the seller gets NOTHING? please....
Due to this idiot doing what he’s done I went from around 200 items down to around 20 until eBay steps up and does something about it.
I pride myself with high quality coins I'm an NGC authorized dealer and have been for quite some time I've been a member of the ANA and TNA (Texas Numismatic Assoc.) for those of you that do not know for a few years with no issues until this idiot came along and has not attempted to destroy my business with this nonsense.
I sent him an email stating what he was doing was a tort to an adventitious business.
He types back outside of eBay of course.
“ You better look up the term "malicious
prosecution" because that's what you'll be dealing with.
Good Luck...”
I mean come on……
<< <i>Dennis88
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Trust me he's a lawyer.
He sent us payment from one of his company checks which said it was a law firm even his phone number checks as a personal injury lawyer.
I wonder what other crazy crap this guy will do to make us lose not only the coin but 1000's of $'s in legal fees over nothing.
I've seen one other guy do this to a registry member to the tune of around $30 grand in legal fees.
Everyone knows that all proof plats are made at the "W"est point mint not only that to be technical ALL Platinum bullion is minted at the "W"est point mint.
On the title it even says PR-70DCAM.
Seriously what has this world come to? This guy was expecting an MS-70 coin and figured that he would get me by leaving a lousy W out of the title?
Get this! He claims the he didn’t read the description or look at the pictures before buying.
Is this my fault?
I seriously doubt that he DID NOT look at anything due to the fact he made one offer for the coin which I rejected due to his low ball offer. He made a second offer meaning he had time to look over the coin more than once and I accepted the offer with a buy it now.
According to Bill (gnseagle) this guy simply found the coin for less elsewhere and after he bought it from us this is why he’s doing this to us.
The really screwed up part is that eBay is allowing this to happen to honest hard working sellers, and sellers can’t do squat about it.
I mean come on I can’t even leave negative feedback on this idiot.
I’m sure this one is going to get HOT fast. >>
I'd advise you not to say anything more on this subject. This is an open forum, and he may be lurking. You might want to delete any negative or derogatory comments.
Chris
<< <i>[
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Get this! He claims the he didn’t read the description or look at the pictures before buying.
Chris >>
Seriously? Make sure you keep wheree ver he made that comment to you, hopefully on a email.
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In fact we did have our disussion(s) He resorted to rude & vulgar language via the eBay message system and even resorted to call me a “dickhead” although I’m a lady.
Go figure.
When I told him to basically pound sand he insulted me some more and within 5 mins of the last insult the neg came my way.
As far as *RARE* in my title yes it’s a condition rarity being that’s a PNG holdered coin and not a new CLCT slabbed PCGS coin.
In my many years of doing this I’ve only seen a couple PNG examples of this very coin the rest of the pop is in CLCT holdered slabs that are hold fillers when PCGS started handing out 70’s like candy to attempt to keep up with NGC’s productivity.
First, you say:
Our policy as professional numismatists, has and will always be..... We offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee.
Then you go on to say:
To deter "window shoppers" we will not accept returns on coins certified by 3rd party grading services such as NGC ,NCS, PCGS, ANACS, ICG,, etc. unless those items are grossly misrepresented by us.
The bottom line to me, as a seller, would be that I would want people who purchase coins from me to be happy with them, not stick it to them because they were dumb enough to fall for the overhyped sales tactics and misleading/contradictory terms used in your eBay auctions.
If I were in your shoes, I would take the return and consider removing the term related to "100% satisfaction guarantee", because clearly you don't mean it.
Respectfully but truthfully yours....Mike
p.s. that isn't a rare coin.
I did not mention anyone's name nor did I state anything negative about this guy.
I just wanted everyone to weigh in on the facts that's all.
<< <i>Chris,
I did not mention anyone's name nor did I state anything negative about this guy.
I just wanted everyone to weigh in on the facts that's all. >>
Try turning on your Private Message (PM) option.
However, we do not refund monies on items that are not “grossly misrepresented” by us.
If we did… We would probably have every Tom, Dick, and Harry attempting to do this to us. We adopted this policy on eBay back in 2005 when people were attempting to do returns on PCGS gold one ounce bullion eagles when the market turned against the buyer(s).
The coin was clearly & properly represented, we’re simply not going to refund money due to buyers remorse that IS NOT part of the 100% satisfaction guarantee.
I’m sure anyone here would take up the same position as I have.
<< <i>p.s. your auction DID misrepresent the coin, IMO -- the coin isn't "MS", it isn't "*RARE*", and it has a W mintmark. >>
Where was it stated it was MS? It certainly is rare, it is one of a kind. The only one with this cert number. The auction stated it had a W mintmark.
The title gave the date of the coin, are you also saying this is incorrect?
<< <i>Hi Mike, We do offer 100% satisfaction guarantee and do so according to the ANA standard.
However, we do not refund monies on items that are not “grossly misrepresented” by us.
If we did… We would probably have every Tom, Dick, and Harry attempting to do this to us. We adopted this policy on eBay back in 2005 when people were attempting to do returns on PCGS gold one ounce bullion eagles when the market turned against the buyer(s).
The coin was clearly & properly represented, we’re simply not going to refund money due to buyers remorse that IS NOT part of the 100% satisfaction guarantee. >>
Calling a coin a 2002 when it is a 2002-W is grossly misrepresenting a coin.
Calling a coin *RARE* when there are thousands of examples is grossly misrepresenting a coin.
Trying to stick someone with a coin they clearly aren't satisfied with despite a "100% satisfaction guarantee" is the mark of someone who is trying to take advantage of someone else, not someone who stands behind their coins.
<< <i>I’m sure anyone here would take up the same position as I have. >>
I wouldn't.
Respectfully...Mike
p.s. dbldie55 -- I mistyped my prior response and have corrected the mistake.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Your action looks fine to me LINK >>
Ditto here. Please out the buyer. >>
Since he has his buyers marked as Private, if he outed the buyer he would be breaking the trust established between he and the buyer which could have other legal implications.
As for the auction itself, I don;t think he has grounds for a suit and will surely lose even more money pursuing this course. Your auction was not misleading in anyway and the buyer simply thought he was going to rip you. When he found out otherwaise, after he;d realized HIS error, he now wants out.
Tough luck! >>
We're talking about a PR-70DCAM coin get with the program.
Here's the question just in case you didn't read it properly....
Is the coin listed a proof yes or NO?
Is the coin on eBay with the BIN option misrepresented in anyway. YES OR NO? sheesh.
the coin and you would send them a check?
edited to add: you would also get your ebay fees back to i think.
basically you would have lost some shipping fees and some time...
but that is just me. i take the easy way out of situations.
<< <i>Mike where does it say anywhere that the coin is MS?
We're talking about a PR-70DCAM coin get with the program.
Here's the question just in case you didn't read it properly....
Is the coin listed a proof yes or NO?
Is the coin on eBay with the BIN option misrepresented in anyway. YES OR NO? sheesh. >>
I'm sorry, I misread the thread. The coin is a proof and listed as such, and I have revised my prior post on the topic. However I suggest the coin is misrepresented, and your return terms are contradictory. To wit, and since I was nice enough to answer your questions, now I have a few questions for you....
#1 - Do you or do you not have a 100% satisfaction guarantee?
#2 - Is the coin a 2002 or 2002-W?
#3 - Is a proof 2002-W $100 platinum considered *RARE* by any serious numismatists?
<< <i>Can someone show me a proof 2002 dated Platinum eagle that is not West Point minted? They must exist since people are saying the title is mis-leading. >>
If I list a 1916-D SLQ and deliver a 1916 SLQ, am I not misrepresenting the coin? Just because it isn't available doesn't mean it can't be misrepresented.
Said another way, if the seller is going to hit the bidder with a nitpick interpretation of contradictory terms, the seller should hold themselves to the same standard.
Seems pretty fair to me, but then again, I wouldn't offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee then not live up to it in the terms or in my actions....Mike
<< <i>It sounds to me like the check he gave you is a phony. Has is cleared yet? My guess is he is strong arming you into giving him a refund of money before you find out the check bounced. Looks like a scam to me! >>
I hardly think so since this auction finalized on 10/20!
The name is LEE!
However, the neg has been tossed and it seems that both parties want to run this one all the way to the end of the track.
I can understand CoinDiva's position and I can understand the buyers position however, I just cannot condon the buyers actions, as they were presented here, so he'll remain blocked.
CoinDiva should change her auction format fromr that "We offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee." to read "We offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee on Raw Coins." though or simply remove it all together since it is a bit misleading.
The name is LEE!