the OP is the same whiner that posted this doozie of a thread talking about the fact that he overpays for coins, and sells them for a loss on ebay, using "trends" pricing and other tactics that turns buyers off.
Your current auctions still have crap slabs in them and several more have "grades" listed in the title. Your whining is old, especially when you either don't care for the rules or don't care to follow them. Also, you posted a thread recently asking whether or not only ANA members should post on ebay. Would the ANA like it if they knew you were intentionally breaking the new ebay TPG rules; rules that they helped ebay to forumulate?
<< <i>Has anybody read the following:Frank Provasek has a letter published in the October 8 Coin World that shines some common sense on Ebay's new policies. basically that bad sellers need to be weeded out rather than imposing more rules on honest sellers. I can't find a link on line but if you have the paper copy, you should read it. " >>
Based on the link that seanq posted, Frank belongs in the former group rather than the latter. And if ebay makes new rules to reign in the bad sellers, then the good sellers are just going to have to follow them. And most good sellers here haven't complained at all. At first we thought frank was an hosest seller caught in the crossfire and only guilty of not reading the new rules carefully enough. The we found out what he's been selling. So I'd say his letter is just an attempt to mitigate his loss of sale venue for crap slabs and overgraded raw coins.
<< <i>Has anybody read the following:Frank Provasek has a letter published in the October 8 Coin World that shines some common sense on Ebay's new policies. basically that bad sellers need to be weeded out rather than imposing more rules on honest sellers. I can't find a link on line but if you have the paper copy, you should read it. " >>
Based on the link that seanq posted, Frank belongs in the former group rather than the latter. And if ebay makes new rules to reign in the bad sellers, then the good sellers are just going to have to follow them. And most good sellers here haven't complained at all. At first we thought frank was an hosest seller caught in the crossfire and only guilty of not reading the new rules carefully enough. The we found out what he's been selling. So I'd say his letter is just an attempt to mitigate his loss of sale venue for crap slabs and overgraded raw coins.
--Jerry >>
my thoughts exactly, another crap slabber goes down in flames
<< <i>Has anybody read the following:Frank Provasek has a letter published in the October 8 Coin World that shines some common sense on Ebay's new policies. basically that bad sellers need to be weeded out rather than imposing more rules on honest sellers. I can't find a link on line but if you have the paper copy, you should read it. " >>
<< <i>Poorly thought out
EBay’s new rules for selling coins are poorly thought out, relying on new listing rules rather than weeding out bad sellers. EBay is telling us what slabs can be called "certified" (a good idea, but also banning services operated by J.T. Stanton and Larry Briggs), that we can’t use official American Numismatic Association numerical grades such as Very Fine 20 for raw coins, that it is more important to show a good picture of the plastic rather than a good picture of the coin, that we cannot mention retail or wholesale values of raw coins, or even the government issue price (I was told by a clueless eBay representative that mentioning that a 1963 Proof set was issued at $2.10 was a violation unless all five coins were in approved slabs!) A crook can steal pictures of both sides of a slabbed coin from a Web site, collect the money and deliver nothing to the winning bidder, all while fully complying with eBay’s new "trust and safety" rules. Why doesn’t eBay offer a checkbox to show only listings from ANA members? No seller would be forced to join the ANA. No buyer would be limited to buying only from ANA members. Sellers could list coins as they best see fit, based on their experience and reputation.
Frank Provasek ANA member Address withheld >>
Below it appears another letter from Gary Adkins PNG President:
<< <i>Courageous move
On behalf of the Professional Numismatists Guild, I would like to praise and congratulate eBay and the American Numismatic Association. EBay worked with the ANA and its advisory group, which included members of the PNG, to put a serious damper on fraud and deception as related to coin sales and auctions on eBay. This was a courageous move by eBay, and no doubt a hit to their lucrative revenue stream. Nonetheless, eBay took the high road and now will only accept "certified" coins from the four top grading services as evidenced by the annual survey that is cosponsored by the ANA, PNG and the Industry Council for Tangible Assets. This survey may be seen on the PNG Web site, www .PNGdealers.com. Other services may still be listed on eBay, but only as "raw" coins. Unsuspecting buyers have been victims of overgraded, cleaned and even counterfeit coins that were sold as "certified" by some independent grading services that would not meet standards as generally accepted in the numismatic community. This new policy by eBay will certainly help to eradicate these abuses and help the credibility of their business model. The Professional Numismatists Guild will continue to offer its assistance and advice, and work closely with eBay and the ANA to combat fraud and misleading advertising in the marketplace.
Gary Adkins Edina, Minn. President, PNG >>
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
<< <i> Frank, you make zero sense. Your grading expertise is only yours while being obvioulsy subjective the fact that you are a dealer adds a layer of self dealing, afterall you will benefit from overgrading therefore you have zero fiducuary obligation to your buyers, i.e. we just have to trust you, a dealer who will benefit from the transaction. I don't drink from the fountain of Koolaide, but I don't want to believe everything you have to say either. I rather grade the coin myself or get a second or third opinion form a disinterested third party or maybe have a tpg that I trust grade the coin, or all three. I happen to always wonder why a coin that as you say is tunning isn't slabbed by one of Ebay's approved tpgers. If I had my choice about believing the op or a tpg like pcgs (excluding myself and/or an expert if needed) on a grade of a coin you bet I would go with the tpg, who wouldn't. Raw if fine, all ebay is doing is taking the grade out of the title as many have already stated one can put anything they wish in the description. >>
If buyers are educated about grading (And I prefer to sell to buyers who are) then I would go out of business for overgrading, since I have a no questions asked return policy. Some coins do not need to be slabbed, and some collectors don't want them slabbed if they are for an album. There is still a strong market for various quality levels of raw Mint State coins. Ebay's policy tends to cast suspicion on raw coins (if it's not in plastic, there must be something wrong with it) or the concept that an honest seller and an educated buyer can confidently agree on the grade of a coin without relying on a number on a slab. >>
<< <i>
<< <i> With auctions like this one, for a 1930-S Lincoln Cent NTC Slab MS66RD Trends $500 under your belt, I can see why these changes would get you upset. Go ahead and tell me you thought that coin met the ANA standards for a 66RD. Either way, you're still welcome to list all that information in the body of the auction, just not the title. >>
Oh my!!! The OP is one of the targets of the new rule. I thought he was just an innocent casualty...good research Sean. >>
Frank,
You make some good points but you have to pick one side of the arguement and STAY ON THAT SIDE.
If you really believe that the coin should be graded not the holder why didn't we see an "honest" ANA grade of MS64 or less on that 1930-S penny?
Changing your selling philosophy depending on if a coin is certified or not, only diminishes your credibility and fighting for both sides of the argument insults the people on this board.
<< <i> If you really believe that the coin should be graded not the holder why didn't we see an "honest" ANA grade of MS64 or less on that 1930-S penny?
2004 W Silver American Eagle Proof. This is a wonderfully struck proof. No signs of hazing or spots. The coin comes with the Certificate of Authenticity, outer blue box and inner felt box, just as shipped to me from the U.S. mint. The detail on this coin is amazing. One can almost see the hair growing on Lady Liberty's toes.
That Walker that Frankcoins posted is MS-63, MS-64 on a good day, unless that scratch on the eagle is heavier than it looks, then it is a bodybag. That auction is classic "white collar overgrading", and I am glad they are no longer allowed.
<< <i>That Walker that Frankcoins posted is MS-63, MS-64 on a good day, unless that scratch on the eagle is heavier than it looks, then it is a bodybag. That auction is classic "white collar overgrading", and I am glad they are no longer allowed. >>
The "scratch" on the eagle is a die crack, I have always dealt honestly with people. I am an authorized dealer for PCGS and NGC, and they are the ONLY companies I have submitted coins to in the past 5 years. I also sell raw coins which are properly described and graded according to ANA standards. If I find a nice coin in a "third world" slab, I buy the coin - not the pastic - sight seen for what it is, and describe it for what it is. I don't play the crackout game, trying to get a coin in the "right" slab at the "highest possible" grade. I have even sold Accugrade coins with the proper grade permanently engraved in the plastic with an electric engraver.
I am a licensed Texas auctioneer, and I have conducted about 600 numismatic auctions in the past 17 years, all cataloged and described by me. I get most of the grading and attributions right...if I make a mistake, I will do everything I can to make it right.
If somehow I have shorted you in a numismatic transaction, by all means let me try and make you happy. But when people like zzzz, whom apparently has never done business with me accuses me of grading AU coins as MS65, being a "slimeball" and says FRANK stands for Foolish Rank Amiture Nutty Koinguy..all while hiding behind a fake name with no contact information...well, that's just a cheap personal attack by a coward.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i>How come pcgs list you as a contact for Causey's rare coins and not as an Authorized Dealer for Frank's Coins or Frank Provasek rare coins? http://home.netcom.com/~ropertex/ I wish Pcgs would update their website. >>
Been trying to get them to fix that since 2001.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
"regardless of whether this particular coin might be, in the opinion of the original poster, a "true" MS65."
isnt the grade on the plastic coffin also just an OPINION? dont folks crack the coins out (and the Cards) and resubmit them to death to get a different opinion?
<< <i> Your whining is old, especially when you either don't care for the rules or don't care to follow them. Also, you posted a thread recently asking whether or not only ANA members should post on ebay. >>
I never said that. Please post your proof
<< <i> Would the ANA like it if they knew you were intentionally breaking the new ebay TPG rules; rules that they helped ebay to forumulate?
>>
It was never the ANA's intention that rules would prohibit how raw coins are listed. It was to address CERTIFIED coins. The geniuses at eBay don't understand the difference between CERTIFIED and GRADED.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
I have been speaking out about this "New Regulation" since I first heard about it.
While I agree that something needs to be done about the issue, I don't feel ebay is doing the right thing with this new reg. It's censorship, violates my freedom of speech, and I don't even list grades in my titles or descriptions.
The way the reg reads we only value the opinions of the pre-approved....no one else has a say.
But hey I'm just one guy with one opinion that means nothing in the world of numismatics......welcome to the outcast island, population 2
Al >>
Isn't this a little dramatic? eBay is a privilege and not a right, so no violation of free speech. If you come into my home and start dropping f-bombs, me kicking you out the door is not violating free speech. I've just recently started collecting in the last year, and I was burned more than once before I had much knowledge of the industry. Mostly from B.S. "slabs" like GEC and NTC. I would have liked some protection back then.
I do love when someone brings up "Freedom of Speech". Truly sad that so many have no clue what that means. >>
Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Its the first Amendment of the US Constitution. The truly sad part is you have no clue what that means.
The people of the United States of America demand that our congress make no law abridging (to deprive; cut off) the freedom of speech, however its ok for company A to do so......?
The people of the United States of America demand that our congress make no law abridging (to deprive; cut off) the freedom of speech, however its ok for company A to do so......? >>
Yes
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i>The battles are over and the well connected TPGs have won. Numismatics today is all about plastic. Coins don't matter anymore. Even the almighty ebay says so. >>
As a new collector I have a hard time understanding what numismatics was like two decades ago before TPG's. So its not a travesty for me to see a coin in plastic. I still appreciate the beauty of coins in plastic or out. If I'm going to invest a significant amount of wealth into coins, however, I do like the assurance that a coin in PCGS or NGC plastic has been through the hands of someone more wise than myself. I keep hearing the complaint over and over again about plastic having had negative impact on the industry. Newbies like myself will inherit the industry and then we'll pass it on to the next generation. And newbies like myself who weren't around to cash in on the last seven years of astonishing price growth like having TPG credentials. I am not advocating blindly accepting plastic and foregoing a deeper knowledge of numismatics, yet TPGs are here to stay, so you'd better get used to them.
Perhaps this story will resonate with some of the members of this forum. My Dad used to give me silver dollars in the early 80's that he collected when visiting casinos in Reno and Las Vegas. In fact, these were the first coins of my budding collection. Recently I went home and asked him if he still had any lying around. He said that he did and showed me on old bulk size Kraft jar full of them. I begged him to let me go through them to find some to submit for grading. (Newbie Perspective) He couldn't see any reason to do so, but insisted on leaving them all in that jar for the future. Some day they would be worth something, he said. (Pre-TPG perspective) And yet, I can't ever think of them realizing any real value in the future without being in plastic because by the time he lets them go, or My brothers and I do, newer collectors will demand plastic for value.
Laugh if you will, and whether this is right or wrong, I still find it funny when I visit a store and can't pay with debit cards, or ask for a business's website and none exists. The fact is humanity spirals through time in a constant state of change. What was will only echo in what will be, and like the internet, TPGs are here to stay.
if I own a company big or small I have the right to do business with who I want to, and make my own rules of how things are going to be handled True: however you can not violate the constitution.
so if someone wants to use my services they have to follow my rules or they don't get to use my services. True
I have the right to refuse service to anyone who doesn't follow my rules. True but be prepared for a discrimination suit.
That is what freedom in the great U.S. of A is about. So I counter your argument, this isn't about free speech unless Ebay isn't an U.S. corporation which it is. Therefore Ebay makes the laws that govern it not us.
And frankly I like the fact that Ebay is finally waking up and taking responsibility for its business dealings, As I have already stated something needs to be done.
if they are going to run it they better be policing it and enforcing it or they will have anarchy, ebay does not police anything
Al do you remember what anarchy is, yes I do Anarchy is defined as a state of society without government or law.
now we can't in a free county have anarchy, True
what would the founding fathers say.
Ebay still needs to tweak things a bit, True
they aren't experts in all fields, The only field ebay is an expert in is web design and they probably out source that, Name 1 expert that works for ebay
they aren't going to understand all the nuamces of the coin business but they are getting closer to the mark.
So cut the free speech rhetoric, we are all patriots here. Patriot: a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion. I think the Constitution has been violated. As a Patriot I have and will defend it. >>
I didn't realize that NOBODY except for the TPG's knows how to grade. I think I will throw away my certificate in grading from the ANA classes I attended.
Advanced collector of BREWERIANA. Early beer advertising (beer cans, tap knobs, foam scrapers, trays, tin signs, lithos, paper, etc)....My first love...U.S. COINS!
A few people have spent a substantial amount of time combing through my past auctions and posting links only of the few oddball slabs I have sold, which gives the false impression that I primarily deal in "third world" slabs, or to second-guess my grading skills based on compressed JPEG images without actually examining the coins in hand.
This is the breakdown of the certification services of my eBay numismatic auctions since 1/1/2005 (2,114 items)
PCI (including Old Green) 3.7%
SEGS 2.8%
ANACS 16.6%
PCGS 27.7%
NGC 18.5%
ICG 7.7%
NTC and all others 2.7% (selected for quality sight-seen)
Raw 20.3%
Do you really think these characterizations are fair?
"lost [his] sales venue for crap slabs" (notwilight)
"another crap slabber goes down in flames" (Doogy)
"classic white collar overgrading" (connecticoin)
"you won't be selling for long on ebay" (AUandAG)
"a questionalble dealer...His listings don't justify the credibility that he speaks of in his posts" (Realone)
"slime ball, coin hyping..." (zzzz)
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
Frank just listed 7 more auctions, all in violation of the new policy (raw, putting a numerical grade in the title). Frank, are you TRYING to get NARU'd???
I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector. Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
<< <i>And this one with a price estimate of $1200 Link >>
Wow...
Looks like the OP should have tried to remain under the radar because it now looks like he is wide open for shot after shot.
Hey EBAY....thanks again for taking the first step you have >>
Yeah, I am a real bad guy...
"1910 Indian Head $5 GOLD piece (half eagle) is in a TCGS MS64 slab, although we feel that MS62 is the correct grade. We estimate the fair market value at about $1,200, so do not be misled by price guides showing higher prices for more strictly graded coins. In any case, your satisfaction with the coin for the price paid is what matters. "
These were listed BEFORE October 1, and we were told by our rep that the new policy would not be enforced until then, and probably for at least a month ,only for outrageous violations. Real odd that I have had about 15 listings cancelled since I posted here. It's like we can't discuss some solutions which would be more effective and more fair than what eBay has developed, without a bunch of little babies seeing how many of my auctions they can get nuked. I remember how Rick Snow got slimed about a year ago. Is this how you get your jollies? It's not a game, it's how I feed my family.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
I can't believe some people get worked up over a numerical grade in a title when compared to things like fake coins, doctored coins and keyword spamming.
In the grand scheme of things, I think this eBay "issue" is like an anthill compared to the Himalayas. And although I shed no tears for the crap slabbers and the gross overgraders, I think the policy as implemented is overkill and overly restrictive. Still, I don't think I have the right to play in someone else's sandbox with conduct the sandbox owners don't accept. I know it's naive, but I just wish other feasible sandboxes could be built. That's the usual free-market response, although this is a business which lends itself to the formation of natural monopolies.
Still, I don't like the slabbing oligopoly and the increasing stranglehold the TPGs have on the hobby. It's why I've sold almost all of my slabs and returned to raw, circulated album collecting. It's far more enjoyable and there's much less distracting BS.
FWIW, I have not reported any of Frank's auctions. But I do believe that he walks a fine line. I have cracked coins out of "bottom feeder" slabs and sold them raw, rather than perpetuate the possibility of someone presenting them for more than they are.
I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector. Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
<< <i>FWIW, I have not reported any of Frank's auctions. But I do believe that he walks a fine line. I have cracked coins out of "bottom feeder" slabs and sold them raw, rather than perpetuate the possibility of someone presenting them for more than they are. >>
And the problem is that you are now actively penalized by eBay if you don't reslab it in the "right" holder.
Someone like Jim Halperin could list raw coins on eBay and not be allowed to list a grade...but the slabbers are supposed to be "better" graders and thus allowed to do so? Rubbish.
<< <i>I do love when someone brings up "Freedom of Speech". Truly sad that so many have no clue what that means. >>
Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Its the first Amendment of the US Constitution. The truly sad part is you have no clue what that means.
The people of the United States of America demand that our congress make no law abridging (to deprive; cut off) the freedom of speech, however its ok for company A to do so......?
I would hate to defend that one in court.
Al >>
Thank you for proving my point, at least in your case.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
<< <i>And the problem is that you are now actively penalized by eBay if you don't reslab it in the "right" holder. >>
Again, what penalty? I don't use grades in the title when I sell raw coins, and they do just fine.
<< <i>Someone like Jim Halperin could list raw coins on eBay and not be allowed to list a grade. >>
He, like everybody else, would be able to list a grade in the description.
The bottom line is this: The ability to do well selling raw coins has nothing to do with listing a grade in the title, and everything to do with presenting large, clear images.
I don't have time to follow this today so I'll just say that I fully agree with what Russ is posting. Since Frank quoted one of my statements as "unfair" I will say I stand by what I said. I kept it factual and impersonal. I believe he is upset because he lost his venue for selling crap slabs.
I will say I understand his frustration and that of others who believe they know how to grade coins at not being able to put the grade in the title. If everyone knew how to grade, and eveyone was honest, then we wouldn't have to deal with rules...hey in utopia there would be no laws and no police...but we live in a world with dishonest people and even good graders have to follow the rules. We all suffer because of a few bad guys. The internet is my favorite example. With today's CPUs and high speed data capabilities, if it weren't for security encription and virus scanning the internet would be almost instantaneous.
Now Frank's previous auctions don't convince many readers including myself that he lists an hosest grade, even if he does know how to grade.
Item number: 200160395384 Title: 1853 $2.50 Gold Quarter Eagle AU55 Retail $300 No Min
Unfortunately, eBay has removed this listing. All bids or offers on this listing have been canceled. Because the listing was ended, you no longer have any obligation to purchase this item.
Listings are removed for different reasons. For example: - The way the item was listed may violate eBay policy. - The sale of the item may be prohibited by eBay. - The sale of the item may be prohibited by law. - The removal may be part of a separate action taken by eBay that is unrelated to the listing itself.
We hope you understand that, due to privacy concerns, we're unable to discuss the details of why this listing was ended. However, please note that the removal of this listing should not suggest that this seller's standing in the eBay Community has been called into question.
If you Frank, truly belive the coin to be an MS65, why not get the coin graded? You are leaving alot of money on the table by not having the coin slabbed. But maybe you know it won't go '65 so you sell it raw, thats fine but you just can't do it on ebay anymore. It's a company owned by shareholdes and they make the rules, either buy a TON of ebay shares and get on the board or quit crying and go somewhere else if you don't like their game.
<< <i>That Walker that Frankcoins posted is MS-63, MS-64 on a good day, unless that scratch on the eagle is heavier than it looks, then it is a bodybag. That auction is classic "white collar overgrading", and I am glad they are no longer allowed. >>
The "scratch" on the eagle is a die crack, I have always dealt honestly with people. I am an authorized dealer for PCGS and NGC, and they are the ONLY companies I have submitted coins to in the past 5 years. I also sell raw coins which are properly described and graded according to ANA standards. If I find a nice coin in a "third world" slab, I buy the coin - not the pastic - sight seen for what it is, and describe it for what it is. I don't play the crackout game, trying to get a coin in the "right" slab at the "highest possible" grade. I have even sold Accugrade coins with the proper grade permanently engraved in the plastic with an electric engraver.
I am a licensed Texas auctioneer, and I have conducted about 600 numismatic auctions in the past 17 years, all cataloged and described by me. I get most of the grading and attributions right...if I make a mistake, I will do everything I can to make it right.
If somehow I have shorted you in a numismatic transaction, by all means let me try and make you happy. But when people like zzzz, whom apparently has never done business with me accuses me of grading AU coins as MS65, being a "slimeball" and says FRANK stands for Foolish Rank Amiture Nutty Koinguy..all while hiding behind a fake name with no contact information...well, that's just a cheap personal attack by a coward. >>
I will bet you $100 that coin will not grade MS65 or higher at PCGS or NGC.
If you don't play by the rules here, you get the boot and are exiled to the land of sleep! If you don't play by E-Bays rules, you get the boot from there and are exiled to Yahoo auctions.
Frank, give it up and just learn to play by the rules.
It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!
<< <i>And this one with a price estimate of $1200 Link >>
Wow...
Looks like the OP should have tried to remain under the radar because it now looks like he is wide open for shot after shot.
Hey EBAY....thanks again for taking the first step you have >>
Yeah, I am a real bad guy...
"1910 Indian Head $5 GOLD piece (half eagle) is in a TCGS MS64 slab, although we feel that MS62 is the correct grade. We estimate the fair market value at about $1,200, so do not be misled by price guides showing higher prices for more strictly graded coins. In any case, your satisfaction with the coin for the price paid is what matters. "
These were listed BEFORE October 1, and we were told by our rep that the new policy would not be enforced until then, and probably for at least a month ,only for outrageous violations. Real odd that I have had about 15 listings cancelled since I posted here. It's like we can't discuss some solutions which would be more effective and more fair than what eBay has developed, without a bunch of little babies seeing how many of my auctions they can get nuked. I remember how Rick Snow got slimed about a year ago. Is this how you get your jollies? It's not a game, it's how I feed my family. >>
Hey Frank, You just quoted me then followed it by saying "Yeah, I am a real bad guy..."
I never said you were a bad guy I just said that by starting this post you really opened the door for shot after shot. I also believe that EBAY can do many many more things to improve itself, but at least they took a first step. For that I applaud them. I hate pulling up an auction advertising a 64 coin only to find an EF damaged coin in a bad 3 or 4 letter slab. Just follow their rules or take your ball and go home---no problem either way, they will still open for business tomorrow with or without you.
On BS&T Now: Nothing. Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up! Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
<< <i>. One thing that pisses me off more than anything is when an ebay seller says but he thinks the grade of the coin is, I have no problem with an ebay seller reciting the grade on the label. But the op didn't adhere to the guidelines period, the law is the law (ebay's law that is) so what makes him think he can out smart them or go outside of it is beyond me. I have nothing against the op, I just think in this particular case he is absolutely wrong thats all, he still is a good guy just musguided in this one incident. >>
So I guess that's what it has come down to --- the grade on the label.
I guess instead of selling quality raw coins which ebay will not let me properly describe, I should start hunting for ugly overgraded bottom-of-the barrel "approved slabs" which are available for half greysheet, which I can then promote at the "grade on the label" and reference the appropriate inflated price guide. >>
Bingo...apparently so. This is the problem with deciding who can grade and who can not. The Ebay Policy needs some work. In the end the big question is - are things better now than before?
<< <i>Edited to add: You can not state the grade if raw >>
I agree with the qoute above
Sure, we want to go home. We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home. - General George S. Patton
<< <i>My point was obviously missed, raw coins are great, there shouldn't be a problem selling them, just don't grade them for me because a good % of the time the ebay seller has been wrong and overgraded it. Now if it is in a tpg and the ebay seller recites what is on the label then he isn't grading it himself and the buyer can believe the label or not, his/her choice. But frankly I am sick of ebay sellers screwing buyers. Again we all know tpg's make errors but at least you can have a guarrantee of it being genuine. Now that is what Iwas talking about. >>
That is why there is a drop down menu when listing to indicate "certified" or "uncertified" so that a buyer can decide.
But ebay has taken down all of my auctions except for an old Sony Walkman radio.
Those cancelled include:
A 1917 $2 bill with three pieces of ancient cellophane tape was cancelled because it was not certified and I had listed a value in the description..."still worth face value of $2, of course"
An 1864 T-67 Confederate note, because "T-67" is a numerical grade
Several PCI old green label coins, put on with 10-day listings before October 1 were ended.
A 1976 US Mint set. Not certified. I mentioned $5.82 face value. Mentioning FACE value is a violation.
Other auctions were removed, according to the barely-English-speaking ebay customer service rep, "to be sure" because they might somehow be involved with illegal drugs. They had received a complaint about "hyping."
Wonder where the complaints came from?
Anything can be picked to death. Think vultures. Hope it doesn't happen to you, especially if you make your living selling coins.
I finally have gotten the attention of two ANA governors, especially since the ebay reps are blaming these "restraint of trade" actions on the ANA, which is, according to a 20 cent an hour contract employee in India, "a branch of the US Treasury Department."
I have been advised not to comment any further on this thread.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
Comments
Your current auctions still have crap slabs in them and several more have "grades" listed in the title. Your whining is old, especially when you either don't care for the rules or don't care to follow them. Also, you posted a thread recently asking whether or not only ANA members should post on ebay. Would the ANA like it if they knew you were intentionally breaking the new ebay TPG rules; rules that they helped ebay to forumulate?
original ebay thread.......
click here
<< <i>Has anybody read the following:Frank Provasek has a letter published in the October 8 Coin World that shines some common sense on Ebay's new policies. basically that bad sellers need to be weeded out rather than imposing more rules on honest sellers. I can't find a link on line but if you have the paper copy, you should read it. " >>
Based on the link that seanq posted, Frank belongs in the former group rather than the latter. And if ebay makes new rules to reign in the bad sellers, then the good sellers are just going to have to follow them. And most good sellers here haven't complained at all. At first we thought frank was an hosest seller caught in the crossfire and only guilty of not reading the new rules carefully enough. The we found out what he's been selling. So I'd say his letter is just an attempt to mitigate his loss of sale venue for crap slabs and overgraded raw coins.
--Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>Has anybody read the following:Frank Provasek has a letter published in the October 8 Coin World that shines some common sense on Ebay's new policies. basically that bad sellers need to be weeded out rather than imposing more rules on honest sellers. I can't find a link on line but if you have the paper copy, you should read it. " >>
Based on the link that seanq posted, Frank belongs in the former group rather than the latter. And if ebay makes new rules to reign in the bad sellers, then the good sellers are just going to have to follow them. And most good sellers here haven't complained at all. At first we thought frank was an hosest seller caught in the crossfire and only guilty of not reading the new rules carefully enough. The we found out what he's been selling. So I'd say his letter is just an attempt to mitigate his loss of sale venue for crap slabs and overgraded raw coins.
--Jerry >>
my thoughts exactly, another crap slabber goes down in flames
<< <i>They didn't accuse you of selling counterfeit coins. That eMail is a standard boiler plate that they send out when they end an auction.
Russ, NCNE >>
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
<< <i>Has anybody read the following:Frank Provasek has a letter published in the October 8 Coin World that
shines some common sense on Ebay's new policies. basically that bad sellers
need to be weeded out rather than imposing more rules on honest sellers. I
can't find a link on line but if you have the paper copy, you should read
it. " >>
<< <i>Poorly thought out
EBay’s new rules for selling coins are poorly thought out, relying on new listing rules rather than weeding out bad sellers.
EBay is telling us what slabs can be called "certified" (a good idea, but also banning services operated by J.T. Stanton and Larry Briggs), that we can’t use official American Numismatic Association numerical grades such as Very Fine 20 for raw coins, that it is more important to show a good picture of the plastic rather than a good picture of the coin, that we cannot mention retail or wholesale values of raw coins, or even the government issue price (I was told by a clueless eBay representative that mentioning that a 1963 Proof set was issued at $2.10 was a violation unless all five coins were in approved slabs!)
A crook can steal pictures of both sides of a slabbed coin from a Web site, collect the money and deliver nothing to the winning bidder, all while fully complying with eBay’s new "trust and safety" rules. Why doesn’t eBay offer a checkbox to show only listings from ANA members?
No seller would be forced to join the ANA. No buyer would be limited to buying only from ANA members. Sellers could list coins as they best see fit, based on their experience and reputation.
Frank Provasek
ANA member
Address withheld >>
Below it appears another letter from Gary Adkins PNG President:
<< <i>Courageous move
On behalf of the Professional Numismatists Guild, I would like to praise and congratulate eBay and the American Numismatic Association. EBay worked with the ANA and its advisory group, which included members of the PNG, to put a serious damper on fraud and deception as related to coin sales and auctions on eBay.
This was a courageous move by eBay, and no doubt a hit to their lucrative revenue stream.
Nonetheless, eBay took the high road and now will only accept "certified" coins from the four top grading services as evidenced by the annual survey that is cosponsored by the ANA, PNG and the Industry Council for Tangible Assets. This survey may be seen on the PNG Web site, www .PNGdealers.com. Other services may still be listed on eBay, but only as "raw" coins.
Unsuspecting buyers have been victims of overgraded, cleaned and even counterfeit coins that were sold as "certified" by some independent grading services that would not meet standards as generally accepted in the numismatic community. This new policy by eBay will certainly help to eradicate these abuses and help the credibility of their business model.
The Professional Numismatists Guild will continue to offer its assistance and advice, and work closely with eBay and the ANA to combat fraud and misleading advertising in the marketplace.
Gary Adkins
Edina, Minn.
President, PNG >>
<< <i>
<< <i> Frank, you make zero sense. Your grading expertise is only yours while being obvioulsy subjective the fact that you are a dealer adds a layer of self dealing, afterall you will benefit from overgrading therefore you have zero fiducuary obligation to your buyers, i.e. we just have to trust you, a dealer who will benefit from the transaction. I don't drink from the fountain of Koolaide, but I don't want to believe everything you have to say either. I rather grade the coin myself or get a second or third opinion form a disinterested third party or maybe have a tpg that I trust grade the coin, or all three. I happen to always wonder why a coin that as you say is tunning isn't slabbed by one of Ebay's approved tpgers. If I had my choice about believing the op or a tpg like pcgs (excluding myself and/or an expert if needed) on a grade of a coin you bet I would go with the tpg, who wouldn't. Raw if fine, all ebay is doing is taking the grade out of the title as many have already stated one can put anything they wish in the description. >>
If buyers are educated about grading (And I prefer to sell to buyers who are) then I would go out of business for overgrading, since I have a no questions asked return policy. Some coins do not need to be slabbed, and some collectors don't want them slabbed if they are for an album. There is still a strong market for various quality levels of raw Mint State coins. Ebay's policy tends to cast suspicion on raw coins (if it's not in plastic, there must be something wrong with it) or the concept that an honest seller and an educated buyer can confidently agree on the grade of a coin without relying on a number on a slab. >>
<< <i>
<< <i> With auctions like this one, for a 1930-S Lincoln Cent NTC Slab MS66RD Trends $500 under your belt, I can see why these changes would get you upset. Go ahead and tell me you thought that coin met the ANA standards for a 66RD. Either way, you're still welcome to list all that information in the body of the auction, just not the title. >>
Oh my!!!
Frank,
You make some good points but you have to pick one side of the arguement and STAY ON THAT SIDE.
If you really believe that the coin should be graded not the holder why didn't we see an "honest" ANA grade of MS64 or less on that 1930-S penny?
Changing your selling philosophy depending on if a coin is certified or not, only diminishes your credibility and fighting for both sides of the argument insults the people on this board.
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
<< <i>
If you really believe that the coin should be graded not the holder why didn't we see an "honest" ANA grade of MS64 or less on that 1930-S penny?
>>
Ouch. That's gotta hurt.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Remember: The idea is to have fun with coins
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>That Walker that Frankcoins posted is MS-63, MS-64 on a good day, unless that scratch on the eagle is heavier than it looks, then it is a bodybag. That auction is classic "white collar overgrading", and I am glad they are no longer allowed. >>
The "scratch" on the eagle is a die crack, I have always dealt honestly with people. I am an authorized dealer for PCGS and NGC, and they are the ONLY companies I have submitted coins to in the past 5 years. I also sell raw coins which are properly described and graded according to ANA standards. If I find a nice coin in a "third world" slab, I buy the coin - not the pastic - sight seen for what it is, and describe it for what it is. I don't play the crackout game, trying to get a coin in the "right" slab at the "highest possible" grade. I have even sold Accugrade coins with the proper grade permanently engraved in the plastic with an electric engraver.
I am a licensed Texas auctioneer, and I have conducted about 600 numismatic auctions in the past 17 years, all cataloged and described by me. I get most of the grading and attributions right...if I make a mistake, I will do everything I can to make it right.
If somehow I have shorted you in a numismatic transaction, by all means let me try and make you happy. But when people like zzzz, whom apparently has
never done business with me accuses me of grading AU coins as MS65, being a "slimeball" and says FRANK stands for Foolish Rank Amiture Nutty Koinguy..all while hiding behind a fake name with no contact information...well, that's just a cheap personal attack by a coward.
<< <i>How come pcgs list you as a contact for Causey's rare coins and not as an Authorized Dealer for Frank's Coins or Frank Provasek rare coins? http://home.netcom.com/~ropertex/
I wish Pcgs would update their website. >>
Been trying to get them to fix that since 2001.
isnt the grade on the plastic coffin also just an OPINION? dont folks crack the coins out (and the Cards) and resubmit them to death to get a different opinion?
<< <i> Your whining is old, especially when you either don't care for the rules or don't care to follow them. Also, you posted a thread recently asking whether or not only ANA members should post on ebay. >>
I never said that. Please post your proof
<< <i> Would the ANA like it if they knew you were intentionally breaking the new ebay TPG rules; rules that they helped ebay to forumulate?
>>
It was never the ANA's intention that rules would prohibit how raw coins are listed. It was to address CERTIFIED coins. The geniuses at eBay don't understand the difference between CERTIFIED and GRADED.
<< <i>Frankcoins,
I have been speaking out about this "New Regulation" since I first heard about it.
While I agree that something needs to be done about the issue, I don't feel ebay is doing the right thing with this new reg. It's censorship, violates my freedom of speech, and I don't even list grades in my titles or descriptions.
The way the reg reads we only value the opinions of the pre-approved....no one else has a say.
But hey I'm just one guy with one opinion that means nothing in the world of numismatics......welcome to the outcast island, population 2
Al >>
Isn't this a little dramatic? eBay is a privilege and not a right, so no violation of free speech. If you come into my home and start dropping f-bombs, me kicking you out the door is not violating free speech. I've just recently started collecting in the last year, and I was burned more than once before I had much knowledge of the industry. Mostly from B.S. "slabs" like GEC and NTC. I would have liked some protection back then.
I do love when someone brings up "Freedom of Speech". Truly sad that so many have no clue what that means. >>
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Its the first Amendment of the US Constitution. The truly sad part is you have no clue what that means.
The people of the United States of America demand that our congress make no law abridging (to deprive; cut off) the freedom of speech, however its ok for company A to do so......?
I would hate to defend that one in court.
Al
<< <i>
The people of the United States of America demand that our congress make no law abridging (to deprive; cut off) the freedom of speech, however its ok for company A to do so......? >>
Yes
<< <i>The battles are over and the well connected TPGs have won. Numismatics today is all about plastic. Coins don't matter anymore. Even the almighty ebay says so.
As a new collector I have a hard time understanding what numismatics was like two decades ago before TPG's. So its not a travesty for me to see a coin in plastic. I still appreciate the beauty of coins in plastic or out. If I'm going to invest a significant amount of wealth into coins, however, I do like the assurance that a coin in PCGS or NGC plastic has been through the hands of someone more wise than myself. I keep hearing the complaint over and over again about plastic having had negative impact on the industry. Newbies like myself will inherit the industry and then we'll pass it on to the next generation. And newbies like myself who weren't around to cash in on the last seven years of astonishing price growth like having TPG credentials. I am not advocating blindly accepting plastic and foregoing a deeper knowledge of numismatics, yet TPGs are here to stay, so you'd better get used to them.
Perhaps this story will resonate with some of the members of this forum. My Dad used to give me silver dollars in the early 80's that he collected when visiting casinos in Reno and Las Vegas. In fact, these were the first coins of my budding collection. Recently I went home and asked him if he still had any lying around. He said that he did and showed me on old bulk size Kraft jar full of them. I begged him to let me go through them to find some to submit for grading. (Newbie Perspective) He couldn't see any reason to do so, but insisted on leaving them all in that jar for the future. Some day they would be worth something, he said. (Pre-TPG perspective) And yet, I can't ever think of them realizing any real value in the future without being in plastic because by the time he lets them go, or My brothers and I do, newer collectors will demand plastic for value.
Laugh if you will, and whether this is right or wrong, I still find it funny when I visit a store and can't pay with debit cards, or ask for a business's website and none exists. The fact is humanity spirals through time in a constant state of change. What was will only echo in what will be, and like the internet, TPGs are here to stay.
<< <i>Dear Al,
if I own a company big or small I have the right to do business with who I want to, and make my own rules of how things are going to be handled True: however you can not violate the constitution.
so if someone wants to use my services they have to follow my rules or they don't get to use my services. True
I have the right to refuse service to anyone who doesn't follow my rules. True but be prepared for a discrimination suit.
That is what freedom in the great U.S. of A is about. So I counter your argument, this isn't about free speech unless Ebay isn't an U.S. corporation which it is. Therefore Ebay makes the laws that govern it not us.
And frankly I like the fact that Ebay is finally waking up and taking responsibility for its business dealings, As I have already stated something needs to be done.
if they are going to run it they better be policing it and enforcing it or they will have anarchy, ebay does not police anything
Al do you remember what anarchy is, yes I do Anarchy is defined as a state of society without government or law.
now we can't in a free county have anarchy, True
what would the founding fathers say.
Ebay still needs to tweak things a bit, True
they aren't experts in all fields, The only field ebay is an expert in is web design and they probably out source that, Name 1 expert that works for ebay
they aren't going to understand all the nuamces of the coin business but they are getting closer to the mark.
So cut the free speech rhetoric, we are all patriots here. Patriot: a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion. I think the Constitution has been violated. As a Patriot I have and will defend it.
>>
AL
my past auctions and posting links only of the few oddball slabs I have sold,
which gives the false impression that I primarily deal in "third world" slabs, or
to second-guess my grading skills based on compressed JPEG images without
actually examining the coins in hand.
This is the breakdown of the certification services of my eBay
numismatic auctions since 1/1/2005 (2,114 items)
PCI (including Old Green) 3.7%
SEGS 2.8%
ANACS 16.6%
PCGS 27.7%
NGC 18.5%
ICG 7.7%
NTC and all others 2.7% (selected for quality sight-seen)
Raw 20.3%
Do you really think these characterizations are fair?
"lost [his] sales venue for crap slabs" (notwilight)
"another crap slabber goes down in flames" (Doogy)
"classic white collar overgrading" (connecticoin)
"you won't be selling for long on ebay" (AUandAG)
"a questionalble dealer...His listings don't justify the credibility that he speaks of in his posts" (Realone)
"slime ball, coin hyping..." (zzzz)
Herb
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
<< <i>
<< <i>And this one with a price estimate of $1200
Link >>
Wow...
Looks like the OP should have tried to remain under the radar because
it now looks like he is wide open for shot after shot.
Hey EBAY....thanks again for taking the first step you have
Yeah, I am a real bad guy...
"1910 Indian Head $5 GOLD piece (half eagle) is in a TCGS MS64 slab, although we feel that MS62 is the correct grade. We estimate the fair market value at about $1,200, so do not be misled by price guides showing higher prices for more strictly graded coins. In any case, your satisfaction with the coin for the price paid is what matters. "
These were listed BEFORE October 1, and we were told by our rep that the new policy would not be enforced until then, and probably for at least a month ,only for outrageous violations. Real odd that I have had about 15 listings cancelled since I posted here. It's like we can't discuss some solutions which would be more effective and more fair than what eBay has developed, without a bunch of little babies seeing how many of my auctions they can get nuked. I remember how Rick Snow got slimed about a year ago. Is this how you get your jollies? It's not a game, it's how I feed my family.
In the grand scheme of things, I think this eBay "issue" is like an anthill compared to the Himalayas. And although I shed no tears for the crap slabbers and the gross overgraders, I think the policy as implemented is overkill and overly restrictive. Still, I don't think I have the right to play in someone else's sandbox with conduct the sandbox owners don't accept. I know it's naive, but I just wish other feasible sandboxes could be built. That's the usual free-market response, although this is a business which lends itself to the formation of natural monopolies.
Still, I don't like the slabbing oligopoly and the increasing stranglehold the TPGs have on the hobby. It's why I've sold almost all of my slabs and returned to raw, circulated album collecting. It's far more enjoyable and there's much less distracting BS.
Good morning, Frank,
I'm a bad boy, too
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>can we assume you reported them?
The sad part of people picking on Frank is the fact that the major auction houses paint a lot more raw turds than Frank could ever hope to.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
<< <i>FWIW, I have not reported any of Frank's auctions. But I do believe that he walks a fine line. I have cracked coins out of "bottom feeder" slabs and sold them raw, rather than perpetuate the possibility of someone presenting them for more than they are. >>
And the problem is that you are now actively penalized by eBay if you don't reslab it in the "right" holder.
Someone like Jim Halperin could list raw coins on eBay and not be allowed to list a grade...but the slabbers are supposed to be "better" graders and thus allowed to do so? Rubbish.
<< <i>I do love when someone brings up "Freedom of Speech". Truly sad that so many have no clue what that means. >>
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Its the first Amendment of the US Constitution. The truly sad part is you have no clue what that means.
The people of the United States of America demand that our congress make no law abridging (to deprive; cut off) the freedom of speech, however its ok for company A to do so......?
I would hate to defend that one in court.
Al >>
Thank you for proving my point, at least in your case.
<< <i>And the problem is that you are now actively penalized by eBay if you don't reslab it in the "right" holder. >>
Again, what penalty? I don't use grades in the title when I sell raw coins, and they do just fine.
<< <i>Someone like Jim Halperin could list raw coins on eBay and not be allowed to list a grade. >>
He, like everybody else, would be able to list a grade in the description.
The bottom line is this: The ability to do well selling raw coins has nothing to do with listing a grade in the title, and everything to do with presenting large, clear images.
Russ, NCNE
I will say I understand his frustration and that of others who believe they know how to grade coins at not being able to put the grade in the title. If everyone knew how to grade, and eveyone was honest, then we wouldn't have to deal with rules...hey in utopia there would be no laws and no police...but we live in a world with dishonest people and even good graders have to follow the rules. We all suffer because of a few bad guys. The internet is my favorite example. With today's CPUs and high speed data capabilities, if it weren't for security encription and virus scanning the internet would be almost instantaneous.
Now Frank's previous auctions don't convince many readers including myself that he lists an hosest grade, even if he does know how to grade.
--Jerry
Dear public-auction
Thank you for your bid on the following listing:
Item number: 200160395384
Title: 1853 $2.50 Gold Quarter Eagle AU55 Retail $300 No Min
Unfortunately, eBay has removed this listing. All bids or offers on this listing have been canceled. Because the listing was ended, you no longer have any obligation to purchase this item.
Listings are removed for different reasons. For example:
- The way the item was listed may violate eBay policy.
- The sale of the item may be prohibited by eBay.
- The sale of the item may be prohibited by law.
- The removal may be part of a separate action taken by eBay that is unrelated to the listing itself.
We hope you understand that, due to privacy concerns, we're unable to discuss the details of why this listing was ended. However, please note that the removal of this listing should not suggest that this seller's standing in the eBay Community has been called into question.
<< <i>
<< <i>That Walker that Frankcoins posted is MS-63, MS-64 on a good day, unless that scratch on the eagle is heavier than it looks, then it is a bodybag. That auction is classic "white collar overgrading", and I am glad they are no longer allowed. >>
The "scratch" on the eagle is a die crack, I have always dealt honestly with people. I am an authorized dealer for PCGS and NGC, and they are the ONLY companies I have submitted coins to in the past 5 years. I also sell raw coins which are properly described and graded according to ANA standards. If I find a nice coin in a "third world" slab, I buy the coin - not the pastic - sight seen for what it is, and describe it for what it is. I don't play the crackout game, trying to get a coin in the "right" slab at the "highest possible" grade. I have even sold Accugrade coins with the proper grade permanently engraved in the plastic with an electric engraver.
I am a licensed Texas auctioneer, and I have conducted about 600 numismatic auctions in the past 17 years, all cataloged and described by me. I get most of the grading and attributions right...if I make a mistake, I will do everything I can to make it right.
If somehow I have shorted you in a numismatic transaction, by all means let me try and make you happy. But when people like zzzz, whom apparently has
never done business with me accuses me of grading AU coins as MS65, being a "slimeball" and says FRANK stands for Foolish Rank Amiture Nutty Koinguy..all while hiding behind a fake name with no contact information...well, that's just a cheap personal attack by a coward. >>
I will bet you $100 that coin will not grade MS65 or higher at PCGS or NGC.
If you don't play by the rules here, you get the boot and are exiled to the land of sleep! If you don't play by E-Bays rules, you get the boot from there and are exiled to Yahoo auctions.
Frank, give it up and just learn to play by the rules.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>And this one with a price estimate of $1200
Link >>
Wow...
Looks like the OP should have tried to remain under the radar because
it now looks like he is wide open for shot after shot.
Hey EBAY....thanks again for taking the first step you have
Yeah, I am a real bad guy...
"1910 Indian Head $5 GOLD piece (half eagle) is in a TCGS MS64 slab, although we feel that MS62 is the correct grade. We estimate the fair market value at about $1,200, so do not be misled by price guides showing higher prices for more strictly graded coins. In any case, your satisfaction with the coin for the price paid is what matters. "
These were listed BEFORE October 1, and we were told by our rep that the new policy would not be enforced until then, and probably for at least a month ,only for outrageous violations. Real odd that I have had about 15 listings cancelled since I posted here. It's like we can't discuss some solutions which would be more effective and more fair than what eBay has developed, without a bunch of little babies seeing how many of my auctions they can get nuked. I remember how Rick Snow got slimed about a year ago. Is this how you get your jollies? It's not a game, it's how I feed my family. >>
Hey Frank,
You just quoted me then followed it by saying "Yeah, I am a real bad guy..."
I never said you were a bad guy I just said that by starting this post you really opened the door for shot after shot.
I also believe that EBAY can do many many more things to improve itself, but at least they took a first step. For that I applaud them.
I hate pulling up an auction advertising a 64 coin only to find an EF damaged coin in a bad 3 or 4 letter slab.
Just follow their rules or take your ball and go home---no problem either way, they will still open for business tomorrow with or without you.
All in jest...
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
<< <i>
<< <i>. One thing that pisses me off more than anything is when an ebay seller says but he thinks the grade of the coin is, I have no problem with an ebay seller reciting the grade on the label. But the op didn't adhere to the guidelines period, the law is the law (ebay's law that is) so what makes him think he can out smart them or go outside of it is beyond me. I have nothing against the op, I just think in this particular case he is absolutely wrong thats all, he still is a good guy just musguided in this one incident. >>
So I guess that's what it has come down to --- the grade on the label.
I guess instead of selling quality raw coins which ebay will not let me properly describe, I should start hunting for ugly overgraded bottom-of-the barrel "approved slabs" which are available for half greysheet, which I can then promote at the "grade on the label" and reference the appropriate inflated price guide. >>
Bingo...apparently so. This is the problem with deciding who can grade and who can not. The Ebay Policy needs some work. In the end the big question is - are things better now than before?
<< <i>Edited to add: You can not state the grade if raw >>
I agree with the qoute above
<< <i>My point was obviously missed, raw coins are great, there shouldn't be a problem selling them, just don't grade them for me because a good % of the time the ebay seller has been wrong and overgraded it. Now if it is in a tpg and the ebay seller recites what is on the label then he isn't grading it himself and the buyer can believe the label or not, his/her choice. But frankly I am sick of ebay sellers screwing buyers. Again we all know tpg's make errors but at least you can have a guarrantee of it being genuine. Now that is what Iwas talking about. >>
That is why there is a drop down menu when listing to indicate "certified" or "uncertified" so that a buyer can decide.
But ebay has taken down all of my auctions except for an old Sony Walkman radio.
Those cancelled include:
A 1917 $2 bill with three pieces of ancient cellophane tape was cancelled because it was not certified and I had listed a value in the description..."still worth face value of $2, of course"
An 1864 T-67 Confederate note, because "T-67" is a numerical grade
Several PCI old green label coins, put on with 10-day listings before October 1 were ended.
A 1976 US Mint set. Not certified. I mentioned $5.82 face value. Mentioning FACE value is a violation.
Other auctions were removed, according to the barely-English-speaking ebay customer service rep, "to be sure" because they might somehow be involved with illegal drugs. They had received a complaint about "hyping."
Wonder where the complaints came from?
Anything can be picked to death. Think vultures. Hope it doesn't happen to you, especially if you make your living selling coins.
I finally have gotten the attention of two ANA governors, especially since the ebay reps are blaming these "restraint of trade" actions on the ANA, which is, according to a 20 cent an hour contract employee in India, "a branch of the US Treasury Department."
I have been advised not to comment any further on this thread.
Good idea!!!
Herb
<< <i><<I have been advised not to comment any further on this thread>>
Good idea!!!
Herb >>
I knew he would not take me up on the bet. Checkmate.