Does anyone find it interesting that the OP claims to have been a collector and more knowledgeable than PSA's pack graders, yet he has never even heard of Steve Hart????
They were bought from six different people, and the 1980 Henderson cello was pulled directly from a sealed cello box. >>
Do you mean a sealed cello case? I don't believe Topps sealed their boxes in the 80's. If it was sealed, it would of had to have been sealed after 1980.
That said, can anybody answer my original question of how a cello pack could be altered without it being visible to the naked eye? >>
Replace altered with "made from scratch" and you have your answer. There has been a ton of home made 1968 cello packs on ebay the last 6 months from darlingdeals...
<< <i>Does anyone find it interesting that the OP claims to have been a collector and more knowledgeable than PSA's pack graders, yet he has never even heard of Steve Hart????
D'oh!! >>
Hence the reason I called BS.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Topps did not seal cello, wax, rack, anything in 1980. I think we have a fisher here, fishing for detailed ways to seal packs himself......just my observation....
I believe I was the victim of a resealed 1980 Topps "star" rack. About three or four years ago I bought one on Ebay with Mike Schmidt showing, and when I received the pack it sure looked legit to me, but I had never seen a tampered pack so I didn't really know how I would have detected any tampering.
Anyway, the pack contained only that Schmidt card, and it had a small stain on it that wasn't visible from the auction scan. The other cards were all basic commons.
Looking back, it was probably tampered with. It was a $19 dollar lesson, with the nineteen dollar price tag perhaps being the biggest clue of all.
Cellos are harder to reseal than wax. Rack packs are harder to reseal than cellos. Foil packs are harder to reseal than rack packs
With that being said, yes there are some real expert resealers out there that can open and reseal just about anything. Also the first factory shrink wrapped boxes I remember where the 1989 upper deck high#'s that went to retail stores after that 90 Leaf, unless you want to count the 1986 and 87 and 88 Fleer rack boxes (24 racks) that had clear shrink wrap, but each rack pack had 3 sealed packs inside each rack.Also the 89 U.D. high# had clear shrink wrap it was not until 1990 and 1991 that the companies put their Logos on the shrink wrap.
In the late 80's and early 90's the resealed cellos and rack packs with stars on top started to surface all over the place and I am sure others that have more knowledge than me can attest to this fact.
PS: Lee thanks for hiding that gun, can I have it back now?.
Unsure about the box but the 89 Fleer racks also had each "stack" wrapped in racks as well. Not all 89 Fleer racks though. From reading on here I think those were grocery racks. A pain to open on one case I got and the other....basically opened in my hands.
There are many bogus vintage cellos up for sale on ebay at any given time. It's definitely worth the effort to reseal a pack with a star card on top as that same pack will command up to a 100-500% premium depending on the player. One thing to look for is the pattern of the card stock on the top or side of the pack--if a star card is inserted on top of the pack the color or look of the cardboard will look a bit different than the rest of the pack. Also, the shape of the cards around the gum in the middle of the pack is hard to keep intact if it is opened. Also, the seal on back or the thickness of the cello wrapping are giveaways on some of the older vintage packs. The 1980 cellos are especially easy to alter, too, as they were one of the more loosely wrapped cellos of any year.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>The problem is that customers don't pay them to "err on the conservative side". They pay them to be accurate!
If they are going to take my money and return my packs to me as "altered", the least they could do is explain why they think that they are altered!! >>
I'm wondering why they don't do that myself. Same goes with "Evidence of trim" where they could show where they believe it was trimmed. This way the customer will know what to look for so they don't get burned again.
You must have been collecting in a vacuum these past 31 years if you are truly serious!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
What's up stown?? I see you stuck your foot-in-mouth again calling someone a liar errrr BS. Nice job of attacking a newbie, and stone you ain't far behind. I called a buddy of mine who is a writer (currently on strike) and a long time collector ( over 30 years) if he knew Steve Hart. I already knew the answer. No he doesn't. As he does not have the time, i find what he wants for him. I'm waiting for thread when it's someone with respect on this board to come across this problem. You going to call it BS then. Wise up
Way too many cellos out there with rookies like Rickey Henderson, Ozzie Smith, and Cal Ripken on top. If you think about it, with the 792 card Topps sets in that era, your odds of finding any given card on top of a cello pack would be 1:792. Considering that there are 24 packs in those boxes, finding any given card on top would be on average, a one in 33 box occurance. That's like one in three cases, yet every time I go on eBay, there are usually more 1980 cellos with Henderson on top than there are unopened boxes....doesn't add up.
Just an opinion, but I basically agree with the post that if they spend enough time examining a card, for the money you spend, they should tell you WHY its not legit. I dont know if the OP is legit in his story, but it seems like the old "PSA is king and never wrong" group comes out and attacks back all the time, I mean, what if the guy is telling the truth on everything? Then it would seem that the PSA pack grading is an actual problem and this info might provide useful at some point.
PSA doesnt state they will tell you why they reject it. They never "promised" that. You shouldnt imply expectations. Yeah it would be nice if they did, it would also be nice if people didnt murder.
BTW I have never submitted to PSA.
The OP very well could be legit but to come on their board and bash them when the OP doesnt state any info to back that they are real. Just says PSA is basically clueless. We'll he appears more clueless since he didnt know you could reseal packs. Collected for 30 years and didnt know that? My 11 year old knows that. Just because he has 7 packs doesnt mean they are real. Said he pulled the 1980 cello from a sealed box when Topps didnt have sealed cello boxes to my knowledge in 1980. The flap closed doesnt constitute a sealed box.
Not a PSA lover as I'll bash them when I feel its fair but in this case, with these facts I feel its unnecessary.
I mean, what if the guy is telling the truth on everything? Then it would seem that the PSA pack grading is an actual problem and this info might provide useful at some point.
Lighten up guys
I don't think anyone doubts he bought these cellos from different sellers, but there are so many bad cellos floating around that it's not surprising that many are bad. Personally, I'd rather have a company like PSA determining authenticity. The problem is not with PSA but with the resealers and pack factories out there. GAI "lightened up" with those bogus grocery cellos from the early 70s and the result is many fake packs hiding under the guise of authenticity.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
true grote-wax too on gai- my 75 topps pack had 3 76 topps cards in it and the back was opened lol- other one was ok-everybody ought to have one of those-no gai packs for me anymore!if they couldnt figure out the weight diff between a whole pack and 3 cards,thats pretty sad
<< <i>What's up stown?? I see you stuck your foot-in-mouth again calling someone a liar errrr BS. Nice job of attacking a newbie, and stone you ain't far behind. I called a buddy of mine who is a writer (currently on strike) and a long time collector ( over 30 years) if he knew Steve Hart. I already knew the answer. No he doesn't. As he does not have the time, i find what he wants for him. I'm waiting for thread when it's someone with respect on this board to come across this problem. You going to call it BS then. Wise up >>
Carew29
Newbies don't come on and make those kind of sweeping generalizations.
I'll stand on my record of being fair and trying to making newcomer's welcome - this is no newbie but rather a poser.
<< <i>I know Stone193 isn't looking for accolades but he's the best poster on this forum, and it's not even close. Mike - don't forget to PayPal me the $5 you promised me for saying that.
<< <i>I know Stone193 isn't looking for accolades but he's the best poster on this forum, and it's not even close. Mike - don't forget to PayPal me the $5 you promised me for saying that.
- >>
>>
Or instead of the fiver, I'd take a Topps baseball card of Berk Ross.
Bottom line though is of course you are correct - this guy really wasn't fooling anybody, but I never concern myself here about who got banned and comes back, and who has various alt-ID's...I couldn't care less. I responded to the thread because I thought we could learn from it, and others could hopefully learn from the information. As some here know, I can't stand scammers, and enjoy threads exposing them in order to try to get rid of as many of them as possible. I learned a few things myself on this thread, especially from Grote15 about distinguishing certain types of genuine unopened packs.
<< <i><<< this is no newbie but rather a poser. >>>
Bottom line though is of course you are correct - this guy really wasn't fooling anybody, but I never concern myself here about who got banned and comes back, and who has various alt-ID's...I couldn't care less. I responded to the thread because I thought we could learn from it, and others could hopefully learn from the information. As some here know, I can't stand scammers, and enjoy threads exposing them in order to try to get rid of as many of them as possible. I learned a few things myself on this thread, especially from Grote15 about distinguishing certain types of genuine unopened packs.
Steve
- >>
Steve
I can't speak for anyone else who has not extended the welcome mat to Mr Runswithnumbers.
I will only speak for myself - at no time did I tell him NOT to speak his mind - go back and read my posts.
What annoyed me - and always will - is the express use of hyperbole in thread titles - as if we're all a bunch of 3rd graders telling tales out of school.
Calling the graders at PSA clueless is an exaggeration - it's counter-productive - and has the potential of running the truly knowledgeable members away rather than towards the discussion IMO.
My response to his question:
<< <i>Mr Nameshimselfwithnumbers
Good point and I'm sure if you took the time to call - perhaps someone might explain it.
When it comes to cards, I believe they don't give a lot of explanation due to the time - it's a cost effectiveness thing IMO.
Now, if you pay enough - e.g. if you submit a Ruth sig which is gonna cost ya 150$ - they will give you a detailed reason for not giving it the ok.
Having said all this - I would hardly accuse them of being clueless just because they happen not to agree with you. >>
He wanted to know why they don't give a detailed analysis - that was my answer. Of course - how I addressed him was facetious - it was just how I felt at the moment.
Now, about the knowledge you gleaned.
That knowledge is an "END" - but the "MEANS" may not justify it IMO - since the means involved a wreckless title - immature IMO - and without merit.
When one sends something to PSA - one is paying for an OPINION - nothing more, nothing less.
If one doesn't agree with that opinion - one should not lead to the conclusion that the process is clueless.
If my points here are not valid - then I'm gonna come to the conclusion that I'm no longer relevant to this forum and should move on.
I'm the first to say - I'm capable of posting something totally inane - but I've also tried to post information that would enhance the depth of someone's knowledge.
Heck - I should post more threads - but I'm affraid there wouldn't be a lot of interest - especially in the area of memorabilia which I now enjoy more than cards.
Some may be surpised by the short and perhaps curt responses I've made lately - in some instances.
Not sure why I'm fellin' this way - I only want to see more exchanges of ideas which further our knowledge.
IMO, the amount of contribution we're making to that end vs. "other" threads is getting way too askew.
<< <i>What's up stown?? I see you stuck your foot-in-mouth again calling someone a liar errrr BS. Nice job of attacking a newbie, and stone you ain't far behind. I called a buddy of mine who is a writer (currently on strike) and a long time collector ( over 30 years) if he knew Steve Hart. I already knew the answer. No he doesn't. As he does not have the time, i find what he wants for him. I'm waiting for thread when it's someone with respect on this board to come across this problem. You going to call it BS then. Wise up >>
Yeah, what Mike said, especially what you can do with your thoughts on the subject. Just re-read the thread and if you don't think the OP has an agenda, you are the one who is clueless.
And the next time you attempt to call out posters, at least try to make some sense. Mmmkay?
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i><<< this is no newbie but rather a poser. >>>
Bottom line though is of course you are correct - this guy really wasn't fooling anybody, but I never concern myself here about who got banned and comes back, and who has various alt-ID's...I couldn't care less. I responded to the thread because I thought we could learn from it, and others could hopefully learn from the information. As some here know, I can't stand scammers, and enjoy threads exposing them in order to try to get rid of as many of them as possible. I learned a few things myself on this thread, especially from Grote15 about distinguishing certain types of genuine unopened packs.
Steve
- >>
Steve
I can't speak for anyone else who has not extended the welcome mat to Mr Runswithnumbers.
I will only speak for myself - at no time did I tell him NOT to speak his mind - go back and read my posts.
What annoyed me - and always will - is the express use of hyperbole in thread titles - as if we're all a bunch of 3rd graders telling tales out of school.
Calling the graders at PSA clueless is an exaggeration - it's counter-productive - and has the potential of running the truly knowledgeable members away rather than towards the discussion IMO.
My response to his question:
<< <i>Mr Nameshimselfwithnumbers
Good point and I'm sure if you took the time to call - perhaps someone might explain it.
When it comes to cards, I believe they don't give a lot of explanation due to the time - it's a cost effectiveness thing IMO.
Now, if you pay enough - e.g. if you submit a Ruth sig which is gonna cost ya 150$ - they will give you a detailed reason for not giving it the ok.
Having said all this - I would hardly accuse them of being clueless just because they happen not to agree with you. >>
He wanted to know why they don't give a detailed analysis - that was my answer. Of course - how I addressed him was facetious - it was just how I felt at the moment.
Now, about the knowledge you gleaned.
That knowledge is an "END" - but the "MEANS" may not justify it IMO - since the means involved a wreckless title - immature IMO - and without merit.
When one sends something to PSA - one is paying for an OPINION - nothing more, nothing less.
If one doesn't agree with that opinion - one should not lead to the conclusion that the process is clueless.
If my points here are not valid - then I'm gonna come to the conclusion that I'm no longer relevant to this forum and should move on.
I'm the first to say - I'm capable of posting something totally inane - but I've also tried to post information that would enhance the depth of someone's knowledge.
Heck - I should post more threads - but I'm affraid there wouldn't be a lot of interest - especially in the area of memorabilia which I now enjoy more than cards.
Some may be surpised by the short and perhaps curt responses I've made lately - in some instances.
Not sure why I'm fellin' this way - I only want to see more exchanges of ideas which further our knowledge.
IMO, the amount of contribution we're making to that end vs. "other" threads is getting way too askew.
mike >>
Well Mike, I think that most people, if not almost all people lurking and posting on internet forums these days realize that there are going to be a certain number of trolls out there - that is to be expected. I guess the trolls bother some people but they don't bother me in the least. But I can see your point, especially how it could affect a newbie...but you and others counteracting this in my view actually can provide further and more enlightening information...so the troll not only gets squashed, but actually the information which squashes the troll can be of benefit. Naturally if the trolls get out of hand, their posts can simply be deleted.
.....And especially if the negative comments come from a brand new poster...I don't think almost anyone would truly take the comments at heart. Now if someone here with say 5,000 posts was the OP with those opening remarks, it would mean something different.
<< <i>.....And especially if the negative comments come from a brand new poster...I don't think almost anyone would truly take the comments at heart. Now if someone here with say 5,000 posts was the OP with those opening remarks, it would mean something different. >>
Agree Steve.
My main point was: I hope you don't think I'm turning into a board ogre and trying to tell people what they can and can't say.
I was just expressing my opinion at the time.
I like all of you guys - after all - this IS just chat - and about paper and stuff - if ya know what I mean?
this guy doesnt collect for 31 years and not know how to reseal a pack,im not buying it, its not like it a well kept secret by3 monks in mongolia or something, ebay is full of realed stuff,this guy is not new,just a new id- kinda lke stitzen/axhole-might be him, might be the ghost of tiny tim for all i know
<< <i>.....And especially if the negative comments come from a brand new poster...I don't think almost anyone would truly take the comments at heart. Now if someone here with say 5,000 posts was the OP with those opening remarks, it would mean something different. >>
Agree Steve.
My main point was: I hope you don't think I'm turning into a board ogre and trying to tell people what they can and can't say.
I was just expressing my opinion at the time.
I like all of you guys - after all - this IS just chat - and about paper and stuff - if ya know what I mean?
>>
"board orge" - LOL...Mike you have got to be the exact opposite of that. Don't forget that there are always going to be people, for whatever reason, who are jealous of someone popular like yourself, and no doubt those uncalled for, inaccurate remarks about you certainly exemplifies that.
I come here for the fun...some interesting card discussion, smoking out an ebay scammer, dissing a weasel card dealer, or a little smack talk in Sports Talk - all in good humor and entertainment in my view and I fully intend to keep it that way. Some outside this forum and non-collectors might see that as "weird" fun, humor and entertainment (LOL) - but to me it's enjoyable.
I've always stated that I've never met a fellow baseball card collector who I didn't like, and I stand by that statement.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the fun pack only contain one card with a piece of gum? If this is the case, wouldn't the card be damaged because of the gum?
Yep, They only have one card in there. And it could be baseball,Football, or Non-sport. If i purchased the pack I wouldnt open it. You should be able to see through the pack to tell which card it is anyways.
<< <i>.... And is Steve Hart so famous that everyone should know who he is? I've been collecting since 1977 (i.e. 31 years), and I have never heard of him >>
<< <i>What's up stown?? I see you stuck your foot-in-mouth again calling someone a liar errrr BS. Nice job of attacking a newbie, and stone you ain't far behind. I called a buddy of mine who is a writer (currently on strike) and a long time collector ( over 30 years) if he knew Steve Hart. I already knew the answer. No he doesn't. As he does not have the time, i find what he wants for him. I'm waiting for thread when it's someone with respect on this board to come across this problem. You going to call it BS then. Wise up >>
carew, your "writer friend" is HARDLY the guy to ask if he knows anything about anything if you have been his lacky for so long. You shot down your own example by claiming he has collected for over 30 years but has somebody do his collecting for him. Bad example, and as you "wait for a thread involving a respected poster" I will wait for you to not fall flat on your face with a horses a$$ example like your writer buddy.
Comments
D'oh!!
Thread 1
Thread 2
<< <i>SteveK,
They were bought from six different people, and the 1980 Henderson cello was pulled directly from a sealed cello box. >>
Do you mean a sealed cello case? I don't believe Topps sealed their boxes in the 80's. If it was sealed, it would of had to have been sealed after 1980.
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
<< <i>Thanks for the info!
That said, can anybody answer my original question of how a cello pack could be altered without it being visible to the naked eye? >>
Replace altered with "made from scratch" and you have your answer. There has been a ton of home made 1968 cello packs on ebay the last 6 months from darlingdeals...
Current obsession, all things Topps 1969 - 1972
<< <i>Does anyone find it interesting that the OP claims to have been a collector and more knowledgeable than PSA's pack graders, yet he has never even heard of Steve Hart????
D'oh!! >>
Hence the reason I called BS.
Anyway, the pack contained only that Schmidt card, and it had a small stain on it that wasn't visible from the auction scan. The other cards were all basic commons.
Looking back, it was probably tampered with. It was a $19 dollar lesson, with the nineteen dollar price tag perhaps being the biggest clue of all.
Rack packs are harder to reseal than cellos.
Foil packs are harder to reseal than rack packs
With that being said, yes there are some real expert resealers out there that can open and reseal just about anything. Also the first factory shrink wrapped boxes I remember where the 1989 upper deck high#'s that went to retail stores after that 90 Leaf, unless you want to count the 1986 and 87 and 88 Fleer rack boxes (24 racks) that had clear shrink wrap, but each rack pack had 3 sealed packs inside each rack.Also the 89 U.D. high# had clear shrink wrap it was not until 1990 and 1991 that the companies put their Logos on the shrink wrap.
In the late 80's and early 90's the resealed cellos and rack packs with stars on top started to surface all over the place and I am sure others that have more knowledge than me can attest to this fact.
PS: Lee thanks for hiding that gun, can I have it back now?.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Mine always come back graded 9 or 10.
No big whoop.
<< <i>The problem is that customers don't pay them to "err on the conservative side". They pay them to be accurate!
If they are going to take my money and return my packs to me as "altered", the least they could do is explain why they think that they are altered!! >>
I'm wondering why they don't do that myself. Same goes with "Evidence of trim" where they could show where they believe it was trimmed. This way the customer will know what to look for so they don't get burned again.
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
<< <i> I've been collecting since 1977 (i.e. 31 years), and I have never heard of him.... >>
and now Mr. Nameshimselfwithnumbers after one day on the message boards
LOL, that is tooo funny!
You must have been collecting in a vacuum these past 31 years if you are truly serious!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
What's up stown?? I see you stuck your foot-in-mouth again calling someone a liar errrr BS. Nice job of attacking a newbie, and stone you ain't far behind. I called a buddy of mine who is a writer (currently on strike) and a long time collector ( over 30 years) if he knew Steve Hart. I already knew the answer. No he doesn't. As he does not have the time, i find what he wants for him. I'm waiting for thread when it's someone with respect on this board to come across this problem. You going to call it BS then. Wise up
<< <i>I'm waiting for thread when it's someone with respect on this board to come across this problem. You going to call it BS then. Wise up >>
Lighten up guys
BTW I have never submitted to PSA.
The OP very well could be legit but to come on their board and bash them when the OP doesnt state any info to back that they are real. Just says PSA is basically clueless. We'll he appears more clueless since he didnt know you could reseal packs. Collected for 30 years and didnt know that? My 11 year old knows that. Just because he has 7 packs doesnt mean they are real. Said he pulled the 1980 cello from a sealed box when Topps didnt have sealed cello boxes to my knowledge in 1980. The flap closed doesnt constitute a sealed box.
Not a PSA lover as I'll bash them when I feel its fair but in this case, with these facts I feel its unnecessary.
I guess I'm wrong with that info. Nevermind.
Edited for bad spelling.
Lighten up guys
I don't think anyone doubts he bought these cellos from different sellers, but there are so many bad cellos floating around that it's not surprising that many are bad. Personally, I'd rather have a company like PSA determining authenticity. The problem is not with PSA but with the resealers and pack factories out there. GAI "lightened up" with those bogus grocery cellos from the early 70s and the result is many fake packs hiding under the guise of authenticity.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>What's up stown?? I see you stuck your foot-in-mouth again calling someone a liar errrr BS. Nice job of attacking a newbie, and stone you ain't far behind. I called a buddy of mine who is a writer (currently on strike) and a long time collector ( over 30 years) if he knew Steve Hart. I already knew the answer. No he doesn't. As he does not have the time, i find what he wants for him. I'm waiting for thread when it's someone with respect on this board to come across this problem. You going to call it BS then. Wise up >>
Carew29
Newbies don't come on and make those kind of sweeping generalizations.
I'll stand on my record of being fair and trying to making newcomer's welcome - this is no newbie but rather a poser.
You?
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>Don't hold back on him Mike, let him really know how you feel! >>
Gee Anthony, I hope he's not a friend?
mike
Mike - don't forget to PayPal me the $5 you promised me for saying that.
-
<< <i>I know Stone193 isn't looking for accolades but he's the best poster on this forum, and it's not even close.
Mike - don't forget to PayPal me the $5 you promised me for saying that.
- >>
<< <i>
<< <i>I know Stone193 isn't looking for accolades but he's the best poster on this forum, and it's not even close.
Mike - don't forget to PayPal me the $5 you promised me for saying that.
- >>
Or instead of the fiver, I'd take a Topps baseball card of Berk Ross.
Bottom line though is of course you are correct - this guy really wasn't fooling anybody, but I never concern myself here about who got banned and comes back, and who has various alt-ID's...I couldn't care less. I responded to the thread because I thought we could learn from it, and others could hopefully learn from the information. As some here know, I can't stand scammers, and enjoy threads exposing them in order to try to get rid of as many of them as possible. I learned a few things myself on this thread, especially from Grote15 about distinguishing certain types of genuine unopened packs.
Steve
-
<< <i><<< this is no newbie but rather a poser. >>>
Bottom line though is of course you are correct - this guy really wasn't fooling anybody, but I never concern myself here about who got banned and comes back, and who has various alt-ID's...I couldn't care less. I responded to the thread because I thought we could learn from it, and others could hopefully learn from the information. As some here know, I can't stand scammers, and enjoy threads exposing them in order to try to get rid of as many of them as possible. I learned a few things myself on this thread, especially from Grote15 about distinguishing certain types of genuine unopened packs.
Steve
- >>
Steve
I can't speak for anyone else who has not extended the welcome mat to Mr Runswithnumbers.
I will only speak for myself - at no time did I tell him NOT to speak his mind - go back and read my posts.
What annoyed me - and always will - is the express use of hyperbole in thread titles - as if we're all a bunch of 3rd graders telling tales out of school.
Calling the graders at PSA clueless is an exaggeration - it's counter-productive - and has the potential of running the truly knowledgeable members away rather than towards the discussion IMO.
My response to his question:
<< <i>Mr Nameshimselfwithnumbers
Good point and I'm sure if you took the time to call - perhaps someone might explain it.
When it comes to cards, I believe they don't give a lot of explanation due to the time - it's a cost effectiveness thing IMO.
Now, if you pay enough - e.g. if you submit a Ruth sig which is gonna cost ya 150$ - they will give you a detailed reason for not giving it the ok.
Having said all this - I would hardly accuse them of being clueless just because they happen not to agree with you. >>
He wanted to know why they don't give a detailed analysis - that was my answer. Of course - how I addressed him was facetious - it was just how I felt at the moment.
Now, about the knowledge you gleaned.
That knowledge is an "END" - but the "MEANS" may not justify it IMO - since the means involved a wreckless title - immature IMO - and without merit.
When one sends something to PSA - one is paying for an OPINION - nothing more, nothing less.
If one doesn't agree with that opinion - one should not lead to the conclusion that the process is clueless.
If my points here are not valid - then I'm gonna come to the conclusion that I'm no longer relevant to this forum and should move on.
I'm the first to say - I'm capable of posting something totally inane - but I've also tried to post information that would enhance the depth of someone's knowledge.
Heck - I should post more threads - but I'm affraid there wouldn't be a lot of interest - especially in the area of memorabilia which I now enjoy more than cards.
Some may be surpised by the short and perhaps curt responses I've made lately - in some instances.
Not sure why I'm fellin' this way - I only want to see more exchanges of ideas which further our knowledge.
IMO, the amount of contribution we're making to that end vs. "other" threads is getting way too askew.
mike
<< <i>What's up stown?? I see you stuck your foot-in-mouth again calling someone a liar errrr BS. Nice job of attacking a newbie, and stone you ain't far behind. I called a buddy of mine who is a writer (currently on strike) and a long time collector ( over 30 years) if he knew Steve Hart. I already knew the answer. No he doesn't. As he does not have the time, i find what he wants for him. I'm waiting for thread when it's someone with respect on this board to come across this problem. You going to call it BS then. Wise up >>
Yeah, what Mike said, especially what you can do with your thoughts on the subject. Just re-read the thread and if you don't think the OP has an agenda, you are the one who is clueless.
And the next time you attempt to call out posters, at least try to make some sense. Mmmkay?
<< <i>
<< <i><<< this is no newbie but rather a poser. >>>
Bottom line though is of course you are correct - this guy really wasn't fooling anybody, but I never concern myself here about who got banned and comes back, and who has various alt-ID's...I couldn't care less. I responded to the thread because I thought we could learn from it, and others could hopefully learn from the information. As some here know, I can't stand scammers, and enjoy threads exposing them in order to try to get rid of as many of them as possible. I learned a few things myself on this thread, especially from Grote15 about distinguishing certain types of genuine unopened packs.
Steve
- >>
Steve
I can't speak for anyone else who has not extended the welcome mat to Mr Runswithnumbers.
I will only speak for myself - at no time did I tell him NOT to speak his mind - go back and read my posts.
What annoyed me - and always will - is the express use of hyperbole in thread titles - as if we're all a bunch of 3rd graders telling tales out of school.
Calling the graders at PSA clueless is an exaggeration - it's counter-productive - and has the potential of running the truly knowledgeable members away rather than towards the discussion IMO.
My response to his question:
<< <i>Mr Nameshimselfwithnumbers
Good point and I'm sure if you took the time to call - perhaps someone might explain it.
When it comes to cards, I believe they don't give a lot of explanation due to the time - it's a cost effectiveness thing IMO.
Now, if you pay enough - e.g. if you submit a Ruth sig which is gonna cost ya 150$ - they will give you a detailed reason for not giving it the ok.
Having said all this - I would hardly accuse them of being clueless just because they happen not to agree with you. >>
He wanted to know why they don't give a detailed analysis - that was my answer. Of course - how I addressed him was facetious - it was just how I felt at the moment.
Now, about the knowledge you gleaned.
That knowledge is an "END" - but the "MEANS" may not justify it IMO - since the means involved a wreckless title - immature IMO - and without merit.
When one sends something to PSA - one is paying for an OPINION - nothing more, nothing less.
If one doesn't agree with that opinion - one should not lead to the conclusion that the process is clueless.
If my points here are not valid - then I'm gonna come to the conclusion that I'm no longer relevant to this forum and should move on.
I'm the first to say - I'm capable of posting something totally inane - but I've also tried to post information that would enhance the depth of someone's knowledge.
Heck - I should post more threads - but I'm affraid there wouldn't be a lot of interest - especially in the area of memorabilia which I now enjoy more than cards.
Some may be surpised by the short and perhaps curt responses I've made lately - in some instances.
Not sure why I'm fellin' this way - I only want to see more exchanges of ideas which further our knowledge.
IMO, the amount of contribution we're making to that end vs. "other" threads is getting way too askew.
mike >>
Well Mike, I think that most people, if not almost all people lurking and posting on internet forums these days realize that there are going to be a certain number of trolls out there - that is to be expected. I guess the trolls bother some people but they don't bother me in the least. But I can see your point, especially how it could affect a newbie...but you and others counteracting this in my view actually can provide further and more enlightening information...so the troll not only gets squashed, but actually the information which squashes the troll can be of benefit. Naturally if the trolls get out of hand, their posts can simply be deleted.
-
<< <i>.....And especially if the negative comments come from a brand new poster...I don't think almost anyone would truly take the comments at heart. Now if someone here with say 5,000 posts was the OP with those opening remarks, it would mean something different. >>
Agree Steve.
My main point was: I hope you don't think I'm turning into a board ogre and trying to tell people what they can and can't say.
I was just expressing my opinion at the time.
I like all of you guys - after all - this IS just chat - and about paper and stuff - if ya know what I mean?
Please don't confuse me with Mr Nameshimselfwithnumbers
I'm only a number. Not a bunch of them...
On a side note, anyone notice the '64 fun pack on Steve's website? Anyone going to take a shot at it?
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
<< <i>Fun read
Please don't confuse me with Mr Nameshimselfwithnumbers
I'm only a number. Not a bunch of them...
>>
<< <i>On a side note, anyone notice the '64 fun pack on Steve's website? Anyone going to take a shot at it?
>>
Saw it and was sorely tempted, but passed. It was close.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>
<< <i>.....And especially if the negative comments come from a brand new poster...I don't think almost anyone would truly take the comments at heart. Now if someone here with say 5,000 posts was the OP with those opening remarks, it would mean something different. >>
Agree Steve.
My main point was: I hope you don't think I'm turning into a board ogre and trying to tell people what they can and can't say.
I was just expressing my opinion at the time.
I like all of you guys - after all - this IS just chat - and about paper and stuff - if ya know what I mean?
"board orge" - LOL...Mike you have got to be the exact opposite of that. Don't forget that there are always going to be people, for whatever reason, who are jealous of someone popular like yourself, and no doubt those uncalled for, inaccurate remarks about you certainly exemplifies that.
I come here for the fun...some interesting card discussion, smoking out an ebay scammer, dissing a weasel card dealer, or a little smack talk in Sports Talk - all in good humor and entertainment in my view and I fully intend to keep it that way. Some outside this forum and non-collectors might see that as "weird" fun, humor and entertainment (LOL) - but to me it's enjoyable.
I've always stated that I've never met a fellow baseball card collector who I didn't like, and I stand by that statement.
Steve
-
You should be able to see through the pack to tell which card it is anyways.
youre welcome,
resident psychopatch-randy
<< <i>
<< <i>On a side note, anyone notice the '64 fun pack on Steve's website? Anyone going to take a shot at it?
>>
>>
Looks cheap for a tough pack? I could blow about 5k on his site withour tryin, NOT INCLUDING the 52 topps pack
.... And is Steve Hart so famous that everyone should know who he is? I've been collecting since 1977 (i.e. 31 years), and I have never heard of him
I guess the question is "where have you been collecting those 31 years"?
<< <i>.... And is Steve Hart so famous that everyone should know who he is? I've been collecting since 1977 (i.e. 31 years), and I have never heard of him
>>
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>What's up stown?? I see you stuck your foot-in-mouth again calling someone a liar errrr BS. Nice job of attacking a newbie, and stone you ain't far behind. I called a buddy of mine who is a writer (currently on strike) and a long time collector ( over 30 years) if he knew Steve Hart. I already knew the answer. No he doesn't. As he does not have the time, i find what he wants for him. I'm waiting for thread when it's someone with respect on this board to come across this problem. You going to call it BS then. Wise up >>
carew, your "writer friend" is HARDLY the guy to ask if he knows anything about anything if you have been his lacky for so long. You shot down your own example by claiming he has collected for over 30 years but has somebody do his collecting for him. Bad example, and as you "wait for a thread involving a respected poster" I will wait for you to not fall flat on your face with a horses a$$ example like your writer buddy.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240