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Sold PSA graded card on EBAY - Buyers claims trimmed/switched - HELP!?!?!

As the headline states, I had a 1961 Fleer BB set card that a bidder won. (PSA 9 (OC)) - The winning bidder claims the card is trimmed, or had been switched and wants me to make good on it.....what should I do?
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Comments

  • gameusedhoopgameusedhoop Posts: 3,535 ✭✭✭
    Tough call, if he paid with PP then you should probably just refund him upon receipt of the card back. Make sure you open it in front of a postal employee in case he tries to send you back a pack of 90 Topps. If he paid with PP you will lose a SNAD complaint anyway.

    If he paid with check or MO, then tell him to shove it. You had a decent scan, the holder is cracked or open, he knew exactly what he was buying. Either way you are probably going to get negged. Tell him to send his complaint to PSA with the card for review. He is just looking for a post sale discount, or some freebies. Either way, he is now on my blocked bidder list.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    I told him to return BOTH cards.. (he also won a Oscar Robertson rookie from me for a cheap price)........I have never had anybody claim a graded card was bad....I always thought raw cards gave people problems!
  • lawnmowermanlawnmowerman Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I told him to return BOTH cards.. (he also won a Oscar Robertson rookie from me for a cheap price)........ >>



    I think that's asking for more problems and liable to make the buyer more upset resulting in a possible neg.

    Just get the card he is unhappy with back and give him a refund.

  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    I hear you lawnmower man....it just pisses me off! That's why I pay PSA all that money to grade my cards......I have heard of raw cards giving someone problems with being fakes and all, but I have NEVER heard of someone complaining about a graded card! I even had a scan of the card and everything!
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Did he get the card in the scan? If so I can't see what he is crying about.

    Did he claim the slab was compromised?



    Steve
    Good for you.
  • lawnmowermanlawnmowerman Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, on the downside, you can't make everyone happy. Especially if their an idiot to begin with

    Good luck!
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Looking at his feedbacks the guy buys OC cards galore.

    Perhaps he gets the card in hand and then sees if he can get them
    striaght graded? your 9OC to a 7?

    Even that is a stretch seeing you provided a great scan.

    I dunno but he does buy many problem cards that is for sure.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    He bought two cards from me...an Oscar Robertson Rookie and the Len Wilkins rookie....he said the Oscar rookie fits snugly into the holder, and the Len Wilkens rookie has that little gap of space at the top, so SURELY that must be a trimmed card! I am telling him PSA is not in the business of grading trimmed cards - it's not trimmed, it looks the same as every other card in my set- yada yada yada........I told him to compare it to my Wilt Chamberlain IN ACTION card I have up now....that little gap is there......he is saying PSA must have missed it, or I switched the card out somehow, yet left the holder intact....
  • elsnortoelsnorto Posts: 2,013


    << <i>If he paid with check or MO, then tell him to shove it. >>



    Which is exactly why I don't bid on items that do not accept Paypal... I believe many sellers not only do not accept Paypal due to the fees, but also so the buyer has no recourse if the transaction goes bad. However, much like eBay's recent feedback policy change, the way Paypal handles disputes leaves the seller without much recourse. It would be nice if eBay could find some middle ground in both regards.



    << <i>Either way, he is now on my blocked bidder list. >>



    I agree. The slab, at least as pictured in the listing, has not been tampered with and if the card was trimmed, that is on PSA. Usually when a seller states "no returns/refunds" it is a red flag for me with the notable exception of graded cards where I am fine with that as long as a scan is provided and the card arrives as pictured.

    All that said, I would issue a full refund upon safe return of the card in dispute, add this user to your blocked list, and relist the item personally.

    Snorto~
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Sigh, cards from the 50's and 60's are not all sized the same. Some can be short, wide etc.

    If the case is intact and he is whining simply because the card 'rattles'

    Not all cards fit inside the case snug.


    I'm lazy and don't want to look but did you have a return policy?


    I would refund it I guess. sans the shipping


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • The card looks very "short"

    Not saying it's trimmed or anything of the sort but I can see where the guy may have some concern if he is not all that experienced with 1961 fleers.


    They vary in size quite a bit, I have some they are way long and a few that are a tad short, Just the way these cards are..

    Tell him to send it back refund him and move one.. Good luck!


    PS.. The 61 I got from you last week looks great image
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    No...the policy said No Return on graded cards......I understand I might have to make an exception, but I am thinking to myself...DAMN! That would be like me spending $15,000 on a 1952 Mantle rookie.. PSA 6.....having buyer's remorse, and telling the seller.....this card is trimmed.....something about it don't look right.......I know it's PSA graded, and they are supposed to be the best, but they just missed this one.......refund please!
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    Dizzle!!! You didnt let me know! Which card did you win from me??? By the way.....round two 1/2 of the set break is on........be sure to check the tops of them....the Lovellette and the Wilt Chamberlain both appear short!! SURELY they must be trimmed (even though PSA graded them both according with the OC qualifier)......PSA must have missed the boat on those....
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    If you have a policy that states NO RETURNS on graded cards you can stick to it.

    You had a great scan IMO, the slab was not compromised, you are well within
    your rights to blow him off.

    Let him do the leg work (file with paypal etc if you want)

    Steve
    Good for you.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    I thought the whole set was great....so far it netted me two 9's, yet the third 9 seems to be having a problem......PSA says MINIMUM SIZE REQD...........I dont know why they think I have all this free time to trim cards!!! Don't they realize there is no time to trim when I am busy filling out their long invoice and cracking out their slabs!
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Bobby

    Not sure if you are being facisitious <sp> but do you really think they missed those 3 cards?

    Or are you just kidding?


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Min size requirement means the card was not trimmed but cut short from the factory,
    if they felt a card was trimmed they say:

    Evid of trimming.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • If he paid with Paypal your no return policy means nothing. All he has to do is file a SNAD claim and will have to ship BOTH cards back if they were paid at the same time. I would be wanting both cards back as well if they were paid for together. Partial Refunds are one of the biggest scams out there right now.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    He just filed a PayPal dispute on me....I have no idea what to do now....
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    He just filed the dispute! He claims item misrepresnted, but they are GRADED cards!!!!?????
  • Only thing you can do is wait for him to return them..
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    How does Paypal work around the graded card aspect of this?


    and yes make sure he returns both if he paid for both at one time.

    if he sends only one card make him sweat more.

    Stop emailing with him and only reply thru paypal.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    How does a person lose a SNAD complaint with a great scan and card is graded from top TPG?

    Steve
    Good for you.
  • You lose because Paypal rarely looks at the whole picture they see the claim tell the buyer to return it with proof of delivery and thats it. They do not get involved in it in any other way.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Yeah that is what I figured.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • elsnortoelsnorto Posts: 2,013
    What is eBay's famous position?

    "We are only a venue."

    I never cared for that stance, but there are a lot of gray areas that exist in a market such as ours and it would be nearly impossible for eBay to become proficient enough in all of them to make informed decisions.

    True, many seem pretty clear, but certainly not all and it is a slippery slope.

    Snorto~
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    I just got off the phone with paypal...he made a dispute..I esculated it to a claim...He is only disputing the Len Wilkins card (the one he slightly overpaid for)....I told him to return BOTH cards (including the Robertson rookie he stole from me)........I hope I can get them both back...I never in a million years thought I would have this kind of problem with a PSA graded card! I recommend future sellers block him....
  • Musky1011Musky1011 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭✭
    I always put in the auction

    NO RETURNS ON SLABBED GRADED ITEMS
    Pilgrim Clock and Gift Shop.. Expert clock repair since 1844

    Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA

    http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    That's what I have in my auctions.....alot of good it does me, eh?
  • Musky1011Musky1011 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭✭
    Just neg him and be done with him
    Pilgrim Clock and Gift Shop.. Expert clock repair since 1844

    Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA

    http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set


  • << <i>Just neg him and be done with him >>



    He cannot neg him. It does not matter what you put in your listings if Paypal is involved. If you accept it you accept their policies
  • Musky1011Musky1011 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭✭
    Fricken Nazi's
    Pilgrim Clock and Gift Shop.. Expert clock repair since 1844

    Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA

    http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    Yea..and EBay has it now where sellers cant Neg buyers, because ALL BUYERS ARE GOOD! There is no such thing as a bad buyer anymore (This guy technically isn't a bad buyer.....just wanted his money back for a PSA graded card that was OBVIOUSLY trimmed and shouldn't have been graded in the first place!) (note the sarcasm here...)
  • This is why i am so hesitant about buying and selling on Ebay . I would love to do it but
    it seems like there are too many headaches involved.
    A collector of all things Braves
    Always looking for Chipper Jones cards.
    Im a very focused collector of cards from 1909 - 2012...LOL
  • Remember with Ebay you only hear about the bad transactions not the hundreds of thousands that take place daily that are good.

    The OP here might get the cards back and relist them and get more money for it.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    Yes..Leiascards is right....before this one 100% of my transactions went right.....I once BOUGHT a raw card on Ebay that wound up being a fake, but the seller promptly refunded no questions asked...this is my first time ever having a problem with a graded card. I Never in a million years would have thought it would have been NOT AS DESCRIBED though......never ever,.......I mean...thats the whole reason behind the grading in the first place...
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092
    Anybody who doesn't have a blanket return policy is asking for problems like this. I understand that the guy is unreasonable, but what is your reasoning for demanding that he send both cards back? He's only unhappy with the one, so that's what he should be able to return as an unhappy buyer. Just take the card back, return the money, recoup your ebay fees and relist.

    As for 61 Fleer, dizzle is right on. Some cards are cut so tall that they don't fit into the PSA slab, and some are cut very short. Tragically, it's very difficult to tell whether a 61 Fleer has been trimmed. His complaint should be with PSA, but you should offer returns on all items as a seller.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,480 ✭✭✭✭✭
    With the policy in place, all sellers MUST accept returns for any item, graded or not. Stating otherwise is akin to saying "not responsible for items purchased without insurance."


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • The way Paypal is set up if they were paid for at the same time Paypal could very easily give the buyer a refund for BOTH cards in a SNAD claim.

    Sellers should NEVER give partial refunds, there have been cases where a seller gave a partial refund and then the buyer claimed not recieved and Paypal refunded them again even whe the seller used the refund payment option. Don't know how true the claims are, but I did recieve an INR complaint once because I forgot to include one item of 6 the buyer won. Paypal was going to refund them for the full purchase. Me and the buyer settled it outside of Paypal and he closed the dispute but it could have easily been one of those issues.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    Im with you.....Honestly, he is being unreasonable...thats why I want both cards back...he basically stole one card and overpaid for the other, and is wanting to return the one he overpaid for....you can say one card is cut short all you want....bottom line, is the card WAS NOT trimmed...it received a grade of PSA 9 (OC), and I included a scan of the front AND the back of the card!!! (Most sellers dont even scan the back anymore, but I do!)......so....call me crazy, but if he wants to be a jerk, I can too! (And Im not really...in case you wanted to buy any of my cards)....
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Anyone else notice this buyer buys only OC cards?


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    He claims he breaks them out and puts them in his set, but the Wilkens wont go in there because its trimmed and worthless....
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    When I get these back would anyone here be willing to pay what he paid for them? The Wilkens 9 (OC) was $92, and the Robertson 9 (OC) was $226.??
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Bobby you had three bidders willing to pay 80+ for that card. The underbidder was at 91 and the 3rd place guy at 80 something.

    Perhaps you can contact one of them?

    Make sure he didn't crack your slab.........


    What bothers me about this buyer is the scan showed that the card had a space at the top.


    steve

    Good for you.
  • If he has cracked them out then I would be calling Paypal as soon as you get the cards back as he is probaly trying a switch on you.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    I will look...thank you...it will be hard to switch the Wilkens as I just look for the perfect card with heavy top centering....the robertston I guess I will keep the scan up and compare if/when he returns them.......I will state, this is the FIRST time I had a person try this stunt with a PSA graded card. Me personally, one time I bought a 1963 Mantle PSA 8 for around $850....the seller never scanned the back....when I got the card, the back was severely off centered. I just assumed the graders knew what they were doing, and a back that OC was acceptable and I resold the card on Ebay for a small profit. In my case though, I scanned both front and back.....he just compared the two cards he won from me side by side, and assumed since one filled the holder better than the other, that the smaller card HAD to be trimmed, and PSA missed it.....
  • You also have to face the possibility PSA did drop the ball on the card, they have done it on occassion. Many cards do not fit in the hold right, maybe he is just extra cautious or maybe he sees an obvious sign of trimming.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    I dont think PSA dropped the ball on this one....I held a small handful of these cards side by side....they were all the same size roughly.......within 1 mm of each other....bear in mind, these are vintage cards, and back then they were not all exactly the same size. I just think something fishy is going on....I hope I get back the same thing I sent him.....I think the trimming thing is way overblown...I have never trimmed any cards personally.....PSA may miss some grades and minimum size requiremtns once in a while, but for the most part they are ok.....what bothers me most about that guy, is he had scans, and ENLARGED scans...I hide nothing...I even told him to look at my current auctions....some of those cards have the gaps too.....he is like..."those are trimmed too"......give me a break.......if I am going to argue every PSA graded card, then what is the point in having them grade the cards in the first place if their grades don't mean squat?!?!?!?!
  • earlycalguyearlycalguy Posts: 1,247 ✭✭
    have you already lost the paypal battle? I don't see how'd you lose....card was delivered as described in your listing. buyer got exactly what they won.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    I gave in and told him if he sent the cards back I would refund, even though my auction states no return on professionally graded cards (SGC, PSA, BVG - not PRO, GEM or any of those rip-off companies)....the paypal woman thought that would be best.....he could have technically filed a chargeback with a credit card company for NOT AS DESCRIBED, got the keep the cards and got his money back.....that is a situation I dont wish upon ANY seller of graded cards...
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