I'm going to pull the trigger on AMPEX 100 0Z..
Julio
Posts: 2,501 ✭
Engelhard or Johnson Matthey silver bar.
This is just a heads up for anyone holding silver to sell quick.
. $1,317.00 plus shipping.
Wish me luck. jws
This is just a heads up for anyone holding silver to sell quick.
. $1,317.00 plus shipping. Wish me luck. jws
0
Comments
eBay price: $1375
- live.com discount: 200
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Net price $1188 (S/H - $13.60)
Good luck, whatever you do
Of course it takes a brokerage account to do it, but the fees must be way less that doing it with physical silver.
I know it's comforting to me to know that Barclays, the owner of the ETF is insolvent. So what's not to like about investing in SLV? (a bankrupt foreign bank/brokerage). Anyone for Enron stock? And if you want to increase your risk further of not seeing your money again, be sure to go through one of the cheap internet brokers for your trades.
roadrunner
<< <i>
I know it's comforting to me to know that Barclays, the owner of the ETF is insolvent. So what's not to like about investing in SLV? (a bankrupt foreign bank/brokerage). Anyone for Enron stock? And if you want to increase your risk further of not seeing your money again, be sure to go through one of the cheap internet brokers for your trades.
roadrunner >>
LOL
This does indeed seem to be a reputable Co. with a better price. I have never done any business with them, so if anyone can give a solid recomendation...
I know Apmex is not the cheapest but they are easy and dependable and every transaction with them has been smooth as silk.
All help appreciated. jws
P.S. I want my silver in my own hands.
<< <i>If someone wants to own silver for a quick trade there is the silver ETF that trades like a stock. You can buy and sell all you want without all the problems of trading it. Not that buying bars is bad, just saying this in case anyone hasn't heard of it.
I know it's comforting to me to know that Barclays, the owner of the ETF is insolvent. So what's not to like about investing in SLV? (a bankrupt foreign bank/brokerage). Anyone for Enron stock? And if you want to increase your risk further of not seeing your money again, be sure to go through one of the cheap internet brokers for your trades.
roadrunner >>
You can believe whatever you want but Barclays is the sponser, not the owner. They also hold the silver in vaults but nevermind. I guess you think the vaults don't exist either.
<< <i>
<< <i>If someone wants to own silver for a quick trade there is the silver ETF that trades like a stock. You can buy and sell all you want without all the problems of trading it. Not that buying bars is bad, just saying this in case anyone hasn't heard of it.
I know it's comforting to me to know that Barclays, the owner of the ETF is insolvent. So what's not to like about investing in SLV? (a bankrupt foreign bank/brokerage). Anyone for Enron stock? And if you want to increase your risk further of not seeing your money again, be sure to go through one of the cheap internet brokers for your trades.
roadrunner >>
You can believe whatever you want but Barclays is the sponser, not the owner. They also hold the silver in vaults but nevermind. I guess you think the vaults don't exist either.
The vaults exist, after all, that's the very silver that SLV leases so they can print all that(about to be) worthless paper.
Sponsor, owner, they are both on the hook for massive amounts of silver they don't own.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
I've seen both the GLD and SLV list of owners, sponsers, lawyers, etc. before. It's a nice daisy chain. The sponsers are just as bankrupt as the owners. I don't get any warm fuzzies when I see a list of insolvent companies who are involved. The FED and SEC might as well have their names on the marque as well. Please refresh our memories as to who the insolvent "owner" is.
roadrunner
However if you look at a chart of the price of silver vs. the Dow and other major stock averages over the last three months the price of silver has been crushed far worse than the risky stocks most are scared of. So it is not the safe haven some seem to suggest. Sure it can't go to zero, but it can still go down from here like anything else.
Silver was hyped like internet stocks and home prices recently and crashed, and all have had the same outcome. The interesting part is I don't see how anyone who is afraid of the stock market would buy silver here when silver has traded down worse than stocks. If silver has bottomed then so probably too have stocks, anyway this is all I have to say. I mentioned in as friendly post for those interested in quick trades in silver to look into SLV is all. The world conspiracies and financial phantoms I leave to others to imagine.
PS The original post shows silver purchased at $13.17 cost per ounce or 34% over spot. NAV for SLV is 9.9, in other words it possibly trades at a discount to the price of silver. Just in case anyone is interested.
<< <i>You guys can believe anything you want it really doesn't matter, I was just mentioning this for those that are interested in trading large amounts without having to hold the silver. BTW SLV is a trust, it is not owned by any of the individuals you mentioned, but if you are uncomfortable with it that is your choice.
However if you look at a chart of the price of silver vs. the Dow and other major stock averages over the last three months the price of silver has been crushed far worse than the risky stocks most are scared of. So it is not the safe haven some seem to suggest. Sure it can't go to zero, but it can still go down from here like anything else.
Silver was hyped like internet stocks and home prices recently and crashed, and all have had the same outcome. The interesting part is I don't see how anyone who is afraid of the stock market would buy silver here when silver has traded down worse than stocks. If silver has bottomed then so probably too have stocks, anyway this is all I have to say. I mentioned in as friendly post for those interested in quick trades in silver to look into SLV is all. The world conspiracies and financial phantoms I leave to others to imagine.
PS The original post shows silver purchased at $13.17 cost per ounce or 34% over spot. NAV for SLV is 9.9, in other words it possibly trades at a discount to the price of silver. Just in case anyone is interested. >>
IF...and I do stress the word IF, the ETFs do fail due to selling more paper than what they can cover with physical metal, then the people holding these ETF "stocks" will be left holding either the physical paper, or electronic numbers. Neither of those will buy a loaf of bread in time of crisis. I cant speak for everyone here, but to me, the ENTIRE point of owning silver is to have SILVER in the event of a massive monetary meltdown. I dont buy silver on the speculation of prices moving up/down. I buy silver so that when my fiat dollars become worthless I'll actually have something that retains at least some of my wealth.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
PS If things happened like the doomsday Sayers claim, SLV would skyrocket in price, not crash.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>paper silver crashed, physical silver is fetching good money and has a good premium. >>
Paper silver and physical silver are one and the same. If I purchased enough SLV I could take physical delivery of the silver at paper prices. Thus paper silver and physical silver are, yes, one and the same.
PS I can't see any reason to purchase silver at any premium when you don't have to, but I guess I am just a voice in the wilderness. I love silver coins too so buy those and I agree they are nice to own. However as we have seen, silver has crashed and it happened during a financial crisis, I don't think that can be questioned. Silver is in surplus now, surplus means lower prices in a normal market, we are now into a normal market and silver will return to normal prices. Just my two cents on this, as always opinions are just that.
Deadhorse wanna chime in?
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i> If I purchased enough SLV I could take physical delivery of the silver at paper prices. >>
Only at the expiration of the contract, not today unless the "futures" contract of SLV you bought expires today.
If there is a surplus in Silver, why can the mint not keep up with demand? Why do none of the main metals dealers have any type of supply of silver for IMMEDIATE delivery at spot or close?
Your arguments seem based on theories and not looking to actually buy silver. Sure, you could get delivery some time in January if you buy 5000 shares of SLV. That does not prove a surplus or that you can get silver now for spot price.
Just my two cents.
<< <i>Paper silver and physical silver are one and the same. >>
Right, sure they are............
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.
Given the obvious ignorance being displayed on how the SLV works, I nominate this for "most naive post of the month".
You want physical for your SLV paper?
They will have you jumping through so many hoops that it would have been cheaper and far less hassle to have just bought the physical in the first place.
They have no intention of lettting their suckers, err, paper holders actually cash out for the physical metal.
Not to mention that you still have to pay the 28% tax on the paper as if it were the real metal.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>Neither of those will buy a loaf of bread in time of crisis. I cant speak for everyone here, but to me, the ENTIRE point of owning silver is to have SILVER in the event of a massive monetary meltdown. I dont buy silver on the speculation of prices moving up/down. I buy silver so that when my fiat dollars become worthless I'll actually have something that retains at least some of my wealth. >>
Our silver won't be "worth" squat in that scenario either. Items that will be "worth" something and can get you the items you need in trade are bullets, batteries, bottled water & salt.
<< <i>You'll be suprised how much Silver there is available if it ever reaches $15+ per oz
I doubt very much anyone will notice anymore available silver when it reaches $15 again.
Talk to me when it hits $25, you won't have too long to wait.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>
<< <i>Paper silver and physical silver are one and the same. >>
Right, sure they are............
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.
Given the obvious ignorance being displayed on how the SLV works, I nominate this for "most naive post of the month".
>>
Deadhorse since you claim to be such an expert on the SLV let's see you explain how it works. My ears are all open. BTW I never said it was an exact match to the price of silver, my reference to the NAV proves that. I said it was a way to trade the price if one wishes. So teach me all you know about the SLV and show everyone else here you know it as well. I am sure they would like to hear your explanation too.
<< <i>
<< <i>Neither of those will buy a loaf of bread in time of crisis. I cant speak for everyone here, but to me, the ENTIRE point of owning silver is to have SILVER in the event of a massive monetary meltdown. I dont buy silver on the speculation of prices moving up/down. I buy silver so that when my fiat dollars become worthless I'll actually have something that retains at least some of my wealth. >>
Our silver won't be "worth" squat in that scenario either. Items that will be "worth" something and can get you the items you need in trade are bullets, batteries, bottled water & salt. >>
Your items will be valuable in the event you survived a nuclear holocaust. Im talking crisis of the financial variety, like when foreign banks start to dump TRILLIONS of U.S. dollars because they have lost faith in the currency they have been hoarding for decades. Its been said that 90% of all the paper money ever printed by our government is held in foreign vaults. Just think about the ramifications of this if they all dump at once.
Added: Deadhorse I also was hoping you could explain what you posted earlier about SLV;
"The vaults exist, after all, that's the very silver that SLV leases so they can print all that(about to be) worthless paper.
Sponsor, owner, they are both on the hook for massive amounts of silver they don't own. "
You said SLV leases the silver, can you prove that? I can show you documents that are audited that they own the silver, it is not leased. Maybe you can explain this more.
<< <i>Hmmm, no reply from Deadhorse yet. I thought it might take some time......
Added: Deadhorse I also was hoping you could explain what you posted earlier about SLV;
"The vaults exist, after all, that's the very silver that SLV leases so they can print all that(about to be) worthless paper.
Sponsor, owner, they are both on the hook for massive amounts of silver they don't own. "
You said SLV leases the silver, can you prove that? I can show you documents that are audited that they own the silver, it is not leased. Maybe you can explain this more. >>
Your rudeness notwithstanding, I don't live on the computer nor this forum.
You can't show me any documents that SLV has ever been audited as they never have been. You can try that cursory SEC filing of two years ago which addressed nothing specific.
"Paper silver and physical silver are one and the same." ------- I believe this is your statrement from earlier, it is fairly clear to anyone who can read, you believe the two are indeed are the same, when in reality, nothing could be further from the truth. I noticed you have edited most of your earlier posts in this thread, but thankfully you left this line alone.
The current spot price which is determined in a tag team effort by COMEX futures and SLV has nothing to do with physical silver.
The warning is this, Barclay's iShares Silver exchange traded fund (AMEX:SLV) is not backed by physical silver as evidenced by poor custofial controls and other features it has in common with Street Tracks Gold Trust (NYSE:GLD). Seems to me the sole purpose of these ETFs is to trick the unsuspecting public into believeing that large staockpiles of precious metals are being accumulated, while in reality the gold and silver is actually being leased or sold into the marlet in order to depress precious metal prices and leave behind nothing but paper promises. Anyone seeking the benefits of an investment in precious metals should look elsewhewre because SLV and GLD are, at best, the equity market equivalents of futures contracts.
It is important for each SLV shareholder to understand it is not an investment in physical silver. If someone is looking to take advantage of rising silver prices, that person should only consider physical silver.
It is simple to invest in SLV to gain exposure to price movements, but SLV is not an invesment in silver itself.
Should the need arise, an investor would not be able to exchange SLV shares for bullion other than through an Authorized Participant and then only in baskets of 50,000 shares or 500,000 ounces. The associated fees and additional charges will bring the cost to well above the SLV price and is more expensive than the physical itself. Further, SLV has many loopholes available to them to prevent such a redemption, regardless of the cost to the redemptor.
The SLV is backed by trust assets consisting of silver held by the custodian on behalf of the trust, period! Full stop! This means they don't hold the metal, but indeed lease it and it is held by "custodians".
SLV and GLD are NOT silver and gold, but rather securities that trade on the AMEX and NYSE. Simple concept, but critical to understand.
SLV's can be used to help the shorts manage their ovewrwhelmingly large short position, whaile at the same time investors mistakenly believe that SLV is backed by physical silver.
The fact is that the SEC has failed to protect investors and is ultimately to blame. If only SLV was subject to the Investment Company Act of 1940, the public would be protected against things like transactions with affiliates and prohibitions leading to a suspension of silver redemptions.
There is NO WAY SLV = bullion, when they don't want it to any more. All that's needed is an eletronically filed ammendment or some other SEC sanctioned sleight of hand, and you are left with paper.
There was a change in the prospectus some months back that pointed out clauses like the fund not being liable in the event that sub contracted storage facilities.. um... were empty to put it plainly, and about not being liable if any metal was not silver because they did no assays.
SLV was designed to siphon off physical holders into paper. It was never designed to pay off in bullion so what's the big deal if it never holds anything but notional silver?
If you don't hold it, you don't own it. The paper markets will stop participating and get cashed out very early in the eventual panic price melt up.
Meanwhile they help to manage and delay that day.
Commodities are *not* stocks and bonds and treating them that way will always lead to a blowup...
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Neither of those will buy a loaf of bread in time of crisis. I cant speak for everyone here, but to me, the ENTIRE point of owning silver is to have SILVER in the event of a massive monetary meltdown. I dont buy silver on the speculation of prices moving up/down. I buy silver so that when my fiat dollars become worthless I'll actually have something that retains at least some of my wealth. >>
Our silver won't be "worth" squat in that scenario either. Items that will be "worth" something and can get you the items you need in trade are bullets, batteries, bottled water & salt. >>
Your items will be valuable in the event you survived a nuclear holocaust. Im talking crisis of the financial variety, like when foreign banks start to dump TRILLIONS of U.S. dollars because they have lost faith in the currency they have been hoarding for decades. Its been said that 90% of all the paper money ever printed by our government is held in foreign vaults. Just think about the ramifications of this if they all dump at once. >>
It won't take a nuclear slugfest. You think barter wasn't used as much, if not more, than cash & pm's for the average Joe in the U.S. during the great depression? There are many ways a society can be thrown into a barter based economy.
<< <i>You can't show me any documents that SLV has ever been audited as they never have been. You can try that cursory SEC filing of two years ago which addressed nothing specific.
"Paper silver and physical silver are one and the same." ------- I believe this is your statrement from earlier, it is fairly clear to anyone who can read, you believe the two are indeed are the same, when in reality, nothing could be further from the truth. I noticed you have edited most of your earlier posts in this thread, but thankfully you left this line alone.
The current spot price which is determined in a tag team effort by COMEX futures and SLV has nothing to do with physical silver.
The warning is this, Barclay's iShares Silver exchange traded fund (AMEX:SLV) is not backed by physical silver as evidenced by poor custofial controls and other features it has in common with Street Tracks Gold Trust (NYSE:GLD). Seems to me the sole purpose of these ETFs is to trick the unsuspecting public into believeing that large staockpiles of precious metals are being accumulated, while in reality the gold and silver is actually being leased or sold into the marlet in order to depress precious metal prices and leave behind nothing but paper promises. Anyone seeking the benefits of an investment in precious metals should look elsewhewre because SLV and GLD are, at best, the equity market equivalents of futures contracts.
It is important for each SLV shareholder to understand it is not an investment in physical silver. If someone is looking to take advantage of rising silver prices, that person should only consider physical silver.
It is simple to invest in SLV to gain exposure to price movements, but SLV is not an invesment in silver itself.
Should the need arise, an investor would not be able to exchange SLV shares for bullion other than through an Authorized Participant and then only in baskets of 50,000 shares or 500,000 ounces. The associated fees and additional charges will bring the cost to well above the SLV price and is more expensive than the physical itself. Further, SLV has many loopholes available to them to prevent such a redemption, regardless of the cost to the redemptor.
The SLV is backed by trust assets consisting of silver held by the custodian on behalf of the trust, period! Full stop! This means they don't hold the metal, but indeed lease it and it is held by "custodians".
SLV and GLD are NOT silver and gold, but rather securities that trade on the AMEX and NYSE. Simple concept, but critical to understand.
SLV's can be used to help the shorts manage their ovewrwhelmingly large short position, whaile at the same time investors mistakenly believe that SLV is backed by physical silver.
The fact is that the SEC has failed to protect investors and is ultimately to blame. If only SLV was subject to the Investment Company Act of 1940, the public would be protected against things like transactions with affiliates and prohibitions leading to a suspension of silver redemptions.
There is NO WAY SLV = bullion, when they don't want it to any more. All that's needed is an eletronically filed ammendment or some other SEC sanctioned sleight of hand, and you are left with paper.
There was a change in the prospectus some months back that pointed out clauses like the fund not being liable in the event that sub contracted storage facilities.. um... were empty to put it plainly, and about not being liable if any metal was not silver because they did no assays.
SLV was designed to siphon off physical holders into paper. It was never designed to pay off in bullion so what's the big deal if it never holds anything but notional silver?
If you don't hold it, you don't own it. The paper markets will stop participating and get cashed out very early in the eventual panic price melt up.
Meanwhile they help to manage and delay that day.
Commodities are *not* stocks and bonds and treating them that way will always lead to a blowup... >>
Deadhorse I thought this was going to be your reply. Is this the url you got some of your information from?
www.safehaven.com/article-7331.htm
Deadhorse quote;
"SLV's can be used to help the shorts manage their ovewrwhelmingly large short position, whaile at the same time investors mistakenly believe that SLV is backed by physical silver."
www.safehaven.com/article-7331.htm Quote:
"SLV's physical silver can be used to help the shorts manage their overwhelmingly large short position, while at the same time investors in SLV mistakenly believe that this ETF is backed by physical silver."
Looks close to me?
I thought you were going to tell us what you know, not what you were going to search and repeat? Anyway you asked me this so let me reply.
"You can't show me any documents that SLV has ever been audited as they never have been. You can try that cursory SEC filing of two years ago which addressed nothing specific. "
How about an audit certified on February 27, 2008?
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1330568/000119312508040253/d10k.htm
"To the Sponsor, Trustee and Shareholders of
iShares Silver Trust:
In our opinion, the financial statements listed in the accompanying index present fairly, in all material respects, the financial position of iShares Silver Trust (the “Trustâ€) at December 31, 2007 and December 31, 2006, and the related statements of income for the year ended December 31, 2007 and the period from April 21, 2006 through December 31, 2006, the statements of changes in shareholders’ equity (deficit) for the year ended December 31, 2007 and the period from April 21, 2006 through December 31, 2006 and the statements of cash flows for the year ended December 31, 2007 and the period from April 21, 2006 through December 31, 2006 in conformity with accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America.
.......
/s/ PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP
San Francisco, California
February 27, 2008 "
So they were audited on February 27, 2008, you must not know how to find SEC filings.
Anyway I think what you are missing is I said to use SLV as a trading tool, it is not meant to be an emergency stash of silver for the end of the world. The point of the trust is to hold the silver and the ETF trades around the NAV value which should be adjusted by the price of silver minus expenses daily. It is an audited ETF contrary to what you think. If it wasn't audited they would be pulled from their listing.
You also confirmed what I said earlier, you can get physical silver for your SLV shares if you purchase a basket, however that is meant to be burdensome to do as SLV is not meant to be a bullion exchange fund. And that is obvious as it is set up for low expenses and to track the price of silver as closely as possible.
You asked:
"SLV was designed to siphon off physical holders into paper. It was never designed to pay off in bullion so what's the big deal if it never holds anything but notional silver?"
The big deal is the silver is the asset backing the ishares, without the silver it would not be trading at the price it is today. NAV is set on the price of silver minus expenses
"There is NO WAY SLV = bullion, when they don't want it to any more. All that's needed is an eletronically filed ammendment or some other SEC sanctioned sleight of hand, and you are left with paper."
You will be happy to hear I agree somewhat with what you say, that there is risk in holding SLV. It is not as safe as holding physical silver, so we can agree on that. It is also not meant to replace owning silver if you want to do that. I only said if someone wants to trade silver prices try the SLV.
However I think you would also agree that owning silver is not perfectly safe as it can be stolen unfortunately. Is it better to trade $10,000 in SLV for a week or try to purchase and sell silver bullion in a week? That is why SLV exists for ease of trading.
Anyway good luck with you, this will be all I have to say on this. I hope everyone has a nice week. Cheers.
I also found the PriceWaterhouse "audit" you refer to.
It seems most agree that that was nothing but a whitewash and certainly wasn't an audit.
They fact is, they lease their metals and aren't ever responsible for anything except taking your money.
It appears to be just another arm in holding down physical prices.
I won't last forever and many will be left holding nothng but a paper promise.
It's happened before.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>Deadhorse you didn't prove anything other than you don't know. Have a nice day.
It's fairly clear that you don't have a clue, not to mention you have a fairly rude, demanding, insulting and arrogant attitude.
I'll try to avoid you in the future as facts mean lttle to you, your mind was made up beforehand.
As I have long said, SLV was the worst thing to ever happen to silver.
By all means, buy all the paper you can.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>Lord help you HalfStrike, go to the big thread a do a little research it's been talked about many time. Read Ted Butler he'll stear you clear on silver. Don't expect us to do your research your a big boy and can put your money anywhere you want. Take Deadhorse's advise or not we've been doing this for quite some years and have seen the trends and tricks involved. If you don't buy physical your a fool IMO and that's exactly why physical is selling for more than a stock cert ETF. >>
Is that "strike" or "wit"