A question on "Ethics"

gecko109

Below is a hypothetical of what might happen in the hobby. After reading the scenario, please give your input/perspective of what transpired.

A guy searching ebay comes across a coin he is interested in. The coin was just listed an hour ago at an auction starting price of $9.99, but from a seller with zero feedback and brand new to ebay. The guy notices a 1-800 number in the listing, so calls the number to verify the legitimacy of the seller. Upon talking to the seller, the guy discovers that the seller is a legit company in business for 40 years, but new to the ebay scene. The guy then asks the seller if he had a "price in mind" on one particular coin in the seller's listings. The seller says he has several more such coins and could sell them at $200 apiece. Krause lists the coin at $150, but the guy (buyer) knows that Krause is WELL behind on this coin, and recent examples on ebay have sold for $1,000 and more. So the guy says he wants 2 coins at that price, and sends the money. The transaction is completed flawlessly.


So, what are your thoughts on this scenario? Did the buyer break a code of ethics?

MPLunatic

no this seems perfectly fine to me, it is the sellers responsibility to stay informed on the prices of items they are selling, if the seller is willing to sell at that price than there is no problem

kranky

Seems fine to me.

Barndog

I have no issues with either party

GoldenEyeNumismatics

Totally acceptable. I don't think anyone could find fault with a mutually agreed upon and understood deal. The dealer gave his price and the buyer accepted.

Placid

Well it is a little different than the coin dealer offering the widow $200 for a coin worth $1,000.

Seeing as the number called was a company I think in this case it was ok and I doubt the seller took a loss as no one would stay in business 40 years selling things for less than they paid. The seller just got less profit than they could have.

UtahCoin

<< <i>The dealer gave his price and the buyer accepted. >>



Sounds like a contract to me.

Do the ethics of the situation change if the large faceless corporation is replaced with an old widow who offers same?

AUandAG

Where's the pics????? Ok by me and for Utah, no the scenerio does not change as long
as the old lady is quoting pricing that is current. Knowledge does not have to be complete
and sometimes buyers are taking a real risk that the recent sale(s) wern't anomolies.
Bidding wars can drive up prices just to fall back to normal or Krause prices, asap.
bob

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>The dealer gave his price and the buyer accepted. >>



Sounds like a contract to me.

Do the ethics of the situation change if the large faceless corporation is replaced with an old widow who offers same? >>



Do you mean is it unethical to go around eBay cuz the guy made contact thru them?

RYK

No problem.

That was too easy.

gecko109

I guess my only concern is that if the situation was reversed, lets say a guy walked into a B&M with an AU $3 gold piece and asked the owner for melt, and the owner tried to hide his smile as he handed the guy the money, alot of people might say the dealer was being very unethical.

19Lyds

No different than cherry picking a Talon Head morgan from a dealers junk silver pile.

Russ

I agree with RYK. Too easy. Pure black and white. Dealer in the business 40 years is fair game.

Russ, NCNE

Nysoto

The only formal ethics guidelines I am aware of are the PNG and ANA dealer code of ethics, which I don't believe have any legal foundations. There is a section about dealers paying fair prices for coins (we all know dealers follow these), but there is nothing about a customer ripping a dealer. Seems like a double standard, but it assumes the customer may not have current pricing knowledge and could get ripped off, and conversely a dealer should have pricing knowledge.

PTVETTER

If both parties are happy then that is the end of story, nothing more should be said!!

gecko109

Again, the scenario is a hypothetical (maybe), but if it DID actually happen, this might be the coin in question:

Steve27

Did either party say "done deal?"

ilikebuffaloes

The buyer did break the eBay "rules" by going direct to the seller and cutting eBay out of their fees. Assuming that the seller completed the actual eBay auction, because the buyer found the seller through eBay, they (eBay) thinks that they are entitled to their fees which is why the created the "Second Chance" scenario for the seller to offer other bidders the same item or additional items and eBay gets Final Value fees.

So to answer the question posed, yes they did break the code of ethics because both buyer and seller agree to eBay's terms & conditions when they sign up.

Would I do an offline deal like this? I think I would.

ScarsdaleCoin

I agree with I like buffalo, cant sell off ebay....he broke the rule that is the Ethics... however the reality is everybody does it!

pocketpiececommems

The way I read it the 2 additional coins were like the ones on ebay not the ones on ebay.

Wolf359

<< <i>The buyer did break the eBay "rules" by going direct to the seller and cutting eBay out of their fees. Assuming that the seller completed the actual eBay auction, because the buyer found the seller through eBay, they (eBay) thinks that they are entitled to their fees which is why the created the "Second Chance" scenario for the seller to offer other bidders the same item or additional items and eBay gets Final Value fees.

So to answer the question posed, yes they did break the code of ethics because both buyer and seller agree to eBay's terms & conditions when they sign up.

Would I do an offline deal like this? I think I would. >>



Not both, just the seller. The seller could require the buyer to enter his bid on the item, then accept it for an early sale closure; thus
keeping in compliance with eBay fees.

And actually since gecko didn't state how the transaction was closed, maybe no violation occurred.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

<< <i>I guess my only concern is that if the situation was reversed, lets say a guy walked into a B&M with an AU $3 gold piece and asked the owner for melt, and the owner tried to hide his smile as he handed the guy the money, alot of people might say the dealer was being very unethical. >>



I see nothing unethical about someone walking into a coin shop, telling the dealer what price they want, and the owner paying that price. It's the seller's own fault if he did not do any research and did not ask enough for the coin. A random seller should not rely on a buyer to give him all the information he needs to sell a coin for the best price.

If you went to a used car dealership to sell your car, and you told the dealer you only wanted the price of scrap for the car, and he bought the car at that price, is it unethical? No. You presented your price and he accepted. To call that unethical would be to call all business unethical.

…

<< <i>No different than cherry picking a Talon Head morgan from a dealers junk silver pile. >>


Exactly what i was going to say

MikeInFL

At what point does the "dealer of 40 years" turn into "little old granny" and should be protected from being taken advantage of?

ricko

Product discussed, terms made, deal closed. Contract executed. Done deal, no issues. Cheers, RickO

Walmann

Not at all, the buyer is not even really taking any "unfair" advantage of the buyer. Just because a coin can sell on Ebay for $1000 doesnt mean thats the true market price for that coin. Many of us ,at one point or the other, have seen coins on Ebay go for mulitiples above what the going retail price

barbershopper

Sounds perfectly OK as long as the listing wasn't cancelled because of it.

cinman14

The only value placed on a coin would be what you would buy it for. For all you know
the dealer paid half of what you were willing to pay. So he doubled his money and you thought
you received a great deal.

You will know how good of a deal you received when you try and sell the coin...