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Should the US Mint get out of the bullion coin business?
291fifth
Posts: 23,945 ✭✭✭✭✭
I say, yes!
Let's leave the production of bullion pieces to private industry.
Let's leave the production of bullion pieces to private industry.
All glory is fleeting.
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I buy these pieces but if they run short and I don't have them, that is my fault if I don't order right away.
I think they should get out of doing multiples of the same thing using only different packaging. Keep doing bullion but nix the multiple packaged items.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
-Paul
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Any particular reason? It's one of the very few profit centers that our government operates. I'd like to hear your logic.
Frankly, I'd like to see them cut distributors out of the equation and sell bullion directly to the public.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>If the US government didn't make it, would it still be a coin or would it be a bullion round or token? >>
All that matters is the amount of metal they contain. The face values on US bullion coins are a joke anyway.
cash registers woud have to be kindda big to store all those slabs!
When all gold ownership restrictions were lifted, quite a few citizens wrote to the Treasury Department asking to buy gold and silver bullion pieces made from American gold, and that were of recognized purity and authenticity.
The US Mint responded with various bullion pieces that can be bought at prices competitive with bullion from other countries. Special collector versions, proofs, etc. were made because collectors requested them.
Why should US buyers be forced to buy from, and give profit to, other countries?
<< <i>No... they do an excellent job at this particular endeavor.... and it legitimizes the items... people can purchase without fear of fraud. Cheers, RickO >>
unless it is sold on ebay coming from china. But they can limit the numbers a bit more to make them real collectables with a future rather than a run of the mill same ol same old silver dollar coin that is way over priced from the mint for the numbers minted.
I was a Monkey
291,
I agree with a lot of your posts, but this one baffles me. The program is wildly popular and profitable. So long as it is both, I see no reason for the Mint to get out of the business.
<< <i>Should the US Mint get out of the bullion coin business?
291,
I agree with a lot of your posts, but this one baffles me. The program is wildly popular and profitable. So long as it is both, I see no reason for the Mint to get out of the business. >>
I wonder if it is profitable? Has any study of costs and income associated with the program ever been published? It would not surprise me to find that it is a very high cost operation that actually loses money.
<< <i>
<< <i>If the US government didn't make it, would it still be a coin or would it be a bullion round or token? >>
All that matters is the amount of metal they contain. The face values on US bullion coins are a joke anyway. >>
Being a legal tender coin produced by the US government is important to many buyer of gold bullion coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>YES !! >>
No one is forcing you to buy them. This is one of the few government enterprises that actually generate a profit for the US treasury. I can't see why any reasonable citizen would be against this.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
The whole purpose behind the program is on the US Mints Web Site:
American Eagle Bullion Coins for Investors
Congressionally authorized American Eagle Bullion Coins provide investors with a convenient and cost-effective way to add a small amount of physical platinum, gold, or silver to their investment portfolios. Since their launch in 1986, gold, platinum and silver American Eagles have become leading bullion coin investment products.
We collector's turned it into a coin collecting opportunity.
Personally, I'd like to see them continue. Heck, maybe a 100% Copper Eagle isn't to far off in the future!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>No! Cut out the middle man distributor and add the copper eagle!
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>Why?.....A lot of major foreign Mints are also in the bullion business. We should consider ourselves lucky. Just compare their "bullion coin" prices to ours ... "sticker shock." >>
Yes they do have somewhat higher prices, in most cases, but ASE made up over 87% of all major* one ounce silver bullion coins in 2000. In fact in 1987 silver ealges passed the total of all years of libertads combined up to that point.
Libertads Mapleleaf Kookaburra Kangaroo Brittannia
1982 1,049,680
1983 1,001,768
1984 1,014,000
1985 2,017,000
1986 1,699,426
1987 500,000
1988 1,500,500 1,062,000
1989 1,396,500 3,332,200 300,000
1990 1,200,002 1,708,800 300,000
1991 1,650,518 644,300 300,000
1992 2,458,000 343,800 300,000
1993 1,000,000 1,133,900 300,000 72,853
1994 400,000 889,946 300,000 44,996
1995 500,000 326,255 300,000 72,850
1996 280,001 250,445 300,000 49,398
1997 119,999 100,970 300,000 72,850
1998 67,000 591,359 300,000 49,398 88,909
1999 95,000 1,229,442 300,000 49,398 69,394
2000 396,400 403,652 300,000 42,638 81,301
2001 768,600 398,563 300,000 45,562 44,816
2002 955,000 576,169 300,000 32,376 48,215
2003 678,869 684,750 300,000 35,230 73,721
2004 560,412 680,925 300,000 55,057 100,000**
2005 600,007 955,694 300,000 26,146 100,000**
2006 300,000 300,000 25,227 100,000**
*Mapleleaf, Panda, Libertad, Kanagroo, Kookoburra, Britiania, Panda, Eagle.
** Authorized
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>Why?.....A lot of major foreign Mints are also in the bullion business. We should consider ourselves lucky. Just compare their "bullion coin" prices to ours ... "sticker shock." >>
Agreed. What is the big deal? Would a person rather buy a Canadian or Australian bullion coin vs. an American coin? That is one reason the U. S. mint got into the business, because so much of the business was going to Maple Leafs and Kruggerands.
The bullion coin programs make money, and have a solid collector base. If it was losing money, the mint would jack up the prices even more, so I can't believe it is losing money.
<< <i>
Personally, I'd like to see them continue. Heck, maybe a 100% Copper Eagle isn't to far off in the future!
Copper just hit 30c per troy ounce today for the first time. That's higher than silver was in the grweat depression.
Nickel was up to around $2.10 per troy ounce last year.
Any chance I could get the US Mint to share the profits on MY idea??
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>Why?.....A lot of major foreign Mints are also in the bullion business. We should consider ourselves lucky. Just compare their "bullion coin" prices to ours ... "sticker shock." >>
Agreed. What is the big deal? Would a person rather buy a Canadian or Australian bullion coin vs. an American coin? That is one reason the U. S. mint got into the business, because so much of the business was going to Maple Leafs and Kruggerands.
The bullion coin programs make money, and have a solid collector base. If it was losing money, the mint would jack up the prices even more, so I can't believe it is losing money. >>
I don't do gold, just silver.. and Yes I would rather buy Australian or British.. for the simple fact the US Mint can't seem to pick up the phone and call these other mints and ask how they make coins that don't milk spot.
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>Why?.....A lot of major foreign Mints are also in the bullion business. We should consider ourselves lucky. Just compare their "bullion coin" prices to ours ... "sticker shock." >>
their coins are more collectors bullion, not the stuff churned out by the truckload here in the States; much lower mintage (and generally much better quality; they were doing the reverse proof years ago, and with better quality than our recent stuff) = higher price.
Think about it, if a company that wins a contract to mint US coins and some bozo decided to add another wasteful metal instead of minting a pure coin silver/gold/plat, who will be responsible for the damage and the drop in value of coins minted.
I read somewhere a longtime ago that the US MINT is exactly what it stands a US backed product. This means every coin or dollar or whatever is minted is backed by 100% faith that what you buy and own will be 100% pure in which is described on the label.
I can see some Knucklebuck from Enron or Bears and Stearns winning a contract from our Gov. to mint our monies and one day and I hope it never happens we need to return all high grade pure metals for War to make bombs or ammo and when our metals hit the target they bounce off like popcorn kernnels.
Lastly what company or human being owning such a coin minting company would be faithful in protecting the dies, could you stomach the Chinks or Russia getting ahold of our dies and printing US coins. That is why it will "NEVER" happen.
GOD BLESS AMERICA AND GOD BLESS THE US MINT.
<< <i>Think about it, if a company that wins a contract to mint US coins and some bozo decided to add another wasteful metal instead of minting a pure coin silver/gold/plat, who will be responsible for the damage and the drop in value of coins minted. >>
Actually, that may dramatically increase the value of the coin. Just look at the Baldwin $10 Horseman. It's worth a lot exactly because the put too little gold in it and most of them were melted down. They may lose their contract, but the coins themselves may become worth a lot.
PCGS needs to slab bullion to stay in business. And I need PCGS to stay in business slab my classic stuff.
Besides, if the Mint makes money on these, we will need all we can get to reduce balloning budget deficits.
The US Mint offeres explicit guarantees and that gives people confidence in the product - just as the US Assay Office stamp once gave 400 oz fine gold bars used in international trade.
Should the Classic Collector worry about what the US Mint is putting out?
After all many on the board claim that everything the mint makes are just bullion coins, so I guess they just need to shut down.
The Mint never should have left the bullion coin business. Let's remember that the Mint was in the business of providing a coinage service for citizens that brought it their silver or gold - from the very beginning. It helped establish standard weights & measures for coinage and in that way - for more reliable commercial transactions.
It seems that our government could learn some basic things from the Founding Fathers.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Several replies have indicated that the US mint makes money on its bullion coin business. Is there any documentation that proves that they make money on their bullion coin programs? Given the pay levels of government employees and their golden benefit programs I wouldn't be surprised to see that the bullion coin programs actually lose money. >>
You might try to contact DeepCoin for that info (he works for the Mint), but I'm certain that they do make a profit, albeit a small profit, on all bullion coins they sell.
Back in the 70s and early 80s the Krugerrand was king, now it's the GAE, so you can forget about the US Mint stopping production of bullion coins.
I know there is no such thing as buying at spot, but $350-400 over spot, who's buying at these prices?
Scott
No, the U.S. should get into the bullion coin hobby. It spends better here than any other place in the world. See WalMart for details.