Hey Buff guys, what does this 1926-S grade? Update - Now graded.

Russ · March 9, 2008 7:50AM

Update: Graded XF45.

This is from the Whitman set I've been working on:

I'm thinking F12, maybe F15. Am I close? Way off?

Russ, NCNE

ahooka454 · March 9, 2008 7:52AM

Not sure, but it does look problem free. Not really big into these coins yet.

ksteelheader · March 9, 2008 7:57AM

I just looked at Langes book, and I think VF-20 is more correct.

pursuitofliberty · March 9, 2008 7:58AM

I'm thinking noticably higher ... the 26-s is notoriously poorly struck, and that one could surprise you on grade. I'll reserve my guess until after the real pro's chime in ...

also, that S looks a little funny ... that's not an embossing job is it?

commoncents05 · March 9, 2008 8:00AM

The S doesn't look right to me, but looks to be VF.

-Paul

jdillane · March 9, 2008 8:00AM

Admittedly, I do not know the buff's well enough to do more than speculate, but she's gotta rate VF at a minimum. My first blush was 25.

Doogy · March 9, 2008 8:00AM

69, with a shot at 70

STONE · March 9, 2008 8:00AM

Pursuitoliberty, I noticed and thought the same thing with the mintmark.

I also think this would grade around a VF-35. Nice to see one with a full horn!!!

Russ · March 9, 2008 8:04AM

<< also, that S looks a little funny ... that's not an embossing job is it? >>

Now that you mention it, it does look weird. In fact, looking at it under the loupe, I think it's fake!

Russ, NCNE

STONE · March 9, 2008 8:15AM

HUH, well that's interesting Russ!!!

ahooka454 · March 9, 2008 8:17AM

Is it an added MM or something else?

Russ · March 9, 2008 8:21AM

Okay, I shot a closeup of the mint mark:

I think it was added to a 1926.

Russ, NCNE

UltraHighRelief · March 9, 2008 8:26AM

vf 25/30 if it is real

SamByrd · March 9, 2008 8:32AM

vf20, 26s is poorly struck almost always

Cam40 · March 9, 2008 8:34AM

as poor as the die state is i wouldnt say its that unusual.
and may grade xf. the tops of liberty arent worn from wear
but struck on worn dies. as is for the other mushy elements

commoncents05 · March 9, 2008 8:35AM

Given the new pics of the MM, I think it's fake.

-Paul

lasvegasteddy · March 9, 2008 8:35AM

ya know that looks like an embossed mm and the first i've seen too

pursuitofliberty · March 9, 2008 8:35AM

too bad about the MM ... I was closest in agreement with Stone ... thinking along the lines of a 30 for this issue

ricko · March 9, 2008 8:37AM

Yep.. I think that is either added or tooled... not sure which... Cheers, RickO

intocoins · March 9, 2008 8:37AM

A pic of the edge directly under the mint mark will probably confirm whether or not it is Embossed and check the flow lines on the mint mark.

Cam40 · March 9, 2008 8:38AM

phhh
what matter does it make about grade if its fake

Russ · March 9, 2008 8:41AM

Crap! Now I'm going to have to dig through my records and figure out how bad I got screwed.

Russ, NCNE

Walkerguy21D · March 9, 2008 9:20AM

There was an excellent thread about embossed mm buffs that I found on here back last ~May when I was a 'lurker'. Lots of pics, examples, and discussion. Can't remember who the originator was. I know it was enough to scare me into checking all the edges of all my better mm buffs!
BTW - bummer Russ - I know you are one of the good guys on here - hope it works out for you one way or another.

Greg

Frankcoins · March 9, 2008 9:34AM

Should grade VF30. Genuine

charley · March 9, 2008 9:36AM

Is that a die clash under the v and e? Respectfully, John Curlis

Vetter · March 9, 2008 9:38AM

I think it's real and fits in with the strike of the rev. As for grade...VF30.

pursuitofliberty · March 9, 2008 9:46AM

I sent Russ a PM, but will relay it here ...

I 100% believe it to be FAKE ... although I could be wrong ... however it does not look like an embossed MM at all, yet rather an etching and tooling added MM

I hope some others will chime in. Look at the close-up ... I don't believe that type of S was used on any US coins that I can think of ...

on a side note ... I hope you didin't get hosed on it Russ

Russ · March 9, 2008 10:13AM

Okay, this is getting interesting. I got a PM from a helpful forum member with this link:

PCGS F15 example.

The mint mark and surrounding area on that coin looks an awful lot like my coin.

In any event, it looks like I picked it up for $35 on a bid board about 2 1/2 years ago so if it's fake, the hosing isn't too bad.

Russ, NCNE

Russ · March 9, 2008 10:24AM

Comparison of mine with the one in the Heritage auction:

Russ, NCNE

gyocomgd · March 9, 2008 12:22PM

Russ, it doesn't look right at all. Take a picture of the rim of the coin below the S and let us have a look. If the rim bears notch-like marks like those you see here (the 25-S is mine), it's embossed. If you see nothing on the rim, then it may merely be an added mintmark.

gyocomgd · March 9, 2008 12:28PM

Oh...and check out this link:
Embossed mint mark

TexasNationals · March 9, 2008 12:30PM

tooled MM

ahooka454 · March 9, 2008 12:52PM

seanq · March 9, 2008 12:55PM

<< Should grade VF30. Genuine >>

Quick, sell it to Frank.

Sean Reynolds

Shamika · March 9, 2008 1:11PM

Russ - The mint mark is fine and the funny look is due to die erosion which is not uncommon with 26-S's. The coin is completely legit.

ad4400 · March 9, 2008 1:24PM

I'll echo what others have said in one fashion or another. First, check the rim for the types of markings that Guy points out.

Next building on Chris's theme, I don't think the 26-Ps are known for worn dies that your coin exhibits. If it was an added MM to a 26-P I would think the coin wouldn't exhibit the type of die wear your coin does. Likewise I don't think Liberty would be worn away as it given the deails else where on the coin - another sign of late die state. Now, I can't swear to be an expert to added MMs, thus why I flee to the TPGs for the better dates for authentication purposes. I agree the the close up gives reason for pause, with the action on either side of the MM. That said, if the rim looks okay, coupled with the worn dies know in the 26 D&Ss, perhaps your coin is okay.

Russ · March 10, 2008 1:51AM

<< I don't think the 26-Ps are known for worn dies that your coin exhibits. If it was an added MM to a 26-P I would think the coin wouldn't exhibit the type of die wear your coin does. Likewise I don't think Liberty would be worn away as it given the deails else where on the coin - another sign of late die state. >>

This is essentially the same thing noted by the forum member who PMed me the link to the Heritage auction. I should note that this particular forum member is well known for his numismatic expertise. In fact, he was one of the winners in the PCGS grading contest.

This turned out to be a very fun thread!

Russ, NCNE

charley · March 10, 2008 1:54AM

I am still interested in whether or not there is a die clash. Respectfully, John Curlis

nankraut · March 10, 2008 2:03AM

Wow! This thread has a plethora (I've always wanted to use that word) of info. And, I see thaty everybody is in complete agreement. heh heh.

I'm one of those "self-made" buff experts. IMHO, this coin is a genuine 26-S. The 26P's just weren't struck like this. Grade? F15+.

Connecticoin · March 10, 2008 2:32AM

Well, we just need cape and buffnut to chime in the we will be all set!

Very interesting thread indeed --- it appears the buff experts to date are leaning genuine.

yellowjacket · March 10, 2008 2:49AM

Both Guy and Shamika have good points. The edge will give you much information. There could be more die errosion in front of the rear leg, as well. I grade your Buff a solid XF. That seems to be higher than others have said. The full horn makes the market grade.

I like it.

Garrow

ricko · March 10, 2008 2:49AM

I must admit, after seeing the Heritage photograph, I was likely wrong. I truly suspected tooling... but the markings are almost identical to the Heritage example. In this case, I am happy to be wrong... Cheers, RickO

sturmgrenadier · March 10, 2008 2:51AM

This is a beginner's question, but how can one tell if an Indian Head nickel's date has been acid-treated? Does it impart a distinctive color to the area?

Russ · March 10, 2008 2:53AM

<< I grade your Buff a solid XF. >>

There's a rather ginormous value jump in XF, so I'm inclined to think that since I picked it up cheap off a bid board there's no way in hell.

Russ, NCNE

coinkat · March 10, 2008 2:53AM

I just saw the thread... I agree with the comments about the 1926 Buff and the wear pattern is not consistent with what the coin should look like if it were a fake. LIBERTY would likely be separated from the rim. While the S does look suspect, based on the Heritage picture, it seems to be a late die state and likely worth submitting as the VF price of a 1926-s is significantly higher than F15. Good luck with the submission Russ

Russ · March 10, 2008 2:54AM

<< This is a beginner's question, but how can one tell if an Indian Head nickel's date has been acid-treated? Does it impart a distinctive color to the area? >>

Yes, it does. It also makes the area look etched.

Russ, NCNE

Russ · March 10, 2008 2:57AM

sturmgrenadier,

Look at the coins in this set:

Russ, NCNE

Russ · March 10, 2008 3:02AM

<< it seems to be a late die state and likely worth submitting as the VF price of a 1926-s is significantly higher than F15. Good luck with the submission Russ >>

I actually wasn't planning to submit it, but maybe I will and just get a lower graded one for my album.

Russ, NCNE

tresgatos · March 10, 2008 3:18AM

Here are three different '26 s.
My humble opinion is that the mm was carved out of the field.

Shamika · March 10, 2008 4:28AM

<< Here are three different '26 s.
My humble opinion is that the mm was carved out of the field. >>

No way has the MM been carved out of the field. This exact type of die erosion is very commonly seen on this issue. The 26-D's also show similar die erosion on/around the mint mark.

Shamika · March 10, 2008 4:36AM

Oh, and I agree with Garrow; the coin looks XF-40. This date/mm usually looks much worse than many of the other dates in the series so TPG's usually give it a market grade.

Hey Buff guys, what does this 1926-S grade? Update - Now graded.

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