Not a good start for the PQ "sticker".

Shamika

And yes, they're the same coin (see the Heritage link below).

MS63 at Heritage sale.







MS64 at Albanese with a sticker for "PQ".

jdimmick

Looks to be a money raket in the making

dizzyfoxx

The sticker is what it is, a sticker. But it is a pretty shade of green.

Connecticoin

Looks like smoeone lightened it up with MS-70, and it left some spots!

And they still got an upgrade and a CAC blessing!

AUandAG

I'm sorry, but I just have not been able to digest this CACA cr*p.
bob

jdimmick

The first and only CAC coin I have seen in hand sucked!!,

jim

roadrunner

This only shows that the TPG grading is variable.

Cac can only sticker the holder the coin resides in. If the coin were undergraded as a 63, it could still be solid as a 64 and get stickers in both cases. In fact I had a gem 1882 seated half that NGC botched the first time in and graded MS65. The second time in they botched in again, grading it MS67. While it may have not been worthy of a CAC sticker in 67, it would have been in grades 65 and 66. CAC can't do anything about old holders either than become upgrades. CAC can only grade the coin as holdered. When a true dog finally shows up in a CAC holder, that will be news. Personally I don't think it will happend any time soon.

roadrunner

Barry

Now we need another company to sticker the CAC sticker.

291fifth

So much for sticker credibility.

airplanenut

To be fair, both pictures really are terrible. I wouldn't make a judgment call on the coin until I saw it in hand or a picture that I considered half decent...

Mercury10c

I read, in CW I think, that at the first show CAC attended, they stickered over 80% of the coins submitted.
And interestingly, they will be making a market in CACed coins. Sounds like a big fat money making scam
to me.
Has anyone determined yet what the average premium is for a CACed coin? Or is it too early to tell.

pharmer

Nice work, Shamika.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

<< <i>So much for sticker credibility. >>



WHat makes you say that? Just because a coin was upgraded doesn't mean it's misgraded in it's current holder. It's very possible that it belongs in a 64 holder, and is solid for the grade.

Sunnywood

So ?? Maybe the coin is solid for the 64 grade. All that proves is that the coin was undergraded the first time around. The sticker just means that CAC agrees with PCGS now. So where is the problem in that?

kryptonitecomics

<< <i>I read, in CW I think, that at the first show CAC attended, they stickered over 80% of the coins submitted.
And interestingly, they will be making a market in CACed coins. Sounds like a big fat money making scam
to me.
Has anyone determined yet what the average premium is for a CACed coin? Or is it too early to tell. >>



If someone told me they would give me a free assessment at a show....I wouldn't bring 20 dogs....I would bring my 20 best so it's no suprise so many stickers were handed out then

ricko

The debate now enters it's second stage.... bring on the popcorn. Cheers, RickO

originalisbest

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Shamika

<< <i>If the coin were undergraded as a 63, it could still be solid as a 64 and get stickers in both cases. >>

Unfortunately, the coin is barely a 63 in my opinion. When this same coin showed up in a 64 slab some months ago (on eBay), I was shocked. And now it gets "the sticker"???



<< <i>Looks like smoeone lightened it up with MS-70, and it left some spots! >>

No MS-70 has been used. The coin looks exactly the same as it did in the 63 slab. Look at the close-up images from the Heritage sale.

lordmarcovan

I number myself with those who don't fully understand the need for this CAC thing, but I wish 'em well. Gotta say their little hologram sticker is cute. Classier than I expected.

Tonelover

It probably got the sticker because all those specks and spots are a testament to the originality.

jmski52

Shamika - good work. Yep, solid for the grade, whatever that might mean. I can't say it too many times - conflict of interest. Collectors will lose on the front end, every time.

When you have the same dealers making a market in the same coins over and over, while dictating the grading structure at the same time, just what do you suppose will happen to the pricing structure?

TPGs were justified by the proposition that they would take away all of the uncertainty in the market and would promote sight-unseen (oxymoron) trading. It didn't work the first time; why would anyone expect it to work now, especially with another subjective variable thrown into the equation? pffft.

Cgb

This whole CAC sticker craziness really rubs me the wrong way. Maybe we should have stickers to sticker the stickers on our slabs.

DieClash

<< <i>The debate now enters it's second stage.... bring on the popcorn. Cheers, RickO >>

messydesk

Here's a better picture of the obverse from Heritage's site that I feel not only shows the coin in the most accurate light of the three pictures, but also shows that some defects have been hidden, intentionally or accidentally, from the CACked coin. Someone will be rather disappointed in the coin received from Albanese if they go only by his picture.

Shamika

<< <i>The sticker just means that CAC agrees with PCGS now. So where is the problem in that? >>

Let's put aside whether or not the coin should have been upgraded. According to Albernese, this coin is "CAC stickered for premium quality". So the coin is more than solid for the grade, it's now a shot 65???

commoncents05

I thought the sticker meant solid for the grade, not PQ.

-Paul

Shamika

I'll also add that this coin has been kicked around in several inventories for quite some time if that means anything.

EagleEye

I'm sure there will be many such posts in the future.

The solution is simple - sell it to the CAC market-makers and watch it show up in the next aucion without the sticker. I'm sure they'll buy in all their mistakes, as well as all the others they sticker. This is the good thing about this program, IMO. They are labeling the coins they want. Sell it to them.

TPG's are distant from the market. They are not market-makers, by design. This sticker thing IS a market-making scheme. So use it to your advantage. Don't whine about it.

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>I'll also add that this coin has been kicked around in several inventories for quite some time if that means anything. >>



I think that means it hasn't found a happy home, yet. Coins get to be like ping pong balls. Back and forth over the net. A paddle here,
a paddle there.

jdimmick

I am not an expert in Buff's, but I venture to say based on the photo, its not a coin Id expect to see a CAC sticker on.
The gold piece I saw earlier this week, may have been technically a 63, but it was a turd!

kryptonitecomics

<< <i>I thought the sticker meant solid for the grade, not PQ.

-Paul >>



That is my understanding as well.......he's a little more of my two cents for those that care to read on....

I have no agenda and especially have no affiliation with CAC since I am an extremely small fish as a collector and a non existant fish as far as a coin dealer but......

I looked at the images objectively.....I think looked at every other MS63 1924-S in the Heritage Archive.....and in my opnion it is clear that this is the best of the lot especially considering the reverse strike. I don't believe for one second it's a borderline MS62/63 as Shamika eluded too and I have never had a beef with him and still don't. I also don't know that he has an agenda against CAC...I tend to think he doesn't......

All I know is that as far as luster, strike, Marks etc for this date and MM......I think the coin deserved an upgrade. If folks have PQ 62's that look like that coin I am a buyer.....let's not let the CAC cloud the discussion......you either believe the coin is a 64 or you don't.......PCGS thought it was the second time around and CAC agreed it was at least a Solid MS64........period.

Shamika

<< <i>I don't believe for one second it's a borderline MS62/63 as Shamika eluded too and I have never had a beef with him and still don't. I also don't know that he has an agenda against CAC...I tend to think he doesn't...... >>


Daniel - I've been an avid Buffalo nickel collector for 20+ years and I would never consider this coin anything more than a 63. In fact, when it first showed up at Long Beach back in 2005, I passed on it even though I was looking to upgrade to a nice 63 or 64. And I'm not anti-CAC or Albanese. CAC is a reasonable idea in my opinion and Albanese is a solid dealer.

And don't consider this a "beef" between us. You're still an okay guy in my book.

kryptonitecomics

<< <i>

<< <i>I don't believe for one second it's a borderline MS62/63 as Shamika eluded too and I have never had a beef with him and still don't. I also don't know that he has an agenda against CAC...I tend to think he doesn't...... >>


Daniel - I've been an avid Buffalo nickel collector for 20+ years and I would never consider this coin anything more than a 63. In fact, when it first showed up at Long Beach back in 2005, I passed on it even though I was looking to upgrade to a nice 63 or 64. And I'm not anti-CAC or Albanese. CAC is a reasonable idea in my opinion and Albanese is a solid dealer.

And don't consider this a "beef" between us. You're still an okay guy in my book. >>




Fair enough....in that case you can still call me Shane

Shamika

AKA Shane

cmerlo1

Is it just me, or does the CAC sticker look photoshopped on there?

jom

OK, so who is grading the "graders"? For that matter who grades the graders who grade the graders?

jom

poorguy

Nice spots.

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>TPG's are distant from the market. They are not market-makers, by design. This sticker thing IS a market-making scheme. So use it to your advantage. Don't whine about it. >>

Now where's the fun in that?

tradedollarnut

I still say that grading buffalo nickels is like throwing darts. We know that PCGS got the grade wrong at least once - other than that, no solid conclusions can be drawn from images.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

<< <i>

<< <i>If the coin were undergraded as a 63, it could still be solid as a 64 and get stickers in both cases. >>

Unfortunately, the coin is barely a 63 in my opinion. When this same coin showed up in a 64 slab some months ago (on eBay), I was shocked. And now it gets "the sticker"???



<< <i>Looks like smoeone lightened it up with MS-70, and it left some spots! >>

No MS-70 has been used. The coin looks exactly the same as it did in the 63 slab. Look at the close-up images from the Heritage sale. >>



Unfortunately, I'm going to trust the professionals that evaluated the coin in hand over your opinion based on a photo. Not that the professionals are always right, but in this case I think they are.

Gi

<< <i>Now we need another company to sticker the CAC sticker. >>

Elcontador

Looks like smoeone lightened it up with MS-70, and it left some spots!

No, it look like someone took a leak on the coin and let it dry. I've seen a number of 24 S Buff in varying grades; I've yet to find one that I considered to be attractive for whatever grade it was assigned.

Shamika

<< <i>Unfortunately, I'm going to trust the professionals that evaluated the coin in hand over your opinion based on a photo. Not that the professionals are always right, but in this case I think they are. >>

Are you saying the "professionals" are right in that the coin is a 63 or that they're right in that it's a 64?

Deadhorse

<< <i>Looks to be a money racket in the making >>



Was there ever any doubt in the first place?

19Lyds

For Five Thousand bucks those spots would kinda bug me!

Whatever!!!!

Myqqy

Nice spots.

Yea, verily...

direwolf1972

<< <i>Now we need another company to sticker the CAC sticker. >>



I say we go back about a hundred years and chop mark our PCGS, NGC, etc... slabs lightly but other higher authorities that "know better" than the original grading company.

At least chop marks are more pleasing to the eye than those stickers.... plus hard to remove or add a chop mark since they are a little more intricate.

Take that back... then we'd get all our "approved" items from china.

Maybe not such a good idea. But just a thought late at night.

dorkkarl

stickers are stupid. that's all you need to know

K S

Barberman55

I think the CAC stickered coins have a market for collectors who haven't the foggiest notion of what a PQ coin is. Obviously, the majority of folks who brought their coins to be stickered at Coinfest know quality, and hence the 80% success ratio with getting the CAC sticker on their coin. Granted, the service was being offered free to these people at Coinfest, but if it weren't, would it really be necessary for these same people to pay a fee to have these coins CAC stickered. Probably not, they already have a good idea of what PQ is, within a given grade. I don't think that it's necessary to have to pay someone to verify what you already know.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Looks like smoeone lightened it up with MS-70, and it left some spots!

No, it look like someone took a leak on the coin and let it dry. I've seen a number of 24 S Buff in varying grades; I've yet to find one that I considered to be attractive for whatever grade it was assigned. >>



Actually it looks like smoeone squeezed one nickel till the buffalo chit and smoe of it hit THAT nickel.

Shamika

<< <i>I think the CAC stickered coins have a market for collectors who haven't the foggiest notion of what a PQ coin is. >>

Based on this coin, they'll still be clueless as to what PQ is.