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Type II gold dollars

I've been looking for a TII gold dollar for the past 6 months for a type set.

What amazes me is how much damaged (bent, polished, ex-jewelry, etc.) coins sell for. The difference between the net grade prices realized are almost the same price as Heritage's price guide on undamaged coins.

Is there a bull market on TII dollars in particular, or is it a general trend?
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Obscurum per obscurius

Comments

  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231
    Here is a PCGS 58 I bought last spring. I like the orangish toned gold color.

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  • FatManFatMan Posts: 8,977
    Type collectors only real option are those produced at the mother mint. Total Philadelphia mintage for 1854 and 1855 is about 1.5 million. I have no clue how many are extant. Branch mint type II dollars are much more costly with the one below going for stupid money.

    image
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231


    << <i>Type collectors only real option are those produced at the mother mint. Total Philadelphia mintage for 1854 and 1855 is about 1.5 million. I have no clue how many are extant. Branch mint type II dollars are much more costly with the one below going for stupid money.

    image >>




    Fatman, that 1 coin might be worth more than my whole collection!!!
  • originalisbestoriginalisbest Posts: 5,911 ✭✭✭✭
    Who knows -- I haven't gotten one yet either. One day, no rush.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In the past, I have owned an 1854 and an 1855. I love the design. AU-58 is the value grade, as the prices rise rather steeply in MS.

    I really like FatMan's coin a lot. (IIRC, I was at the show when he bought it. image )

    Someone like Mark Feld would be a good person to find one for you if you are having trouble.
  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The only gold dollar I own..sorry its one of those crappy type 3's
    WS

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    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • shirohniichanshirohniichan Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭
    What surprises me is that there is such a small price spread between unimpaired and impaired coins.

    Looking at Heritage's auction archives, I see that a bent 1854 with MS60 details sold for $1,380 and an unimpaired NGC AU58 sold for $977.50 in the same auction. Even if the bent coin had fractionally better details, shouldn't it have sold for less than an unimpaired coin? How many "doggy" AU58s are there, anyway?

    What may have confused me was that unsold coins "closed" at insanely high prices (meaning the sellers were asking unimpaired prices for their bent, ex-jewelry, polished, etc. coins).
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    Obscurum per obscurius
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>In the past, I have owned an 1854 and an 1855. I love the design. AU-58 is the value grade, as the prices rise rather steeply in MS. >>

    IMO, Type 2 gold dollars are vastly overpriced in AU-58. When I was searching for my type set, probably 2/3 of ALL AU-58 gold dollars I saw were the Type 2s which despite high availability, sold for $1000+.

    I guess that's because MS pieces are rather uncommon so there's much more pressure on AU grades.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I guess that's because MS pieces are rather uncommon so there's much more pressure on AU grades. >>



    The type 2 gold dollar is one of the keys to the standard 12 piece gold type sets (the $3 being the other key) so there is a lot of demand from type collectors for this popular coin.



    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looking at Heritage's auction archives, I see that a bent 1854 with MS60 details sold for $1,380 and an unimpaired NGC AU58 sold for $977.50 in the same auction. Even if the bent coin had fractionally better details, shouldn't it have sold for less than an unimpaired coin?

    I would guess the coin was significantly better than MS60 w/o the damage and that's why the price was so strong.
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231


    << <i>

    << <i>I guess that's because MS pieces are rather uncommon so there's much more pressure on AU grades. >>



    The type 2 gold dollar is one of the keys to the standard 12 piece gold type sets (the $3 being the other key) so there is a lot of demand from type collectors for this popular coin. >>




    During the time I was building my 12 piece set (last May), those 2 coins were the biggest expenses. $1,000 on the type 2 pictured above, and $1650 on an NGC 55 1856 $3 gold. They are definitely the "bich of the bunch".
  • shirohniichanshirohniichan Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Looking at Heritage's auction archives, I see that a bent 1854 with MS60 details sold for $1,380 and an unimpaired NGC AU58 sold for $977.50 in the same auction. Even if the bent coin had fractionally better details, shouldn't it have sold for less than an unimpaired coin?

    I would guess the coin was significantly better than MS60 w/o the damage and that's why the price was so strong. >>



    If that's the case, ANACS new grading system confuses me. The labels used to read, "MS65 details,Polished, bent, Net MS60". In that case, the coin probably looked really good, even if impaired. If the new labels read, "Bent, MS60 details", I imagine it would look like a baggy MS coin that was bent. image

    BTW, beautiful coin, FatMan. image
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    Obscurum per obscurius
  • shirohniichanshirohniichan Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭
    Any new insight into the small price spread between problem and problem-free coins in this series?
    image
    Obscurum per obscurius
  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For as long as I can remember the Type II gold dollars have always been the toughest of the three types to find in problem-free, attractive condition.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

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  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,957 ✭✭✭
    I have lightly followed these for the last few years and they have had a nice gradual increase in pricing and because of the scarcity the net graded coins have followed nicely too.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    just picked up this example for my type set

    imageimage

    these had been strongly priced a few years ago when this thread was first posted, but have come down in price somewhat in the time since then

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Type II gold dollars are not that rare. The old time dealers used to say that they are over rated. The trouble is they are a key part of the 12 piece gold type set and that has driven up the prices, especially in Mint State. Complicating the problem are the reasons the design was dropped so quickly in the first place. The die relief was too deep to strike a very thin coin, and most pieces have weak dates and poorly defined design details. This got worse when the coins received wear in circulation, and well struck examples to bring a well-deserved premium.

    Here are the two pieces in my collection, but 1854s. The first one is graded MS-64 and it does make the grade although it does show in this photo.

    imageimage

    This one is an AU-55, and it used to be my #1 piece. I paid a premium for this coin because because the strike and the eye appeal. I just did not feel like losing money on it because it is in an AU-55 holder so I have held it.

    imageimage
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Nice AU58s can be hard to find; some get cracked out looking for MS grades through resubmission because of the huge spreads. I had an AU50 I sent in to NGC recently after a critical analysis by a dealer, too many bubbles on the rim possibly indicative of a fake, he said, at any rate that coin is a tough sell because of problems, back at NGC for an appearance review.... >>



    Some 1854 Type II gold dollars were struck with rusted dies. The two pieces I have (shown above) are the same variety (there are 5 varieites of 1854 Type II dollar to my knowledge), and they both show die rust. I once owned one that might be in an MS-65 holder today that had die rust on the obverse between the letters.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>just picked up this example for my type set

    imageimage

    these had been strongly priced a few years ago when this thread was first posted, but have come down in price somewhat in the time since then >>


    Nice looking coin.

    Overall, other than the four branch mint issues, I have little personal interest in the short series.
  • LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
    I really like the T1 and T2, but do not prefer the T3s.
    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Like most smaller gold type, these pretty much topped in price back in spring of 2006 and have meandered down in price ever since along with the $3's as money filtered away
    from rarer gold coins towards bullion. Apparently there are plenty of these scarcer gold type coins to satisfy demand. I would agree with Bill Jones that if you look at the pops,
    the Type 2 gold dollars and $3's have some pretty substantial numbers. Buyers can afford to be very fussy here. Rather than a bull market, I'd call these specialty type coins to
    be in a dead market other than for the key/underrated dates in problem free condition and choice/gem mint state pop tops.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I found this one at a Long Beach show last year. It was probably the hardest coin of the 12-piece set to find at the grade I wanted (AU58). This coin isn't spectacular as it demonstrates the typical softness of detail and weakness of strike. There are no distracting marks though and I like the dark look. The price was right and it fits pretty well with the rest of the set. Distinguishing wear from strike on these is best left to someone with more experience than me. These get so ridiculously expensive in MS grades.

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  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> Nice looking coin.

    Overall, other than the four branch mint issues, I have little personal interest in the short series. >>



    Thanks, I liked it at NGC AU55, here are the seller's scans, my pics tilted and lit up to show the remaining luster

    image

    This was the last coin I needed for the 12 piece gold type set, and only my third gold dollar, I just find them too small to really enjoy, in fact I went after the classic head and no motto coronet gold long before finding a type 2 gold dollar I liked at what I considered a fair price ($500), agree with RYK, it's not a series I'd be interested in trying to finish, particularly in mint state.

    I do like the clash marks and think they add to the interest, having a complete Liberty profile on the reverse is kind of cool

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    Here is my one and only Type 2 Gold Dollar.



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    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • HoledandCreativeHoledandCreative Posts: 2,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am still looking for a nice 55-D with a hole in it. Have looked for a long time.

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