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PSA's pack graders are clueless!
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Posts: 610
I submitted seven "star" cello packs to PSA for grading on September 9th. One was pulled directly from a sealed cello box, and the other six were bought from six different sellers. All seven came back as "altered".
First of all, how the heck do you alter a cello pack without it being visible to the naked eye??? Yeah, you can open the back and try reseal the pack, but it's impossible to do this without either glue being visible or tearing the pack.
Second, who the heck would open a pack and then INSERT star cards??? Don't people usually tamper with packs to remove star cards?
Third, what are the odds that six packs from six different sellers would ALL be "altered". One or two, maybe, but all six????
What really sucks is that now that GAI appears to be kaput, PSA will be the only pack grader left on the market. Given that their pack graders appear to be pretty clueless (I'm guessing that I'm both older and a more experienced collector than most of them), this is not a good thing.
First of all, how the heck do you alter a cello pack without it being visible to the naked eye??? Yeah, you can open the back and try reseal the pack, but it's impossible to do this without either glue being visible or tearing the pack.
Second, who the heck would open a pack and then INSERT star cards??? Don't people usually tamper with packs to remove star cards?
Third, what are the odds that six packs from six different sellers would ALL be "altered". One or two, maybe, but all six????
What really sucks is that now that GAI appears to be kaput, PSA will be the only pack grader left on the market. Given that their pack graders appear to be pretty clueless (I'm guessing that I'm both older and a more experienced collector than most of them), this is not a good thing.
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nO BASHING
that sucks about the cellos-esp from 6 diff places,maybe stupid people were grading that day,idcall em up and ask em exactly how they were altered????
<< <i>No one ever asked me to hide a gun before. I have to admit, it turned me on. >>
LOL !!!!
chaz
<< <i>ha-i like yer 2nd video ted-guy didnt put up a whole lot of resistance from 1st punch of his beatdown did he lmao!!!!!!i like it
that sucks about the cellos-esp from 6 diff places,maybe stupid people were grading that day,idcall em up and ask em exactly how they were altered???? >>
I was under the impression that all packs are sent out to Steve Hart .
Steve gives them the thumbs up or thumbs down, then the packs are returned to PSA where a grader then assigns a grade to the pack
Easy way to catch PSA. Buy from Steve Hart and submit. Glad i could help.
That's what you get for trying to pull a fast one on PSA and they thank you for your money.
Edited to add:
<< <i>Who the heck is Steve Hart? >>
Yeah, I call BS on this. Care to share your submission results?
I examine everything I buy pretty damn carefully....if I didn't think the packs were fine I wouldn't have submitted them for grading.
And is Steve Hart so famous that everyone should know who he is? I've been collecting since 1977 (i.e. 31 years), and I have never heard of him....
<< <i>Actually,
I examine everything I buy pretty damn carefully....if I didn't think the packs were fine I wouldn't have submitted them for grading. >>
Then you shouldn't mind providing your submission number and zip code, in addition to scans of the packs in question. A lot here will know if the packs appear to have been tampered.
<< <i>And is Steve Hart so famous that everyone should know who he is? I've been collecting since 1977 (i.e. 31 years), and I have never heard of him.... >>
If you are into unopened material, yes, you should know who he is. Heck, I rarely mess with unopened items and knew of him prior to joining the boards. If you haven't heard of him until now, I suggest that you do some research ASAP.
I suggest you change your name and address before submitting to PSA again. You are most definitely on the "your doomed forever" list which is posted twice yearly at PSA headquarters
"If I ever decided to do a book, I've already got the title-The Bases Were Loaded and So Was I"-Jim Fregosi
I dropped off some sealed packs at a show in NY. 60 days later not only were they returned to me 'altered", the were returned OPENED!
More total BS.
Since you are a "Master Collector", why don't you enlighten the rest of us as to who Steve Hart is....I did a Google search and came up with absolutely nothing.
Treetop,
Not to worry....I'll never submit anything to PSA again anyway!
link
<< <i>Stown,
Since you are a "Master Collector", why don't you enlighten the rest of us as to who Steve Hart is....I did a Google search and came up with absolutely nothing.
Treetop,
Not to worry....I'll never submit anything to PSA again anyway! >>
First try I Googled "Steve Hart" baseball cards, and his website is at the top of the list. That was a tough one to figure out.
-
<< <i>Stown,
Since you are a "Master Collector", why don't you enlighten the rest of us as to who Steve Hart is....I did a Google search and came up with absolutely nothing. >>
Steve Hart owns Baseball Card Exchange and he authenticates unopened material for PSA. Those are some pretty strong accusations against PSA and all Stown is asking you to do is post the submission results on the boards to back up those claims. Just copy and past the results from the email that PSA sent you.
By sending packs outside of PSA headquarters, there is a very real threat of compromise. Suppose I send a '52 Topps pack out, and the authenticator believes it's legit, TAKES THE PACK FOR HIMSELF, then substitutes a searched pack in its place and calls the searched pack legit, too? Would PSA even know what happened?
If PSA really sends these packs out of their hands for any length of time, then no way in heck will I ever submit a pack to them or buy one graded by them.
That said, can anybody answer my original question of how a cello pack could be altered without it being visible to the naked eye?
<< <i>PSA's pack graders are clueless! >>
Hmmmm...
Well, let's start with - a newbie would never come on a PSA board and make such a sweeping generalization.
Quite frankly - I find it hard to take seriously anyone new to the boards who would do this.
You're the second person this week to be pulling - no wait - yanking on my leg and I'm too old for that.
Now you've gone and done it!
I have a digustingly disfiguring limp!
<< <i>Thanks for the info!
That said, can anybody answer my original question of how a cello pack could be altered without it being visible to the naked eye? >>
Actually theres quite a few ways. I dont care to list them as it would aid future scams. Honestly resealing cello and wax is too easy. Some people make a living on it...
If you look around for Mark Murphy aka BBCKid he sells a book with tips on what to look for. Corners, folds et cetera.
07245777 1968 TOPPS BASEBALL CELLO PACK 4th SERIES Not Holdered, Altered
07245778 1968 TOPPS BASEBALL CELLO PACK N/A Not Holdered, Altered
04788991 1981 TOPPS FOOTBALL CELLO PACK JOE MONTANA-TOP Not Holdered, Altered
04788992 1980 TOPPS BASEBALL CELLO PACK RICKEY HENDERSON-TOP Not Holdered, Altered
04788993 1985 TOPPS BASEBALL CELLO PACK KIRBY PUCKETT-TOP Not Holdered, Altered
04788994 1983 TOPPS BASEBALL CELLO PACK TONY GWYNN-TOP Not Holdered, Altered
04788995 1984 TOPPS FOOTBALL CELLO PACK ERIC DICKERSON-TOP Not Holdered, Altered
whether it is packs, singles or whatever, well........come on !
Millions and millions of dollars at stake, not to mention the liability and they are going to throw it all
away for 5 or 6 packs of unopened sportscards? Let's try to be a little realistic here.
This is not to say, however, that they don't make mistakes, we all know they do, after all they
are like everyone else, only humans.
I don't think PSA is perfect, on the contrary. It's all a judgement call, and if you were the grader
and would throw caution, you would err on the conservative side.
I'm not saying your packs are not what they are supposed to be, I am just talking about the
comment made about "QUESTIONABLE" people that do the grading.
<< <i>and the other six were bought from six different sellers >>
WOW, does Gary have 6 ebay sellers accounts now
If they are going to take my money and return my packs to me as "altered", the least they could do is explain why they think that they are altered!!
Your not going to ever get 100% accuracy as its all opinion and everyone has a different one. Plus humans make mistakes, even computers do too. Nothing is guaranteed 100% in life...uh well death and taxes are. lol
maybe they were all resealed lol, or maybe humberto the pack grader smoked to much crack on his lunch break !id ask em why-they have a phone-id give em a ring, i like to yell, it was my job!
<< <i>The problem is that customers don't pay them to "err on the conservative side". They pay them to be accurate!
If they are going to take my money and return my packs to me as "altered", the least they could do is explain why they think that they are altered!! >>
Mr Nameshimselfwithnumbers
Good point and I'm sure if you took the time to call - perhaps someone might explain it.
When it comes to cards, I believe they don't give a lot of explanation due to the time - it's a cost effectiveness thing IMO.
Now, if you pay enough - e.g. if you submit a Ruth sig which is gonna cost ya 150$ - they will give you a detailed reason for not giving it the ok.
Having said all this - I would hardly accuse them of being clueless just because they happen not to agree with you.
mike
Many submitters that send in subs later find a surface wrinkle or a missed dinged corner or a disagreement of centering.
What makes you so sure these packs are legit?
Its just too easy to open a pack and put a star on top and the pack will sell for 2-3x its value w/o the star showing.
How would heat or a steam iron help someone re-seal the pack?
They were bought from six different people, and the 1980 Henderson cello was pulled directly from a sealed cello box.
-Buy Murphy's book. It's about $8 and well worth it.
-Read up on packs a bit both here and on the ebay pack group before making accusations. They will mean a lot more.
-With all due respect, if you don't know who Steve Hart is you should slow down on the buying a bit before you get burned more. Take a look at his site, and shoot him an email or give him a call. He's a great guy and I've found him to be very willing to share his knowledge. Buy a cello pack from him and use it to see the differences between the legit one and yours.
-buying ungraded unopened material on ebay is like playing russian roullete with all the chambers full.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
id give em a call myself!i hope they didnt come from 6 diff of garys aliases on ebay
<< <i>SteveK,
They were bought from six different people, and the 1980 Henderson cello was pulled directly from a sealed cello box. >>
I hear ya and I read the posts - there are hundreds if not many thousands of scammers out there selling resealed packs as "unopened" - it seems clear to me that you bought from 6 of them. If they resealed a cello pack then they can and will reseal a cello box. A lot of people get ripped off by these scams - the key is to learn from it.
"You pulled the cello from a sealed cello box." Sealed? case? or box? As Im unaware of cello boxes being selaed or shrink wrapped. I could be wrong. Now I know a certain scammer shrink wraps boxes and sells them as legit but they didnt come from the factory that way. When you say sealed, do you mean the flap was closed?
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>A) Because at least one of them (the 1980 Henderson pack) I pulled directly from a sealed cello box.
they use crazy glue, just need a faint amount to seal cello pack, barely noticable....
and you think you just lucked out to find these "star" cello packs.....
resealers are realizing these bring more money from people gullable enough to buy them, so they are making more "star" packs...
you are actually contributing to the problem by buying these.....
My thoughts exactly. Here's a photo of an unopened 1980 Cello Box, and she ain't sealed: