can anyone help me out here? olympic bullion question on the weight.
fc
Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
i bought some silver bars that right on the box and certification say
40 grams each. yet i saw this picture below! It is making me think
there is something going on.. like the chinese weighed the bar
in the packaging or some nonsense. this of course, if only one troy
ounce each throws off how much i thought i paid for the silver...
any explanation anyone can dream up??? sigh.
31.3 grams is one troy ounce... 40 grams is obviously more then
one troy ounce. retail for this set was 1850 yuan, which is 270 bucks...
so it was still a great deal for what i paid.. i am just now peeved!
40 grams each. yet i saw this picture below! It is making me think
there is something going on.. like the chinese weighed the bar
in the packaging or some nonsense. this of course, if only one troy
ounce each throws off how much i thought i paid for the silver...
any explanation anyone can dream up??? sigh.
31.3 grams is one troy ounce... 40 grams is obviously more then
one troy ounce. retail for this set was 1850 yuan, which is 270 bucks...
so it was still a great deal for what i paid.. i am just now peeved!
0
Comments
I would also wonder if the bullion is the purity that is stated as well...
99.9% fineness with advanced technology....
as for the fineness.. the company who makes this stuff is the same
company that makes actual money for the country of china and etc..
this bar clearly says 50 grams on it.
and the certification sheet says that also.
<< <i>i am afraid i do not have a scale to tell you that.
as for the fineness.. the company who makes this stuff is the same
company that makes actual money for the country of china and etc.. >>
China is littered with counterfeit operations as I'm sure you're aware. Anything from there draws my suspicion.
Someone needs to weigh their pandas, perhaps those aren't even the correct weight!
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<< <i>
<< <i>i am afraid i do not have a scale to tell you that.
as for the fineness.. the company who makes this stuff is the same
company that makes actual money for the country of china and etc.. >>
China is littered with counterfeit operations as I'm sure you're aware. Anything from there draws my suspicion. >>
true. just keep in mind that this came with another piece of paper
that explained protection measures on the tag. hologram, embossed
textures, and a few others. this just makes me wonder about all
the stuff and if i am missing something on how the chinese weigh
stuff. i dunno. just tempers my enthusiam for bidding on any other
stuff!
i cannot imagine the chinese govt allowing their citizens giving
the olympics a black eye by having knock offs flooding beijing... this
was their moment to shine. probably would have chopped off some
heads ;-)
i cannot imagine the chinese govt allowing their citizens giving
the olympics a black eye by having knock offs flooding beijing... this
was their moment to shine. probably would have chopped off some
heads ;-) >>
You are kidding, right?? They faked the whole dang olympics.. And censored everything
that was broadcast.. Did you not notice how quick the age dispute was handled??
Don't fool yourself concerning a communist goverment..
i just know that creating a fake stuffed toy is very different then
counterfieting silver bars that are the equivalent of our US mint...
the range of silver/gold bars and rounds you could buy in the olmypic
stores was staggering. these items were made by very reputable
sources comparable to our US mint considering they make the notes
and coins of china.
either way you could be right.. i just think it is unlikely. i am just concerned
about how these suckers were weighed and if i can gather more info
here.
He had a large necklace that he wanted to sell. The necklace said Italy .925 sterling. It was pretty heavy too. Guy said he bought it at JC Penneys for about 180.
Standard thing is for the store to test it. Well they did and it turned out to be silver plated.......pretty crazy huh. I told the guy I would complain to JC Penneys and ask for a refund. I mean how could they be selling stuff labeled as sterling and its not. After witnessing that, I'd be scared to even get anything for some of these department stores.
I wonder if sometimes these Chinese Olympic coins, etc could be faked really well??
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on our childrens toys.. Or the most recent case of tainted baby formula..
I am not saying the goverment was behind the bogus bullion. I am just saying you have way
too much confidence in a communist goverment.. Read the news
Sometimes its not the government but some of these chinese businesses. They might want to cut corners or whatnot and use bad quality items, etc.
PS. I'm Chinese and I don't even trust Chinese made items!@!!
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<< <i>fc, offtopic but a few days ago a guy came into the local store.
He had a large necklace that he wanted to sell. The necklace said Italy .925 sterling. It was pretty heavy too. Guy said he bought it at JC Penneys for about 180.
Standard thing is for the store to test it. Well they did and it turned out to be silver plated.......pretty crazy huh. I told the guy I would complain to JC Penneys and ask for a refund. I mean how could they be selling stuff labeled as sterling and its not. After witnessing that, I'd be scared to even get anything for some of these department stores.
I wonder if sometimes these Chinese Olympic coins, etc could be faked really well?? >>
that is why i wonder about people who buy sterling from pawn stores and antique shops. you have to know what you are doing
to dabble in that realm.
but i know what you are getting at. jewelry has a long history of
fakes.
<< <i>Well let's not even mention the tainted dog food. And we better not mention the lead based paint
on our childrens toys.. Or the most recent case of tainted baby formula..
I am not saying the goverment was behind the bogus bullion. I am just saying you have way
too much confidence in a communist goverment.. Read the news >>
i do read the news. i have heard of everything you have mentioned.
i bet if i walked into your house most everything was made in asia,
from the clothing you wear to the knick knacks on the shelf. lets
not even get into electronics and the pc you are using to type on.
as for faith in govts... communist or not, that is a whole nother topic ;-)
my main issue is why do the bars appear to weigh 31 ish grams when
it states 40 grams. very odd that! I should email the manufacturer
tomorrow and ask.
I'm glad I'm sticking to precious metals and then only going after well known companies like JM, Engels,etc.
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<< <i>fc, if that guy got a fake sterling necklace from JC Penneys, I wonder how many other people who have bought jewelry at other stores even have the real thing? Maybe the 14k gold necklace might be gold plated or what not.
I'm glad I'm sticking to precious metals and then only going after well known companies like JM, Engels,etc. >>
see that is where you guys are confusing me. if you think everything
is faked... when it comes from asia.. how do we even know the easily
faked poured bars with engelhard stamped on it are real without proper testing??? ;-)
after all, chinese US coins are being faked.. why not bars?
remember bars do have a history of being faked... drilled/plugged... shaved..
cut... etc...
If not, well then me, you, and a bunch of the other guys on the PM forum who have JMs, Engels, etc may have been jipped!
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<< <i>fc well thats true but I have a little more faith in my JM or Engelhards being real.
If not, well then me, you, and a bunch of the other guys on the PM forum who have JMs, Engels, etc may have been jipped! >>
i am just taking the concept of fakes to the extreme.
it would take an awful lot of work to make a fake set of these bars..
so much effort and skill that the people behind it could easily start
a company and go legit.
normally "fakes" are done by a US company ordering 100000 units of
X and the chinese manufacturer does 160000 of X.. very cheaply
since they are setup for it... think electronics, clothing, etc... the US
company has paid for all the work and the chinese just bang off some
extra for the grey market. Cisco has this problem with their routers
and gear.
to create the dies, packaging, make it official looking by copying the
counterfiet stuff.. to the point no one can tell... takes a lot of work.
there is probably easier fruit to target.. like older US coins.. which
have a much higher markup.
Even the chinese COAs says there are 5 bars each weighing 40 grams. But then you show a pic of one that is 50 grams and another that is 31 grams. Golly thats weird. big red light right there.
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<< <i>fc, only thing that worries me about the set is the inconsistency.
Even the chinese COAs says there are 5 bars each weighing 40 grams. But then you show a pic of one that is 50 grams and another that is 31 grams. Golly thats weird. big red light right there. >>
well the picture is one i found in an auction. it said 50 grams on the
bar and 50 grams on the certificate.
it is the 5 bar silver set i have that makes me wonder.
the cert says 40 grams each, yet a picture i found on ebay shows
31.3 which is one troy ounce!
i am emailing the manufacturer. lets see what happens.
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<< <i>
<< <i>fc, offtopic but a few days ago a guy came into the local store.
He had a large necklace that he wanted to sell. The necklace said Italy .925 sterling. It was pretty heavy too. Guy said he bought it at JC Penneys for about 180.
Standard thing is for the store to test it. Well they did and it turned out to be silver plated.......pretty crazy huh. I told the guy I would complain to JC Penneys and ask for a refund. I mean how could they be selling stuff labeled as sterling and its not. After witnessing that, I'd be scared to even get anything for some of these department stores.
I wonder if sometimes these Chinese Olympic coins, etc could be faked really well?? >>
that is why i wonder about people who buy sterling from pawn stores and antique shops. you have to know what you are doing
to dabble in that realm.
but i know what you are getting at. jewelry has a long history of
fakes. >>
I guess it depends on the form of sterling. I purchased a quantity of clearly identifiable Franklin Mint sterling silver bars from a pawn shop, but I'm not interested in purchasing .925 jewelry or silverware.
I would consider doing a specific gravity test on the bullion if they were less than honest on the gram weight. That wouldn't require any damage to the bars and should confirm the purity.
<< <i>fc, is it possible for you to take it to a pawn shop, etc and weigh each bar? try that if you can. >>
i opened one bar and held it. too bad i do not have any 1 troy ounce
bars at the moment to compare. it was my imagination that it did
feel more then 1 troy ounce.. but i will take it to the coin store or
buy a scale shortly.
ticks me off because i was going to bid on a different bar this week
on ebay.. but how do i know what to bid if i cannot believe the
packaging. as in how much silver there actually is! :-|
addresses going to 4 different mints of the company in different
cities. I am hoping for the best. I will report anything I find out.
<< <i>fc, offtopic but a few days ago a guy came into the local store.
He had a large necklace that he wanted to sell. The necklace said Italy .925 sterling. It was pretty heavy too. Guy said he bought it at JC Penneys for about 180.
Standard thing is for the store to test it. Well they did and it turned out to be silver plated.......pretty crazy huh. I told the guy I would complain to JC Penneys and ask for a refund. I mean how could they be selling stuff labeled as sterling and its not. After witnessing that, I'd be scared to even get anything for some of these department stores.
I wonder if sometimes these Chinese Olympic coins, etc could be faked really well?? >>
This assumes that the man was not lying when he said he bought it at Penneys. He could have been the con man himself, giving you a plausible story to convince you to buy it as silver.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>fc, is it possible for you to take it to a pawn shop, etc and weigh each bar? try that if you can. >>
i opened one bar and held it. too bad i do not have any 1 troy ounce
bars at the moment to compare. it was my imagination that it did
feel more then 1 troy ounce.. but i will take it to the coin store or
buy a scale shortly.
ticks me off because i was going to bid on a different bar this week
on ebay.. but how do i know what to bid if i cannot believe the
packaging. as in how much silver there actually is! :-| >>
You probably can't tell the difference between one troy ounce and "almost" one troy ounce. It sounds simple to me...you got base metal bars that are silver plated. I bought some silver Pandas on eBay that I was pretty sure weren't legit (the price was just a little too low) and immediately could tell the difference from my genuine Pandas once I got them. When I weighed some of the coins, even in the capsule, they were, like 3/4 of an ounce. I'm not an expert, but I don't think it takes much to create fakes if you can get a real one. I saw some photos of a Chinese counterfeiting operation, and they don't need huge machines with large up-front costs to get it going.
Sorry about that, though.
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What did you do?
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>fc, is it possible for you to take it to a pawn shop, etc and weigh each bar? try that if you can. >>
i opened one bar and held it. too bad i do not have any 1 troy ounce
bars at the moment to compare. it was my imagination that it did
feel more then 1 troy ounce.. but i will take it to the coin store or
buy a scale shortly.
ticks me off because i was going to bid on a different bar this week
on ebay.. but how do i know what to bid if i cannot believe the
packaging. as in how much silver there actually is! :-| >>
You probably can't tell the difference between one troy ounce and "almost" one troy ounce. It sounds simple to me...you got base metal bars that are silver plated. I bought some silver Pandas on eBay that I was pretty sure weren't legit (the price was just a little too low) and immediately could tell the difference from my genuine Pandas once I got them. When I weighed some of the coins, even in the capsule, they were, like 3/4 of an ounce. I'm not an expert, but I don't think it takes much to create fakes if you can get a real one. I saw some photos of a Chinese counterfeiting operation, and they don't need huge machines with large up-front costs to get it going.
Sorry about that, though. >>
why does everyone think they are fake? lol. just because you got burned
back in the day does not mean i did.
a person on ebay has a set of these. they put one on a scale. it
weighs 31.3 grams which is one troy ounce. the box says something
different.... it is now time to investigate why... not make wildish
claims without even reading the whole thread.
i also saw those photos... and if you do not consider making a die
a real skill... i dont know what to say. also having a press like in
those pics is not exactly common for most people eh?
then to make the plastic containers.
then to make the box.
then to fake the cert.
then to fake the retail outside price tag with counterfiet measures.
then to ....
seriously. it is much different then banging off a simple round gold coin with no design on the bar in different colors.. and etc...
then to place in a generic flip to send to your cousin FU MANCHU in
NYC.
sigh.
i should have known i would get speculation. i appreciate those who
have ideas on how to weigh it without paying for a scale.
i used pennies last night... wheat pennies... 10 total to try to compare... but it did not work out.
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but the chinese authorities were really cracking down hard. markets
had to hide the crap. watches, shirts, necklaces, etc... same old same
old...
another article. same fake stuff mentioned.
alas, i might as well buy a postage scale or what not from walmart...
where it was made in china... ;-) must be a fake knowing my luck.
<< <i>as expected, the usual crap is faked when it comes to the olympics
but the chinese authorities were really cracking down hard. markets
had to hide the crap. watches, shirts, necklaces, etc... same old same
old...
another article. same fake stuff mentioned. >>
To the world they are cracking down... Behind the scenes they will be collecting revenue.....
If you've ever been to some of these countries you will be surprised at how many things they fake, etc. For example, you can get full copies of the LATEST just released in the theater yesterday movie in Asia a few days before it was even released. The markets are full of brand name shirts for only a few bucks were in the US it would be 60+. Defnitely faked and they look like the real thing.
Lets just see what your Olympic bars come back weight wise.
Oh yeah like cinman said, they may be saying "we will crackdown,etc" but they might be getting bribes, etc.
I'm sure the police know which stores sell counterfeits, heck some of the officers off duty might be buying shirts from them!
There is a reason why way up on the top I said "Tricky Chinese!"
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i will report back any facts.
the dirt cheapest available from wally world.
I put the same exact bar that I showed in the picture in the first
post and it comes up as 28 grams.
I weighed it with the hard shell plastic container and it says 42 grams. I weighed it with the soft plastic shell that goes over the
hard shell container and it came up as 45 grams.
A magnet test results in the magnet not sticking to the bar at all.
Not even a bit. I was sorta expecting it to after all this.
Things are getting more and more likely something is not quite kosher
in this purchase.
I emailed the person I bought it on ebay asking where they got it
from. Did they goto China, did they buy it on ebay, etc...
So far the response back has been:
"> Hi Matt I bought this from a dealer in China thats all I know"
I emailed them back asking how much they paid and where did they
buy it. An official store or some flea market/mall setup where fakes
are rampant.
I guess the last thing I can do is to take it to a coin store that has
a silver testing kit or I can buy one. It would be nice to know the
actual metal content of this set. I am trying to think of what metals
are out there that will not stick to a magnet.. like copper inside
with silver plating.. that would not stick right?
thanks for any tips you guys/gals can offer in this mystery.
does not agree with the actual weight. I also think they do not
sound like silver when giving one a slight bounce off table. You
know, the lightest of taps where you can here the silver sound.
I will probably not approach the seller for a return based on their
convictions. An auction is an auction. Buyer beware! I needed a good
lesson probably. I was due! I will take the bars to my favorite B&M
dealer and see what he can find out in hand. I may also carve into
one at a corner to see if I see copper underneath. I am not worried
about the collectible value.. I am worried if they are 99.9 silver ;-)
------------
HI, No I don't believe there fake. I've had a few of these set and have paid exuberant amounts for shipping. For
most of these set from china they charge 10 times the shipping to make there money. Watch out for the ones that
the starting bid is very low cause the shipping fee is usually very high.And they do come with a certifacate of
authenticity. The ones with free shipping I guess You just have to hope You acually receive it. But no I don't
think they're counterfeit. I'm an honest ebayer, if I thought they were fake I would not sell them as 99.9 fine
silver and I probably let You think they were 40 grams each also , But they're only 1 troy ounce each (x 5).
Thanks for Your interest.
- ralphcc917
What did the other 4 weigh? Can you weigh those?
the local store can do an acid test for you on the bars to see if they are real.
I don't know anything about the magnet test so can't help you there.
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<< <i>fc, thanks for the update.
What did the other 4 weigh? Can you weigh those?
the local store can do an acid test for you on the bars to see if they are real.
I don't know anything about the magnet test so can't help you there. >>
well since they are sealed in plastic i did not wish to open them
all. they all weighed plus or minus a gram from the other one when
all packaging is included. so they seem consistent from that stand
point.
part of me just wants to take one and break it in half to solve
the mystery of what is in the chewy center! ;-)
Be careful, and not just with sellers located in China, or Chinese items.
<< <i>I was hoping to buy a set of these Olympic silver bars to give as a present. However, it seems that there is a high chance that any being sold on Ebay are fakes, including those offered by American sellers. How many unsuspecting buyers are going to get stuck? Sigh.
Be careful, and not just with sellers located in China, or Chinese items. >>
well i will let you know if they are fake or not. I am sure the local
coin dealer will know better then I in just a few minutes of him
having them in hand. there is still a chance they are silver...
it has not been totally ruled out.
I took the bars to my favorite Brick & Mortar coin dealer.
We opened a few of the bars and I allowed him to examine them.
He did an acid test on one bar and they contain abolutely no
silver what so ever on the outside. You do this by giving
the bar a gentle rub on a flat stone type material. This removes
a tiny bit of metal that you drip an acid on.
Next another bar had a tiny slice put into it on the corner edge
and it quickly revealed a copper center.
So our best guess is copper on the inside with a nickel plating..
or some other shiny non-magnetic metal on the outside.
One thing he was sure of, is that there is no silver in this set.
Of course we talked about China and how their economy is based on
counterfeiting and the govt's lack of cracking down on it. I should
have known better to trust anything made in that country.
To summarize, I am 100% positive the bars contain no silver so I
feel that the ebay auction was mispresented and I am curious what
you think and feel you can do for me.
matt
---------
from a rip to being ripped off ;-)
ah life. one big gamble.
at least i got to talk shop with my favorite coin dealer for an hour
today. he is a very interesting guy. no silver for sale of course.
<< <i>I was hoping to buy a set of these Olympic silver bars to give as a present. However, it seems that there is a high chance that any being sold on Ebay are fakes, including those offered by American sellers. How many unsuspecting buyers are going to get stuck? Sigh.
Be careful, and not just with sellers located in China, or Chinese items. >>
That could be the reason why there is no American "Official" Distributor for these bars.
<< <i>If a "Troy Ounce" Bar weights 28 grams it's a good good chance it's fake >>
...................or your scale needs to be recalibrated.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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<< <i>fc, that really stinks. Sorry to hear about that. >>
well i am curious if the original seller on ebay will say anything
about a return. i am not very hopeful. it is basically a novelty set.
20-25 dollars value in my mind. not a complete loss.
i will probably sell it on ebay if i cannot return it but properly labeled
as containing no silver. just a olympic item.
I would not sell it... If you paid with paypal open a dispute.. Give the seller one chance to make it right.
If you linked your CC to your paypal payment have them dispute the charge as well...
As much as I razed you before, this sucks... Ebay will side with you on this I am sure...
If not your CC company will.
<< <i>FC
I would not sell it... If you paid with paypal open a dispute.. Give the seller one chance to make it right.
If you linked your CC to your paypal payment have them dispute the charge as well...
As much as I razed you before, this sucks... Ebay will side with you on this I am sure...
If not your CC company will. >>
i paid with paypal. yes indeed.
interesting to note when i paid with my CC i forgot i had like 40
dollars in my paypal account. it seems my CC was only charged so
much. i wonder if that will make a difference.
but i am also of the type that i think i should not require paypal or
ebay to work something out between two adults.
i am a firm believer that in an auction you bid, you win, you keep.
it is a form of learning that auctions are normally one way.
i emailed the seller and i posted the email above. lets see what he
says.
lines. You shouldn't have to go that far.
But with full disclosure on your auction, you will likely get no bids. Or at the least a lowball bid.
I would wait and see, the same as you. But I would start a dispute as soon as I could. If the seller cooperates
you can end the dispute just as quick. The seller could be thinking he is the one getting scammed as well. And may
respond accordingly.
Good luck. And keep us posted.... If he doesn't cooperate. Let us know the seller so we can avoid him..
<< <i>IMO you didn't recieve what you paid for. That is grounds for a dispute. My thinking is along the same
lines. You shouldn't have to go that far.
But with full disclosure on your auction, you will likely get no bids. Or at the least a lowball bid.
I would wait and see, the same as you. But I would start a dispute as soon as I could. If the seller cooperates
you can end the dispute just as quick. The seller could be thinking he is the one getting scammed as well. And may
respond accordingly.
Good luck. And keep us posted.... If he doesn't cooperate. Let us know the seller so we can avoid him.. >>
Well this seller more then likely was scammed himself when he bought
the set. I believe him when he said he thought it was silver. Heck,
so did I when i did not open them. Once opened though and held
in hand, my scam alert went off.
As for reselling on ebay properly labeled for what it is.. that will be
after discussing this with the seller. I feel if he said no return I would
probably just let it go. Imagine my time is worth more then 60 dollars
and spending a few hours is not worth it to me when I could be
doing something else I enjoy. Plus the negative vibes of the whole
thing is best left behind. I consider it a lesson and a valuable one
at that!
But I will consider all my options and keep posting to this thread
with the results.