<< <i>On a side note, say Cortez Kennedy gets in, which card should we add for the HOF set? For the 90s team of the decade the Score Update is used, for the Future HOF it is the Action Packed - I am a much bigger fan of the Score Update (and that is the recognized rookie for Emmitt who has cards in both sets). Why would we not go with that one?
>>
I think PSA ruled on this a few years ago, but I dont remember the specifics. At that time, they changed the Seau RC used from the Score to the Action Packed. I agree with you though....They need to get some consistancy in the process.
<< <i>There are quite a few players in the rushers set that need to be voted out if, in fact, 10K is no longer an automatic ticket. That is the only reason a few of those guys made it. >>
I see some names that should be removed as well but what was (or should be) the criteria for the set? At this point I don't understand how the set was originally put together and how certain players were added over the years.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
On a side note, say Cortez Kennedy gets in, which card should we add for the HOF set? For the 90s team of the decade the Score Update is used, for the Future HOF it is the Action Packed - I am a much bigger fan of the Score Update (and that is the recognized rookie for Emmitt who has cards in both sets). Why would we not go with that one? >>
The Future HOF set DIRECTLY feeds the HOF Rookie Player set. Once elected, card gets deleted from Future HOF set and added to Hall of Fame Rookie Player set. If you go to the Future HOF set and read the set rules is alreasy tells you this specifically:
"As these players are elected the the Pro Football Hall of Fame, their card will be deleted from this Registry set and added directly to the NFL Hall of Fame Rookie Players set."
There will be no debate towards which card gets added to the HOF Rookie Player set, as we've already had those debates when voting towards the Future HOF set.PSA would not allow the Score Supplemental as they have determined that is not a true rookie card. Same with the Seau. Whatever is in any of the key card sets is meaningless.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>There are quite a few players in the rushers set that need to be voted out if, in fact, 10K is no longer an automatic ticket. That is the only reason a few of those guys made it. >>
LOL, send the request! PSA will blast a poll and if majority vote them off, adios. Again, these sets have been FUBAR because the All-Time Rushers set for example USED TO BE a combination of All-Time Greats and 10,000 yard rusher sets. This is back when PSA had some discretion and when someone requested a 10,000 yard rusher set THEY DECLINED to add it, instead morphing the 2 sets into 1 set. All 10k rushers were AUTOMATICALLY added to the set All-Time rushers (notice it isn't listed as All-Time GREAT rushers). I asked them way back to add some rules to each set so newbs would understand how they are set up and was told it wasn't necessary. Obviously it was ,as memories (and job titles) on the PSA staff have changed over the years.
Now, since they jumped the shark on Key Card sets they would probably add an All-Time rushing attempts set,All-Time rushing TD set, All-Time yards per carry, All-Time fumbles, etc, etc. If you want a set that makes an automatic addition someone will need to request a 10,000 yard rusher set. You'll still get a vote on which card to add, but the player addition won't be yes/no.
I mean at this point the more sets the merrier right? Free gradings right? No worry about the slow burn. The HOF Rookie player set for example had a net gain of 13 new collectors in 2010. All-Time rushers set had a net gain of -2 collectors. Nuff said.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I see some names that should be removed as well but what was (or should be) the criteria for the set? At this point I don't understand how the set was originally put together and how certain players were added over the years. >>
GREAT POINT! And many of the newer collectors of the set are in the same boat. Not to mention PSA staff memories are not good, and no rules or guidelines were ever posted. Thank goodness Cosetta was still the set addition person when we created the Future HOF sets as I asked (and received) the option of adding the rules/guidelines on how the sets are put together. IMO, this has and will continue to save those sets from being FUBAR. Without it, a subjective set, which is what 99.999% of the Key Card sets are open to interpretation. And as each new collector joins the fray (although the set has lost more than it has gained in 2010) a new opinion is added to the mix. Such a shame.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>LOL, send the request! PSA will blast a poll and if majority vote them off, adios. Again, these sets have been FUBAR because the All-Time Rushers set for example USED TO BE a combination of All-Time Greats and 10,000 yard rusher sets. This is back when PSA had some discretion and when someone requested a 10,000 yard rusher set THEY DECLINED to add it, instead morphing the 2 sets into 1 set. All 10k rushers were AUTOMATICALLY added to the set All-Time rushers (notice it isn't listed as All-Time GREAT rushers). I asked them way back to add some rules to each set so newbs would understand how they are set up and was told it wasn't necessary. Obviously it was ,as memories (and job titles) on the PSA staff have changed over the years. >>
Just to be clear, I have absolutely no intereset in the All time rushers set for the same reason as you. I'm only registered becasue I have the bulk of the cards. Thus, I could care less whether the guys I mentioned are in or out of the set. I wont be putting any effort forward into requesting the deletion.
Jason, Do you remember why PSA chose the Score RC for Smith, and the Action packed for Seau and Kennedy. I remember the discussion, but cant seem to remember the reasoning behind it.
1990 Score Supplemental is not a rookie card for either Seau or Kennedy because they both had regular issue Score cards. Take the 1982 Topps Traded Ripken vs. regular issue '82 Topps for example. The Topps Traded card is more valuable, but it is not a rookie. Emmitt Smith did not have a regular issue 1990 Score card, and his Score Supplemental is his most valuable first-year issue, thus it's his key rookie card.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>1990 Score Supplemental is not a rookie card for either Seau or Kennedy because they both had regular issue Score cards. Take the 1982 Topps Traded Ripken vs. regular issue '82 Topps for example. The Topps Traded card is more valuable, but it is not a rookie. Emmitt Smith did not have a regular issue 1990 Score card, and his Score Supplemental is his most valuable first-year issue, thus it's his key rookie card. >>
that makes sense, and the logic is sound.
I think that Otis Anderson definitely belongs in the all time great rushers as well as Corey Dillon. Some of the other ones maybe not. Otis Anderson has a lot of major accomplishments in a great career including a Super Bowl MVP. Thomas Jones is just a guy to me.
<< <i>Jason, Do you remember why PSA chose the Score RC for Smith, and the Action packed for Seau and Kennedy. I remember the discussion, but cant seem to remember the reasoning behind it.
Dave >>
Because the Score Supplemental for Kennedy and Seau is not listed as a rookie card in the Beckett Ultimate Rookie Card Encyclopedia. Exact words from the PSA Registry crew.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>If it were up to me, I would vote out Anderson, Waters, Dunn, Dillon, Barber, James, Lewis, George, and Taylor. An average back can get to 10K yards any more especially when the 18 game schedule comes along. This should be the greatest RB's in the history of the game, which does not include the ones I listed above. Just my opinion of course.
Dave >>
I have to disagree, if an average back could get 10,000 yards it would occur far more frequently than it does. We are lucky to see 1-2 backs accomplish that milestone from every draft. Those playing an 18 game schedule could benefit from more games or have their careers shortened from the extra touches every season.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
I see some names that should be removed as well but what was (or should be) the criteria for the set? At this point I don't understand how the set was originally put together and how certain players were added over the years. >>
GREAT POINT! And many of the newer collectors of the set are in the same boat. Not to mention PSA staff memories are not good, and no rules or guidelines were ever posted. Thank goodness Cosetta was still the set addition person when we created the Future HOF sets as I asked (and received) the option of adding the rules/guidelines on how the sets are put together. IMO, this has and will continue to save those sets from being FUBAR. Without it, a subjective set, which is what 99.999% of the Key Card sets are open to interpretation. And as each new collector joins the fray (although the set has lost more than it has gained in 2010) a new opinion is added to the mix. Such a shame.
Jason >>
That's my issue w/ the set right now, a lack of any clear guidelines or rules. Since it is a "rushers set" why not go w/ yardage?
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
<< <i>I have to disagree, if an average back could get 10,000 yards it would occur far more frequently than it does. We are lucky to see 1-2 backs accomplish that milestone from every draft. Those playing an 18 game schedule could benefit from more games or have their careers shortened from the extra touches every season. >>
Valid points, but 10K yards just doesn't have the same meaning as it did 20 years ago. As offensive numbers continue to increase, the more it "lessens" certain accomplishments. Kinda like a QB passing for 4K yards in a season. When Marino was doing it 25 years ago, it was phenonminal, now, not so much. Just look to see how many passed for 4K this year. Back to RBs.....1K yards in a season doesnt have the same meaning as it did either.
I guess I look at all time greats (at any position) and expect them to have a great shot of being a HOFer. I dont see any of the guys I listed above as HOF'ers. Maybe my opinion is slightly skewed since I only collect HOFer's.
I still collect the All-Time sets, but not as passionately as I once did. I think a terrific solution would be to have something like 10,000 Yard Rushers, 10,000 Yard Receivers, and 30,000 Yard Passers sets, and then HOF Wide Receivers, HOF Running Backs, and HOF Quarterbacks sets. All key rookie cards of course. Would there be some redundancy among certain sets? Absolutely. But the rules would be crystal clear. And we'd still have the future HOF'er sets for players that hadn't hit any magic marks yet but were regarded as shoo-ins. Just my 2 cents.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>I have to disagree, if an average back could get 10,000 yards it would occur far more frequently than it does. We are lucky to see 1-2 backs accomplish that milestone from every draft. Those playing an 18 game schedule could benefit from more games or have their careers shortened from the extra touches every season. >>
Valid points, but 10K yards just doesn't have the same meaning as it did 20 years ago. As offensive numbers continue to increase, the more it "lessens" certain accomplishments. Kinda like a QB passing for 4K yards in a season. When Marino was doing it 25 years ago, it was phenonminal, now, not so much. Just look to see how many passed for 4K this year. Back to RBs.....1K yards in a season doesnt have the same meaning as it did either.
I guess I look at all time greats (at any position) and expect them to have a great shot of being a HOFer. I dont see any of the guys I listed above as HOF'ers. Maybe my opinion is slightly skewed since I only collect HOFer's.
dave >>
Current backs aren't putting up incredible numbers like QB's and WR's though. There is one 10,000 rusher from the 1998 draft class, one from 1999, two from 2000, one from 2001, and zero from 2002-on. 10,000 yards isn't what it was in the 70's but its still a big accomplishment considering only a limited number of backs hit the milestone.
I agree that 1,000 yards rushing isn't a major accomplishment but IMO it becomes one when a back does it a number of time in their career.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
<< <i>I still collect the All-Time sets, but not as passionately as I once did. I think a terrific solution would be to have something like 10,000 Yard Rushers, 10,000 Yard Receivers, and 30,000 Yard Passers sets, and then HOF Wide Receivers, HOF Running Backs, and HOF Quarterbacks sets. All key rookie cards of course. Would there be some redundancy among certain sets? Absolutely. But the rules would be crystal clear. And we'd still have the future HOF'er sets for players that hadn't hit any magic marks yet but were regarded as shoo-ins. Just my 2 cents. >>
I think that is a great suggestion and a set request I will probably make.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
<< <i>Honestly, I'd be happy with 2 sets.............. The football HOF RC's and Future (Modern) RC's. Those are the only 2 I actively persue. >>
Amen brotha!
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I still collect the All-Time sets, but not as passionately as I once did. I think a terrific solution would be to have something like 10,000 Yard Rushers, 10,000 Yard Receivers, and 30,000 Yard Passers sets, and then HOF Wide Receivers, HOF Running Backs, and HOF Quarterbacks sets. All key rookie cards of course. Would there be some redundancy among certain sets? Absolutely. But the rules would be crystal clear. And we'd still have the future HOF'er sets for players that hadn't hit any magic marks yet but were regarded as shoo-ins. Just my 2 cents. >>
I think that is a great suggestion and a set request I will probably make. >>
I will lobby against the HOF WR, RB, QB sets if I see them on the request list. These would end up as HOF sets and not key card sets, and we don't need anymore HOF sets...I will exhaust all resources to save the HOF set category from becoming the Key Card set category...That was my caveat to leaving the Key Card sets, I will protect the HOF category until they pry this keyboard from my cold dead fingers.
Just entirely unnecessary. Come on fellas, when does overkill become overkill? Why does everyone need 10000 sets to tell them what to collect? Collect what you want, if it doesn't fit a current set, list it in the Showcase...Free grades and set winner certificates are not worth the price of what the redundancy was done to so many of the sets already.
Just my opinion of course. Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Current backs aren't putting up incredible numbers like QB's and WR's though. There is one 10,000 rusher from the 1998 draft class, one from 1999, two from 2000, one from 2001, and zero from 2002-on. 10,000 yards isn't what it was in the 70's but its still a big accomplishment considering only a limited number of backs hit the milestone.
>>
BUT............ Of the 25 players that have rushed for over 10K yards, only 11 of them started their careers before 1990. So the first 70 years of the NFL produced 11 10K yard rushers and there were 14 in the last 20 years. Not to mention 2 more (Portis and R. Williams) that will most likely hit 10K next year.
I thought the 10,000 yard criteria still applied to the All-Time Rushers set, but given the option to consider whether T. Jones deserved to be in the set or not, I believe I voted no. (Can't remember). I wouldn't mind the automatic inclusion if that becomes the rule. I would like to vote as to which card would be used in the set.
Lastly, I am totally against voting out any player that is already in the set. I actually think it's kind of dis-repectful that after a set has been established and collected for years, that a newbie can come in and say "Who's P. Hornung? His stats stink! I'm going to have him voted out of the set!" If someone new wants to collect the set, than collect it. Their input into the set should be from that point forward.
<< <i> Lastly, I am totally against voting out any player that is already in the set. I actually think it's kind of dis-repectful that after a set has been established and collected for years, that a newbie can come in and say "Who's P. Hornung? His stats stink! I'm going to have him voted out of the set!" If someone new wants to collect the set, than collect it. Their input into the set should be from that point forward. >>
Well said! It is actually how things were run by the PSA Registry crew a few years ago when things still made sense. There were some personnel/responsibility changes and instead of this common sense approach, it became more about appeasing whoever was asking. The word "No" no longer exists there it seems...You can now request whatever you want and PSA will oblige your request by sending out a poll. The 2 final straws for me where the addition of the ENTIRE 45 man 2000 Team of the Decade rather than FIRST TEAM as we'd listed all the other decade sets. They at least fixed that one, which was my final key card set request...
The other final straw was PSA sending out a poll to add Brett Favre to the 1990's Team of the Decade set...I mean are you friggin kidding me? They couldn't catch that before sending out a poll to add a 2nd team QB to a 1st team set?
At least with the HOF RC set, the HOF voters determine who gets added. And the Future Modern and Senior sets, I was able to get the guidelines/rules included. They also (thus far) have allowed us here on the boards to maintain control of the Future sets by limiting addition requests to Once per year and based on our vote here on the boards. It was again a request I made to keep things simple and under CORE collector control. Hopefully we can keep it going...
AP All-Pros should be out in the next few days and we will begin our annual add/subtract poll for the modern set. We completed the senior poll vote in September as always.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Current backs aren't putting up incredible numbers like QB's and WR's though. There is one 10,000 rusher from the 1998 draft class, one from 1999, two from 2000, one from 2001, and zero from 2002-on. 10,000 yards isn't what it was in the 70's but its still a big accomplishment considering only a limited number of backs hit the milestone.
>>
BUT............ Of the 25 players that have rushed for over 10K yards, only 11 of them started their careers before 1990. So the first 70 years of the NFL produced 11 10K yard rushers and there were 14 in the last 20 years. Not to mention 2 more (Portis and R. Williams) that will most likely hit 10K next year. >>
What changed after 1990 to produce more 10,000 yard backs? The schedule was changed in the 70's so there sould have been more backs in the 1980's w/ 10,000 yards rushing. IMO we just happen to see some quality backs emerge during that decade. Portis has been close the past 2 years but hasn't been healthy enough to hit the mark while Williams is an older back that another team might not take a chance on. I believe the number of backs reaching 10,000 yards after 1990 is more a reflection of a rare spike in talent and longevity than anything else. From 2000-on things seemed to have gone back to a minimal number of backs hitting the 10,000 yard mark.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
I don't do a lot of these sets for the same reasons. It seems like a most logical way to do it would be a points system of some sort. A rushing title might be worth 8-10 points. Finishing second - 5 points. Third - 3 points. Fourth - 2 points. Fifth - 1 point. Since the league got bigger after 1969, each conference could get these points. So, the AFC and NFC title winner would each get the points. This would keep stat compilers who played in big eras and amass 1,000 yards per season but are rarely amongst the league leaders (Warrick Dunn, etc) from racking up points. It would also be fair to guys from the 1950's and 1960's who had it a lot tougher. They would only be competing against players from their own time period as far as amassing points. This could also apply to the receivers set as well. Does this seem reasonable?
<< <i>I still collect the All-Time sets, but not as passionately as I once did. I think a terrific solution would be to have something like 10,000 Yard Rushers, 10,000 Yard Receivers, and 30,000 Yard Passers sets, and then HOF Wide Receivers, HOF Running Backs, and HOF Quarterbacks sets. All key rookie cards of course. Would there be some redundancy among certain sets? Absolutely. But the rules would be crystal clear. And we'd still have the future HOF'er sets for players that hadn't hit any magic marks yet but were regarded as shoo-ins. Just my 2 cents. >>
I think that is a great suggestion and a set request I will probably make. >>
I will lobby against the HOF WR, RB, QB sets if I see them on the request list. These would end up as HOF sets and not key card sets, and we don't need anymore HOF sets...I will exhaust all resources to save the HOF set category from becoming the Key Card set category...That was my caveat to leaving the Key Card sets, I will protect the HOF category until they pry this keyboard from my cold dead fingers.
Just entirely unnecessary. Come on fellas, when does overkill become overkill? Why does everyone need 10000 sets to tell them what to collect? Collect what you want, if it doesn't fit a current set, list it in the Showcase...Free grades and set winner certificates are not worth the price of what the redundancy was done to so many of the sets already.
Just my opinion of course. Jason >>
There are clear stats to be included in the sack and interception sets so why shouldn't the same standard be applied to sets that cover the other side of the ball?
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
<< <i>I thought the 10,000 yard criteria still applied to the All-Time Rushers set, but given the option to consider whether T. Jones deserved to be in the set or not, I believe I voted no. (Can't remember). I wouldn't mind the automatic inclusion if that becomes the rule. I would like to vote as to which card would be used in the set.
Lastly, I am totally against voting out any player that is already in the set. I actually think it's kind of dis-repectful that after a set has been established and collected for years, that a newbie can come in and say "Who's P. Hornung? His stats stink! I'm going to have him voted out of the set!" If someone new wants to collect the set, than collect it. Their input into the set should be from that point forward. >>
Since SP seems to be the card of choice for rookies starting in 2000 I suggested that for Jones.
How does Hornung belong in the All Time Rushers Set? I don't see why he was included to begin with.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
Since SP seems to be the card of choice for rookies starting in 2000 I suggested that for Jones.
SP Authentic was the right card for Jones. I voted against Jones even though I have a PSa 10 of his RC. I felt, like the majority, that he just wasn't great. No playoff apperances that I can recall, no championships, I don't think he's even had any Pro Bowls. Now if the criteria for the set was 10,000 being automatic admission, I wouldn't have a problem with him being in the set, based off of that.
As for Hornung, he was included in the initial making of the set. I'm sure Jasen can give you his exact stats and accomplishments (those military guys are very exacting, god bless them) Off the top of my head I know Hornungs rushing yardage would be considered pedestrian, but he won Championships, he won Super Bowls, he was an all pro and I also beleive he functioned as the teams kicker. He was the "Golden Boy" on the premier team of that period. Many of the old-time rushers (M. Motley, J. Perry, S. VanBuren) had "uninspiring" rushing stats, but were still considered great by how the played.
Bottom line, once a player has been vetted and in a set, it should be permanent.
There are clear stats to be included in the sack and interception sets so why shouldn't the same standard be applied to sets that cover the other side of the ball? >>
The sack and interception sets are Key Card sets based on numbers. Not HOF DBs and HOF DL...You can request all the 10,000 yard rusher sets that you want. I have zero interest in any Key Card sets. I was speaking specifically about a HOF QB, RB, WR set that consisted ONLY of HOF players at those positions.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>actually the card of choice from 2001 on is Topps Chrome...........which i also dont agree with completly. >>
I apologize I wasn't clear, just for the 2000 rookie class.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
<< <i>actually the card of choice from 2001 on is Topps Chrome...........which i also dont agree with completly. >>
Incorrect...There is no "card choice" from any season. For the HOF sets at least, the card MUST FIRST be listed in Beckett's Ultimate Rookie Card Encyclopedia. Once that is established, it is the most valuable card of each specific player excluding anything numbered less than /999.
That goes for all years! Key Card sets, not really any rules or guidelines anymore. Just wait until the autograph, insert, parallel cards start getting voted onto those key card sets..It's coming! ANYONE CAN REQUEST ANY CARD be added to the Key Card sets. I wasn't kidding when I said Ty Cobb on the Rushers set. If I collected the set, I could request it and PSA would send out a poll...lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Since SP seems to be the card of choice for rookies starting in 2000 I suggested that for Jones.
SP Authentic was the right card for Jones. I voted against Jones even though I have a PSa 10 of his RC. I felt, like the majority, that he just wasn't great. No playoff apperances that I can recall, no championships, I don't think he's even had any Pro Bowls. Now if the criteria for the set was 10,000 being automatic admission, I wouldn't have a problem with him being in the set, based off of that.
As for Hornung, he was included in the initial making of the set. I'm sure Jasen can give you his exact stats and accomplishments (those military guys are very exacting, god bless them) Off the top of my head I know Hornungs rushing yardage would be considered pedestrian, but he won Championships, he won Super Bowls, he was an all pro and I also beleive he functioned as the teams kicker. He was the "Golden Boy" on the premier team of that period. Many of the old-time rushers (M. Motley, J. Perry, S. VanBuren) had "uninspiring" rushing stats, but were still considered great by how the played.
Bottom line, once a player has been vetted and in a set, it should be permanent. >>
Since 10,000 yards isn't automatic I agree w/ your pointson Jones but I believe there are other backs who are similar to Jones already in the set.
Those other backs at least led their teams in rushing and I believe Perry and Van Buren were the All Time rushing leaders when they retired (could be very wrong though lol). IMO Hornung's kicking stats shouldn't have been used to include hiim in the set since it refers to rushing the ball.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
There are clear stats to be included in the sack and interception sets so why shouldn't the same standard be applied to sets that cover the other side of the ball? >>
The sack and interception sets are Key Card sets based on numbers. Not HOF DBs and HOF DL...You can request all the 10,000 yard rusher sets that you want. I have zero interest in any Key Card sets. I was speaking specifically about a HOF QB, RB, WR set that consisted ONLY of HOF players at those positions.
Jason >>
I thought the 10,000 yard rusher set was an excellent idea!
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
Since 10,000 yards isn't automatic I agree w/ your pointson Jones but I believe there are other backs who are similar to Jones already in the set.
Those other backs at least led their teams in rushing and I believe Perry and Van Buren were the All Time rushing leaders when they retired (could be very wrong though lol). IMO Hornung's kicking stats shouldn't have been used to include hiim in the set since it refers to rushing the ball. >>
We've discussed Hornung on that set in the past. The consensus was that due to the VALUE AND IMPORTANCE of Hornung's rookie card in the hobby, that it belonged in the set. Even if his stat line did not.
Gotta remember, these are CARD sets. Not just lists of stats or guys who were great.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Since 10,000 yards isn't automatic I agree w/ your pointson Jones but I believe there are other backs who are similar to Jones already in the set.
Those other backs at least led their teams in rushing and I believe Perry and Van Buren were the All Time rushing leaders when they retired (could be very wrong though lol). IMO Hornung's kicking stats shouldn't have been used to include hiim in the set since it refers to rushing the ball. >>
We've discussed Hornung on that set in the past. The consensus was that due to the VALUE AND IMPORTANCE of Hornung's rookie card in the hobby, that it belonged in the set. Even if his stat line did not.
Gotta remember, these are CARD sets. Not just lists of stats or guys who were great.
Jason >>
Ok, I understand that line of thought (but I still don't like it lol).
This thread has been busy today.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
Ok, I understand that line of thought (but I still don't like it lol).
This thread has been busy today. >>
Talking cards and watching playoff football...Doesn't get much better!
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
We've discussed Hornung on that set in the past. The consensus was that due to the VALUE AND IMPORTANCE of Hornung's rookie card in the hobby, that it belonged in the set. Even if his stat line did not.
Thanks for clarifying that Jason. I started collecting the set shortly after the initial cards were established, so I wasn't part of the card selection process.
Since PSA is in the "don't say no mode", maybe it is time for a 10,000 yard rushing sets for the stat oriented guys. Than we wouldn't have these debates for the All-Time sets.
<< <i>I will lobby against the HOF WR, RB, QB sets if I see them on the request list. These would end up as HOF sets and not key card sets, and we don't need anymore HOF sets...I will exhaust all resources to save the HOF set category from becoming the Key Card set category...That was my caveat to leaving the Key Card sets, I will protect the HOF category until they pry this keyboard from my cold dead fingers. Just entirely unnecessary. Come on fellas, when does overkill become overkill? Why does everyone need 10000 sets to tell them what to collect? Collect what you want, if it doesn't fit a current set, list it in the Showcase...Free grades and set winner certificates are not worth the price of what the redundancy was done to so many of the sets already. Just my opinion of course. Jason >>
I don't know why you're getting your feathers all ruffled. My suggestion was to take the EXACT cards that are in the HOF rookies set and just create smaller sets based on positions. There are collectors who just go after the QBs. Some just do the RBs. And so on. Personally I am happy with just the HOF rookies and future rookies sets too, but the All-Time sets need re-thinking and this was one suggestion. I would never vote for anything that changed the HOF rookies set in any way. It's one of my absolute favorites as is. Also I don't care how many sets PSA allows. I don't see why anybody should. if someone wants to collect a set that I think is silly, it has no bearing on me at all.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>I have to disagree, if an average back could get 10,000 yards it would occur far more frequently than it does. We are lucky to see 1-2 backs accomplish that milestone from every draft. Those playing an 18 game schedule could benefit from more games or have their careers shortened from the extra touches every season. >>
Valid points, but 10K yards just doesn't have the same meaning as it did 20 years ago. As offensive numbers continue to increase, the more it "lessens" certain accomplishments. Kinda like a QB passing for 4K yards in a season. When Marino was doing it 25 years ago, it was phenonminal, now, not so much. Just look to see how many passed for 4K this year. Back to RBs.....1K yards in a season doesnt have the same meaning as it did either.
I guess I look at all time greats (at any position) and expect them to have a great shot of being a HOFer. I dont see any of the guys I listed above as HOF'ers. Maybe my opinion is slightly skewed since I only collect HOFer's.
dave >>
Current backs aren't putting up incredible numbers like QB's and WR's though. There is one 10,000 rusher from the 1998 draft class, one from 1999, two from 2000, one from 2001, and zero from 2002-on. 10,000 yards isn't what it was in the 70's but its still a big accomplishment considering only a limited number of backs hit the milestone.
I agree that 1,000 yards rushing isn't a major accomplishment but IMO it becomes one when a back does it a number of time in their career. >>
I tend to agree with the opinion that the 10,000 yd mark being a big accomplishment. Many teams now a days have multiple back systems, and it seems like there are really no "feature" backs anymore...with a few exceptions.
I don't know why you're getting your feathers all ruffled. My suggestion was to take the EXACT cards that are in the HOF rookies set and just create smaller sets based on positions. There are collectors who just go after the QBs. Some just do the RBs. And so on. Personally I am happy with just the HOF rookies and future rookies sets too, but the All-Time sets need re-thinking and this was one suggestion. I would never vote for anything that changed the HOF rookies set in any way. It's one of my absolute favorites as is. Also I don't care how many sets PSA allows. I don't see why anybody should. if someone wants to collect a set that I think is silly, it has no bearing on me at all. >>
Feathers ruffled??? Sorry. I'm not your turkey...lol
Seriously though, your opinion is your opinion and that is fine. But if you think the overkill of key card sets hasn't affected you (or more importantly the value of your collection) you are looking VERY small picture at things.
You are free to collect whatever you want, what I don't understand is why it takes another near identical PSA Registry set to what already exists to validate what you collect. (and by you I'm not meaning you per se...But rather those who are fans of inclusiveness.
To me, it's the same opinion that guys have with the HOF..That why don;t they lift the 5 modern limit and elect everyone under the sun, 15 guys a year...EXCLUSIVENESS brings value to things..Overproduction and overkill 99.999% of the time leads to DE-valuing. In all facets of anything financial that you want to examine.
Like I said...You guys can do whatever you want with Key Card sets. But if you think a new HOF set for every position is going to happen without a fight (which IMO would end up lessening the value of the overall set) you are mistaken. And again by "you" I am speaking in general term towards anyone who plans on requesting said sets.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I don't know why you're getting your feathers all ruffled. My suggestion was to take the EXACT cards that are in the HOF rookies set and just create smaller sets based on positions. There are collectors who just go after the QBs. Some just do the RBs. And so on. Personally I am happy with just the HOF rookies and future rookies sets too, but the All-Time sets need re-thinking and this was one suggestion. I would never vote for anything that changed the HOF rookies set in any way. It's one of my absolute favorites as is. Also I don't care how many sets PSA allows. I don't see why anybody should. if someone wants to collect a set that I think is silly, it has no bearing on me at all. >>
Feathers ruffled??? Sorry. I'm not your turkey...lol
Seriously though, your opinion is your opinion and that is fine. But if you think the overkill of key card sets hasn't affected you (or more importantly the value of your collection) you are looking VERY small picture at things.
You are free to collect whatever you want, what I don't understand is why it takes another near identical PSA Registry set to what already exists to validate what you collect. (and by you I'm not meaning you per se...But rather those who are fans of inclusiveness.
To me, it's the same opinion that guys have with the HOF..That why don;t they lift the 5 modern limit and elect everyone under the sun, 15 guys a year...EXCLUSIVENESS brings value to things..Overproduction and overkill 99.999% of the time leads to DE-valuing. In all facets of anything financial that you want to examine.
Like I said...You guys can do whatever you want with Key Card sets. But if you think a new HOF set for every position is going to happen without a fight (which IMO would end up lessening the value of the overall set) you are mistaken. And again by "you" I am speaking in general term towards anyone who plans on requesting said sets.
Jason >>
well we are basically there already. there are separate sets for each teams HOFers. pure duplication of the HOF rookie set. by these sets i dont mean the team HOF sets (like the Packers HOF set, Cowboys Ring of Honor etc).
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
well we are basically there already. there are separate sets for each teams HOFers. pure duplication of the HOF rookie set. by these sets i dont mean the team HOF sets (like the Packers HOF set, Cowboys Ring of Honor etc). >>
Agreed, so why pile on?
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
well we are basically there already. there are separate sets for each teams HOFers. pure duplication of the HOF rookie set. by these sets i dont mean the team HOF sets (like the Packers HOF set, Cowboys Ring of Honor etc). >>
Agreed, so why pile on? >>
Agreed also. I have always kept this to myself but since everyone else is chiming in, here I go. The annual leading rusher set for instance - why not collect the most valuable card from the YEAR they led the league? Emmitt Smith lead the league in rushing four times but only has one card in the set. Why not have a card from each year? You would have one card for every year from 1935 (depending if they made a card of the player) to present.
Same goes for the Defensive player of the year. Charles Woodson won the award as a Packer but the card in the set is him as a Raider - What kind of crap is that?
The reason I created the Green Bay Packer HOF set the way I did (with Jay's help) was show the player in a Packer Uniform. For instance, Brett Favre will have the 1992 Stadium Club as his card, not the 1991 Stadium club. Woodson will have his Topps Chrome or SP (depending on vote) when he gets in. I think it would make the sets more collectible as you show a card from each year. It is just my opinion but I like to add cards each year to the set.
So when Woodson wins the Defensive player of the year award next year and Tomlinson leads the league in rushing no cards get added. Kinda sad.
well we are basically there already. there are separate sets for each teams HOFers. pure duplication of the HOF rookie set. by these sets i dont mean the team HOF sets (like the Packers HOF set, Cowboys Ring of Honor etc). >>
Agreed, so why pile on? >>
Agreed also. I have always kept this to myself but since everyone else is chiming in, here I go. The annual leading rusher set for instance - why not collect the most valuable card from the YEAR they led the league? Emmitt Smith lead the league in rushing four times but only has one card in the set. Why not have a card from each year? You would have one card for every year from 1935 (depending if they made a card of the player) to present.
Same goes for the Defensive player of the year. Charles Woodson won the award as a Packer but the card in the set is him as a Raider - What kind of crap is that?
The reason I created the Green Bay Packer HOF set the way I did (with Jay's help) was show the player in a Packer Uniform. For instance, Brett Favre will have the 1992 Stadium Club as his card, not the 1991 Stadium club. Woodson will have his Topps Chrome or SP (depending on vote) when he gets in. I think it would make the sets more collectible as you show a card from each year. It is just my opinion but I like to add cards each year to the set.
So when Woodson wins the Defensive player of the year award next year and Tomlinson leads the league in rushing no cards get added. Kinda sad.
Troy >>
Troy, we need more out of the box thinkers like you...Rather than mindlessly re-listing the same mini-sets to get free gradings or whatever. Instead of diluting what is already great about the Registry, come up with some new different ideas that use DIFFERENT cards. Sets like that I'd have no problem with. An example, Davemri collects oddball pre-rookie type cards of HOFers. If he were to request a HOF set comprised solely of the oddball pre-rookies, i would have no issue at all with something like that being added to the current group of HOF sets. Would be something entirely new and unique. And IMO could bring a new group of collectors into the field.
Another HOF RB/Rushers set is the last thing we need..Except for those who need the free $5 grading at the expense of worsening the current clutter.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Davemri collects oddball pre-rookie type cards of HOFers. If he were to request a HOF set comprised solely of the oddball pre-rookies, i would have no issue at all with something like that being added to the current group of HOF sets. Would be something entirely new and unique. And IMO could bring a new group of collectors into the field.
>>
Thats something I thought about doing, but I was afraid I'd attract too much competition from other collectors. Many of the cards I'm looking for have very few known examples.
Comments
<< <i>On a side note, say Cortez Kennedy gets in, which card should we add for the HOF set? For the 90s team of the decade the Score Update is used, for the Future HOF it is the Action Packed - I am a much bigger fan of the Score Update (and that is the recognized rookie for Emmitt who has cards in both sets). Why would we not go with that one?
>>
I think PSA ruled on this a few years ago, but I dont remember the specifics. At that time, they changed the Seau RC used from the Score to the Action Packed. I agree with you though....They need to get some consistancy in the process.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>There are quite a few players in the rushers set that need to be voted out if, in fact, 10K is no longer an automatic ticket. That is the only reason a few of those guys made it. >>
I see some names that should be removed as well but what was (or should be) the criteria for the set? At this point I don't understand how the set was originally put together and how certain players were added over the years.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>
On a side note, say Cortez Kennedy gets in, which card should we add for the HOF set? For the 90s team of the decade the Score Update is used, for the Future HOF it is the Action Packed - I am a much bigger fan of the Score Update (and that is the recognized rookie for Emmitt who has cards in both sets). Why would we not go with that one? >>
The Future HOF set DIRECTLY feeds the HOF Rookie Player set. Once elected, card gets deleted from Future HOF set and added to Hall of Fame Rookie Player set. If you go to the Future HOF set and read the set rules is alreasy tells you this specifically:
"As these players are elected the the Pro Football Hall of Fame, their card will be deleted from this Registry set and added directly to the NFL Hall of Fame Rookie Players set."
There will be no debate towards which card gets added to the HOF Rookie Player set, as we've already had those debates when voting towards the Future HOF set.PSA would not allow the Score Supplemental as they have determined that is not a true rookie card. Same with the Seau. Whatever is in any of the key card sets is meaningless.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>There are quite a few players in the rushers set that need to be voted out if, in fact, 10K is no longer an automatic ticket. That is the only reason a few of those guys made it. >>
LOL, send the request! PSA will blast a poll and if majority vote them off, adios. Again, these sets have been FUBAR because the All-Time Rushers set for example USED TO BE a combination of All-Time Greats and 10,000 yard rusher sets. This is back when PSA had some discretion and when someone requested a 10,000 yard rusher set THEY DECLINED to add it, instead morphing the 2 sets into 1 set. All 10k rushers were AUTOMATICALLY added to the set All-Time rushers (notice it isn't listed as All-Time GREAT rushers). I asked them way back to add some rules to each set so newbs would understand how they are set up and was told it wasn't necessary. Obviously it was ,as memories (and job titles) on the PSA staff have changed over the years.
Now, since they jumped the shark on Key Card sets they would probably add an All-Time rushing attempts set,All-Time rushing TD set, All-Time yards per carry, All-Time fumbles, etc, etc. If you want a set that makes an automatic addition someone will need to request a 10,000 yard rusher set. You'll still get a vote on which card to add, but the player addition won't be yes/no.
I mean at this point the more sets the merrier right? Free gradings right? No worry about the slow burn. The HOF Rookie player set for example had a net gain of 13 new collectors in 2010. All-Time rushers set had a net gain of -2 collectors. Nuff said.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
I see some names that should be removed as well but what was (or should be) the criteria for the set? At this point I don't understand how the set was originally put together and how certain players were added over the years. >>
GREAT POINT! And many of the newer collectors of the set are in the same boat. Not to mention PSA staff memories are not good, and no rules or guidelines were ever posted. Thank goodness Cosetta was still the set addition person when we created the Future HOF sets as I asked (and received) the option of adding the rules/guidelines on how the sets are put together. IMO, this has and will continue to save those sets from being FUBAR. Without it, a subjective set, which is what 99.999% of the Key Card sets are open to interpretation. And as each new collector joins the fray (although the set has lost more than it has gained in 2010) a new opinion is added to the mix. Such a shame.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>LOL, send the request! PSA will blast a poll and if majority vote them off, adios. Again, these sets have been FUBAR because the All-Time Rushers set for example USED TO BE a combination of All-Time Greats and 10,000 yard rusher sets. This is back when PSA had some discretion and when someone requested a 10,000 yard rusher set THEY DECLINED to add it, instead morphing the 2 sets into 1 set. All 10k rushers were AUTOMATICALLY added to the set All-Time rushers (notice it isn't listed as All-Time GREAT rushers). I asked them way back to add some rules to each set so newbs would understand how they are set up and was told it wasn't necessary. Obviously it was ,as memories (and job titles) on the PSA staff have changed over the years.
>>
Just to be clear, I have absolutely no intereset in the All time rushers set for the same reason as you. I'm only registered becasue I have the bulk of the cards. Thus, I could care less whether the guys I mentioned are in or out of the set. I wont be putting any effort forward into requesting the deletion.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>1990 Score Supplemental is not a rookie card for either Seau or Kennedy because they both had regular issue Score cards. Take the 1982 Topps Traded Ripken vs. regular issue '82 Topps for example. The Topps Traded card is more valuable, but it is not a rookie. Emmitt Smith did not have a regular issue 1990 Score card, and his Score Supplemental is his most valuable first-year issue, thus it's his key rookie card. >>
that makes sense, and the logic is sound.
I think that Otis Anderson definitely belongs in the all time great rushers as well as Corey Dillon. Some of the other ones maybe not. Otis Anderson has a lot of major accomplishments in a great career including a Super Bowl MVP. Thomas Jones is just a guy to me.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Jason, Do you remember why PSA chose the Score RC for Smith, and the Action packed for Seau and Kennedy. I remember the discussion, but cant seem to remember the reasoning behind it.
Dave >>
Because the Score Supplemental for Kennedy and Seau is not listed as a rookie card in the Beckett Ultimate Rookie Card Encyclopedia. Exact words from the PSA Registry crew.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>If it were up to me, I would vote out Anderson, Waters, Dunn, Dillon, Barber, James, Lewis, George, and Taylor. An average back can get to 10K yards any more especially when the 18 game schedule comes along. This should be the greatest RB's in the history of the game, which does not include the ones I listed above. Just my opinion of course.
Dave >>
I have to disagree, if an average back could get 10,000 yards it would occur far more frequently than it does. We are lucky to see 1-2 backs accomplish that milestone from every draft. Those playing an 18 game schedule could benefit from more games or have their careers shortened from the extra touches every season.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I see some names that should be removed as well but what was (or should be) the criteria for the set? At this point I don't understand how the set was originally put together and how certain players were added over the years. >>
GREAT POINT! And many of the newer collectors of the set are in the same boat. Not to mention PSA staff memories are not good, and no rules or guidelines were ever posted. Thank goodness Cosetta was still the set addition person when we created the Future HOF sets as I asked (and received) the option of adding the rules/guidelines on how the sets are put together. IMO, this has and will continue to save those sets from being FUBAR. Without it, a subjective set, which is what 99.999% of the Key Card sets are open to interpretation. And as each new collector joins the fray (although the set has lost more than it has gained in 2010) a new opinion is added to the mix. Such a shame.
Jason >>
That's my issue w/ the set right now, a lack of any clear guidelines or rules. Since it is a "rushers set" why not go w/ yardage?
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>I have to disagree, if an average back could get 10,000 yards it would occur far more frequently than it does. We are lucky to see 1-2 backs accomplish that milestone from every draft. Those playing an 18 game schedule could benefit from more games or have their careers shortened from the extra touches every season. >>
Valid points, but 10K yards just doesn't have the same meaning as it did 20 years ago. As offensive numbers continue to increase, the more it "lessens" certain accomplishments. Kinda like a QB passing for 4K yards in a season. When Marino was doing it 25 years ago, it was phenonminal, now, not so much. Just look to see how many passed for 4K this year.
Back to RBs.....1K yards in a season doesnt have the same meaning as it did either.
I guess I look at all time greats (at any position) and expect them to have a great shot of being a HOFer. I dont see any of the guys I listed above as HOF'ers. Maybe my opinion is slightly skewed since I only collect HOFer's.
dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>I have to disagree, if an average back could get 10,000 yards it would occur far more frequently than it does. We are lucky to see 1-2 backs accomplish that milestone from every draft. Those playing an 18 game schedule could benefit from more games or have their careers shortened from the extra touches every season. >>
Valid points, but 10K yards just doesn't have the same meaning as it did 20 years ago. As offensive numbers continue to increase, the more it "lessens" certain accomplishments. Kinda like a QB passing for 4K yards in a season. When Marino was doing it 25 years ago, it was phenonminal, now, not so much. Just look to see how many passed for 4K this year.
Back to RBs.....1K yards in a season doesnt have the same meaning as it did either.
I guess I look at all time greats (at any position) and expect them to have a great shot of being a HOFer. I dont see any of the guys I listed above as HOF'ers. Maybe my opinion is slightly skewed since I only collect HOFer's.
dave >>
Current backs aren't putting up incredible numbers like QB's and WR's though. There is one 10,000 rusher from the 1998 draft class, one from 1999, two from 2000, one from 2001, and zero from 2002-on. 10,000 yards isn't what it was in the 70's but its still a big accomplishment considering only a limited number of backs hit the milestone.
I agree that 1,000 yards rushing isn't a major accomplishment but IMO it becomes one when a back does it a number of time in their career.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>I still collect the All-Time sets, but not as passionately as I once did. I think a terrific solution would be to have something like 10,000 Yard Rushers, 10,000 Yard Receivers, and 30,000 Yard Passers sets, and then HOF Wide Receivers, HOF Running Backs, and HOF Quarterbacks sets. All key rookie cards of course. Would there be some redundancy among certain sets? Absolutely. But the rules would be crystal clear. And we'd still have the future HOF'er sets for players that hadn't hit any magic marks yet but were regarded as shoo-ins. Just my 2 cents. >>
I think that is a great suggestion and a set request I will probably make.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>Honestly, I'd be happy with 2 sets.............. The football HOF RC's and Future (Modern) RC's. Those are the only 2 I actively persue. >>
Amen brotha!
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>I still collect the All-Time sets, but not as passionately as I once did. I think a terrific solution would be to have something like 10,000 Yard Rushers, 10,000 Yard Receivers, and 30,000 Yard Passers sets, and then HOF Wide Receivers, HOF Running Backs, and HOF Quarterbacks sets. All key rookie cards of course. Would there be some redundancy among certain sets? Absolutely. But the rules would be crystal clear. And we'd still have the future HOF'er sets for players that hadn't hit any magic marks yet but were regarded as shoo-ins. Just my 2 cents. >>
I think that is a great suggestion and a set request I will probably make. >>
I will lobby against the HOF WR, RB, QB sets if I see them on the request list. These would end up as HOF sets and not key card sets, and we don't need anymore HOF sets...I will exhaust all resources to save the HOF set category from becoming the Key Card set category...That was my caveat to leaving the Key Card sets, I will protect the HOF category until they pry this keyboard from my cold dead fingers.
Just entirely unnecessary. Come on fellas, when does overkill become overkill? Why does everyone need 10000 sets to tell them what to collect? Collect what you want, if it doesn't fit a current set, list it in the Showcase...Free grades and set winner certificates are not worth the price of what the redundancy was done to so many of the sets already.
Just my opinion of course.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Current backs aren't putting up incredible numbers like QB's and WR's though. There is one 10,000 rusher from the 1998 draft class, one from 1999, two from 2000, one from 2001, and zero from 2002-on. 10,000 yards isn't what it was in the 70's but its still a big accomplishment considering only a limited number of backs hit the milestone.
>>
BUT............ Of the 25 players that have rushed for over 10K yards, only 11 of them started their careers before 1990. So the first 70 years of the NFL produced 11 10K yard rushers and there were 14 in the last 20 years. Not to mention 2 more (Portis and R. Williams) that will most likely hit 10K next year.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Lastly, I am totally against voting out any player that is already in the set. I actually think it's kind of dis-repectful that after a set has been established and collected for years, that a newbie can come in and say "Who's P. Hornung? His stats stink! I'm going to have him voted out of the set!"
If someone new wants to collect the set, than collect it. Their input into the set should be from that point forward.
<< <i>
Lastly, I am totally against voting out any player that is already in the set. I actually think it's kind of dis-repectful that after a set has been established and collected for years, that a newbie can come in and say "Who's P. Hornung? His stats stink! I'm going to have him voted out of the set!"
If someone new wants to collect the set, than collect it. Their input into the set should be from that point forward. >>
Well said! It is actually how things were run by the PSA Registry crew a few years ago when things still made sense. There were some personnel/responsibility changes and instead of this common sense approach, it became more about appeasing whoever was asking. The word "No" no longer exists there it seems...You can now request whatever you want and PSA will oblige your request by sending out a poll. The 2 final straws for me where the addition of the ENTIRE 45 man 2000 Team of the Decade rather than FIRST TEAM as we'd listed all the other decade sets. They at least fixed that one, which was my final key card set request...
The other final straw was PSA sending out a poll to add Brett Favre to the 1990's Team of the Decade set...I mean are you friggin kidding me? They couldn't catch that before sending out a poll to add a 2nd team QB to a 1st team set?
At least with the HOF RC set, the HOF voters determine who gets added. And the Future Modern and Senior sets, I was able to get the guidelines/rules included. They also (thus far) have allowed us here on the boards to maintain control of the Future sets by limiting addition requests to Once per year and based on our vote here on the boards. It was again a request I made to keep things simple and under CORE collector control. Hopefully we can keep it going...
AP All-Pros should be out in the next few days and we will begin our annual add/subtract poll for the modern set. We completed the senior poll vote in September as always.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>Current backs aren't putting up incredible numbers like QB's and WR's though. There is one 10,000 rusher from the 1998 draft class, one from 1999, two from 2000, one from 2001, and zero from 2002-on. 10,000 yards isn't what it was in the 70's but its still a big accomplishment considering only a limited number of backs hit the milestone.
>>
BUT............ Of the 25 players that have rushed for over 10K yards, only 11 of them started their careers before 1990. So the first 70 years of the NFL produced 11 10K yard rushers and there were 14 in the last 20 years. Not to mention 2 more (Portis and R. Williams) that will most likely hit 10K next year. >>
What changed after 1990 to produce more 10,000 yard backs? The schedule was changed in the 70's so there sould have been more backs in the 1980's w/ 10,000 yards rushing. IMO we just happen to see some quality backs emerge during that decade. Portis has been close the past 2 years but hasn't been healthy enough to hit the mark while Williams is an older back that another team might not take a chance on. I believe the number of backs reaching 10,000 yards after 1990 is more a reflection of a rare spike in talent and longevity than anything else. From 2000-on things seemed to have gone back to a minimal number of backs hitting the 10,000 yard mark.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
Sam
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I still collect the All-Time sets, but not as passionately as I once did. I think a terrific solution would be to have something like 10,000 Yard Rushers, 10,000 Yard Receivers, and 30,000 Yard Passers sets, and then HOF Wide Receivers, HOF Running Backs, and HOF Quarterbacks sets. All key rookie cards of course. Would there be some redundancy among certain sets? Absolutely. But the rules would be crystal clear. And we'd still have the future HOF'er sets for players that hadn't hit any magic marks yet but were regarded as shoo-ins. Just my 2 cents. >>
I think that is a great suggestion and a set request I will probably make. >>
I will lobby against the HOF WR, RB, QB sets if I see them on the request list. These would end up as HOF sets and not key card sets, and we don't need anymore HOF sets...I will exhaust all resources to save the HOF set category from becoming the Key Card set category...That was my caveat to leaving the Key Card sets, I will protect the HOF category until they pry this keyboard from my cold dead fingers.
Just entirely unnecessary. Come on fellas, when does overkill become overkill? Why does everyone need 10000 sets to tell them what to collect? Collect what you want, if it doesn't fit a current set, list it in the Showcase...Free grades and set winner certificates are not worth the price of what the redundancy was done to so many of the sets already.
Just my opinion of course.
Jason >>
There are clear stats to be included in the sack and interception sets so why shouldn't the same standard be applied to sets that cover the other side of the ball?
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>I thought the 10,000 yard criteria still applied to the All-Time Rushers set, but given the option to consider whether T. Jones deserved to be in the set or not, I believe I voted no. (Can't remember). I wouldn't mind the automatic inclusion if that becomes the rule. I would like to vote as to which card would be used in the set.
Lastly, I am totally against voting out any player that is already in the set. I actually think it's kind of dis-repectful that after a set has been established and collected for years, that a newbie can come in and say "Who's P. Hornung? His stats stink! I'm going to have him voted out of the set!"
If someone new wants to collect the set, than collect it. Their input into the set should be from that point forward. >>
Since SP seems to be the card of choice for rookies starting in 2000 I suggested that for Jones.
How does Hornung belong in the All Time Rushers Set? I don't see why he was included to begin with.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
SP Authentic was the right card for Jones. I voted against Jones even though I have a PSa 10 of his RC. I felt, like the majority, that he just wasn't great. No playoff apperances that I can recall, no championships, I don't think he's even had any Pro Bowls. Now if the criteria for the set was 10,000 being automatic admission, I wouldn't have a problem with him being in the set, based off of that.
As for Hornung, he was included in the initial making of the set. I'm sure Jasen can give you his exact stats and accomplishments (those military guys are very exacting, god bless them)
Off the top of my head I know Hornungs rushing yardage would be considered pedestrian, but he won Championships, he won Super Bowls, he was an all pro and I also beleive he functioned as the teams kicker. He was the "Golden Boy" on the premier team of that period. Many of the old-time rushers (M. Motley, J. Perry, S. VanBuren) had "uninspiring" rushing stats, but were still considered great by how the played.
Bottom line, once a player has been vetted and in a set, it should be permanent.
<< <i>
There are clear stats to be included in the sack and interception sets so why shouldn't the same standard be applied to sets that cover the other side of the ball? >>
The sack and interception sets are Key Card sets based on numbers. Not HOF DBs and HOF DL...You can request all the 10,000 yard rusher sets that you want. I have zero interest in any Key Card sets. I was speaking specifically about a HOF QB, RB, WR set that consisted ONLY of HOF players at those positions.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>actually the card of choice from 2001 on is Topps Chrome...........which i also dont agree with completly. >>
I apologize I wasn't clear, just for the 2000 rookie class.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>actually the card of choice from 2001 on is Topps Chrome...........which i also dont agree with completly. >>
Incorrect...There is no "card choice" from any season. For the HOF sets at least, the card MUST FIRST be listed in Beckett's Ultimate Rookie Card Encyclopedia. Once that is established, it is the most valuable card of each specific player excluding anything numbered less than /999.
That goes for all years! Key Card sets, not really any rules or guidelines anymore. Just wait until the autograph, insert, parallel cards start getting voted onto those key card sets..It's coming! ANYONE CAN REQUEST ANY CARD be added to the Key Card sets. I wasn't kidding when I said Ty Cobb on the Rushers set. If I collected the set, I could request it and PSA would send out a poll...lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Since SP seems to be the card of choice for rookies starting in 2000 I suggested that for Jones.
SP Authentic was the right card for Jones. I voted against Jones even though I have a PSa 10 of his RC. I felt, like the majority, that he just wasn't great. No playoff apperances that I can recall, no championships, I don't think he's even had any Pro Bowls. Now if the criteria for the set was 10,000 being automatic admission, I wouldn't have a problem with him being in the set, based off of that.
As for Hornung, he was included in the initial making of the set. I'm sure Jasen can give you his exact stats and accomplishments (those military guys are very exacting, god bless them)
Off the top of my head I know Hornungs rushing yardage would be considered pedestrian, but he won Championships, he won Super Bowls, he was an all pro and I also beleive he functioned as the teams kicker. He was the "Golden Boy" on the premier team of that period. Many of the old-time rushers (M. Motley, J. Perry, S. VanBuren) had "uninspiring" rushing stats, but were still considered great by how the played.
Bottom line, once a player has been vetted and in a set, it should be permanent. >>
Since 10,000 yards isn't automatic I agree w/ your pointson Jones but I believe there are other backs who are similar to Jones already in the set.
Those other backs at least led their teams in rushing and I believe Perry and Van Buren were the All Time rushing leaders when they retired (could be very wrong though lol). IMO Hornung's kicking stats shouldn't have been used to include hiim in the set since it refers to rushing the ball.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>
<< <i>
There are clear stats to be included in the sack and interception sets so why shouldn't the same standard be applied to sets that cover the other side of the ball? >>
The sack and interception sets are Key Card sets based on numbers. Not HOF DBs and HOF DL...You can request all the 10,000 yard rusher sets that you want. I have zero interest in any Key Card sets. I was speaking specifically about a HOF QB, RB, WR set that consisted ONLY of HOF players at those positions.
Jason >>
I thought the 10,000 yard rusher set was an excellent idea!
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>
Since 10,000 yards isn't automatic I agree w/ your pointson Jones but I believe there are other backs who are similar to Jones already in the set.
Those other backs at least led their teams in rushing and I believe Perry and Van Buren were the All Time rushing leaders when they retired (could be very wrong though lol). IMO Hornung's kicking stats shouldn't have been used to include hiim in the set since it refers to rushing the ball. >>
We've discussed Hornung on that set in the past. The consensus was that due to the VALUE AND IMPORTANCE of Hornung's rookie card in the hobby, that it belonged in the set. Even if his stat line did not.
Gotta remember, these are CARD sets. Not just lists of stats or guys who were great.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Since 10,000 yards isn't automatic I agree w/ your pointson Jones but I believe there are other backs who are similar to Jones already in the set.
Those other backs at least led their teams in rushing and I believe Perry and Van Buren were the All Time rushing leaders when they retired (could be very wrong though lol). IMO Hornung's kicking stats shouldn't have been used to include hiim in the set since it refers to rushing the ball. >>
We've discussed Hornung on that set in the past. The consensus was that due to the VALUE AND IMPORTANCE of Hornung's rookie card in the hobby, that it belonged in the set. Even if his stat line did not.
Gotta remember, these are CARD sets. Not just lists of stats or guys who were great.
Jason >>
Ok, I understand that line of thought (but I still don't like it lol).
This thread has been busy today.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>
Ok, I understand that line of thought (but I still don't like it lol).
This thread has been busy today.
Talking cards and watching playoff football...Doesn't get much better!
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Thanks for clarifying that Jason. I started collecting the set shortly after the initial cards were established, so I wasn't part of the card selection process.
Since PSA is in the "don't say no mode", maybe it is time for a 10,000 yard rushing sets for the stat oriented guys. Than we wouldn't have these debates for the All-Time sets.
No debate on that
<< <i>I will lobby against the HOF WR, RB, QB sets if I see them on the request list. These would end up as HOF sets and not key card sets, and we don't need anymore HOF sets...I will exhaust all resources to save the HOF set category from becoming the Key Card set category...That was my caveat to leaving the Key Card sets, I will protect the HOF category until they pry this keyboard from my cold dead fingers. Just entirely unnecessary. Come on fellas, when does overkill become overkill? Why does everyone need 10000 sets to tell them what to collect? Collect what you want, if it doesn't fit a current set, list it in the Showcase...Free grades and set winner certificates are not worth the price of what the redundancy was done to so many of the sets already. Just my opinion of course. Jason >>
I don't know why you're getting your feathers all ruffled. My suggestion was to take the EXACT cards that are in the HOF rookies set and just create smaller sets based on positions. There are collectors who just go after the QBs. Some just do the RBs. And so on. Personally I am happy with just the HOF rookies and future rookies sets too, but the All-Time sets need re-thinking and this was one suggestion. I would never vote for anything that changed the HOF rookies set in any way. It's one of my absolute favorites as is. Also I don't care how many sets PSA allows. I don't see why anybody should. if someone wants to collect a set that I think is silly, it has no bearing on me at all.
<< <i>Talking cards and watching playoff football...Doesn't get much better! >>
I agree.....this is the most action this thread has gotten in a long time....
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I have to disagree, if an average back could get 10,000 yards it would occur far more frequently than it does. We are lucky to see 1-2 backs accomplish that milestone from every draft. Those playing an 18 game schedule could benefit from more games or have their careers shortened from the extra touches every season. >>
Valid points, but 10K yards just doesn't have the same meaning as it did 20 years ago. As offensive numbers continue to increase, the more it "lessens" certain accomplishments. Kinda like a QB passing for 4K yards in a season. When Marino was doing it 25 years ago, it was phenonminal, now, not so much. Just look to see how many passed for 4K this year.
Back to RBs.....1K yards in a season doesnt have the same meaning as it did either.
I guess I look at all time greats (at any position) and expect them to have a great shot of being a HOFer. I dont see any of the guys I listed above as HOF'ers. Maybe my opinion is slightly skewed since I only collect HOFer's.
dave >>
Current backs aren't putting up incredible numbers like QB's and WR's though. There is one 10,000 rusher from the 1998 draft class, one from 1999, two from 2000, one from 2001, and zero from 2002-on. 10,000 yards isn't what it was in the 70's but its still a big accomplishment considering only a limited number of backs hit the milestone.
I agree that 1,000 yards rushing isn't a major accomplishment but IMO it becomes one when a back does it a number of time in their career. >>
I tend to agree with the opinion that the 10,000 yd mark being a big accomplishment. Many teams now a days have multiple back systems, and it seems like there are really no "feature" backs anymore...with a few exceptions.
<< <i>
I don't know why you're getting your feathers all ruffled. My suggestion was to take the EXACT cards that are in the HOF rookies set and just create smaller sets based on positions. There are collectors who just go after the QBs. Some just do the RBs. And so on. Personally I am happy with just the HOF rookies and future rookies sets too, but the All-Time sets need re-thinking and this was one suggestion. I would never vote for anything that changed the HOF rookies set in any way. It's one of my absolute favorites as is. Also I don't care how many sets PSA allows. I don't see why anybody should. if someone wants to collect a set that I think is silly, it has no bearing on me at all. >>
Feathers ruffled??? Sorry. I'm not your turkey...lol
Seriously though, your opinion is your opinion and that is fine. But if you think the overkill of key card sets hasn't affected you (or more importantly the value of your collection) you are looking VERY small picture at things.
You are free to collect whatever you want, what I don't understand is why it takes another near identical PSA Registry set to what already exists to validate what you collect. (and by you I'm not meaning you per se...But rather those who are fans of inclusiveness.
To me, it's the same opinion that guys have with the HOF..That why don;t they lift the 5 modern limit and elect everyone under the sun, 15 guys a year...EXCLUSIVENESS brings value to things..Overproduction and overkill 99.999% of the time leads to DE-valuing. In all facets of anything financial that you want to examine.
Like I said...You guys can do whatever you want with Key Card sets. But if you think a new HOF set for every position is going to happen without a fight (which IMO would end up lessening the value of the overall set) you are mistaken. And again by "you" I am speaking in general term towards anyone who plans on requesting said sets.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I don't know why you're getting your feathers all ruffled. My suggestion was to take the EXACT cards that are in the HOF rookies set and just create smaller sets based on positions. There are collectors who just go after the QBs. Some just do the RBs. And so on. Personally I am happy with just the HOF rookies and future rookies sets too, but the All-Time sets need re-thinking and this was one suggestion. I would never vote for anything that changed the HOF rookies set in any way. It's one of my absolute favorites as is. Also I don't care how many sets PSA allows. I don't see why anybody should. if someone wants to collect a set that I think is silly, it has no bearing on me at all. >>
Feathers ruffled??? Sorry. I'm not your turkey...lol
Seriously though, your opinion is your opinion and that is fine. But if you think the overkill of key card sets hasn't affected you (or more importantly the value of your collection) you are looking VERY small picture at things.
You are free to collect whatever you want, what I don't understand is why it takes another near identical PSA Registry set to what already exists to validate what you collect. (and by you I'm not meaning you per se...But rather those who are fans of inclusiveness.
To me, it's the same opinion that guys have with the HOF..That why don;t they lift the 5 modern limit and elect everyone under the sun, 15 guys a year...EXCLUSIVENESS brings value to things..Overproduction and overkill 99.999% of the time leads to DE-valuing. In all facets of anything financial that you want to examine.
Like I said...You guys can do whatever you want with Key Card sets. But if you think a new HOF set for every position is going to happen without a fight (which IMO would end up lessening the value of the overall set) you are mistaken. And again by "you" I am speaking in general term towards anyone who plans on requesting said sets.
Jason >>
well we are basically there already. there are separate sets for each teams HOFers. pure duplication of the HOF rookie set. by these sets i dont mean the team HOF sets (like the Packers HOF set, Cowboys Ring of Honor etc).
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>
well we are basically there already. there are separate sets for each teams HOFers. pure duplication of the HOF rookie set. by these sets i dont mean the team HOF sets (like the Packers HOF set, Cowboys Ring of Honor etc). >>
Agreed, so why pile on?
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
well we are basically there already. there are separate sets for each teams HOFers. pure duplication of the HOF rookie set. by these sets i dont mean the team HOF sets (like the Packers HOF set, Cowboys Ring of Honor etc). >>
Agreed, so why pile on? >>
Agreed also. I have always kept this to myself but since everyone else is chiming in, here I go. The annual leading rusher set for instance - why not collect the most valuable card from the YEAR they led the league? Emmitt Smith lead the league in rushing four times but only has one card in the set. Why not have a card from each year? You would have one card for every year from 1935 (depending if they made a card of the player) to present.
Same goes for the Defensive player of the year. Charles Woodson won the award as a Packer but the card in the set is him as a Raider - What kind of crap is that?
The reason I created the Green Bay Packer HOF set the way I did (with Jay's help) was show the player in a Packer Uniform. For instance, Brett Favre will have the 1992 Stadium Club as his card, not the 1991 Stadium club. Woodson will have his Topps Chrome or SP (depending on vote) when he gets in. I think it would make the sets more collectible as you show a card from each year. It is just my opinion but I like to add cards each year to the set.
So when Woodson wins the Defensive player of the year award next year and Tomlinson leads the league in rushing no cards get added. Kinda sad.
Troy
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
well we are basically there already. there are separate sets for each teams HOFers. pure duplication of the HOF rookie set. by these sets i dont mean the team HOF sets (like the Packers HOF set, Cowboys Ring of Honor etc). >>
Agreed, so why pile on? >>
Agreed also. I have always kept this to myself but since everyone else is chiming in, here I go. The annual leading rusher set for instance - why not collect the most valuable card from the YEAR they led the league? Emmitt Smith lead the league in rushing four times but only has one card in the set. Why not have a card from each year? You would have one card for every year from 1935 (depending if they made a card of the player) to present.
Same goes for the Defensive player of the year. Charles Woodson won the award as a Packer but the card in the set is him as a Raider - What kind of crap is that?
The reason I created the Green Bay Packer HOF set the way I did (with Jay's help) was show the player in a Packer Uniform. For instance, Brett Favre will have the 1992 Stadium Club as his card, not the 1991 Stadium club. Woodson will have his Topps Chrome or SP (depending on vote) when he gets in. I think it would make the sets more collectible as you show a card from each year. It is just my opinion but I like to add cards each year to the set.
So when Woodson wins the Defensive player of the year award next year and Tomlinson leads the league in rushing no cards get added. Kinda sad.
Troy >>
Troy, we need more out of the box thinkers like you...Rather than mindlessly re-listing the same mini-sets to get free gradings or whatever. Instead of diluting what is already great about the Registry, come up with some new different ideas that use DIFFERENT cards. Sets like that I'd have no problem with. An example, Davemri collects oddball pre-rookie type cards of HOFers. If he were to request a HOF set comprised solely of the oddball pre-rookies, i would have no issue at all with something like that being added to the current group of HOF sets. Would be something entirely new and unique. And IMO could bring a new group of collectors into the field.
Another HOF RB/Rushers set is the last thing we need..Except for those who need the free $5 grading at the expense of worsening the current clutter.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Davemri collects oddball pre-rookie type cards of HOFers. If he were to request a HOF set comprised solely of the oddball pre-rookies, i would have no issue at all with something like that being added to the current group of HOF sets. Would be something entirely new and unique. And IMO could bring a new group of collectors into the field.
>>
Thats something I thought about doing, but I was afraid I'd attract too much competition from other collectors. Many of the cards I'm looking for have very few known examples.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!