What we need here is a devil's advocate. Nobody has expressed any sympathy for the government of that day yet. Between the great depression and the election of FDR, people of wealth were running scared and hoarded gold (their right in the old days). This reached the point where the Federal Reserve Banks could not issue any more Federal Reserve Notes since at that time they required a 40% gold backing.
This is why emergency Federal Reserve Bank Notes were issued backed by commercial paper. (This emergency is beginning to sound all too familiar.)
I can see why the government was forced to pull gold back from the people.
<< <i>private hoarding of gold and silver by subjects of the United States poses a grave threat to the peace
Rather it's the opposite considering that the framers required silver coin and gold to be the original money of the 13 colonies. They knew that fiat money was the true threat to peace.
roadrunner >>
Not only to peace but to the very Independence they fought for.
<< <i>My mother's parents were from Germany and believed in the old European savings bank of under the mattress. As a result they didn't lose their savings or suffer during the depression. >>
My Grandmother who emigrated from Poland was the same and she did it with Silver Dollars ( well she also bought land in New Jersey)
My paternal grandmother immigrated from Latvia and she didn't trust the Government, either. She hid $75 in U.S. gold coinage and didn't tell my father about it until decades later. Dad took me to the vault when I was 17 to look at the gold pieces. They were all common dates. 2 $20 Liberty Double Eagles, 2 $10 Indian Head Eagle, and 3 IH Half Eagles. They're still in Dad's safety deposit box. I consider them to be family heirlooms; I'm not going to sell them.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
In reviewing Treasury Agent reports on so-called gold hoarding in the 30s and 40s, what is striking is that nearly 50% of all cases involved someone with a personal “axe to grind.” People reported their relatives or neighbors as “gold hoarders” to get back at them for some perceived injustice or personal slight. Quite a few of these accusations were false, others led to less than $100 in coin. Some ended with a local ANA member telling the agent that the coins were of collector value, and nothing happening. Except for jewelers, dentists, refiners and others with gold use licenses, there’s little indication of overt action by Treasury.
I always wondered how the principal of ex post facto was ignored in implementing this executive order. "Hoards" that were accumulated prior to the order should have been exempt. Why no grandfathering in this case? Never mind the issue of the executive branch acting in a legislative manner. Of course we have since the executive branch act this way and amazingly not be challenged.
When this thread was started a year ago I thought the premise of this thread was absurd, but now I'm not so sure with the clowns currently running our country.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Gold and silver were circulating currency back in the 1930's but not today. Most today don't even consider them money but merely commodities. Gold is the farthest thing from J6P's mind. The amount of gold (money) in circulation back then was significant. Today no PM's circulate as money. So in order to start boosting the paper money supply, the gold needed to be rounded up. Such is not the case today. No one hoarding gold or silver today is having any effect on the nation's money supply or the amount of credit/debt that can be issued. The total gold supposedly owned by the US is 8100 tons which is approx worth $250 BILL. That's a meaningless drop in the bucket today compared to our national liabilities of >$100 TRILL. We gave the banks 3X that amount just to go out and play with.
Oreville, you may yet again see govt eyes prying into safe deposit box contents. It was not sheer coincidence that Patriot Act 2 expanded the IRS commonly "accepted" definition of collectible gold from 15% over bullion to 100% > bullion/intrinsic contect. So whereas things like MS64 Saints and MS63 $20 Libs could have been called collectible, they now fall under the govt's PA2 guidance as bullionesque.....and one step closer to confiscation regardless of how remote. Does anyone really think this new bullion definition was employed to catch money launderers/drug dealers rather than someday to be used to snare ordinary "subjects." Why wouldn't money scrubbers buy things that are worth 3X intrinsic value (MS65 gold, BU Morgan dollar bags. etc.) and then sell those later for cash and avoid the entire reporting process?
Seems funny that jewelers were explicitly targeted, yet the agents just happened to miss the 10 1933's in Izzy Switt's SDB. Maybe the lawyers in the Langbord case should go check IRS records to see if that box WAS searched back then! Hmmmm!!!
Strange that that 1933 order says NOTHING about bars of gold-pressed latinum............
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Its only safe its in your hands. The United States is bankrupt. No other way to describe it. The "Patriot Act" gives the Pres pretty much authority to do whatever the heck he wants. Its sad but true. This country is going down the tubes.
<<The total gold supposedly owned by the US is 8100 tons which is approx worth $250 BILL. That's a meaningless drop in the bucket today compared to our national liabilities of >$100 TRILL. We gave the banks 3X that amount just to go out and play with. >>
This may become precisely the problem. Foreign nations will refuse to accept any more dollars and demand gold. Then the USA government will be searching the whole country for every scrap of gold including what the citizens own.
Gold and silver were circulating currency back in the 1930's but not today. Most today don't even consider them money but merely commodities. Gold is the farthest thing from J6P's mind. The amount of gold (money) in circulation back then was significant. Today no PM's circulate as money. So in order to start boosting the paper money supply, the gold needed to be rounded up. Such is not the case today. No one hoarding gold or silver today is having any effect on the nation's money supply or the amount of credit/debt that can be issued. The total gold supposedly owned by the US is 8100 tons which is approx worth $250 BILL. That's a meaningless drop in the bucket today compared to our national liabilities of >$100 TRILL. We gave the banks 3X that amount just to go out and play with.
Oreville, you may yet again see govt eyes prying into safe deposit box contents. It was not sheer coincidence that Patriot Act 2 expanded the IRS commonly "accepted" definition of collectible gold from 15% over bullion to 100% > bullion/intrinsic contect. So whereas things like MS64 Saints and MS63 $20 Libs could have been called collectible, they now fall under the govt's PA2 guidance as bullionesque.....and one step closer to confiscation regardless of how remote. Does anyone really think this new bullion definition was employed to catch money launderers/drug dealers rather than someday to be used to snare ordinary "subjects." Why wouldn't money scrubbers buy things that are worth 3X intrinsic value (MS65 gold, BU Morgan dollar bags. etc.) and then sell those later for cash and avoid the entire reporting process?
As a percentage of GDP in the first 6 months of the Obama Admin. it has upticked. But consider that the Obama Admin. inherited a monstrous mess from the previous Admin. Notice that during Dem. Admins. of the past that the Debt as a %-age of GDP has declined during Dem terms and risin', even significantly during Rep. terms of office! Except during WWII where it was necessary to borrow greatly to defend democracy and fight the Nazi axis!!
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>In reviewing Treasury Agent reports on so-called gold hoarding in the 30s and 40s, what is striking is that nearly 50% of all cases involved someone with a personal “axe to grind.?People reported their relatives or neighbors as “gold hoarders?to get back at them for some perceived injustice or personal slight. Quite a few of these accusations were false, others led to less than $100 in coin. Some ended with a local ANA member telling the agent that the coins were of collector value, and nothing happening. Except for jewelers, dentists, refiners and others with gold use licenses, there’s little indication of overt action by Treasury. >>
Very interesting, RWB. What do you mean by "little indication of overt action by the Treasury? Do you mean that there wasn't much gold confiscated?
<< <i>In reviewing Treasury Agent reports on so-called gold hoarding in the 30s and 40s, what is striking is that nearly 50% of all cases involved someone with a personal “axe to grind.?People reported their relatives or neighbors as “gold hoarders?to get back at them for some perceived injustice or personal slight. Quite a few of these accusations were false, others led to less than $100 in coin. Some ended with a local ANA member telling the agent that the coins were of collector value, and nothing happening. Except for jewelers, dentists, refiners and others with gold use licenses, there’s little indication of overt action by Treasury. >>
Very interesting, RWB. What do you mean by "little indication of overt action by the Treasury? Do you mean that there wasn't much gold confiscated? >>
I think he means that compliance was mostly voluntary.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"<<Very interesting, RWB. What do you mean by "little indication of overt action by the Treasury? Do you mean that there wasn't much gold confiscated? >>
"I think he means that compliance was mostly voluntary."
Yep. Most of the hoarders were on lists compiled by the Hoover administration, or were foreign nationals based in the US hoping to make a quick profit. The only individuals actively investigated were those who brought attention to themselves, or were "turned in" as noted in the previous posts.
I was listening to Kim Kommando yesterday, and in general any given individual has around 1500 bits of information that can be discovered about them, simply by searching online.
If they want you, they can pretty much make any case they want. If you light up their criteria for a gold or silver hoarder, there's no reason that they couldn't demand and require an "accounting" of the disposition of your holdings.
If it ever comes to confiscation and if they are agressive about it, it's no different than a house robbery or a break-in. The net result is the same.
That gets us down to the Constitution, on a personal level.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>I was listening to Kim Kommando yesterday, and in general any given individual has around 1500 bits of information that can be discovered about them, simply by searching online.
If they want you, they can pretty much make any case they want. If you light up their criteria for a gold or silver hoarder, there's no reason that they couldn't demand and require an "accounting" of the disposition of your holdings.
If it ever comes to confiscation and if they are agressive about it, it's no different than a house robbery or a break-in. The net result is the same.
That gets us down to the Constitution, on a personal level. >>
This would be the end of the US as we know it and will open up an entire new set of issues
PEACE! This is the first day of the rest of your life.
If lead by a chain of unusual and extraordinary events, if governments (plural) in tandem, decided to stabilize the various fiat currencies with some sort of gold "certificate" or "exchange" (not Gold Standard), then they could "fix" a goverment price at some amount (say $5000 or $10000 per/oz) to instantaneously monetize debt outstanding (in effect devalue our dollar).
By merely quoting the new price for government exchange, free markets would follow, and the flow of gold would start to be turned in - voluntarily - for the huge sums of devalued dollars.......
The grab will come voluntarily from the public in this circumstance, no need to confiscate anything.................................
What would I be paying for a gallon of milk, or a gallon of gasoline at $10,000/oz. gold? You would have to answer those questions first, before I could tell you whether or not I'd sell any gold for $10,000/oz.
It's all relative, and don't forget it.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Would you turn in your gold for $10k per oz?
What would I be paying for a gallon of milk, or a gallon of gasoline at $10,000/oz. gold? You would have to answer those questions first, before I could tell you whether or not I'd sell any gold for $10,000/oz.
It's all relative, and don't forget it. >>
Why you'd be paying $2.95 for 91 Octane and $2.65 for 87 octane. Milks would be, what, $3.98 a gallon and gold will magically jump to $10,000 per troy ounce!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Monetizing the debt with a gold exchange is not very far fetched, we had such a system in place before being discontinued in 1971.
Consumer prices would not automatically follow gold prices sky high......why? because you have not traditionally devalued the dollar and "added zeros" to anything and everything, but you have "backdoored" the devaluation similar to 1933/34.
The holders of PM's would beneift immediately and turn their profits into consumer goods or real property, payoff debt at old levels, but this group of soon to be rich PM holders is hardly large/big enough to move other prices skyhigh.....
I think people need to worry far more about their 401K contributions than gold or silver in a safety deposit box. If government revenue does not rebound soon, I can see the government mandating that 20-30 percent of 401K contribs go into gov't bonds.
<<I think people need to worry far more about their 401K contributions than gold or silver in a safety deposit box. If government revenue does not rebound soon, I can see the government mandating that 20-30 percent of 401K contribs go into gov't bonds. >>
Argentina has already nationlized equivalents of 401k's.
Why you'd be paying $2.95 for 91 Octane and $2.65 for 87 octane. Milks would be, what, $3.98 a gallon and gold will magically jump to $10,000 per troy ounce!
At those price levels, I'd be tempted to sell an ounce or two. Say, how much would a new car (after Kash for Klunkers rebate) cost during that same time frame? Maybe I could buy several new cars and stash them.
And how's real estate doing under that scenario? I could see buying a few acres up in Iowa or Southern Minnesota if the price was right.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I just came across an interesting article in Wickipedia on Executive Order 6102 by President Roosevelt on April 5, 1933 regarding gold coins and gold certificates based on the authorizing law of March 9, 1933.
It says that the order was over ruled by the courts. Actions of this nature required the signature of the Secretary of the Treasury, not the President. A similiar but somewhat different subsequent order was issued by the Secretary of the Treasury.
Here is part of the Emergency Banking Relief Act of March 9, 1933. It clearly states who is to make the call.
Sec. 3. Section 11 of the Federal Reserve Act is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:
''(n) Whenever in the judgment of the Secretary of the Treasury such action is necessary to protect the currency system of the United States, the Secretary of the Treasury, in his discretion, may require any or all individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations to pay and deliver to the Treasurer of the United States any or all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned by such individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations. Upon receipt of such gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates, the Secretary of the Treasury shall pay therefor an equivalent amount of any other form of coin or currency coined or issued under the laws of the United States. The Secretary of the Treasury shall pay all costs of the transportation of such gold bullion, gold certificates, coin, or currency, including the cost of insurance, protection, and such other incidental costs as may be reasonably necessary. Any individual, partnership, association, or corporation failing to comply with any requirement of the Secretary of the Treasury made under this subsection shall be subject to a penalty equal to twice the value of the gold or gold certificates in respect of which such failure occurred, and such penalty may be collected by the Secretary of the Treasury by suit or otherwise.''
Comments
Between the great depression and the election of FDR, people of wealth were running scared and hoarded gold (their right in the old days). This reached the point where the Federal Reserve Banks could not issue any more Federal Reserve Notes since at that time they required a 40% gold backing.
This is why emergency Federal Reserve Bank Notes were issued backed by commercial paper. (This emergency is beginning to sound all too familiar.)
I can see why the government was forced to pull gold back from the people.
edited to correct spelling.
<< <i>private hoarding of gold and silver by subjects of the United States poses a grave threat to the peace
Rather it's the opposite considering that the framers required silver coin and gold to be the original money of the 13 colonies. They knew that fiat money was the true threat to peace.
roadrunner >>
Not only to peace but to the very Independence they fought for.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>My mother's parents were from Germany and believed in the old European savings bank of under the mattress. As a result they didn't lose their savings or suffer during the depression. >>
My Grandmother who emigrated from Poland was the same and she did it with Silver Dollars
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
<< <i>Yep. If you ever bought a coin from the mint or eBay, *they* have your address.
Yeah but they have no idea if you sold it or gave it away either!
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
Perhaps this comprehensive thread on gold in 1933-1934 might be of interest to the new folk among us.
"Hoards" that were accumulated prior to the order should have been exempt. Why no grandfathering in this case? Never mind the issue of the executive branch acting in a legislative manner.
Of course we have since the executive branch act this way and amazingly not be challenged.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Gold and silver were circulating currency back in the 1930's but not today. Most today don't even consider them money but merely commodities. Gold is the farthest thing from J6P's mind. The amount of gold (money) in circulation back then was significant. Today no PM's circulate as money. So in order to start boosting the paper money supply, the gold needed to be rounded up. Such is not the case today. No one hoarding gold or silver today is having any effect on the nation's money supply or the amount of credit/debt that can be issued. The total gold supposedly owned by the US is 8100 tons which is approx worth $250 BILL. That's a meaningless drop in the bucket today compared to our national liabilities of >$100 TRILL. We gave the banks 3X that amount just to go out and play with.
Oreville, you may yet again see govt eyes prying into safe deposit box contents. It was not sheer coincidence that Patriot Act 2 expanded the IRS commonly "accepted" definition of collectible gold from 15% over bullion to 100% > bullion/intrinsic contect. So whereas things like MS64 Saints and MS63 $20 Libs could have been called collectible, they now fall under the govt's PA2 guidance as bullionesque.....and one step closer to confiscation regardless of how remote. Does anyone really think this new bullion definition was employed to catch money launderers/drug dealers rather than someday to be used to snare ordinary "subjects." Why wouldn't money scrubbers buy things that are worth 3X intrinsic value (MS65 gold, BU Morgan dollar bags. etc.) and then sell those later for cash and avoid the entire reporting process?
roadrunner
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
$20 Saint Gaudens Registry Set
Thanks for posting it.
Ray
So when Big Brother seales them all so they can redistribute the wealth/contents I want a lot of little one so they
can add to mine.
Thanks in advance to all the big boxes.
This may become precisely the problem. Foreign nations will refuse to accept any more dollars and demand gold. Then the USA government will be searching the whole country for every scrap of gold including what the citizens own.
<< <i>How's that 'change' working out for everyone??
Considering how B.O.'s popularity in the polls is dropping, not so good.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>Many key differences between then and now.
Gold and silver were circulating currency back in the 1930's but not today. Most today don't even consider them money but merely commodities. Gold is the farthest thing from J6P's mind. The amount of gold (money) in circulation back then was significant. Today no PM's circulate as money. So in order to start boosting the paper money supply, the gold needed to be rounded up. Such is not the case today. No one hoarding gold or silver today is having any effect on the nation's money supply or the amount of credit/debt that can be issued. The total gold supposedly owned by the US is 8100 tons which is approx worth $250 BILL. That's a meaningless drop in the bucket today compared to our national liabilities of >$100 TRILL. We gave the banks 3X that amount just to go out and play with.
Oreville, you may yet again see govt eyes prying into safe deposit box contents. It was not sheer coincidence that Patriot Act 2 expanded the IRS commonly "accepted" definition of collectible gold from 15% over bullion to 100% > bullion/intrinsic contect. So whereas things like MS64 Saints and MS63 $20 Libs could have been called collectible, they now fall under the govt's PA2 guidance as bullionesque.....and one step closer to confiscation regardless of how remote. Does anyone really think this new bullion definition was employed to catch money launderers/drug dealers rather than someday to be used to snare ordinary "subjects." Why wouldn't money scrubbers buy things that are worth 3X intrinsic value (MS65 gold, BU Morgan dollar bags. etc.) and then sell those later for cash and avoid the entire reporting process?
roadrunner >>
Unfortunately all right on.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>That's scary.
What is surprising to me, is that it included silver. I thought the law was only for gold.... !!
Don't think it can happen again? Keep physical possession! >>
they say history has a habit of repeating itself.
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
Good luck explaining that here, RWB.
gold, then it would seem that the government will have to confiscate the
gold outstanding ,at the Government dictated rate, before it can be re valued..
How high could it be raised to.............take your best guess.If the Government
has 250 billion in gold and confiscated another 100 billion at the set value, then
raises the value to 10,000 per ounce that would raise reserves to 3.5 trillion
dollars. It still doesn't seem enough, but it will reduce the actual value
of all debt and Government financial commitments. Of course, that would make
silver worth about 1450 dollars an ounce. How much silver can the Government
scarf up............perhaps a billion ounces. That gives us another 1.5 billion for a
total reserve of 5 trillion dollars. Why in no time at all you could be talking about
serious money.
Camelot
<< <i>In reviewing Treasury Agent reports on so-called gold hoarding in the 30s and 40s, what is striking is that nearly 50% of all cases involved someone with a personal “axe to grind.?People reported their relatives or neighbors as “gold hoarders?to get back at them for some perceived injustice or personal slight. Quite a few of these accusations were false, others led to less than $100 in coin. Some ended with a local ANA member telling the agent that the coins were of collector value, and nothing happening. Except for jewelers, dentists, refiners and others with gold use licenses, there’s little indication of overt action by Treasury. >>
Very interesting, RWB. What do you mean by "little indication of overt action by the Treasury? Do you mean that there wasn't much gold confiscated?
<< <i>
<< <i>In reviewing Treasury Agent reports on so-called gold hoarding in the 30s and 40s, what is striking is that nearly 50% of all cases involved someone with a personal “axe to grind.?People reported their relatives or neighbors as “gold hoarders?to get back at them for some perceived injustice or personal slight. Quite a few of these accusations were false, others led to less than $100 in coin. Some ended with a local ANA member telling the agent that the coins were of collector value, and nothing happening. Except for jewelers, dentists, refiners and others with gold use licenses, there’s little indication of overt action by Treasury. >>
Very interesting, RWB. What do you mean by "little indication of overt action by the Treasury? Do you mean that there wasn't much gold confiscated? >>
I think he means that compliance was mostly voluntary.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"I think he means that compliance was mostly voluntary."
Yep. Most of the hoarders were on lists compiled by the Hoover administration, or were foreign nationals based in the US hoping to make a quick profit. The only individuals actively investigated were those who brought attention to themselves, or were "turned in" as noted in the previous posts.
If they want you, they can pretty much make any case they want. If you light up their criteria for a gold or silver hoarder, there's no reason that they couldn't demand and require an "accounting" of the disposition of your holdings.
If it ever comes to confiscation and if they are agressive about it, it's no different than a house robbery or a break-in. The net result is the same.
That gets us down to the Constitution, on a personal level.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I was listening to Kim Kommando yesterday, and in general any given individual has around 1500 bits of information that can be discovered about them, simply by searching online.
If they want you, they can pretty much make any case they want. If you light up their criteria for a gold or silver hoarder, there's no reason that they couldn't demand and require an "accounting" of the disposition of your holdings.
If it ever comes to confiscation and if they are agressive about it, it's no different than a house robbery or a break-in. The net result is the same.
That gets us down to the Constitution, on a personal level. >>
This would be the end of the US as we know it and will open up an entire new set of issues
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
If lead by a chain of unusual and extraordinary events, if governments (plural) in tandem, decided to stabilize the various fiat currencies with some sort of gold "certificate" or "exchange" (not Gold Standard), then they could "fix" a goverment price at some amount (say $5000 or $10000 per/oz) to instantaneously monetize debt outstanding (in effect devalue our dollar).
By merely quoting the new price for government exchange, free markets would follow, and the flow of gold would start to be turned in - voluntarily - for the huge sums of devalued dollars.......
The grab will come voluntarily from the public in this circumstance, no need to confiscate anything.................................
Would you turn in your gold for $10k per oz?
What would I be paying for a gallon of milk, or a gallon of gasoline at $10,000/oz. gold? You would have to answer those questions first, before I could tell you whether or not I'd sell any gold for $10,000/oz.
It's all relative, and don't forget it.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Would you turn in your gold for $10k per oz?
What would I be paying for a gallon of milk, or a gallon of gasoline at $10,000/oz. gold? You would have to answer those questions first, before I could tell you whether or not I'd sell any gold for $10,000/oz.
It's all relative, and don't forget it. >>
Why you'd be paying $2.95 for 91 Octane and $2.65 for 87 octane. Milks would be, what, $3.98 a gallon and gold will magically jump to $10,000 per troy ounce!
The name is LEE!
Monetizing the debt with a gold exchange is not very far fetched, we had such a system in place before being discontinued in 1971.
Consumer prices would not automatically follow gold prices sky high......why? because you have not traditionally devalued the dollar and "added zeros" to anything and everything, but you have "backdoored" the devaluation similar to 1933/34.
The holders of PM's would beneift immediately and turn their profits into consumer goods or real property, payoff debt at old levels, but this group of soon to be rich PM holders is hardly large/big enough to move other prices skyhigh.....
Why, the mercury in the fish , alone, is enough
to support the dollar. Why, there is enough mercury
in a tuna fish , that you can use the fish as a
thermometer.
Camelot
Argentina has already nationlized equivalents of 401k's.
At those price levels, I'd be tempted to sell an ounce or two. Say, how much would a new car (after Kash for Klunkers rebate) cost during that same time frame? Maybe I could buy several new cars and stash them.
And how's real estate doing under that scenario? I could see buying a few acres up in Iowa or Southern Minnesota if the price was right.
I knew it would happen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
It says that the order was over ruled by the courts. Actions of this nature required the signature of the Secretary of the Treasury, not the President. A similiar but somewhat different subsequent order was issued by the Secretary of the Treasury.
Sec. 3. Section 11 of the Federal Reserve Act is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:
''(n) Whenever in the judgment of the Secretary of the Treasury such action is necessary to protect the currency system of the United States, the Secretary of the Treasury, in his discretion, may require any or all individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations to pay and deliver to the Treasurer of the United States any or all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned by such individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations. Upon receipt of such gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates, the Secretary of the Treasury shall pay therefor an equivalent amount of any other form of coin or currency coined or issued under the laws of the United States. The Secretary of the Treasury shall pay all costs of the transportation of such gold bullion, gold certificates, coin, or currency, including the cost of insurance, protection, and such other incidental costs as may be reasonably necessary. Any individual, partnership, association, or corporation failing to comply with any requirement of the Secretary of the Treasury made under this subsection shall be subject to a penalty equal to twice the value of the gold or gold certificates in respect of which such failure occurred, and such penalty may be collected by the Secretary of the Treasury by suit or otherwise.''
<< <i>This would be the end of the US as we know it and will open up an entire new set of issues >>
That happened this past January.....
<< <i>
<< <i>This would be the end of the US as we know it and will open up an entire new set of issues >>
That happened this past January.....
Constitution? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKEN CONSTITUTION!