Revised GENUINE service

PCGS announced a revised Genuine service last Friday. The revisions in the Genuine service will begin with submissions received after Dec. 1st. Since I was the main proponent of these revisions let me offer some background and explain how things will work going forward.

For many years as a collector then as a dealer, I listened to collectors complain that they were disappointed to pay grading fees only to receive their coin back in a plastic flip (what we all lovingly refer to as a ‘body bag’). On more than one occasion I heard “PCGS could have at least put my coin in a holder’. So the genesis of the changes we are making to the Genuine process is exactly that – a response to the market. We realize that many collections contain coins that are impaired in some way, but that the collector would very much like the coin to be authenticated and housed in a PCGS holder. We are responding in a way that satisfies that need and I believe will greatly improve our service.

To begin with, participation in the revised Genuine service is optional, although all submissions will default to the new Genuine process unless otherwise specified. A new submission form, available Jan. 1st, will provide the submitter the ability to opt out of the Genuine process. This will apply to the entire submission (there can be no mixing). Coins that are determined to be impaired will be returned in a body bag. For submissions sent in after Dec. 1 on the old form simply write on the form ‘do not holder Genuine coins’.

The revised Genuine service will apply to all types of submissions as well as service levels. Coins that have been holed and plugged, counterfeited or have active PVC cannot be holdered under the Genuine service. Effective Dec. 1 the current Genuine service will be discontinued.

When specifying a minimum grade for crossovers you may now write the word ‘genuine’ in the provided space. This does not affect the ‘any’ designation which will still mean any grade, i.e., 1 – 70. So to be clear your options under the minimum grade column will be to leave it blank meaning the coin must cross at the existing grade or higher, any number 1 – 70, ‘any’, or ‘genuine’ (see section 4 on the reverse of the submission form).

Raw coin submissions will be either graded 1-70 or ‘Genuine’ unless you have selected not to accept Genuine holders (selection applies to the entire submission).

PCGS is modifying the coin inserts for Genuine coins as follows: on the obverse the words ‘PCGS Genuine’ will be printed. The format of the numbers printed on the obverse will remain the same. From the left - the coin number followed by a period, the ‘no grade code’ assigned (such as 92 for cleaned), a slash and a certification number. A list of no grade codes is provided below and is available on PCGS’ website www.pcgs.com/grades.chtml

No Grade Description

91 Artificial Color
92 Cleaning
93 Planchet Flaw
94 Altered Surfaces
95 Scratch / Rim Dent
97 Environmental Damage
98 Damage



The reverse of the insert will be modified on Genuine coins to print “GENUINE NOT GRADABLE”.

image image





We will not net-grade coins and will not print any other grading information. The no grade code to the right of the coin number is what should be used to determine the problem that PCGS has identified. Other than what has been mentioned the labels will remain the same, i.e., same color, design, etc.

Genuine coins will be eligible for variety attribution. This should be great news for collectors of many series such as CBH or early dollars where many coins, especially the rarer varieties, have been cleaned or impaired in some way.

Genuine coins will continue to be eligible for Registry sets. Coins in genuine holders will have a set value of one (1). Genuine coins are not eligible for ‘low ball’ sets.

We at PCGS hope that the revised Genuine process will help many collectors achieve their goal of completing their sets and having their coins authenticated and encapsulated by the most respected grading service in the world.
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Comments

  • Nice improvement on your service. Thanks.

    merse

  • seateddimeseateddime Posts: 6,374 ✭✭
    this is GREAT news!
    I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org

    Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.

    Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
  • Thanks, guys! image
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 10,845 ✭✭✭
    Don.

    Logical and sound.

    Will you be in Baltimore for the show?
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 17,115
    What if there were multiple items for the no grade decision?

    i.e. both cleaned, altered surfaces and environmental damage?

    Personally I think this is a great addition to the services. I like the idea of being able to organize all of my varieties in the same slabs.
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 13,891 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the explanation of the new service.


    << <i>Coins that have been holed and plugged ... cannot be holdered under the Genuine service. >>


    This surprises me a little. Is this because there is a part of the coin that is not original coin? Would a holed and not plugged coin holder as genuine but damaged?

    Oh, and welcome to the forum. image Don't be a stranger.
  • I think this guy is an alt for prenum. image
  • image Welcome to the boards on your first post Mr.President!image
    TIME FLIES...
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 19,411 ✭✭✭✭
    Has the price, perchance, changed? image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 17,115


    << <i>Has the price, perchance, changed? image >>



    I would say yes since it is included in the price of grading. image
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭
    Bravo, bravo!image
    BST deals: Dozens of buys/sells. Will provide a list upon request.
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom)
  • Two good questions

    1) If there are multiple problems the no grade code will reflect what we consider to be the most serious problem.

    2) Pricing will be no different than for any other coin submitted at the chosen service level. There will be no separate GENUINE prices.


    Thanks for all the positive comments.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 13,830 ✭✭✭
    Thank you for hearing and understanding your customers.image
    Its time....12/16/15
  • Is the E dropped from GRADE? I notice the label reads GRADABLE.


  • << <i>Is the E dropped from GRADE? I notice the label reads GRADABLE. >>



    Defective coins get defective labels. LOL


    You guys catch every mistake don't you?

    image
    image
  • Bravo! Excellent idea.
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 18,738 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Is the E dropped from GRADE? I notice the label reads GRADABLE. >>



    Defective coins get defective labels. LOL


    You guys catch every mistake don't you?

    image >>

    ...and I notice that Webster's says the correct spelling is "Gradable" image
    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • pcgs69pcgs69 Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Is the E dropped from GRADE? I notice the label reads GRADABLE. >>



    I went to dictionary.com and there is no listing for "gradeable," however there is one for "gradable"

    Go figure!
  • I guess it's just one of those words that looks wrong when it's spelled correctly. Something just didn't look right about it.
  • CameonutCameonut Posts: 4,560 ✭✭✭
    I appreciate the new service - it makes sense to me.

    Don, you appear to be one who seeks out feedback from dealers and collectors. I applaud this line of thinking - especially now that you are in a position to make a some changes.

    May I humbly suggest that you take a little of your valuable time and visit the Q&A Forum on these boards. This is a good place to receive questions/comments from the dealer/collector community. But you can take it one step farther - ask us a question on the Q&A Forum. You will likely get alot of great unsolicited feedback and ideas from us.

    Glad to have you aboard.

    “When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin
    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

  • jessewvujessewvu Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭
    it would be nice if you would describe the reason for it getting into a genuine holder. I am sure people are going to say that the coin has not been cleaned (or something else) because it is in a PCGS holder. I think until the mainstream market is made aware, people are going to use this to take advantage of people.

    SO, PLEASE LIST THE REASON FOR THE DOWNGRADE ON THE CERT OR PEOPLE WILL BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.
  • nankrautnankraut Posts: 4,238 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Thank you for hearing and understanding your customers.image >>

    image

    A GREAT step in the right direction, IMHO. In fact, I re-joined (platinum) today.
    Older than dirt, but younger than God. I'm so old, I have patina. Proud recipient of a genuine "you suck" award dated 1/24/05. Accepted into the "Circle of Trust" on 3/9/09
  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 6,782 ✭✭✭
    Please keep the label as designed. Anyone who does not know what it means should not be buying them.
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053

    imageimage
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 17,115


    << <i>it would be nice if you would describe the reason for it getting into a genuine holder. I am sure people are going to say that the coin has not been cleaned (or something else) because it is in a PCGS holder. I think until the mainstream market is made aware, people are going to use this to take advantage of people.

    SO, PLEASE LIST THE REASON FOR THE DOWNGRADE ON THE CERT OR PEOPLE WILL BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF. >>



    Not sure I agree with this. If it is in my collection I don't want a bold reminder of the issue, I'd rather have the space for special designations such as variety.
  • exclusion of plugged coins makes no sense, you now how many bust dollars are holed &/or plugged???

    but otherwise seems like a drastic improvement in service!

    K S
    "When you have two competing theories which make exactly the same prediction, the one that is simpler is more likely the correct one" - Occam's (or Ockham's) Razor (named for William of Ockham, a 14th century logician and Franciscan friar - slightly modified by dorkkarl)
  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 10,157 ✭✭✭
    This service sounds like a winner to me.

    I'll add my image
  • oops, also makes no sense to proclaim that a coin is "not gradable", far better to simply state it's "not graded".

    EVERY genuine coin that exists IS "gradable"

    K S
    "When you have two competing theories which make exactly the same prediction, the one that is simpler is more likely the correct one" - Occam's (or Ockham's) Razor (named for William of Ockham, a 14th century logician and Franciscan friar - slightly modified by dorkkarl)


  • << <i>

    << <i>it would be nice if you would describe the reason for it getting into a genuine holder. I am sure people are going to say that the coin has not been cleaned (or something else) because it is in a PCGS holder. I think until the mainstream market is made aware, people are going to use this to take advantage of people.

    SO, PLEASE LIST THE REASON FOR THE DOWNGRADE ON THE CERT OR PEOPLE WILL BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF. >>



    Not sure I agree with this. If it is in my collection I don't want a bold reminder of the issue, I'd rather have the space for special designations such as variety. >>






    Exactly! I never liked the ANACS details report right up front larger than the coin ID.
  • I still recommend that you:

    1) spell out the no-grade description to prevent misunderstanding and deception,
    2) use a different acronym on the holder so on-line buyers can search for graded coins without getting mixtures of “genuine” and “graded” responses, and
    3) use a distinctive color or style of label limited only to “genuine” coin holders.

    These measures will not degrade the PCGS product, but rather, will enhance the clarity and brand recognition of your product and trade dress.


  • << <i>I guess it's just one of those words that looks wrong when it's spelled correctly. Something just didn't look right about it. >>


    Not to get too OT, but the E is only retained when necessary to soften the preceding consonant,
    as in "manageable".

    BTW, I like the new service, particularly since it is not mandatory.
    "I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception." -Groucho Marx
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,029 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Thank you for hearing and understanding your customers.image >>


    I'll second that. I think this is a great idea.
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 13,292 ✭✭✭
    image
    Thank you for listening to your customer base.
    This is a very good move in my humble opinion.

    For all it may matter, I will now join at the Platinum level and send in a group of coins to show my appreciation.



    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • SCDHunterSCDHunter Posts: 634 ✭✭✭
    Can I send in my body-bagged coins at the reholder level of service?image
  • This is Fantastic! I just had a handful of raw coins BB'd - I was somewhat disappointed, but just chalked it up to a learning experience. I'll warm up my wallet and send them back after Dec 1. This is a great move by PCGS. Now I can get ALL of my coins in my favorite slab! Thank you very much PCGS.

    Bob
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 23,746 ✭✭✭✭
    Don,

    I think your reasoning, and the fact that many have asked for this same thing and PCGS is making the change to give it a whirl, is showing you are off to a good start.
    Good job

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment



  • << <i>image

    image

    image >>


    They got it right! The others don't convey the same exact meaning.
    "I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception." -Groucho Marx


  • << <i>I still recommend that you:

    1) spell out the no-grade description to prevent misunderstanding and deception,
    2) use a different acronym on the holder so on-line buyers can search for graded coins without getting mixtures of “genuine” and “graded” responses, and
    3) use a distinctive color or style of label limited only to “genuine” coin holders.

    These measures will not degrade the PCGS product, but rather, will enhance the clarity and brand recognition of your product and trade dress. >>


    image


  • << <i>oops, also makes no sense to proclaim that a coin is "not gradable", far better to simply state it's "not graded".

    EVERY genuine coin that exists IS "gradable"

    K S >>



    I guess the argument could be made that while every coin that exists IS gradable, not every coin (the problem ones, in this case) can or will be graded by PCGS.
  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,487 ✭✭✭
    Actually, as critical as I tend to be of PCGS and their business decisions, I really like this new approach. When I initially complained in another thread, it wasn't clear that PCGS would be providing the numerical code for the reason. It's especially good that Genuine coins are still eligible for variety attribution... now to expand the spectrum of varieties that PCGS recognizes, as well as adding medals and SCD. image
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,039 ✭✭✭
    I still challenge PCGS acceptance of chopmarked Trade Dollars for grading, while refusing to grade countermarked Bust Quarters of 1815 and 1825. This is a glaring contradiction of policy which I feel will be further ignored by the implementation of the "Genuine" service. The countermarked Bust Quarters of 1815 and 1825 may be mysterious in origin, but they are no less acceptable in the market than the graded chopmarked dollars, as proven in auction prices realized as well as fixed price offerings in holders of your competitor for more years than the PCGS graded chopmarked dollars have been available.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 23,746 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>oops, also makes no sense to proclaim that a coin is "not gradable", far better to simply state it's "not graded".

    EVERY genuine coin that exists IS "gradable"

    K S >>




    Cool.....this one will be on the way to PCGS then image
    image

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 20,065 ✭✭✭
    Great news, Don!

    A few things:

    1. Why the exception for holed and plugged coins? (It may be moot if you agree with #3 below, in which case the exclusion can probably go.)

    2. What about re-engraved coins?

    3. I've always hated the idea of stating the problem on slab inserts, but it never occurred to me that the backside of slab inserts was available real estate. Now that I see that it is, I'll suggest that the problem be noted on the reverse of the insert. This would be far more tolerable to the owners, and would help protect future owners.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic……………………...Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.

    image
  • robkoolrobkool Posts: 5,204 ✭✭✭
    Can't wait to send in my Bust Dollars, with it's varieties attributed... image
  • FANTASTIC!! I cant wait to send in my first "have no fear" submission list to PCGS.
  • Very cool move IMO.
    "College men from LSU- went in dumb, come out dumb too..."
    -Randy Newmanimage
  • BearBear Posts: 22,099
    This modifications wonderful. I can think of nothing

    that is left for anyone to find fault with.image
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭
    Some believe this move cheapens the PCGS brand.

    Comments?
    Share the joy and its multiplied by two.
    Share the grief and its halved by two.
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