<< <i>It's not just worker-bees who get canned. You might ask Stan O'Neal, who used to be El Jefe at Merrill Lynch about this, or look at recent articles re Citibank. A number of high profile Fortune 500 types have been given the ax for underperforming this year. >>
True, but the difference usually is that the higher profile types get a nice severance package "golden parachute".
JJ
Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer.
That's worth repeating. Thank you, Russ.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>It's not just worker-bees who get canned. You might ask Stan O'Neal, who used to be El Jefe at Merrill Lynch about this, or look at recent articles re Citibank. A number of high profile Fortune 500 types have been given the ax for underperforming this year. >>
Let's hope the worker bee walked with 77MM like Chuck Prince or 48MM like O'Neal, not to mention running these enterprises into the ground while receiving over $20,000,000 per year doing it! PLEASE!!! WAKE UP!!! SMELL THE MANURE!!!
<< <i>It's not just worker-bees who get canned. You might ask Stan O'Neal, who used to be El Jefe at Merrill Lynch about this, or look at recent articles re Citibank. A number of high profile Fortune 500 types have been given the ax for underperforming this year. >>
Poor, poor guys. How will they survive on their golden parachutes?
<< <i> What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer.
That's worth repeating. Thank you, Russ. >>
And I hope James Taylor fails miserably. I repeated that myself.
Which will be the first TPG service to be placed in a container and shipped to China, where the graders will earn 70 cents a day and all the cardboard they can eat??????
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer.
Russ, NCNE >>
Yes, the business seller is the one with all the cash now. It is up to them to give a final bonus to the employees that served them.
I once worked for a software company that was founded (and owned) entirely by the company's president. When he sold the company to Kodak, some people were laid off. But he gave EVERYONE a bonus that was pro-rated based upon the time each person had spent working for the company. That was a very fair handling of the situation. No one expected (or received) a bonus or severance package from the buyer.
<< <i>Was JT working for ICG up to the time that he purchased ANACS? >>
Is there some litigation in the midst?
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>Was JT working for ICG up to the time that he purchased ANACS? >>
I don't know. I do know that he was no longer at the ICG offices as of December 19. And he was "not available" when I called the ICG offices a couple times in November. But that doesn't really mean anything.
<< <i>What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer. >>
Having been a construction electrician for a good portion of my life layoffs were a fact of life that I and all others like me accepted as part of the game. Whenever we were hired to work on a hotel, shopping center or whatever we knew without anyone telling us that when the job was done so were we. It seems that these construction jobs always were completed for grand opening just before Christmas. We just learned to live with that fact and after enjoying a normal Merry Christmas and Happy New Year set about getting hired on to a new project that would inevitably finish up next Christmas. I never felt the company did anything wrong and usually wound up working for the same company over and over with the same future outlook and much the same results employmentwise. When I eventually opened my own business I discovered the flip side of this situation. Many times people I was grooming for leadership roles or who were already in that role responded to offers of a better situation at one of my competitors and left with no concern for any effect they had on my plans or any impact their leaving would have. This is America where all parties are free to pursue their dreams and ambitions as they see fit so long as they do nothing illegal. ANACS moved from Colorado Springs to Ohio with, I'm sure, some disappointed employees being either uprooted or layed off. After a short period in Ohio they were abruptly sold again and moved to Austin with the same scenario. Now it's happened again and suddenly James Taylor becomes Scrooge. He purchased the company and so it is his to with as suits him best. He can move it to Alaska if he so desires and it is none of my concern. The only thing that is of concern to me is whether or not he will offer the hobby a viable product. If he does no one will care about this human drama a year from now. And if he doesn't ANACS will be sold again with people being dismissed from their jobs and the cycle starts all over again with someone else playing the Grinch. As Walter Cronkite used to say"and that's the way it is". Dave W
David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com
<< What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer. >>
Yes, the business seller is the one with all the cash now. It is up to them to give a final bonus to the employees that served them.
Assuming there's no contractual obligation between the company and the employee, and that this is just about "doing the right thing"? Yes, it's up to the seller, but not because he has the cash. It's up to the seller because he is the one that had the relationship with the employees.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Having been a construction electrician for a good portion of my life layoffs were a fact of life that I and all others like me accepted as part of the game. Whenever we were hired to work on a hotel, shopping center or whatever we knew without anyone telling us that when the job was done so were we. It seems that these construction jobs always were completed for grand opening just before Christmas. We just learned to live with that fact and after enjoying a normal Merry Christmas and Happy New Year set about getting hired on to a new project that would inevitably finish up next Christmas. I never felt the company did anything wrong and usually wound up working for the same company over and over with the same future outlook and much the same results employmentwise. When I eventually opened my own business I discovered the flip side of this situation. Many times people I was grooming for leadership roles or who were already in that role responded to offers of a better situation at one of my competitors and left with no concern for any effect they had on my plans or any impact their leaving would have. This is America where all parties are free to pursue their dreams and ambitions as they see fit so long as they do nothing illegal. ANACS moved from Colorado Springs to Ohio with, I'm sure, some disappointed employees being either uprooted or layed off. After a short period in Ohio they were abruptly sold again and moved to Austin with the same scenario. Now it's happened again and suddenly James Taylor becomes Scrooge. He purchased the company and so it is his to with as suits him best. He can move it to Alaska if he so desires and it is none of my concern. The only thing that is of concern to me is whether or not he will offer the hobby a viable product. If he does no one will care about this human drama a year from now. And if he doesn't ANACS will be sold again with people being dismissed from their jobs and the cycle starts all over again with someone else playing the Grinch. As Walter Cronkite used to say"and that's the way it is". Dave W
David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com >>
You can sugar coat this all you wish and it still don't make it right.
<< <i>What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer.
Russ, NCNE >>
I agree. I have sold two companies in the past and I have always made an effort to see that our employees were given a fair deal. In one transaction I negotiated continued employment for a period of 90 days, and in the other I offered a fair severance package for all employees who continued employment through to the sales date. I also contracted the services of an employment agency to assist all employees with procuring future employment.
Although it is easy to blame JT, he was not the employer. The blame rests solely with the employer.
It's not just worker-bees who get canned. You might ask Stan O'Neal, who used to be El Jefe at Merrill Lynch about this, or look at recent articles re Citibank. A number of high profile Fortune 500 types have been given the ax for underperforming this year. >>
Yep, poor Bob Nardelli walked away with a measly $165000000 from Home Depot and had to settle with a job at Chrysler. Maybe after he rapes the automaker he'd like a career in running a TPG...
I've been involved in sales of businesses where one of the terms of the sale is that the buyer has to keep everyone on board for one year after the sale. Of course, the employees don't know this, but at least there isn't a mass firing immediately after the closing. The other "sad" thing is that the corporate executives at the acquired company almost always cut a side deal with the buyer which provides sweet retention incentives, bonuses, immediate vesting of stock options which would have expired with a change of control, etc., etc., again without the general worker bees knowing about it.
The absence of retention incentives indicates that ANACS was a marginal business at best.
Anyone have any inside info about the selling price, whether receivables were included, and whether buyer assumed liabilities like ANACS' authenticity guarantee? Wouldn't it be interesting if there wasn't much cash involved, just seller keeping pre-closing receivables, and buyer assuming liabilities? I could see that. That would help explain what little we know about the employee situation.
<< <i>The best executives can find a happy medium, IMO -- first and foremost guiding the business and making tough decisions when they have to, but also recognizing that up to some point, not screwing your workers and earning their trust *is* good business. The best executives also recognize that it's not worth engineering a good quarter by screwing the company's longer-term future.
What does that have to do with JT and the ANACS debacle? Maybe not much and maybe a lot. Just consider these to be general brain-droppings. It's easy for the peasants to grab pitchforks and quote Marx, and it's also easy to justify any and all heartless business moves that are perceived as good for the bottom line. It's sometimes harder to see both sides. >>
Exactly what I was saying, and we don't know all of the facts.
This will certainly be a popcorn eating weekend around here.
Last Friday ANACS has their 25, 30 whatever number of employees. This Friday, there are none and the equipment is on a Mayflower van. Wednesday, the new, new ANACS will be fully operational.
This kind of "rising from the dead in 3 days" hasn't happened in 2000 years.
Joe
The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition.
<< <i>You can sugar coat this all you wish and it still don't make it right.
And it doesn't do any good to point fingers until you've thought long and hard about where to point. >>
So, lets see, this fine moral upstanding example of the coin world buys a company and all the employees lose their jobs AND he raids the company he was still employeed at, and at reduced wages, to further his greedy needs. I think the finger is in the right direction. Middle finger in the air.
<< <i>Having been a construction electrician for a good portion of my life layoffs were a fact of life that I and all others like me accepted as part of the game. *snip* He can move it to Alaska if he so desires and it is none of my concern. The only thing that is of concern to me is whether or not he will offer the hobby a viable product. If he does no one will care about this human drama a year from now. And if he doesn't ANACS will be sold again with people being dismissed from their jobs and the cycle starts all over again with someone else playing the Grinch. As Walter Cronkite used to say"and that's the way it is". Dave W
David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com >>
You can sugar coat this all you wish and it still don't make it right. >>
Unfortunately no business model in the capitalist system makes any provisions for those workers less fortunate who did not have the good fortune to have wealthy parents or the ability, education, and luck to make themselves wealthy. They still have kids to feed, mortgages to pay, and sadly some of them may indeed live from paycheck to paycheck. When you care about your fellow man, which few of us do, it's not so easy to say "thats just the way it is". Wonder how easy for some of those folks to say "that's the way it is" to their kids, especially at this time of the year...
<< <i>What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer.
Russ, NCNE >>
Yes, the business seller is the one with all the cash now. It is up to them to give a final bonus to the employees that served them.
I once worked for a software company that was founded (and owned) entirely by the company's president. When he sold the company to Kodak, some people were laid off. But he gave EVERYONE a bonus that was pro-rated based upon the time each person had spent working for the company. That was a very fair handling of the situation. No one expected (or received) a bonus or severance package from the buyer. >>
The last company I worked for went thru about 5-6 different owners over a 14 1/2 year period. They all had one thing in common; they paid what was due but not one cent more. When I was let go at the end of that 14 1/2 year period I didn't receive even one cent in severance. They also sent me a letter a few weeks after I left demanding that I immediately repay a business expense cash advance of a little over $100 that was apparently outstanding. Business (sales) for me personally had been good for all but about the last 9 months I worked there. Fundamental changes in the way the auto companies bought media finally did me in. I wasn't surprised that they decided to close my office and let me go. I had been expecting it for a few months. What really got me was the way I was treated at the end. (I believe they also tried to dispute my unemployment insurance application, but their attempt was immediately turned down since I had kept excellent written records and it was very obvious that I had been fired and had not resigned.) I never spoke to anyone in that company's management again.
<< You can sugar coat this all you wish and it still don't make it right.
And it doesn't do any good to point fingers until you've thought long and hard about where to point. >>
So, lets see, this fine moral upstanding example of the coin world buys a company and all the employees lose their jobs AND he raids the company he was still employeed at, and at reduced wages, to further his greedy needs. I think the finger is in the right direction. Middle finger in the air.
Well, I have to admit the analysis is improving. Still, it's not like JT forced ICG's employees to jump ship for low salaries. Somehow, it had to be a good deal for them or they wouldn't have done it. Right?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>You can sugar coat this all you wish and it still don't make it right.
And it doesn't do any good to point fingers until you've thought long and hard about where to point. >>
So, lets see, this fine moral upstanding example of the coin world buys a company and all the employees lose their jobs AND he raids the company he was still employeed at, and at reduced wages, to further his greedy needs. I think the finger is in the right direction. Middle finger in the air. >>
Do you know for a fact that people have left ICG to go work for ANACS at lower wages ? Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor left ICG ? Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor bought ANACS ?
<< <i>You can sugar coat this all you wish and it still don't make it right.
And it doesn't do any good to point fingers until you've thought long and hard about where to point. >>
So, lets see, this fine moral upstanding example of the coin world buys a company and all the employees lose their jobs AND he raids the company he was still employeed at, and at reduced wages, to further his greedy needs. I think the finger is in the right direction. Middle finger in the air. >>
Do you know for a fact that people have left ICG to go work for ANACS at lower wages ? Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor left ICG ? Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor bought ANACS ? >>
Read the threads. The answers are there. I'm not going to go find them for you.
Do you know for a fact that people have left ICG to go work for ANACS at lower wages ? Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor left ICG ? Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor bought ANACS ? >>
Fact is, we don't have all the facts, and I doubt the employees do either.
<< <i>You can sugar coat this all you wish and it still don't make it right.
And it doesn't do any good to point fingers until you've thought long and hard about where to point. >>
So, lets see, this fine moral upstanding example of the coin world buys a company and all the employees lose their jobs AND he raids the company he was still employeed at, and at reduced wages, to further his greedy needs. I think the finger is in the right direction. Middle finger in the air. >>
Do you know for a fact that people have left ICG to go work for ANACS at lower wages ? Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor left ICG ? Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor bought ANACS ? >>
Read the threads. The answers are there. I'm not going to go find them for you. >>
We are far from having all the answers. For example, if true, why would ICG employees leave ICG to go work for ANACS at reduced wages ? Answer that, WITH FACTS please.
Huh. I read that ICG was in trouble, reducing salaries and Taylor failed to buy them out. So he bought ANACS to protect them, fired everyone there, then moved to Colorado to re-hire the ICG people at their old salary.
"As Walter Cronkite used to say"and that's the way it is"."
We now know that he was lying about that, when it came to Vietnam anyway. We were winning militarily, but that's not what he said. More than anyone else, he talked the US into "losing" in Vietnam.
Now, if he had been honest and said, "that's the way I say it is", that would have been OK, and honest.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
So now we have a coin grading company in Colorado with no coin graders, and coin graders in Austin with no company infrastructure. It would seem possible for the former ANACS graders and the ICG execs to get together and reassemble a grading company under the ICG brand.
<< <i>Huh. I read that ICG was in trouble, reducing salaries and Taylor failed to buy them out. So he bought ANACS to protect them, fired everyone there, then moved to Colorado to re-hire the ICG people at their old salary.
I could be mistaken though. >>
Something along those lines is possible, although I've personally not heard talk of ICG being in any trouble. The only FACT I have at this point is that, as of December 19, Kiefer, Martin, DeFelice (and others) were present and working at the ICG offices. And the ICG web page still lists the same grading team they had previously.
<< <i>You can sugar coat this all you wish and it still don't make it right.
And it doesn't do any good to point fingers until you've thought long and hard about where to point. >>
So, lets see, this fine moral upstanding example of the coin world buys a company and all the employees lose their jobs AND he raids the company he was still employeed at, and at reduced wages, to further his greedy needs. I think the finger is in the right direction. Middle finger in the air. >>
Do you know for a fact that people have left ICG to go work for ANACS at lower wages ? Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor left ICG ? Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor bought ANACS ? >>
Read the threads. The answers are there. I'm not going to go find them for you. >>
We are far from having all the answers. For example, if true, why would ICG employees leave ICG to go work for ANACS at reduced wages ? Answer that, WITH FACTS please. >>
Read the threads. The answers are there. I'm not going to go find them for you.
<< <i>What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer.
Russ, NCNE >>
Well said.
<< <i>And I hope James Taylor fails miserably. I repeated that myself. >>
I guess it is true, miserable people like it when others are miserable too. I fail to see what James Taylor did wrong, he saw a company that he wanted to buy, he has / had no loyality to the current employees nor should he. As far as Taylor is concerned, a "new broom sweeps clean" if the old owner didn't have a retention provision in the sale contract. I don't read anyone critizising the former owners of ANACS for not looking out for the employees and if there was a loyality issue, that is where it was.
If I were Anderson Press, I would have made it a stipulation of the deal that the employees be treated fairly and with great care during the transition. ANACS was up and running and, I assume, in a positive cash flow position. Why rush the deal? This could have been handled with much more grace, which would have given the "new, new" ANACS a better reputation out the blocks.
<< <i>I wish some of you moaners and groaners could sit in the employer's chair for once and see what it's like. Generally, businesses that are doing well do not just pull up stakes with no notice and move across the country. I'm sure there were some very difficult issues and decisions present that the employees were not burdened with, while the owners/senior management had many a sleepless night. >>
Yeah right. They had the nads to use em secretly cuz they needed em, but when the time came they chit all over them n dumped em.
<< <i>What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer.
Russ, NCNE >>
Well said.
<< <i>And I hope James Taylor fails miserably. I repeated that myself. >>
I guess it is true, miserable people like it when others are miserable too. I fail to see what James Taylor did wrong, he saw a company that he wanted to buy, he has / had no loyality to the current employees nor should he. As far as Taylor is concerned, a "new broom sweeps clean" if the old owner didn't have a retention provision in the sale contract. I don't read anyone critizising the former owners of ANACS for not looking out for the employees and if there was a loyality issue, that is where it was. >>
If you see nothing wrong, you need to take a long hard look at yourself.
<< <i> So, lets see, this fine moral upstanding example of the coin world buys a company and all the employees lose their jobs AND he raids the company he was still employeed at, and at reduced wages, to further his greedy needs. I think the finger is in the right direction. Middle finger in the air. >>
Do you know for a fact that people have left ICG to go work for ANACS at lower wages ? Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor left ICG ? Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor bought ANACS ? >>
Read the threads. The answers are there. I'm not going to go find them for you. >>
We are far from having all the answers. For example, if true, why would ICG employees leave ICG to go work for ANACS at reduced wages ? Answer that, WITH FACTS please. >>
Read the threads. The answers are there. I'm not going to go find them for you. >>
If Taylor is such a bad person as you claim, why would people leave a company he used to run to go work for him again, and at a reduced salary to boot ! Your contentions don't add up. Like I said, we need to know the facts first, before fingers are pointed.
dcarr, you will beat your head against the wall arguing with kboneheader. There are always two sides to the story, and it is obvious that he is only interesting in attacking "the man" every time something like this comes up. Who created these jobs? Why are the workers entitled to keep their jobs regardless of how the business is performing? We don't have all of the facts, and only have one side of the story which is more emotional than factual. I don't know for a fact, but my best guess is that ANACS wasn't performing very well for its previous owner. Maybe the change in location and ownership will open opportunities for other people who are out of work to have jobs.
<< <i>dcarr, you will beat your head against the wall arguing with kboneheader. There are always two sides to the story, and it is obvious that he is only interesting in attacking "the man" every time something like this comes up. Who created these jobs? Why are the workers entitled to keep their jobs regardless of how the business is performing? We don't have all of the facts, and only have one side of the story which is more emotional than factual. I don't know for a fact, but my best guess is that ANACS wasn't performing very well for its previous owner. Maybe the change in location and ownership will open opportunities for other people who are out of work to have jobs. >>
If JT "fails miserably", even more nice people will be out of work.
Nonetheless, unless he has a rabbit up his sleeve, I am not optimistic.
Comments
<< <i>It's not just worker-bees who get canned. You might ask Stan O'Neal, who used to be El Jefe at Merrill Lynch about this, or look at recent articles re Citibank. A number of high profile Fortune 500 types have been given the ax for underperforming this year. >>
True, but the difference usually is that the higher profile types get a nice severance package "golden parachute".
JJ
That's worth repeating. Thank you, Russ.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>It's not just worker-bees who get canned. You might ask Stan O'Neal, who used to be El Jefe at Merrill Lynch about this, or look at recent articles re Citibank. A number of high profile Fortune 500 types have been given the ax for underperforming this year. >>
Let's hope the worker bee walked with 77MM like Chuck Prince or 48MM like O'Neal, not to mention running these enterprises into the ground while receiving over $20,000,000 per year doing it! PLEASE!!! WAKE UP!!! SMELL THE MANURE!!!
<< <i>It's not just worker-bees who get canned. You might ask Stan O'Neal, who used to be El Jefe at Merrill Lynch about this, or look at recent articles re Citibank. A number of high profile Fortune 500 types have been given the ax for underperforming this year. >>
Poor, poor guys. How will they survive on their golden parachutes?
Linky
<< <i> What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer.
That's worth repeating. Thank you, Russ. >>
And I hope James Taylor fails miserably. I repeated that myself.
will earn 70 cents a day and all the cardboard they can eat??????
TD
<< <i>What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer.
Russ, NCNE >>
Yes, the business seller is the one with all the cash now. It is up to them to give a final bonus to the employees that served them.
I once worked for a software company that was founded (and owned) entirely by the company's president. When he sold the company to Kodak, some people were laid off. But he gave EVERYONE a bonus that was pro-rated based upon the time each person had spent working for the company. That was a very fair handling of the situation. No one expected (or received) a bonus or severance package from the buyer.
<< <i>Was JT working for ICG up to the time that he purchased ANACS? >>
Is there some litigation in the midst?
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>Was JT working for ICG up to the time that he purchased ANACS? >>
I don't know. I do know that he was no longer at the ICG offices as of December 19. And he was "not available" when I called the ICG offices a couple times in November. But that doesn't really mean anything.
<< <i>What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer. >>
That is a good point.
Whenever we were hired to work on a hotel, shopping center or whatever we knew without anyone telling us that when the job was done so were we.
It seems that these construction jobs always were completed for grand opening just before Christmas.
We just learned to live with that fact and after enjoying a normal Merry Christmas and Happy New Year set about getting hired on to a new project that would inevitably finish up next Christmas.
I never felt the company did anything wrong and usually wound up working for the same company over and over with the same future outlook and much the same results employmentwise.
When I eventually opened my own business I discovered the flip side of this situation.
Many times people I was grooming for leadership roles or who were already in that role responded to offers of a better situation at one of my competitors and left with no concern for any effect they had on my plans or any impact their leaving would have.
This is America where all parties are free to pursue their dreams and ambitions as they see fit so long as they do nothing illegal.
ANACS moved from Colorado Springs to Ohio with, I'm sure, some disappointed employees being either uprooted or layed off.
After a short period in Ohio they were abruptly sold again and moved to Austin with the same scenario.
Now it's happened again and suddenly James Taylor becomes Scrooge.
He purchased the company and so it is his to with as suits him best.
He can move it to Alaska if he so desires and it is none of my concern.
The only thing that is of concern to me is whether or not he will offer the hobby a viable product.
If he does no one will care about this human drama a year from now.
And if he doesn't ANACS will be sold again with people being dismissed from their jobs and the cycle starts all over again with someone else playing the Grinch.
As Walter Cronkite used to say"and that's the way it is". Dave W
David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com
Yes, the business seller is the one with all the cash now. It is up to them to give a final bonus to the employees that served them.
Assuming there's no contractual obligation between the company and the employee, and that this is just about "doing the right thing"? Yes, it's up to the seller, but not because he has the cash. It's up to the seller because he is the one that had the relationship with the employees.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Having been a construction electrician for a good portion of my life layoffs were a fact of life that I and all others like me accepted as part of the game.
Whenever we were hired to work on a hotel, shopping center or whatever we knew without anyone telling us that when the job was done so were we.
It seems that these construction jobs always were completed for grand opening just before Christmas.
We just learned to live with that fact and after enjoying a normal Merry Christmas and Happy New Year set about getting hired on to a new project that would inevitably finish up next Christmas.
I never felt the company did anything wrong and usually wound up working for the same company over and over with the same future outlook and much the same results employmentwise.
When I eventually opened my own business I discovered the flip side of this situation.
Many times people I was grooming for leadership roles or who were already in that role responded to offers of a better situation at one of my competitors and left with no concern for any effect they had on my plans or any impact their leaving would have.
This is America where all parties are free to pursue their dreams and ambitions as they see fit so long as they do nothing illegal.
ANACS moved from Colorado Springs to Ohio with, I'm sure, some disappointed employees being either uprooted or layed off.
After a short period in Ohio they were abruptly sold again and moved to Austin with the same scenario.
Now it's happened again and suddenly James Taylor becomes Scrooge.
He purchased the company and so it is his to with as suits him best.
He can move it to Alaska if he so desires and it is none of my concern.
The only thing that is of concern to me is whether or not he will offer the hobby a viable product.
If he does no one will care about this human drama a year from now.
And if he doesn't ANACS will be sold again with people being dismissed from their jobs and the cycle starts all over again with someone else playing the Grinch.
As Walter Cronkite used to say"and that's the way it is". Dave W
David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com >>
You can sugar coat this all you wish and it still don't make it right.
<< <i>What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer.
Russ, NCNE >>
I agree. I have sold two companies in the past and I have always made an effort to see that our employees were given a fair deal. In one transaction I negotiated continued employment for a period of 90 days, and in the other I offered a fair severance package for all employees who continued employment through to the sales date. I also contracted the services of an employment agency to assist all employees with procuring future employment.
Although it is easy to blame JT, he was not the employer. The blame rests solely with the employer.
It's not just worker-bees who get canned. You might ask Stan O'Neal, who used to be El Jefe at Merrill Lynch about this, or look at recent articles re Citibank. A number of high profile Fortune 500 types have been given the ax for underperforming this year. >>
Yep, poor Bob Nardelli walked away with a measly $165000000 from Home Depot and had to settle with a job at Chrysler. Maybe after he rapes the automaker he'd like a career in running a TPG...
And it doesn't do any good to point fingers until you've thought long and hard about where to point.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The absence of retention incentives indicates that ANACS was a marginal business at best.
Anyone have any inside info about the selling price, whether receivables were included, and whether buyer assumed liabilities like ANACS' authenticity guarantee? Wouldn't it be interesting if there wasn't much cash involved, just seller keeping pre-closing receivables, and buyer assuming liabilities? I could see that. That would help explain what little we know about the employee situation.
<< <i>The best executives can find a happy medium, IMO -- first and foremost guiding the business and making tough decisions when they have to, but also recognizing that up to some point, not screwing your workers and earning their trust *is* good business. The best executives also recognize that it's not worth engineering a good quarter by screwing the company's longer-term future.
What does that have to do with JT and the ANACS debacle? Maybe not much and maybe a lot. Just consider these to be general brain-droppings. It's easy for the peasants to grab pitchforks and quote Marx, and it's also easy to justify any and all heartless business moves that are perceived as good for the bottom line. It's sometimes harder to see both sides. >>
Exactly what I was saying, and we don't know all of the facts.
Last Friday ANACS has their 25, 30 whatever number of employees.
This Friday, there are none and the equipment is on a Mayflower van.
Wednesday, the new, new ANACS will be fully operational.
This kind of "rising from the dead in 3 days" hasn't happened in 2000 years.
Joe
<< <i>You can sugar coat this all you wish and it still don't make it right.
And it doesn't do any good to point fingers until you've thought long and hard about where to point. >>
So, lets see, this fine moral upstanding example of the coin world buys a company and all the employees lose their jobs AND he raids the company he was still employeed at, and at reduced wages, to further his greedy needs. I think the finger is in the right direction. Middle finger in the air.
<< <i>Last Friday ANACS has their 25, 30 whatever number of employees.
This Friday, there are none and the equipment is on a Mayflower van. >>
Sounds like the numismatic version of the Baltimore Colts.
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<< <i>Having been a construction electrician for a good portion of my life layoffs were a fact of life that I and all others like me accepted as part of the game.
*snip*
He can move it to Alaska if he so desires and it is none of my concern.
The only thing that is of concern to me is whether or not he will offer the hobby a viable product.
If he does no one will care about this human drama a year from now.
And if he doesn't ANACS will be sold again with people being dismissed from their jobs and the cycle starts all over again with someone else playing the Grinch.
As Walter Cronkite used to say"and that's the way it is". Dave W
David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com >>
You can sugar coat this all you wish and it still don't make it right. >>
Unfortunately no business model in the capitalist system makes any provisions for those workers less fortunate who did not have the good fortune to have wealthy parents or the ability, education, and luck to make themselves wealthy. They still have kids to feed, mortgages to pay, and sadly some of them may indeed live from paycheck to paycheck. When you care about your fellow man, which few of us do, it's not so easy to say "thats just the way it is". Wonder how easy for some of those folks to say "that's the way it is" to their kids, especially at this time of the year...
John
<< <i>
<< <i>What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer.
Russ, NCNE >>
Yes, the business seller is the one with all the cash now. It is up to them to give a final bonus to the employees that served them.
I once worked for a software company that was founded (and owned) entirely by the company's president. When he sold the company to Kodak, some people were laid off. But he gave EVERYONE a bonus that was pro-rated based upon the time each person had spent working for the company. That was a very fair handling of the situation. No one expected (or received) a bonus or severance package from the buyer. >>
The last company I worked for went thru about 5-6 different owners over a 14 1/2 year period. They all had one thing in common; they paid what was due but not one cent more. When I was let go at the end of that 14 1/2 year period I didn't receive even one cent in severance. They also sent me a letter a few weeks after I left demanding that I immediately repay a business expense cash advance of a little over $100 that was apparently outstanding. Business (sales) for me personally had been good for all but about the last 9 months I worked there. Fundamental changes in the way the auto companies bought media finally did me in. I wasn't surprised that they decided to close my office and let me go. I had been expecting it for a few months. What really got me was the way I was treated at the end. (I believe they also tried to dispute my unemployment insurance application, but their attempt was immediately turned down since I had kept excellent written records and it was very obvious that I had been fired and had not resigned.) I never spoke to anyone in that company's management again.
<< <i>
<< <i><< Perhaps the senior folks from (the old) ANACS can explore acquisition of PCI? >>
You talkin' 'bout me?
LOL
TD, Senior Authenticator ANACS, 1980-1984 (B.C.) >>
Shouldn't that be B.S (Before Slabs) >>
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And it doesn't do any good to point fingers until you've thought long and hard about where to point. >>
So, lets see, this fine moral upstanding example of the coin world buys a company and all the employees lose their jobs AND he raids the company he was still employeed at, and at reduced wages, to further his greedy needs. I think the finger is in the right direction. Middle finger in the air.
Well, I have to admit the analysis is improving. Still, it's not like JT forced ICG's employees to jump ship for low salaries. Somehow, it had to be a good deal for them or they wouldn't have done it. Right?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
<< <i>You can sugar coat this all you wish and it still don't make it right.
And it doesn't do any good to point fingers until you've thought long and hard about where to point. >>
So, lets see, this fine moral upstanding example of the coin world buys a company and all the employees lose their jobs AND he raids the company he was still employeed at, and at reduced wages, to further his greedy needs. I think the finger is in the right direction. Middle finger in the air. >>
Do you know for a fact that people have left ICG to go work for ANACS at lower wages ?
Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor left ICG ?
Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor bought ANACS ?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>You can sugar coat this all you wish and it still don't make it right.
And it doesn't do any good to point fingers until you've thought long and hard about where to point. >>
So, lets see, this fine moral upstanding example of the coin world buys a company and all the employees lose their jobs AND he raids the company he was still employeed at, and at reduced wages, to further his greedy needs. I think the finger is in the right direction. Middle finger in the air. >>
Do you know for a fact that people have left ICG to go work for ANACS at lower wages ?
Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor left ICG ?
Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor bought ANACS ? >>
Read the threads. The answers are there. I'm not going to go find them for you.
Do you know for a fact that people have left ICG to go work for ANACS at lower wages ?
Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor left ICG ?
Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor bought ANACS ? >>
Fact is, we don't have all the facts, and I doubt the employees do either.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>You can sugar coat this all you wish and it still don't make it right.
And it doesn't do any good to point fingers until you've thought long and hard about where to point. >>
So, lets see, this fine moral upstanding example of the coin world buys a company and all the employees lose their jobs AND he raids the company he was still employeed at, and at reduced wages, to further his greedy needs. I think the finger is in the right direction. Middle finger in the air. >>
Do you know for a fact that people have left ICG to go work for ANACS at lower wages ?
Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor left ICG ?
Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor bought ANACS ? >>
Read the threads. The answers are there. I'm not going to go find them for you. >>
We are far from having all the answers. For example, if true, why would ICG employees leave ICG to go work for ANACS at reduced wages ? Answer that, WITH FACTS please.
moved to Colorado to re-hire the ICG people at their old salary.
I could be mistaken though.
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We now know that he was lying about that, when it came to Vietnam anyway. We were winning militarily, but that's not what he said. More than anyone else, he talked the US into "losing" in Vietnam.
Now, if he had been honest and said, "that's the way I say it is", that would have been OK, and honest.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
CG
<< <i>Huh. I read that ICG was in trouble, reducing salaries and Taylor failed to buy them out. So he bought ANACS to protect them, fired everyone there, then
moved to Colorado to re-hire the ICG people at their old salary.
I could be mistaken though. >>
Something along those lines is possible, although I've personally not heard talk of ICG being in any trouble. The only FACT I have at this point is that, as of December 19, Kiefer, Martin, DeFelice (and others) were present and working at the ICG offices. And the ICG web page still lists the same grading team they had previously.
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<< <i>
<< <i>You can sugar coat this all you wish and it still don't make it right.
And it doesn't do any good to point fingers until you've thought long and hard about where to point. >>
So, lets see, this fine moral upstanding example of the coin world buys a company and all the employees lose their jobs AND he raids the company he was still employeed at, and at reduced wages, to further his greedy needs. I think the finger is in the right direction. Middle finger in the air. >>
Do you know for a fact that people have left ICG to go work for ANACS at lower wages ?
Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor left ICG ?
Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor bought ANACS ? >>
Read the threads. The answers are there. I'm not going to go find them for you. >>
We are far from having all the answers. For example, if true, why would ICG employees leave ICG to go work for ANACS at reduced wages ? Answer that, WITH FACTS please. >>
Read the threads. The answers are there. I'm not going to go find them for you.
<< <i>What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer.
Russ, NCNE >>
Well said.
<< <i>And I hope James Taylor fails miserably. I repeated that myself. >>
I guess it is true, miserable people like it when others are miserable too. I fail to see what James Taylor did wrong, he saw a company that he wanted to buy, he has / had no loyality to the current employees nor should he. As far as Taylor is concerned, a "new broom sweeps clean" if the old owner didn't have a retention provision in the sale contract. I don't read anyone critizising the former owners of ANACS for not looking out for the employees and if there was a loyality issue, that is where it was.
If I were Anderson Press, I would have made it a stipulation of the deal that the employees be treated fairly and with great care during the transition. ANACS was up and running and, I assume, in a positive cash flow position. Why rush the deal? This could have been handled with much more grace, which would have given the "new, new" ANACS a better reputation out the blocks.
<< <i>I wish some of you moaners and groaners could sit in the employer's chair for once and see what it's like. Generally, businesses that are doing well do not just pull up stakes with no notice and move across the country. I'm sure there were some very difficult issues and decisions present that the employees were not burdened with, while the owners/senior management had many a sleepless night. >>
Yeah right. They had the nads to use em secretly cuz they needed em, but when the time came they chit all over them n dumped em.
<< <i>
<< <i>What happened to the employees sucks, but those blaming James Taylor are way off base. It is up to the business seller to make provisions for the staff, NOT the buyer.
Russ, NCNE >>
Well said.
<< <i>And I hope James Taylor fails miserably. I repeated that myself. >>
I guess it is true, miserable people like it when others are miserable too. I fail to see what James Taylor did wrong, he saw a company that he wanted to buy, he has / had no loyality to the current employees nor should he. As far as Taylor is concerned, a "new broom sweeps clean" if the old owner didn't have a retention provision in the sale contract. I don't read anyone critizising the former owners of ANACS for not looking out for the employees and if there was a loyality issue, that is where it was.
If you see nothing wrong, you need to take a long hard look at yourself.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
So, lets see, this fine moral upstanding example of the coin world buys a company and all the employees lose their jobs AND he raids the company he was still employeed at, and at reduced wages, to further his greedy needs. I think the finger is in the right direction. Middle finger in the air. >>
Do you know for a fact that people have left ICG to go work for ANACS at lower wages ?
Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor left ICG ?
Do you know for a fact exactly how and when James Taylor bought ANACS ? >>
Read the threads. The answers are there. I'm not going to go find them for you. >>
We are far from having all the answers. For example, if true, why would ICG employees leave ICG to go work for ANACS at reduced wages ? Answer that, WITH FACTS please. >>
Read the threads. The answers are there. I'm not going to go find them for you. >>
If Taylor is such a bad person as you claim, why would people leave a company he used to run to go work for him again, and at a reduced salary to boot ! Your contentions don't add up. Like I said, we need to know the facts first, before fingers are pointed.
<< <i>dcarr, you will beat your head against the wall arguing with kboneheader. There are always two sides to the story, and it is obvious that he is only interesting in attacking "the man" every time something like this comes up. Who created these jobs? Why are the workers entitled to keep their jobs regardless of how the business is performing? We don't have all of the facts, and only have one side of the story which is more emotional than factual. I don't know for a fact, but my best guess is that ANACS wasn't performing very well for its previous owner. Maybe the change in location and ownership will open opportunities for other people who are out of work to have jobs. >>
If JT "fails miserably", even more nice people will be out of work.
Nonetheless, unless he has a rabbit up his sleeve, I am not optimistic.
I am confident that he has more than just a rabbit up his sleeve.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Nonetheless, unless he has a rabbit up his sleeve, I am not optimistic.
I am confident that he has more than just a rabbit up his sleeve. >>
Two rabbits?
<< <i>When have facts ever been required to argue a topic on this forum?