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Sold PSA graded card on EBAY - Buyers claims trimmed/switched - HELP!?!?!

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  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092
    That's fine, a lot of people on the boards overreact to situations like this, but after he tries to steal from you you're willing to let it slide is what I have a problem with. You know he's going to do this to other people and it seems like as long as you get your money then all is right with the world. I would try and make this guy realize he can't go through life stealing from people, but I guess that's just me.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    Bobby:

    Prison is the correct punishment for the SCUM.


    The just punishment would be to cut-off his hands.

    Or, if I was in charge, his head would go missing.

    There are law-abiders and there are law-breakers.
    Law-breakers need to be crushed and destroyed.

    Letting thieves off the hook is UNFAIR to the rest
    of society (EBAY sellers).

    I would, at least, file a mail-fraud complaint at the
    USPS and his local cop-station.

    IF the SCUM insured the package, I hope he has
    the guts to file a fake insurance claim.



    /////////////////////////////////////////////

    At EBAY and PayPal, We Are Not Happy Until You Are Not Happy !




    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,144 ✭✭✭
    I will do that Storm.....I will talk to the postal clerk about filing Mail Fraud charges against him.....
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This dirtbag deserves to be imprisoned. I also would pursue whatever means necessary against him. This guy is a cancer and a scum and should be held accountable for his actions. Ebay ought to also permanently suspend his account. Have you asked them to do that?


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    Tonight, google spiders will crawl this thread.

    In a day, any google search for EBAY seller dwiedle will tell the story of a crime.

    This thread will stay on page ONE of the google results for a LONG TIME.


    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,144 ✭✭✭
    No I havent, but I will call tomorrow and see what I can do..I am a gold power seller, and they gave me a toll free number to call, so hopefully I will get someone who can help instead of one of the cue card readers I have gotten before on the chat....
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would definitely call ebay and advise them what happened. At the very least, he needs to be permanently suspended so he cannot use that ID at least to do this to any other seller.

    Great decision on your part to open the package at the PO. Do you have a PO box? Or did you bring the package with you. I'm wondering if you'd be able to bring an unopened package with you to the PO in a case like this to have them as a witness? Did the clerk find your request to be present when you opened the package unusual?


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,144 ✭✭✭
    I had a PO Box...no, the Clerk didnt find my request unusual, but I do go to this post office EVERY SINGLE day during my lunch hour.......so I am a well known customer.......
  • Anyone that would commit a crime involving a Lenny Wilkins card deserves to have happen to them what happens to embezzlers in China.
    Nolan Ryan & Edgar Martinez are my favorite players...
    image
    mosaic's Nolan Ryan Basic Topps registry set
    mosaic's Big 3 Nolan Ryan Run Showcase
  • This whole system illustrates perfectly why Ebay's safeguards are useless.

    1) This buyer had a huge number of positive feedbacks....which turned out to mean absolutely nothing in terms of whether you could trust him. So much for the usefullness of the feedback system.

    2) Even if Ebay NARU's him, he will be able to open a new account without any problems at all by registering with a slightly different name and/or address.

    That the seller would have been screwed if someone here had not suggested to him to open the reutrn package in front of a witness tells you all you need to know about how messed up Ebay is for sellers right now...
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The part im having trouble getting past in this thread is why every time someone gets a good deal on one of his cards, he says they are stealing from him.

    1) I told him to return BOTH cards (including the Robertson rookie he stole from me)........

    2) thats why I want both cards back...he basically stole one card and overpaid for the other....

    3) While I am impressed with some of the prices some of my cards get, there are others that bidders definitely steal from me....
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,144 ✭✭✭
    LMAO!! Sorry Nick....however the thread isn't about the prices my cards get...the thread is about warning other sellers about this particular buyer and the scams that some of the buyers pull to get free PSA graded cards on Ebay.....
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,144 ✭✭✭
    PS Nick....what you are telling me is like saying you are focusing on the mole on Jeffrey Dahmers nose....never mind the fact the he killed little boys, raped them and stuffed their heads in the fridge.....the damn mole on his nose really bothers you...he should see a dermatologist! (kinda extreme, but hey...it's early in the morning and Im not quite awake yet......just got a laugh about Nicks comments)......
  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭
    have you contacted the douchebag about what he did yet? Interesting to see if he responds at all
  • gameusedhoopgameusedhoop Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Whoever suggested that was a very smart person >>



    Thank you, I'll take the deserved credit for the idea. I don't know what it was, but I saw something like this coming, like Larry Bird, I was a step or two ahead of everyone else this time.

    It was really a no lose situation, a federal employee, on the job, as a free, unbiased witness. No wonder it didn't take Paypal long to reverse their decision. Glad that it worked out well so far, hopefully scam boy is holed up under his covers this morning afraid to go to the door not quite sure who will be standing there if the doorbell rings. +1 for the good guys this time!
  • The problem is with getting the USPS employee involved is they don't have to. Many would not have done anything on the matter and the DC would still show delivered in other words the seller would be screwed.

    I do hope Paypal locked his account for this obvious scam attempt.

    It is doubtful Ebay will do anything to him. It is just as doubtful the USPS will do anything either. I was told once it takes about 5000 dollars before they even raise an eyebrow. Calling his local police will most likely end with them saying its a civil matter in that case you really have nothing as you have the money and he has the cards so no damages.
  • I have a question- Why not just accept returns, graded or raw?

    It's good for your customers and I tend to think they bid higher because they feel safe and can return the item no questions asked if they do not like it. I have done this for 2 years and been very happy, I have had 5 returns out of 500 sales and 3 of those returned to buy more down the road. I never understood the no returns on graded cards. I also think taking graded cards back is supper easy vs raw cards were a lot more can happen. I refund for both. Paypal almost always sides with the buyer unless fraud like this so why not? Yea its a little more work but as we see here going the paypal route is a much bigger pain so no real reason here.

    Will this stop people from trying to scam you, no but they will try regardless of your return policy so you are really only hunting the good customers who might buy from you down the road.

    Bottom line to me it gets down to just good business!
  • MorgothMorgoth Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭
    He cracked the cards out of the holders, I wouldn't take a return if someone cracked em out.
    Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set


  • << <i>I have a question- Why not just accept returns, graded or raw?

    It's good for your customers and I tend to think they bid higher because they feel safe and can return the item no questions asked if they do not like it. I have done this for 2 years and been very happy, I have had 5 returns out of 500 sales and 3 of those returned to buy more down the road. I never understood the no returns on graded cards. I also think taking graded cards back is supper easy vs raw cards were a lot more can happen. I refund for both. Paypal almost always sides with the buyer unless fraud like this so why not? Yea its a little more work but as we see here going the paypal route is a much bigger pain so no real reason here.

    Will this stop people from trying to scam you, no but they will try regardless of your return policy so you are really only hunting the good customers who might buy from you down the road.

    Bottom line to me it gets down to just good business! >>



    He had no choice but to take the return due to Paypal.

    In this case the buyer cracked the cards out and sent the empty PSA holders and no cards.
  • gameusedhoopgameusedhoop Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The problem is with getting the USPS employee involved is they don't have to. Many would not have done anything on the matter and the DC would still show delivered in other words the seller would be screwed >>



    Not true, any Postmaster who values their job, and I would venture to say that most do, would be required to at least listen if you told them that you suspect that you could be a victim of mail fraud. Especially for a good customer who uses their service everyday and is well known around the PO. The smaller the office the better. I use a 3 person office, no routes go out of it, no extra hands around to cuff items. The Postmaster has offered to internally trace stuff for me anytime I need it etc. I know that I am lucky to have them, and I even drive by 2 different offices to get there, and there are 3 in the other direction that are closer, but I appreciate the quality service.
  • earlycalguyearlycalguy Posts: 1,247 ✭✭

    He had no choice but to take the return due to Paypal.

    In this case the buyer cracked the cards out and sent the empty PSA holders and no cards. >>



    I believe seller gave in and did not challenge the item not received as described claim the buyer made. if so paypal did not make him take the return...seller accepted return on his own. with the buyer getting exactly what he purchased I would have challenged the paypal claim.

    in regards to returning graded cards....buyer gets card hoping to get a .5 bump. takes card to show psa is at and does not get the bump, sends the card back to the seller for refund. buyer may over pay for a card, find another one cheaper and then sends the first one back....lots of reason to not take returns on graded cards.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "....lots of reason to not take returns on graded cards."

    /////////////////////////////////////////

    image






    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • 9 times out of 10 when a SNAD is filed with Paypal they immediatly tell the buyer to send the item back at their own cost there is no review process or anything. At least thats the way it worked when I had to file one last year

    There is no oppurtunity for the seller to have a say. In this case he managed to get the right people in place and had the proof. Had the USPS employee not cooperated most likely the seller would be out the cards and the money.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭


    << <i>9 times out of 10 when a SNAD is filed with Paypal they immediatly tell the buyer to send the item back at their own cost there is no review process or anything. At least thats the way it worked when I had to file one last year

    There is no oppurtunity for the seller to have a say. In this case he managed to get the right people in place and had the proof. Had the USPS employee not cooperated most likely the seller would be out the cards and the money. >>



    /////////////////////////////////////////


    PayPal is now vigorously denying that SNADs are "auto-approved" for buyers.
    The facts do not support PP's denials.

    BUT, the appeals process does work for sellers, IF they are willing to spend
    the time to fight back. Most folks simply cannot afford to spend the time to do that.

    ALL packages of value that are returned by unknown EBAY buyers should ALWAYS
    be opened in the presence of a postal employee. This has saved MANY sellers from
    having their money stolen by PP and given to criminals.

    .......................

    Sometime in 2009, EBAY will implement a mandatory "refund policy" for ALL sellers.
    Some of the smaller niche sites already mandate "no questions asked returns."
    (IF we look at the sales-categories in which such a policy simply will not work, we
    can make good predictions about what EBAY's seller-base will look like in 2009.)

    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    I knew the guy was going to send back a cracked slab.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Basically this guy cracked the card out of the slab, thought it was short and then demanded a refund?


    Is that basically it?


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    In a related story:

    This is what EBAY does to small good-sellers, while allowing SCAMSTERS to terrorize those sellers.

    Check the suspended seller's FB, and ask yourself, "Who Is Next?"


    Another Suspended PSer



    The guy was actually one of the better little sellers in his category.
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,144 ✭✭✭
    Latest and greatest.......The buyer left me a postive feedback on the Roberstson, and a NEGATIVE on the Wilkens...claims he returned the cards and I wouldnt give him his money back.....this lowlife sure has some nerve...I sure hope all sellers have blocked him by now......I was on the phone with Ebay, but dont have a good vibe talking with them.......this a prime example of what is so wrong with ebay's new feedback system..... He dinged me on both cards for my DSR stars.....1's across the board...... I guess I got the negative because I didnt let him have the cards AND the money! Silly me...
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    The way I see it is this guy cracks the cards out of the cases for raw sets.

    He claims he sent both cases back but kept 1 card. He claims he sent back the 1 card with the 2 cases.

    (From the feedback)

    If true, then he is out the dough and the card?


    This is getting really confusing.

    Too bad he did not come here and tell his side of the story.

    Maybe he can't. Or won't


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,144 ✭✭✭
    Don't be confused.....he wanted to return one card...He filed a SNAD dispute. I escalated it to a claim and told him to return BOTH cards! He elected to return two cracked cases sending them via Signature Confirmation in an attempt to keep both cards and get his money back. PayPal sided with me and I got the money. He then left the negative because he somehow feels cheated (when really, I was the one who could have been out alot of dough, were it not for the advice of gameusedhoop)....
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,144 ✭✭✭
    I got the mail fraud form from the Post Office today...I have a question though....is it technically mail fraud, because I DID receive money, and the bidder DID get two PSA graded cards from me?? Or would this be ATTEMPTED mail fraud and is that still punishable??
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It could very well be true that the buyer sent back one card because, as Lee pointed out earlier, the seller was very willing to let it all slide after the package was received. If the buyer is telling the truth, then the seller now has payment for BOTH cards, AND one of those cards back in his possession. Being paid in full, and getting a very sale-able card back on top of that, is a scenario that would make most sellers ease off of the aggressive course of action they had been pursuing.

    The truth is that we will never know the real story, so I will just avoid the seller and the buyer with regard to eBay.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I got the mail fraud form from the Post Office today...I have a question though....is it technically mail fraud, because I DID receive money, and the bidder DID get two PSA graded cards from me?? Or would this be ATTEMPTED mail fraud and is that still punishable?? >>




    //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    Very common question.

    The act of "mail fraud" is committed notwithstanding the success or failure
    of any scheme designed to fraudulently obtain money/property through the
    use or contemplated use of the U.S. Mail.

    The mere request that a person send money to a fraudster via the mail is
    "mail fraud," regardless of whether or not the person sends the money, and
    whether or not the fraudster receives the money.

    If a crook mails an invoice requesting payment with the intent to defraud,
    an act of "mail fraud" has been perpetrated, EVEN if the intended victim
    never pays the invoice.

    An EBAY seller who asks buyers to mail payments, but never has any intention
    of sending merchandise is guilty of "mail fraud," by the mere announcement
    in his listing that "payments should be mailed to me."

    ..........

    If the buyer sent the OP two empty slabs, in hopes that PayPal would issue
    the buyer a refund, the buyer committed "mail fraud."

    The scheme does NOT have to succeed. It only has to rely on the mail
    to allow it to succeed.

    ..............



    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,144 ✭✭✭
    The buyer DID NOT...and I repeat DID NOT send back one card.....I started this thread to try to help warn other sellers about possible scammers....and you sir Nam812....apparently just like to stir up the pot.....I honestly don't care if you EVER buy anything from me....I am a proven Power Seller on Ebay with over 5,000 feedbacks....if you buy nothing from me, there are 49,999,999 other people who will.......now go away!
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,144 ✭✭✭
    Thank you for your insight Storm!!! I will go ahead and fill out the form then....the MAJORITY of the people who have responded to this thread have been loads of help (save one individual)....
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I dont know you, so what you think of me and my opinions couldn't matter less to me. Your own greed got you into this mess, sorry if you don't like hearing the truth.

    "Wowee, $92.91 for THAT card? SCORE. Huh? What? Thats the one he wants to return? Darn it, no will give me $92 again for that card. Well then I want the other one back too cause you "stole" it so cheap."

    He was not happy with the card he "slightly overpaid for" (your words), and wanted to return it. It seems like this angered you (because you thought you scored in getting a higher than expected price) and made you get spiteful and ask for both cards back.

    Here's the bottom line. I dont care what his reason was, you had a buyer that was not happy, and you did not make him whole.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "Here's the bottom line. I dont care what his reason was, you had a buyer that was not happy, and you did not make him whole."

    ///////////////////////////////////////////

    BUT, how come the buyer sent back TWO empty slabs?

    IF the buyer didn't like one of the cards, why would he bust
    it out and then think he could return it?

    As I understand it, the buyer claims he sent back two busted slabs
    and one raw card. That does not make sense to me.

    If the USPS guy saw the two empty slabs, the buyer's story
    cannot be correct.

    (Even if the OP got back one raw card, he still got skrewd.)
    It make more sense that the OP got back NO cards, and the
    buyer hoped the SC would fly at PayPal.

    ........

    Go deep into the FB of the buyer/seller. One party looks cleaner than the other, to me.
    That doesn't mean I'm right, but I think I am.




    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>(Even if the OP got back one raw card, he still got skrewd.) >>



    How so? He still has payment in full for both cards (since paypal sided with him), and he can sell the one raw card AGAIN.
  • dizzledizzle Posts: 1,051 ✭✭
    Looking at the buyers feedback it's pretty easy to see this ain't his first time pulling this.. I seen numerous negs with accuations of the "bait and switch"
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If the USPS guy saw the two empty slabs, the buyer's story cannot be correct. >>



    If we are taking the OP's accounts of the post office interaction as factual.

    The OP clearly has a dislike for bidders who win auctions at a decidedly lower price than anticipated.
  • MorgothMorgoth Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭
    Card could of been switched and it is out of the holder, could be damaged, OP will have to get it regraded at his expense again.

    I agree with him asking for both if the buyer paid for both at the same time using 1 paypal transaction. It would be very difficult from a paypal sense to split these transactions up when going through their process.
    Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
  • MorgothMorgoth Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭
    Bottom line no one should take any returns on graded cards if they have been cracked out of their holders, they are now damaged goods.
    Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
  • mtcardsmtcards Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭
    The buyer did not send back a card

    But if he did, the card was cracked out of the slab. Maybe even damaged which might have happened and the reason why.
    IT IS ALWAYS CHEAPER TO NOT SELL ON EBAY
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭


    History Of Switcheroooo



    Twice as many NEGs rcd as the OP.

    50% more NEGs left than OP.

    (Has fewer transactions than the OP.)

    A bad actor.

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


    The OP ain't perfect.
    His TOS are poor.
    He is not professional in his replies to customers' complaints.
    (He also sells in some VERY difficult categories.........As does dwiedel. They both lack tact.)

    BUT, I suspect Judge Judy would find the instant dispute in favor of the OP.


    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Bottom line no one should take any returns on graded cards if they have been cracked out of their holders, they are now damaged goods. >>



    I agree one million percent. No one can say with any accuracy (except the buyer himself) when exactly the card was cracked out, but if it was still in the holder when he first asked for the refund, it should have been granted.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    When multiple folks - all strangers - claim somebody has played games with the "return process,"
    there is an excellent chance that some of them are telling the truth.

    IF some of the previous sellers who got "return packages" in the mail from the buyer
    had filed complaints with the USPS, there is a chance he would have been shut down
    long ago.


    ......................

    Also, buyers complained he sold "reprints as real."


    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,144 ✭✭✭
    I think my TOS are actually pretty good. I state in my auctions everything upfront...there is nothing "hidden"
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092
    $5 for shipping one card first class is insane. Not accepting returns on graded cards (pretty much everything you sell) is a bad policy. As a seller you should offer refunds to any unhappy buyer. Just because you state your poor policies upfront doesn't mean they're not poor policies. I agree with storm.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭

    Don't be confused.....he wanted to return one card...He filed a SNAD dispute. I escalated it to a claim and told him to return BOTH cards!



    Why does he have to return both cards, not just the one he was unhappy with?


    That is what I have a problem with. If thsi was me I'd have told him to make sure

    the card he is sending back remains IN THE SLAB.


    Steve





    Good for you.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    WOW!! Anyone look at this guys feedback? (The buyer) 89 negs and neuts. Mostly for parts but it does
    tell a story!


    I have to side with the seller here, I just disagree with him making the buyer send back both, Paypal allows for partial
    refunds now so I don't see that as a problem.


    Steve
    Good for you.
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