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Don't collect ugly coins, even if they are rare.
TahoeDale
Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭
One of the top dealers(and authors) has started collecting again-Doug Winter.
In his OP on collecting National Bank notes, he states that he isn't going to buy the worn ugly notes, though rare, and perhaps needed for the series he is collecting.
I understand, and agree. Every time I look at the XF or lower grades in my Bust half collection, I cringe. I have tried to assemble a group of AU or better early dates, and MS for the later ones. But the bug/addiction to complete a series sometimes overcomes the best of plans.
This is not to say you shouldn't collect any grade below AU. But if your set is mostly F to AU, why include a problem G, or an ugly F. Better to leave that one blank, or wait til your resources allow a better grade.
The coin I am regretting is the 1795/1795 3 leaves. They just don't come nice, even for the assigned grade. But to find the only AU or better, is a goal that cannot be achieved. Most likely.
In his OP on collecting National Bank notes, he states that he isn't going to buy the worn ugly notes, though rare, and perhaps needed for the series he is collecting.
I understand, and agree. Every time I look at the XF or lower grades in my Bust half collection, I cringe. I have tried to assemble a group of AU or better early dates, and MS for the later ones. But the bug/addiction to complete a series sometimes overcomes the best of plans.
This is not to say you shouldn't collect any grade below AU. But if your set is mostly F to AU, why include a problem G, or an ugly F. Better to leave that one blank, or wait til your resources allow a better grade.
The coin I am regretting is the 1795/1795 3 leaves. They just don't come nice, even for the assigned grade. But to find the only AU or better, is a goal that cannot be achieved. Most likely.
TahoeDale
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etc coins. the discount has to be quite beefy though to get me interested.
for example, any southern gold lib half eagles for less then 500.
<< <i>Collect what you want... standards are personal taste and pocket book guided. Cheers, RickO >>
I tried to post a thread about posting what you like and it got poofed! Good advice though!
To me the key criteria is: "Will I enjoy looking at this coin?"
If the answer is 'no', then I don't care how cheap it is, or how rare it is, I just can't see a reason to own it.
Harlan J. Berk, Ltd.
https://hjbltd.com/#!/department/us-coins
<< <i>Don't collect ugly coins, even if they are rare. >>
Love it when people tell other people what to collect.
my sarcasm detector just exploded. hm.
FWIW, i'm also not one to subscribe to the thinking that says "buy the best coin you can afford" when that coin is one i'm not totally satisfied with.
Some in the census dont exist above VG.
siliconvalleycoins.com
Especially as it pertains to Nationals, quite often the only note known, or the very few notes known, are the ratty, dirty VGs. Sometimes there is no such thing as "waiting for a better example to show up". That's it. For the most part, the chance to own a better example of any coin happens much, much more than it does for paper money.
But I do respect what anyone chooses to collect, even in a way that Mr. Winter suggests. Heck, an ugly piece, no matter how rare, is ugly. And sometimes that cannot be overlooked.
1. Never completing the set because there are no pleasing examples available.
2. Completing the set with a key date that has one of the few examples available.
I'll go with option #2.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
If you don't care what others think, that's great. Collect what you like.
But Doug Winter, among several others we rely on, has some great insights to collecting, buying, selling that come with only years of experience.
Depending on your budget, maybe only raw problem coins can be collected. But if the series you are interested in can be assembled in higher grades, and you are committed to putting together a comparable group of similar grades, then the ugly (and expensive) rarities may have to be omitted.
Just an approach that you might think about, before you buy a coin that is not satisfactory for the overall collection.
<< <i>Doug Winter, among several others we rely on >>
We rely on Doug Winter?
Well I sure can't argue with that. Go for it!
Each coin really needs to be evaluated on its own merits... it becomes even more critical in terms of evaluating rarity. Is the coin really just ugly, possibly environmentally impaired or damaged or is the coin a low grade and perhaps it is not likely many better examples will come your way?
There are low grade examples worth owning... the skill is determining which ones they are...
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
To not complete a collection just because a particular date is unaffordable in the grade one wishes to own doesn't make sense to me. Yes, the coin may not "match" the rest of the collection, but if it's an ultra-rare piece, one should still be proud to own it. Just be sure it's a piece you enjoy looking at even if the coin is low grade. I prefer MS pieces for my Buffalo nickel collection. But I've seen several attractive rare dates in circulated grades that I would be happy to own if MS examples were out of my price range.
As Keets already stated, patience is the key. I've waited years (and still am waiting in some cases) for the right piece to come along in a particular date/mm. But when the right piece presents itself, the satisfaction of acquisition is all the greater irregardless of the grade.
one of the hardest things to master in the hobby is patience. way too many collectors feel that if they pass on a certain coin they'll be shut out and that type of thinking has caused more than a few to deviate from what their original thinking might have been when starting a set. certainly there are some rare/scarce items that won't come around very often but those are few and far between, being the exception for most of us and most series/sets. i figure that if i'm really obsessed with buying-buying-buying it'll be better in the long run if i try to improve what i already have instead of compromising myself just to fill a hole. i'm currently in the midst of a 2+ year wait on the right 1805 Half-Cent and don't feel compelled to buy "any coin" just to have it.
Keets has also given me good advice, and I agree with him completely. I certainly have made buying mistakes attributable to my lack of patience, and this is like to surface again if/when I get active.
<< <i> and this is like to surface again if/when I get active. >>
You're already back, man.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>To me the key criteria is: "Will I enjoy looking at this coin?" >>
edited to add- I have bought some real barkers with rare cuds or terminal die states that are unique or nearly so, and will again if sufficiently interesting.
I recall seeing a thread about a 1796 quarter that ended up in a PCGS slab and it was scratched into oblivion. That's an example of something I wouldn't want to own for free (barring of course that I'd be allowed to immediately resell it so fast that heads would spin).
However, I have bought many coins in the Ag-G range.
I might add that's a REALLY SWEET ratty VG/F National Bank note.
Dale's advice is better than my collecting habits, a PQ coin is always an easy sell. That AU three leaves will be a long wait though, since there are probably no more than 3 or 4 in true XF or AU. A VF would not be that bad
CG
<< <i>
To me the key criteria is: "Will I enjoy looking at this coin?"
>>
If the parameters are only attractive coins that are part of a certain collection, then that is fine.
If completeness is critical and you wish to get different die varieties, die states, etc., such as Jules Reiver did then forget about attractive high grade coins.
Again, DEFINE your collection.
I have collected early currency from different areas and have found that some notes may not even be available complete, let alone beautiful. If I want a note, it may be that one that is missing a portion may be the only one in existence. Completeness makes strange bedfellows.
CCU's statement is appropriate for his collection and it may be for your collection.
I do not agree with Dale's statement, in general, however.
DEFINITION!!
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
On the other hand, set and variety collectors are driven by a whole different focus. and I imagine an r6 would be sought after even if it wore pocket protectors, had zits and missing teeth!
1796
Yes, and if you decide to sell them later on, they will sell at a steep discount. What goes around, comes around.
Ugly does not necessarily mean low grade (G-VG). I have seen plenty of ugly coins that are graded MS65. Perhaps a better description would be 'no eye appeal whatsoever,' and this still leaves lots of room for disagreement. To me, ugly does mean bent, corroded, spot-tooled, whizzed, harshly cleaned, AT (in wacky colors), and sometimes NT (especially dark, 'toning-burn'). Most MS60-61 coins look ugly to me because of too many contact marks (especially big coins like silver dollars and double eagles). Some collectors derive pleasure from any new coin added to their collection, and others (like me) are probably overly critical, always glaring at the imperfections in coins in our collections.
<< <i>one of the hardest things to master in the hobby is patience. way too many collectors feel that if they pass on a certain coin they'll be shut out and that type of thinking has caused more than a few to deviate from what their original thinking might have been when starting a set. FWIW, i'm also not one to subscribe to the thinking that says "buy the best coin you can afford" when that coin is one i'm not totally satisfied with. >>
I concur with you on this!
<< <i>Don't collect ugly coins, even if they are rare. >>
that's the usual dumb advice that's always blabbered about by those who are only capable of viewing coins thru a $$$.
much better to collect what YOU like, & let those who think they are leaders wander around aimlessly w/ their blinders on
K S
If a Bust variety is so rare that I cannot afford anything but an ugly lower grade or damaged specimen, I don't bother looking to buy the variety. Sure, I might gee whiz it, but would not consider buying it.
Busties in grades below XF 40, and problem coins, simply do not fill my ownership needs. I have no problem appreciating why other collectors buy only lower grades, it just doesn't do it for me.
<< <i>Agree - no Barbers in MY collection.
Theodore Roosevelt agrees!
It took me a few years to find a business strike dime and quarter that I feel proud enough to show to friends. It took nearly four years to find a Half like that. Business strike Shield Nickels are just as tough, as are toned SLQs.
A friend with LOTS of money put together a very impressive (ie., expensive) set of Half Cents by date and variety. It was so impressive that even the auction catalogue re the sale of this collection is a collector's item.
I asked him why he sold his collection. His comment was, "I just got tired of paying $20,000 or more for something that looked like a piece of dog****."
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."