Philosophy behind the buying of AU-58 grade coins
Bear
Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
This can be a most pleasing grade if one follows
a few common sense rules:
1. I find that PCGS generally has the nicest AU-58s
This is not absolute, but generally.
2. A number of the better AU-58s have already been upgraded.
3. If you want the top of the line AU-58s, then you will have
to go over the Gray Sheet up to MS-60 or even 62. Might be worth it
as these PQ 58s are often nicer looking then the average 62s
4. While I depend on PCGS to the seperate the really doggy 58s, one must develope your
own standards as to what you expect and desire in PQ 58s.
5. In a down market, grading always tightens up, because buyers will demand more quality from a given grade.
Stick with PQ coins for the grade, and they will hold up grade wise in a down market.
6. If your instincts give you an immediate warning about something about the coin,
then think twice before buying it. No matter how favorable the price or hyped the sellers accolades,
what you see that bothers you will still be there for the new buyer when you eventually sell the coin.
7. Buying a AU-58 coin it is a lot like a woman buying a dress. They generally know immediately, if the dress really
looks good on them. If they have to think about it too much, then they generally return the dress within a few days.
On a 58, you either like it immediately or its probably a good thing to pass.
Hope these tips are helpfull to the newbies out there.
a few common sense rules:
1. I find that PCGS generally has the nicest AU-58s
This is not absolute, but generally.
2. A number of the better AU-58s have already been upgraded.
3. If you want the top of the line AU-58s, then you will have
to go over the Gray Sheet up to MS-60 or even 62. Might be worth it
as these PQ 58s are often nicer looking then the average 62s
4. While I depend on PCGS to the seperate the really doggy 58s, one must develope your
own standards as to what you expect and desire in PQ 58s.
5. In a down market, grading always tightens up, because buyers will demand more quality from a given grade.
Stick with PQ coins for the grade, and they will hold up grade wise in a down market.
6. If your instincts give you an immediate warning about something about the coin,
then think twice before buying it. No matter how favorable the price or hyped the sellers accolades,
what you see that bothers you will still be there for the new buyer when you eventually sell the coin.
7. Buying a AU-58 coin it is a lot like a woman buying a dress. They generally know immediately, if the dress really
looks good on them. If they have to think about it too much, then they generally return the dress within a few days.
On a 58, you either like it immediately or its probably a good thing to pass.
Hope these tips are helpfull to the newbies out there.
There once was a place called
Camelot
Camelot
8
Comments
And yes, if you're buying 58s for AU money, particularly in auction, you're almost certainly not getting the PQ, "true" 58s. The very nicest of the bunch often sell for somewhere between 61 and 63 money.
jom
<< <i>Couldn't you apply many of your suggestions to ANY grade and not just AU58? >>
You can, but I think AU-58 can be a special case because when properly graded, many people value it more highly than accurately graded coins with a *higher* numerical designation (hence so much market grading of AU coins as MS).
In other words, many people would value a properly graded AU-58 higher than a properly graded MS-60, but none would value a properly graded VF-35 more highly than a properly graded EF-40. That creates a rather unique market condition that doesn't apply quite so much with any other grade designation.
unusual grade indeed. In general
appearence, it almost rivals the MS-64.
When it comes to luster, strike and overall niceness
it looks as good as most 64s with only the
slightest wear on the highest points. I have found that almost
all MS-60 thru MS-63 coins tend to be bow wows. They are lacking
in their toning, luster and strike. Also, while they may not have the
technical wear, the do have plenty or marks on the devices and fields.
Camelot
this is a great topic. I find that you can find nice MS62s with great luster if you don't mind some hits. Here's one:$5 gold
designset
Treasury Seals Type Set
as a PQ AU-58. Its just lovely , especially for a 62 and
is rather unusual quality in that grade. You have a good eye and did well
selecting that coin.
Camelot
This ones an ICG AU58 and I can gurantee it puts most 62s to shame. Most of the 63s I've seen as well have large..distracting bag marks.
This coin is mark free..cept for some light rub on the eagle and Liberty's hair...
">"http://www.cashcrate.com/5663377"
Formerly PCGS AU58, now PCGS MS62: (Edit- Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay nicer than my pic shows)
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
1828 Small Wide Date. Pop: 1, 1 finer
1834 Large stars, large date, medium letters (Rarity 5) Pop 1, 2 finer
Camelot
roadrunner
Look at what Laura's doing with the AU58 CBHDs... it may not be her doing this, but her client could be. If you take every AU58 you get, you crack it out, and resubmit it, you're likely to get a few that slip by. What's the price jump of an AU58 CBHD to an MS62 CBHD? Is it worth the risk... maybe, maybe not... but to make money, you gotta take some amount of risk
42/92
<< <i>Just posted this in another thread, but thought it appropriate here
Look at what Laura's doing with the AU58 CBHDs... it may not be her doing this, but her client could be. If you take every AU58 you get, you crack it out, and resubmit it, you're likely to get a few that slip by. What's the price jump of an AU58 CBHD to an MS62 CBHD? Is it worth the risk... maybe, maybe not... but to make money, you gotta take some amount of risk
Even better, at this stage they can grade themselves and cherry pick the ones that might upgrade. This will save thousands in submission costs.
However, more times then not, she is as mad, as the clever fox.
She knows the nich for profit, when she sees it. By her efforts alone,
I think we are seeing a major uplift in pricing within the TBH series
about to accelerate. Get em now people, before they are to the moon.
Camelot
<< <i>Yes, when Laura takes the lead in something, people call her mad.
However, more times then not, she is as mad, as the clever fox.
She knows the nich for profit, when she sees it. By her efforts alone,
I think we are seeing a major uplift in pricing within the TBH series
about to accelerate. Get em now people, before they are to the moon. >>
She is creating a big demand for them certainly, and she is definately good at what she does, catering to the higher end collector. However, it seems she has already had a tough time getting these in any large quantites. Hardcore collectors are gonna realize that true gem AU58s are tough to come by, especially at AU58 prices. People will sell to her; people that are changing collecting interests, or need to liquidate for something else, that type of deal. But, I think a lot of the collectors of AU58 CBHDs recognize how tough these coins are to find, and aren't going to let go of them without being offered stupid money. I think stman could attest to that, as this is specifically the coins he collectors
42/92
than I would of thought possible in this difficult series. You show her
a top of the line 58 and I suspect, that
she will offer a top of the line payment.
Camelot
<< <i>In other words, many people would value a properly graded AU-58 higher than a properly graded MS-60, but none would value a properly graded VF-35 more highly than a properly graded EF-40. That creates a rather unique market condition that doesn't apply quite so much with any other grade designation. >>
Well, I know that but I still think what Bear said can be applied to other grades as well. Example:
"2. A number of the better AU-58s have already been upgraded."
Could I not say MS63 instead of AU58 in that statement? Of course you can.
Some comments on Bear's list:
On #2: You don't see anywhere near as many of these nice AU58s as you did about 10 years ago. For the most part the coins have been upgraded.
"3. If you want the top of the line AU-58s, then you will have
to go over the Gray Sheet up to MS-60 or even 62. Might be worth it
as these PQ 58s are often nicer looking then the average 62s
I think the confusion with grading is that our numerical systems inherently implies that "the bigger number means nicer" which simply is NOT the case all of the time. There are PQ MS63 that are every bit as nice as MS65's. I see it enough and eventually these coins will upgrade because there is a demand (from both seller and buyer) that the label ultimately ends up matching the value of the coin ("MS65 money" etc etc).
Nice list, Bear.
jom
do exist in all grades, however, I felt that this particular
grade of AU-58 offered the most opportunities for a nice coin
at a reasonable price. I guess its all how one uses perspective
to view a situation.
Camelot
<< <i>Get em now people, before they are to the moon. >>
Bear, you should know they are already to the moon. Which is why some of us have dropped out of the CBH in AU-58. Anybody that has been active in this market knows the prices have gotten out of hand. Sure the dealers will say they are too cheap and raise the prices on them. Many collectors have wised up as of late. And anybody that sells to your dealer of choice her quoted buy prices is a flat out fool. In my opinion of course.
Besides, most 58's these days are 55 anyway. And on down the line. Yes, PCGS too. (sorry, not thirsty for any Kool-aid now or never
<< <i>Yes, when Laura takes the lead in something, people call her mad. >>
What lead? Because she wanted 500 pieces at low-ball offers? (in my opinion once again) fact is the interest and the prices have been rising way before this offer was made. In fact, I sold most of mine way before this. Y'all have fun out there trying to follow the "Leader." Heh
say you are wrong. I am just a little bear
holding a couple of colorful balloons.
While I really dont care for Kool-Aid, I wouldnt
mind a large glass of grape juice.
Camelot
of most average folks, but we can still collect a few nice specimens
for show and tell.
Camelot
<< <i>a lot of the collectors of AU58 CBHDs recognize how tough these coins are to find, and aren't going to let go of them without being offered stupid money. I think stman could attest to that, as this is specifically the coins he collectors >>
I understand what you mean.... but for accuracy on my part of it, I've sold some for very fair prices IMO. Actually some much less than I could have got for them. I liked where I placed them, and I believe the buyers were happy as well.
Edit, with the exception of one piece I liked where I placed them.
<< <i>Actually some much less than I could have got for them. I liked where I placed them, and I believe the buyers were happy as well. >>
And that my friends should be what it's all about. Enjoy them while ya got em, then let the next collector enjoy it for a fair price. Can't go wrong with that philosophy. Good on ya!
Personally, I recall going into a shop some years ago and having bought 2 coins I thought that what turned out to be a 58 was the nicer of the two. The other came back 65. Go figure!
I agree that many are much nicer than MS 61, 62 and some 63s.
Good thread Bear.
Choice AU58 CBH's are far and few between considering the millions minted.
Remember these 50C pieces saw more circulation in their time than any other denomination.
As far as pricing, these have FINALLY got the recognition they deserve. Some of the older
collectors of the halves have seen a HUGE price increase for these over the past few years.
They now choose to sit on the sidelines in hopes the will come down.......they might, they might not.
I personally don't think they will be getting any cheaper, for chioce AU58's
Again...........recognition. Many of the dates are easily obtainable in AU58 with patience,
BUT many of these dates are just plain impossible to find nice. And when they are,
the collectors are paying good money for them. There are PLENTY of DOGS out there,
but when ya find a nice one, you will pay a premium to have it.
Here is a good example of an AU58 coin I bought, and paid good money for it.
This coin has MOOSE luster, color, and a great strike for an 1809.
Of the measly 46 1809 PCGS AU58 (+/-) CBH's out there, I bet you wont find a nicer one.
I knew it when I saw it and paid a premium for it. Did I pay too much??
Hell no. The fact is... I have been offered over 2k for the coin from 2 different sources,
BUT where & when will I find an equal. My point is...........IF you happen to trip over an absolute choice AU58 CBH,
don't live in the past, buy it, cause it's probably worth it. If you don't, there's someone standing in line behind you.
Supply and demand is everything with anything.
So all you collectors complaining about price/moon money being paid, and how these are overpriced,
common coins that collectors are collecting with their wallets...........................FIRE AWAY
compounding of knowledge and experience, from a number of people.
It is never a matter of right or wrong, it is the search for numismatic truth,
that gives enlightenment to the members of the Forum. Well done people,
well done indeed. I believe that I have gotten more out of it then I put in.
Camelot
<< <i>Some good points being made here..............and some points, nonsense imo.
Choice AU58 CBH's are far and few between considering the millions minted.
Remember these 50C pieces saw more circulation in their time than any other denomination. >>
Yep. It may surprise people who never see half dollars used in circulation, but in the 19th century, the half dollar was essentially the $20 bill of commerce.
<< <i>and some points, nonsense imo. >>
Absolutely! IMO
Great thread Bear.
Got to listen to the Bear. Miss him greatly on the forums.
Here's one of many wonderful threads by Bear from 2006.
AU58
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/46911956
Part of me wants to cry.
Great wisdom from our good friend @Bear
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
It's been a while since Bear has posted...when did he pass? It seems like it would have been 2011 or 2012.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
It says he was last active November 4, 2011
Good memory, @TomB.....November 2011.
Past thread by @shylock for reference.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/903540/in-memory-of-bears-passing-one-day-late
Ahhh Bear. The good ol days
For me, a nice MS67 with a little wear is an AU58
and a baggy MS62 with a little wear is also an AU58
I hope the old bear is enjoying high-grade jelly donuts in the great beyond.
The Bear could make sense out of chaos. Miss him greatly.
Dave
I also miss Bear. He was a good one!
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Jelly donuts were often found in scarce supply in every town he visited.
He always was a positive force here. I remember when many thought he was being taken advantage of by dealers when he was on a buying binge near the end of his life.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Bear was great. It has been a while since he left us, but it doesn't seem like it was that long ago.
I miss the jelly donut loving old Bear.
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
I miss Bear too, he always had good outlook on just about everything.