now can i get a word in my defense.
80sJunkie
Posts: 1,314
Posting in the slanderous allegation thread is useless so here it is my explanations. take em how you wish or dont take them. This has been eating at me to where i cant sleep.
I am going to explain this in 2 parts. part one the cu forum and part 2 the ebay allegations.
Why this way because as ive told others ebay is buisness these forums i thought were all about the hobby and us guys getting together and having fun.
here we go part one the cu forums. short and to the point this was never about making money these rips were some of us getting together and haveing fun. I never wanted to break anyones trust and i stand by all the rips that they were legit and packs were not resealed searched or tampered with in anyway. for the basketball rip i offered to buy back all the packs and rip them myself.That is the truth and all im gonna say.
now ebay this is about buisness and i know how it may look now if you dont have any buisness sense try to play along. what have i gotten from all these rips. lots of empty boxes right. what can you do with those toss them or come up with creative ways to make money and i dont mean resealing. example the 76 football box from the rip yes AFTER the packs were sent out i purchased 76 wrappers on ebay and raw cards. plan was to sell the empty box 36 empty wrappers and the cards in 1 lot on ebay same with the 84 football. think what you want thats what ive been doing. example again the 74 topps baseball boxes i have been selling on ebay.
now someones gonna steal this idea.
i buy 18 2 card wax packs from bbce for 144 buy a empty 74 box on ebay for 30 thats 177 right turn around put it on ebay as a 74 box with 18 2 card packs final price 400 nice profit right . Thats buisness exactly what i planned for the stuff ive been buying. ive bought this stuff only after the rip packs were already gone. like the 78 rip i asked steve for the empty case im gonna sell my full box along with the empty case on ebay. again to make a profit. another example i have a empty 87 fleer basketball box from the rip picked up 34 empty wrappers on the bay 2nite for 5 bucks now i put them toghether oon ebay bet i make more then 5 bucks wont I Thats is the only thing im guilty of is coming up with creative ways to market and sell stuff on ebay. i have never even thought of resealing a pack
yes i have a few negs on ebay but also thousands of positive. the negs that claimed resealed are some poeple who demanded a refund because they didnt pull a money card. we all know not every single box will have one. kinda like on here some have pulled money cards from the rips and those that have not are jumping my chit because of these allegations and demanding refunds. come on guys you dont buy a lotto ticket scratch it and take it back when you lose right.
cdsnuts did some digging and yes i admit at first it could look bad but no one bothered to ask where i was getting 4 from my 2 and 2. Instead everyone was quick to join the gary bashing party over half of whom were never involved in any of the rips. some cry civil suit i cry slander suit on anyone not involved in the rips. you guys shot first without asking and pretty much ruined my credibility and some friendships ive made on here. and when all this smoke clears those who thought i resealed any of the rip packs i hope you feel like chit when you find out the truth.
this has been the worst night of my life for the first time ever i just want to throw my collection in the attic and forget about it. Ive never felt like this you guys who tried to trash me have ruined what i love about this hobby.
so there are my words take em however you want. in another thread someone said i hope this does not end the rips. i hope not eother whoever takes over the task i hope you guys have as much fun as weve had before. i hope i answered most everything here
I am going to explain this in 2 parts. part one the cu forum and part 2 the ebay allegations.
Why this way because as ive told others ebay is buisness these forums i thought were all about the hobby and us guys getting together and having fun.
here we go part one the cu forums. short and to the point this was never about making money these rips were some of us getting together and haveing fun. I never wanted to break anyones trust and i stand by all the rips that they were legit and packs were not resealed searched or tampered with in anyway. for the basketball rip i offered to buy back all the packs and rip them myself.That is the truth and all im gonna say.
now ebay this is about buisness and i know how it may look now if you dont have any buisness sense try to play along. what have i gotten from all these rips. lots of empty boxes right. what can you do with those toss them or come up with creative ways to make money and i dont mean resealing. example the 76 football box from the rip yes AFTER the packs were sent out i purchased 76 wrappers on ebay and raw cards. plan was to sell the empty box 36 empty wrappers and the cards in 1 lot on ebay same with the 84 football. think what you want thats what ive been doing. example again the 74 topps baseball boxes i have been selling on ebay.
now someones gonna steal this idea.
i buy 18 2 card wax packs from bbce for 144 buy a empty 74 box on ebay for 30 thats 177 right turn around put it on ebay as a 74 box with 18 2 card packs final price 400 nice profit right . Thats buisness exactly what i planned for the stuff ive been buying. ive bought this stuff only after the rip packs were already gone. like the 78 rip i asked steve for the empty case im gonna sell my full box along with the empty case on ebay. again to make a profit. another example i have a empty 87 fleer basketball box from the rip picked up 34 empty wrappers on the bay 2nite for 5 bucks now i put them toghether oon ebay bet i make more then 5 bucks wont I Thats is the only thing im guilty of is coming up with creative ways to market and sell stuff on ebay. i have never even thought of resealing a pack
yes i have a few negs on ebay but also thousands of positive. the negs that claimed resealed are some poeple who demanded a refund because they didnt pull a money card. we all know not every single box will have one. kinda like on here some have pulled money cards from the rips and those that have not are jumping my chit because of these allegations and demanding refunds. come on guys you dont buy a lotto ticket scratch it and take it back when you lose right.
cdsnuts did some digging and yes i admit at first it could look bad but no one bothered to ask where i was getting 4 from my 2 and 2. Instead everyone was quick to join the gary bashing party over half of whom were never involved in any of the rips. some cry civil suit i cry slander suit on anyone not involved in the rips. you guys shot first without asking and pretty much ruined my credibility and some friendships ive made on here. and when all this smoke clears those who thought i resealed any of the rip packs i hope you feel like chit when you find out the truth.
this has been the worst night of my life for the first time ever i just want to throw my collection in the attic and forget about it. Ive never felt like this you guys who tried to trash me have ruined what i love about this hobby.
so there are my words take em however you want. in another thread someone said i hope this does not end the rips. i hope not eother whoever takes over the task i hope you guys have as much fun as weve had before. i hope i answered most everything here
0
Comments
I've been a part of almost all of your rips. Most have yielded little in terms of star power or high grades --- but each has been fun. I know you've put a ton of work into organizing --- it has not gone unnoticed from my viewpoint.
I believe you at your word above.
There are some pictures that lead to questions (like the 86 Fleer box and the 84 football box looking as though it came from ebay and not from Steve) ---- and the digging and subsequent concern by Lee and others was fair in my opinion given the buying pattern and ebay feedback ---- but overall you got hit with a freight train tonight.
Thanks for stepping up and speaking out.
Sincerely,
Tom
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
Get some sleep ... and bring your shovel in the morning!
-t
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
<< <i>
now ebay this is about buisness and i know how it may look now if you dont have any buisness sense try to play along. what have i gotten from all these rips. lots of empty boxes right. what can you do with those toss them or come up with creative ways to make money and i dont mean resealing. example the 76 football box from the rip yes AFTER the packs were sent out i purchased 76 wrappers on ebay and raw cards. plan was to sell the empty box 36 empty wrappers and the cards in 1 lot on ebay same with the 84 football. think what you want thats what ive been doing. example again the 74 topps baseball boxes i have been selling on ebay.
now someones gonna steal this idea.
>>
Sorry to make you tip your hand, Trump.
But, a lot of the evidence is/was pretty damning. How do you explain the editing of your posts as this was blowing up? You really can't blame the guys involved in the rips for having their doubts.
I guess time will probably tell on this whole deal. In the mean time, I would steer clear of organizing any more box breaks.
1) IF i knew that another eBay dealer was reselling empty boxes, used wrappers or any combonation of materials which were not ORIGINALLY packaged together for retail sale, i would stay as far away from said dealer and their customers as possible.....the folks who buy this stuff are similarly motivated and it doesn't take a genius to figure out their intentions, especially if they, too, are dealers....
2) IF i knew that another eBay dealer was taking unfair advantage of people whose ambitions have been made rather clear in a public forum, by becoming a shrewd opportunist, i would not attribute that to good business methods as much as quite simply being a user.....once again, i'd stay far away....
Gary, i don't know you well enough to pass judgement on you, so i won't.....the people who are taking shots at you right now have too much evidence to support their claims....i am embarrassed for our hobby....i ain't no angel, but i know how to do business, and it ain't just about making a profit on a smooth deal....if you destroy the trust you instilled in people, you won't get it back and this is the ONLY business community that will consistently support you in this.....there are not a bunch of other collector clubs out there with similar people who have similar intentions.....i hope you can become a very good repairman, because that skill is going to be required just to make things remotely sensible again.....Good Luck.
i don't know you but know that fraud and slander are both equally offensive charges to bring against anyone, especiallly someone who has never been found in the wrong for any of the allegations.
starting a thread about kicking his a$$ and mocking his physical appearance is fun, but not really fun if he never did anything, more specifically to any of the people who went out of their way to dogg him out.
this sucks for everyone and i am sorry.
julen
RIP GURU
<< <i>
now ebay this is about buisness and i know how it may look now if you dont have any buisness sense try to play along. what have i gotten from all these rips. lots of empty boxes right. what can you do with those toss them or come up with creative ways to make money and i dont mean resealing. example the 76 football box from the rip yes AFTER the packs were sent out i purchased 76 wrappers on ebay and raw cards. plan was to sell the empty box 36 empty wrappers and the cards in 1 lot on ebay same with the 84 football. think what you want thats what ive been doing. example again the 74 topps baseball boxes i have been selling on ebay.
now someones gonna steal this idea.
>>
Lets see, so you have raw cards, empty boxes and the wrappers. You were gonna put them on ebay and sell them as a lot. This is probably one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.
Now, if you are catering to fellow scumbags that just want to buy these lots and SCAM other people it all makes sense to me.
Sorry but there is no way you did not have bad intentions with these lots towards the great board members of this forum and the poor suckers who bought your resealed crap on ebay.
Now, the only thing left for you to do is pick up your boxes, wrappers and resealing iron and hit the bricks.
Bye Bye
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
People cling to the belief that a person is innocent until proven guilty. There are people out there that believe that "other " people are too stupid to present guilt and should be left to lawyers and the courts. When someone breaks into your house, with a weapon and you defend yourself with a weapon, guess who gets in trouble. Criminals have rights you know.
These are the same people that try to convince all of us, THAT ITS SOME HOW POSSIBLE TO PICK UP A TURD BY THE CLEAN END.
By the way , he ended all of his ebay auctions overnight.Please keep up the good work. I know someone else has this as their bottom line but--- The ONLY thing that evil needs to susceed is for goog people to do nothing. Thanks , Sonny
Personally I don't see the business savy in selling opened boxes, wrappers and raw cards in a single lot. But there are a tons of undiscovered business models out there...
REPEAT - You still have not explained about the similarity between the boxes.
Shane
<< <i>You still have not explained about the similarity between the boxes.
REPEAT - You still have not explained about the similarity between the boxes. >>
Those boxes are not similar. They are IDENTICAL.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Good luck,
Kyle
This is the smoking gun IMO.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Why pull a Watergate and edit everything out of many of your posts concerning the last rip? To an outsider looking in, that would have to be a huge red flag. >>
He has offered nothing but plausible deniability on this issue. He has been acting guilty, because he IS guilty.
If there were a few coincidences, then the witch hunt was completely unjustified. Having said that, there is overwhelming evidence against you and in my honest opinion, you should clear the air on everything.
If you just want to half-arse this, that's your call and the mob mentality will reflect it. However, if these allegations were brought up against me, I would make dam sure that EVERYONE knew I was on the up and up.
For example:
1) What happened to the '85 Topps Football box?
2) Why did you purchase numerous '84 Football wrappers and commons in January, request a case break, and then go back and edit the thread?
3) Why did you insist to do the shipping only to go back and edit your posts after BBCE offered to handle the shipping. It was almost as if you were disappointed... For those who read your posts prior to your edits can confirm this.
4) What happened to plastering your bar with 80's wrappers? Your story has now changed to selling them on eBay.
5) What is the real story behind the '86 Fleer Basketball box? Two different stories, one box.
These are just a few examples off the top of my head.
Help me help you, Gary. Help me help you....
<< <i>wow, there are actually people defending this guy. somebody's passing the crow pie all around >>
If this was directed towards me, I will say I am not defending him, it appears that people that were not involved with the pack rips are taking there shots at him on other threads. I am still trying to see where the dust settles. If this was not directed at me then my apologies.
Maybe its just me, but I think high of alot of people here and to see this happen just makes me ill.
I hope this all is just a big misunderstanding and we can get back to what we all have in common here.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
- I know most of you are trying to help, but the piling on of insults to Gary is giving this thread the feeling of a mob mentality. We are not out to roast the guy, we just want explanations of why all the fishy have been going on. If you don't have anything to say that is directly related to the evidence or the pack rips, please save your thoughts or start another thread. We are simply trying to get the facts out and insults and personal thoughts interfere with that information. With that said, those of us that feel ripped off appreciate the support, as I'm sure Gary appreciates the support of those that have taken his side.
- Just to make it clear- Gary has only (as far as I know) edited the post in which he was trying to start an 84 FB case rip. Please stop bringing up the fact that he's edited all of his posts because that is not true.
- There is still no accounting for the exact overlap in wrappers, singles, and boxes Gary bought from ebay, and the boxes and packs we've been ripping. Are we to believe that 21 out of the 33 items purchased are just coincidentally the same things we've been opening? And the explanation that he's selling singles wrappers and boxes as a full lot really hold no weight because it makes absolutely no sense. That's like selling a "make your own resealed box" kit. Besides, he hasn't sold a lot like that once of the stuff he's been buying on ebay. All I see is the 1974 box that really has no part in this discussion because he's selling it as a sealed box, and it isn't related to any of our rips. What does this have to do with the buying of wrappers, singles, and empty boxes? Using an example of selling a sealed box as an excuse for buying wrappers, singles and empty boxes doesn't really help your case.
- The 86 Fleer box he said he bought from an "old man down the street" is ABSOLUTELY the same one he bought on ebay. The markings are EXACTLY alike. As I said before, this would hold up in court. You're caught in a lie here Gary, which totally shoots down your credibility.
- Gary, we're waiting for that pic of your bartop or collage of all the wrappers you've been accumulating, including the 75 minis of which you must have had hundreds.
- As explained before, blindflyer expressed his intent to grade some packs before they were shipped out. Gary would have been idiotic to send him resealed packs. No offense to blindflyer, but his packs being legit really hold no weight in terms of evidence supporting Gary's claims.
- I'll explain again- the reason I brought this to a public forum and not one on one is because: a) There were impending rips and I didn't want people sending you money until this was straightened out, b) There are so many people involved, it has to become a public issue. Everybody has a right to know, and keeping it between you and I makes absolutely no sense. Another reason I haven't mentioned is that if you have been doing shady stuff, I didcn't want to give you a head start in covering your tracks.
Lee
ps- I'm posting this in the original thread and Gary's explanation thread to make sure everybody, including Gary, sees it.
<< <i>As an outsider looking in, a lot of people are quick to judge without all the facts. Funny how some like to kick those that are down!? >>
I have nothing to do with these rips, but as an outsider looking in, I see nothing but facts
<< <i>now ebay this is about buisness and i know how it may look now if you dont have any buisness sense try to play along. what have i gotten from all these rips. lots of empty boxes right. what can you do with those toss them or come up with creative ways to make money and i dont mean resealing. example the 76 football box from the rip yes AFTER the packs were sent out i purchased 76 wrappers on ebay and raw cards. plan was to sell the empty box 36 empty wrappers and the cards in 1 lot on ebay same with the 84 football. think what you want thats what ive been doing. example again the 74 topps baseball boxes i have been selling on ebay.
now someones gonna steal this idea.
i buy 18 2 card wax packs from bbce for 144 buy a empty 74 box on ebay for 30 thats 177 right turn around put it on ebay as a 74 box with 18 2 card packs final price 400 nice profit right . Thats buisness exactly what i planned for the stuff ive been buying. ive bought this stuff only after the rip packs were already gone. like the 78 rip i asked steve for the empty case im gonna sell my full box along with the empty case on ebay. again to make a profit. another example i have a empty 87 fleer basketball box from the rip picked up 34 empty wrappers on the bay 2nite for 5 bucks now i put them toghether oon ebay bet i make more then 5 bucks wont I Thats is the only thing im guilty of is coming up with creative ways to market and sell stuff on ebay. i have never even thought of resealing a pack
>>
Honestly, I'm not sure I really understand this "business model" Gary.
Mike
Steve
<< <i>that entire business model is shady. >>
this is the year 2007, people!
and that is NOT a business model.......sheesh
name one reputable dealer who EVER did this
i'm gonna throw a rod, sorry
To me you are leading people to believe that the cards came from the wrappers and box in the picture, Which in itself isnt very ethical.
<< <i>
<< <i>that entire business model is shady. >>
this is the year 2007, people!
and that is NOT a business model.......sheesh
name one reputable dealer who EVER did this
i'm gonna throw a rod, sorry >>
and itzagoner is a reputable, trustworthy guy! I agree!
<< <i>What value does it bring to the cards or wrappers to sell them together as a lot ?
To me you are leading people to believe that the cards came from the wrappers and box in the picture, Which in itself isnt very ethical. >>
hit the nail right on the head.
I guess my main point is that we're still in the "sorting everything out" stage, and when 40 people come on to say what they feel about Gary, the real information gets lost in the mix. Kind of like when the Police go to a scene where people are arguing and fighting- they need everybody to calm down so they can understand what has taken place, so they send the neighbors and friends off to the side until they can get everything sorted out.
With that said, this is a public forum and anybody can share their thoughts and feelings. I just feel it might be getting in the way of trying to sort this out. It's also giving Gary a leg to stand on in terms of his "mob mentality" defense, which at this point I agree with him on. I'm not trying to police anybody here, just trying to organize the information a little better.
Lee
Incidentally, Although, I don't have one myself -yet. I believe the unbiased opinions by those not directly involved should be considered for obvious reasons. We're really not unlike any other disfunctional family.
We all fup uck at times. Heck, it's not rape or murder... Gary, You've got a heavy burden. I sincerely hope you find a way to restore your social and business reputation quickly.
"What doesn't destroy us, empowers us."
Red
Looking for 81-84 Topps Stickers in PSA 9 or better, 81 Topps Scratch offs, 83 Topps Fold outs in PSA 8 or better, 83 Fleer Stamps and 81/86 Fleer Star Stickers in PSA 9 or better.
>
Lee
Collecting Jordan graded cards,
Jordan #d cards,
Wanted: Bill Quackenbush cards
<< <i> I thought the Secret Santa was a fiasco. >>
I"m staying out of this one, since I didn't participate, but if I was on a jury I'd be about ready to vote.
In regards to the secret santa, I thought it was really great. I got a great gift that is a treasured part of my collection (and my sons favorite card), and I was more excited about the gift I sent than any other gift I gave last year. Jami worked hard on it, and other than a few that didn't take it seriously (and a few ungracious recipients) thought it was a huge success. I'm definitely looking forward to it this year.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Good cards have been pulled from Gary's rips...
Payton RC
Elway RC
Montana RC
Eddie Murray RC
Mattingly RC
... and, I'll need to go back and look this up, but a Ripken RC was pulled from a rip --- can't remember if it was Gary's.
I'm not saying the rips were pure gold in terms of what was pulled --- but if you look at the actual results they do appear to resemble a normal box bust --- especially given the fact that several people did not rip or post (and several made it clear they were sending into grading).
If you figure that anywhere from 50-70% of each box was ripped, I'd argue that enough decent cards came out to potentially show the box as clean.
...and, I am NOT a Gary apologist --- but I just don't see any hard evidence to convict him of resealing or tampering with anyone's packs.
He is obviously lying about the 86 Fleer box --- but I think that has more to do with him wanting to paint a picture of begin a "high roller" and "big spender." I also think he may have switched out some BBCE boxes for some from other sources (which is a chitty thing to do, no doubt) --- but I do not believe he tampered/resealed packs in our rip. The evidence just doesn't support it.
-Tom
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
I am normally one to wait, to not burn one at the stake...
However, I feel that in this instance, there is a little too much info leaning in one direction.
Especially after seeing 80s purchase lots of wrappers, and NM/MT commons, from products that he organized rips on.
From my personal experience, I received few star cards from my 3 rips (40-45ish packs?), period. And the few that I did had a defect of some sort (OC, etc.) I do realize that quality control was lacking then, and I realize my terrible luck could very well be the culprit, but still.
And the two things I stated in the other thread, I still stand by...
A. Where there's smoke, there's fire...
B. It is not necessary for a pack resealer to open/reseal all the packs for this to be profitable. IF that is what occurred here, there is nothing to say that half of the packs from each box were opened, or packs with a PSA 8 quality of the rookies mentioned are "seeded" into the packs sent out.
Only an idiot would have a message board signature.
<< <i>He is obviously lying about the 86 Fleer box --- but I think that has more to do with him wanting to paint a picture of begin a "high roller" and "big spender." >>
I had those same thoughts. Similar to his cross-country buying trip from Cali on the way to Illinois for the '75 mini case break.
<< <i>
However, I feel that in this instance, there is a little too much info leaning in one direction.
>>
EA --- it's ALL circumstantial (except for 86 Fleer, which has nothing to do with any of the rips). We are roasting a guy alive based on a lot of "what-ifs" ... he literally has 40-50 guys attacking him from all angles. I'm overwhelmed just thinking about it.
-t
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
<< <i>and, I'll need to go back and look this up, but a Ripken RC was pulled from a rip >>
I think Gary is the one who pulled it.
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 2 (2003). My son was diagnosed with Type 1 when he was 17 on December 31, 2009. We were stunned that another child of ours had been diagnosed. Please, if you don't have a favorite charity, consider giving to the JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)
JDRF Donation
<< <i>
<< <i>
However, I feel that in this instance, there is a little too much info leaning in one direction.
>>
EA --- it's ALL circumstantial (except for 86 Fleer, which has nothing to do with any of the rips). We are roasting a guy alive based on a lot of "what-ifs" ... he literally has 40-50 guys attacking him from all angles. I'm overwhelmed just thinking about it.
-t >>
One thing I know for sure, if anyone, whether it was one or fifty people, attacked me from any angle, and I am 100% credible, I would show proof without any hesitation whatsoever! Especially when I am being accused of some serious crimes! Unless, in today's day and age, fighting for your integrity is "uncool!"
<< <i>
One thing I know for sure, if anyone, whether it was one or fifty people, attacked me from any angle, and I am 100% credible, I would show proof without any hesitation whatsoever! Especially when I am being accused of some serious crimes! Unless, in today's day and age, fighting for your integrity is "uncool!" >>
I would, too, hardcorehockeyfan....
however, it'd take me a few days. There's an initial shock of getting hit by a 40-ton brick. Gary is in that phase right now I imagine. His entire "hobby world" has come unglued. There are so many attackers and witchhunters where do you even start?
He started last night with a general response. Let's see what he does over the next few days. That will show me, at least, how important his reputation is around here and if we really matter like he says we do.
-t
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
<< <i>
<< <i>
One thing I know for sure, if anyone, whether it was one or fifty people, attacked me from any angle, and I am 100% credible, I would show proof without any hesitation whatsoever! Especially when I am being accused of some serious crimes! Unless, in today's day and age, fighting for your integrity is "uncool!" >>
I would, too, hardcorehockeyfan....
however, it'd take me a few days. There's an initial shock of getting hit by a 40-ton brick. Gary is in that phase right now I imagine. His entire "hobby world" has come unglued. There are so many attackers and witchhunters where do you even start?
He started last night with a general response. Let's see what he does over the next few days. That will show me, at least, how important his reputation is around here and if we really matter like he says we do.
-t >>
So he may be in shock, fine, and I am not starting an argument with you on that. But, if he is clean, did absolutely nothing wrong, had his moral compass on a true north setting, he could have done a better job with a response. I mean, if he is not lying, he would have nothing to hide. If I was accused of anything relating to a serious offense, through my shock, I would still be able to say something as coherent as possible, so that ALL issues raised were answered with an easy explanation. One does not need a good memory if one is honest. If you lie, you have to remember your lies. Perhaps I am different from many, and I do not care if it was a person, a police department, a government bureau, or anything in relation, my voice will be heard once any accusation is made to harm my integrity!