The Panda: Precious Metal Coins from China
rgCoinGuy
Posts: 7,478 ✭
China's contribution to Precious Metal Coins come in the form of the cute Panda. As I am not an expert in these, I will leave it to Gecko and others to chime in more, but my question to the board is, given the low mintages, and high mark up over spot, are these really bullion coins?
I found a set of 10 of these recently for $18.00/each delivered using the Microsoft Cash Back program. They are definitely an attractive series, feel free to post your thoughts/pics etc.
I found a set of 10 of these recently for $18.00/each delivered using the Microsoft Cash Back program. They are definitely an attractive series, feel free to post your thoughts/pics etc.
Quid pro quo. Yes or no? 0
Comments
The Panda was/is a dual role coin. Initially sold at a slight premium over spot made it a bullion coin.
Because they change the reverse (Panda) design just about every year and the fact that the mintages are small
by comparison to, say ASE's the Panda has become a highly sought after collectable.
At $18 each you can't go wrong.
I like pandas just the price on them turns me off. If I find any at the B&M store for cheap I would buy them
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Thats a very nice pickup on those 95's.
Unfortunately, there are no deals to be had at my local coin dealer...
Once in a while I'm able to score some Panda Gold at a couple of Jewelry Stores close by.
I'm always willing to purchase anything close to spot...
Five 1995 gold 1oz pandas!
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The Panda Collector
<< <i>Here's a neat site for Panda info. Hasn't been updated since June 08, but has known prices for sales.
The Panda Collector >>
Thanks for the info! Good stuff!
<< <i>has anyone seen a counterfeit panda? If so, how could you tell? Do they look very much alike the real pandas with only slight differences? >>
Here is one I spotted as a fake. Do a little research (ebay) to see what a 1985 silver panda looks like. This one is a real fooler!
But as RWB mentioned......how many of you guys actually trust that the coin is silver? Someone should test one for fun..........
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<< <i>Considering the Chinese penchant for adulteration and fakery, do you think the Pandas actually contain the metal they claim? Do you trust their communist government for your capitalist acquisitions? >>
That's an excellent question. I recently had a Chinese supplier quote a stainless steel product with a material cost of 50% of the market rate for stainless. No company in the world can obtain it for that price. They seem to look the other way with regard to intellectual property, brands, etc. They have no qualms about adulterating food products with substandard and even dangerous substances. And we are all very familiar with the volume of counterfeit coins originating in China. What guarantee do we have that these are .999 silver?
The Chinese Communist government has a long, sordid history of supporting counterfeiting, fake and imitation products, adulteration, and piracy of intellectual property. The Communists support this because it is profitable and helps spread wealth throughout their huge population. Every few years they go through a token exercise and lop off a few heads, then it’s back to corrupt business as usual. It strains credulity that any product made directly by the Communist government is completely free of the same chicanery as the rest of China.
Further, it is difficult to understand why anyone posting on these boards would possibly buy gold or silver from a Communist government, and not direct their purchases toward the open and democratic nations. This is like the hypocrisy of former Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon (Harding, Coolidge and Hoover administrations) who spoke loudly and often about the evils of the Soviet Union, but secretly spent millions with the Soviet government to buy paintings from the Hermitage Museum at bargain prices.
<< <i>A comment for those with “Panda-itis:”
The Chinese Communist government has a long, sordid history of supporting counterfeiting, fake and imitation products, adulteration, and piracy of intellectual property. The Communists support this because it is profitable and helps spread wealth throughout their huge population. Every few years they go through a token exercise and lop off a few heads, then it’s back to corrupt business as usual. It strains credulity that any product made directly by the Communist government is completely free of the same chicanery as the rest of China.
Further, it is difficult to understand why anyone posting on these boards would possibly buy gold or silver from a Communist government, and not direct their purchases toward the open and democratic nations. This is like the hypocrisy of former Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon (Harding, Coolidge and Hoover administrations) who spoke loudly and often about the evils of the Soviet Union, but secretly spent millions with the Soviet government to buy paintings from the Hermitage Museum at bargain prices. >>
While I believe one can/should collect what they want I whole-heartedly agree with you!! I will not have anything to do with supporting Chinese communist regimes! Give me an Eagle, Maple Leaf or one of those Kooka-majiger thingys!!
Regards, John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
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Just out of curiousity, how many things you consume come from China or the middle east (which are also not open and democratic)? I am not saying I like that fact, but I started this post based on another post yesterday about why we don't post more about individual bullion coins and discuss them.
"it is difficult to understand why anyone posting on these boards would possibly buy gold or silver from a Communist government,"
As the person who started this thread, and posted that I recently purchased 10 of these, I felt the need to respond to this statement. There is a world coin forum here, along with the US coin forum, and we are actually in the Precious Metals forum. There is a whole lot more I would like to comment on, but due to the limits our host give us on talking politics, I will just say, everyone can and should collect what they like, and for someone to claim different, well, where is the freedom in that thinking?
(Hmmm…which fictional character passed off Cylon code as his own, thus bringing down all the defenses of the Twelve Colonies?)
Now that's
to think that my few little China bears are going to cause our demise!
Stack'um High!
John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
once bitten, twice shy.
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<< <i>Either one behaves ethically and according to certain principles or one does not. The real "chill" comes when one finds they have traded a few pieces of silver for their own extinction.
(Hmmm…which fictional character passed off Cylon code as his own, thus bringing down all the defenses of the Twelve Colonies?) >>
For you to attack people for buying China bullion is asinine at best. I would venture to say, you couldn't find 10 things
in your home or on your vehicle that doesn't have Chinese ties.... I would venture to say. The silver that your precious
ASE is stamped on very well may have come from China as well....China is the 3rd largest producer of silver..
And the answer to your little riddle is.....Doctor Gaius Baltar
I am going to offer you a 100% american made award for your outstanding insight to the world bullion market..
most of the items you are talking about in our homes are from US
companies who decided to have the parts made in china and asembled. they go through some quality control and tend to perform
a function that is easily identified as working or not.
we are talking about bullion that can be faked very easily by the
chinese and i would easily guess that 99.9% of the buyers of chinese
bullion never test it. thus is it good or not?
their whole economy... a huge portion revolves around counterfieting,
stolen ideas and patents, and cutting corners that harm others.
if you bought silver from china, say 25000 ounces, are you telling
me you would not do random assay tests?
the amount of fake bullion products that came back to the US is staggering from the olympics. It will be on ebay for years and years to come. it is accepted
in chinese society as a norm!
fake watches, purses, clothing, knock off dvd players, etc... everything!
WHY NOT BULLION?
the stretch of imagination needed is not huge. to deny the possibility
is silly.
heck, US coins are counterfieted!! gold, silver, even nickels over time.
soooooo... why not show proof?
Fake 1985 27g silver panda with Face Value on Ebay again!!
(already posted and the most famous example it seems)
http://www.pandausa.com/fake-panda-list.html
http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?NewsletterNewsArticleID=35
so what do you say now?
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<< <i>... I would venture to say. The silver that your precious
ASE is stamped on very well may have come from China as well....China is the 3rd largest producer of silver. >>
Absolutely not.
Under Federal Law all metal which is used to make both Gold and Silver Eagles MUST come from mining operations in America.
FWIW, it has always bothered me that the gold in the early Kruggerands was mined through slave labor.
As for the Pandas, well I've always purchased mine through American sources, though I do avoid products from China whenever possible.
I've made it a point to do that for years.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Thats is NOT what RWB is talking about. He implies that even if it were of the highest purity, and most reliable bullion in the world, we still should not buy it simply because it originated in a country who's government does not agree with HIS personal views. RWB, you better just stop buying ANYTHING at all if thats your stance. As others have posted, there are literally HUNDREDS of items in your own home and autos right this second that were produced by those communists!!!
Edited to add this afterthought: Furthermore, if every U.S. citizen bought as much CHINESE gold as possible, wouldnt the Chinese government be sitting on a pile of worthless paper while the citizens of this country sat on stacks upon stack of precious metal? If you disliked China as much as you say, wouldnt that be a GOOD thing?
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The aggravated risk of adulteration when purchasing from China is clear and well documented in multiple aspects of general business as well as numismatics. The Chinese Communist government also has a long record of condoning such activities.
As for consumer goods and other items, it is the purchaser who must decide whether they choose to support the Chinese economy (and by association their form of government) by buying products made there, or to purchase something equivalent made elsewhere.
(PS: I have no coins in slabs, but it would not be surprising to learn that many are made in China. The few coins I now own are in mylar flips bought decades ago. All the books I've published were printed in the USA - a deliberate, and more expensive, decision consistent with personal views.)
<< <i>"we are talking about bullion that can be faked very easily by the chinese and i would easily guess that 99.9% of the buyers of chinese bullion never test it. thus is it good or not? "
Thats is NOT what RWB is talking about. He implies that even if it were of the highest purity, and most reliable bullion in the world, we still should not buy it simply because it originated in a country who's government does not agree with HIS personal views. RWB, you better just stop buying ANYTHING at all if thats your stance. As others have posted, there are literally HUNDREDS of items in your own home and autos right this second that were produced by those communists!!!
Edited to add this afterthought: Furthermore, if every U.S. citizen bought as much CHINESE gold as possible, wouldnt the Chinese government be sitting on a pile of worthless paper while the citizens of this country sat on stacks upon stack of precious metal? If you disliked China as much as you say, wouldnt that be a GOOD thing?
Phil, I don't agree with you very often.. But this time I am 100% behind your statement...
Regards,
John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
forum for fakes. Someone spent quite a bit of time photographing not
only fake Pandas but fake silver bullion and other Chinese bullion coins
that have been selling on eBay. I think I'll put that up as a seperate thread.
Panda Forum
<< <i>I wouldn't touch raw Pandas with a 30 ft pole due to Chinese counterfeit issues. I wonder how many fakes there are circulating? >>
There is another thread on fake Chinese products, not just Pandas.
Well that would rule out buying U.S coins now, wouldn't it?
<< <i>"Further, it is difficult to understand why anyone posting on these boards would possibly buy gold or silver from a Communist government, and not direct their purchases toward the open and democratic nations" - RWB
Well that would rule out buying U.S coins now, wouldn't it? >>
You stole my avatar!
<< <i>
<< <i>"Further, it is difficult to understand why anyone posting on these boards would possibly buy gold or silver from a Communist government, and not direct their purchases toward the open and democratic nations" - RWB
Well that would rule out buying U.S coins now, wouldn't it? >>
You stole my avatar!
I changed it.. Ability to put in your own avatar would be great.
Thanks for the welcome, happy to be here and to discuss all precious metal modern chinese coins.
Cheers!!
<< <i>I changed it.. Ability to put in your own avatar would be great.
Thanks for the welcome, happy to be here and to discuss all precious metal modern chinese coins.
Cheers!! >>
You either just missed the window of opportunity or it will be available on Monday. Personal icon uploads is enabled one day each month on the 15th unless it falls on a weekend or holiday then it would be on the Friday or Monday of the weekend or day before or after of the holiday. Somebody will probably come along to confirm if it was enabled last Friday or not. Welcome to the forums.
Well until then, looks like Batman it is :0)