New Purchase 1863 $20
BloodMan
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Original Post on February 18, 2007:
This 1863 Double Eagle is in NGC XF40 plastic. I don’t see too many of these Philadelphia mint Civil War era $20’s so I jumped when I had the opportunity even though it was nearly double Trends value. Now I need a matching 1862.
What do you think of it? Accurately graded at XF40?
The strike is decent especially along the stars and date, but possibly a little weak in the center (hair and coronet), which contributes to a look of wear.
March 17, 2018: See comments and new grade below.
This 1863 Double Eagle is in NGC XF40 plastic. I don’t see too many of these Philadelphia mint Civil War era $20’s so I jumped when I had the opportunity even though it was nearly double Trends value. Now I need a matching 1862.
What do you think of it? Accurately graded at XF40?
The strike is decent especially along the stars and date, but possibly a little weak in the center (hair and coronet), which contributes to a look of wear.
March 17, 2018: See comments and new grade below.
3
Comments
TD
-Paul
The 1863 Phily as you noted is rare...some sources state that less than 500 are known....and total mintage was only 140,000 or so....so rare in any grade...nearly unknown in MS grades.....many of the old time "Name" collectors never had this year and mint in MS.
Although the obverse is baggy...the reverse looks better....net grade to me is in that XF 40 range....but my gut says it sould be closer to a 30.
Just think how close that coin was to the famous Gettysburg battles when it was minted in Philadelphia in the year 1863!
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Thanks for all of the comments. I think the coin is accurately graded. Type 1 $20’s produced after 1858 are often weakly struck on the obverse stars, hair and coronet as a consequence of a new obverse hub utilized during this time. The amount of detail seen in many late Type 1 $20’s is generally noticeably less than that seen in earlier dates, eg, 1857-S SSCA $20’s.
The 1863 was tough to image partly because the fields are slightly reflective. Below is an image of the coin in the holder.
<< <i>It's too bad most people can't afford to collect these old $20 pieces. They are truly rare and desirable, and this series may have more sleepers than just about any other. The cost of assembling a date/mm set just blows most of us out of the water, so we tend to ignore these coins, except as Type. Thus, many of the better dates are probably completely overlooked at this point in time, IMO, and may stay that way for a while. The CC-mints may be an exception, because those are popular and well-studied, but the P, S, and O-mints are a different story. It is a real challenge finding original coins that are not dipped or polished, and do not look like they've been chewed by rats (which is the norm). Once the price of gold goes back to where it belongs, I might consider collecting these myself. >>
Good post Rhedden...you hit the nail on the head...they are pricey in any grade. I am trying to complete a set of type 1s.....it is the only series I collect....I love the Liberty Head $20s......My goal is to stay in the XF45 to AU55 range...Some dates/MM will be near impossible for me to afford....the 1866 no motto...and some of the O mints.....may have to revert to a date set of type Is so that I can dodge the ones that are beyond my budget.
As to these being overlooked...I agree there too....price is the leading factor.....I think the Civil War years will pay handsomely in the future....
Collecting big gold as these $20s are....is different than collecting any smaller series coins....these are big, soft and tend to look badgy in these super closeup photos...in hand they look much nicer. The hits/bagmarks we big gold collectors can accept is hard for the small coin series collector, such as silver dimes, to accept.
I would love to see more of the $20 Type I out there if anyone has any to share.
RAH
<< <i>I would love to see more of the $20 Type I out there if anyone has any to share. >>
This is the most common date, the 1861, PCGS 55
<< <i>
<< <i>I would love to see more of the $20 Type I out there if anyone has any to share. >>
This is the most common date, the 1861, PCGS 55
Redtiger,
Nice....same grade as mine..however...mine is in plastic from ATS.....i like the circulated look....in my mind the fact that it circulated.....even if at least in the west....that the coin saw a little history.
Posted on March 17, 2018:
When I posted this coin over 10 years ago, the grades posted by forum members ranged from VF30 to XF40. As an XF40, I tried it at CAC, but it didn’t sticker. I sold the coin through Heritage more than a year ago. I didn’t try to upgrade the coin before selling it.
I was going through the CoinFacts image archives for 1863 double eagles and found that the coin had been graded XF45 by PCGS, see image below.
Is this an XF45 by today’s standards?
Here's the TrueView. It's not CAC.
I had one offered to me once 20 or so years ago by Kleinman for around GS. I owned a few 1862 $20 gold coins, NGC certified in AU, one was the nice "Eagle" collection coin. Anthony Swiatek told me a while back that most $20 Libs. were regarded as bullion coins before they were promoted. I'm curious how they fit into the Civil War lore and who exchanged them in the 1860s.
This is more of a commentary on how rare unmolested No Motto Gold is... Is worthy of a 40? Probably... Is it a better date? Yes... Is it an original coin? Does not look that way from the images
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Coin has not changed.
A lot of the Coinfacts 1863 $20 gold pieces look overgraded except the top graded one: http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/CoinImages.aspx?s=8939
No, it does not have an original appearance, though this is a tough date to find with any degree of originality.
It took a long time, but I found an example that I like much better. It is graded AU53...
Terrific looking 53... Congrats
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Indeed.
Your 53 is a nice coin, not a fan of the first coin and EF40 seemed right to me. The difference between grading a coin 40 and 45 seems like a small one which could swing in either direction on any given day at either service .
Latin American Collection
The 1864 $20 issues seem to be the least attractive in the P mint civil war date issues, 1861/65 "civil war" dates can come much nicer.
I do like your new one better... the detail is more appealing.... that being said, I like civil war gold and would be happy with the first one as well...Cheers, RickO
What a beauty for the history she beholds. I am a novice on this Coronet field but sure enjoyed this thread.
Congrats!
That is still a very decent coin I would be happy to own. Back in 1980 we would have graded it an EF-45, but nowadays anything with any luster gets called an AU.
Nice coin
It is a nice coin for the grade. Many of these coins are hacked to death with bag marks, which makes them really ugly to my eye. This one is remarkablely smooth. The reverse is all there and then some for the EF-40 grade while some might call the obverse VF-35. Given the good eye appeal and good color, I would say that EF-40 is an appropriate grade.
I like that AU53
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