Many of the comments in this thread are totally unfair to the seller.
Most old coins have been cleaned at some point in the past. Even the thickest original surfaces are likely to have just not been cleaned recently or were cleaned very expertly. Are we to simply destroy any coin which appears as though it might have at one time been cleaned? How about those which appear original? Should we destroy those too just to be on the safe side. What about disagreements?
Look at the pictures of these coins. While you can't tell much from a picture, most look fine or at least presentable. It is patently unfair to offer any criticism of the seller even if he hadn't provided a refund. Those who think dealers are to be held to this high a stan- dard should try to resell their coins to them after several months and see if they always get offered 75%.
This isn't to say I blame wrighty either. He simply didn't understand the grading and the situation and is learning. He didn't attempt to get the attacks against one of the best dealers in the hobby.
Some people seem intent on driving everyone into moderns. This may be considered a very draconian solution by many hobbyists.
He simply didn't understand the grading and the situation and is learning.
Here's the situation for me and exactly why I won't buy an MS coin that is not in a PCGS slab. (Pause to have a sip of Kool-Aid).
I know for a fact that I do not have an eye for MS coins and do not have an eye for whether a coin has been cleaned or not (except for the brillo jobs). What am I to do? Many posters have written to purchase coins from a non-wannabe coin dealer because they won't steer you wrong, or at least will be honest and up-front. But based on what you have written above, is it the buyers fault that he didn't "understand the grading and the situation?" How do I compete with an expert? I'm not supposed to. I go to the expert BECAUSE I don't know how to grade or aware of how to detect doctored coins. But now people are saying it is still buyer beware whether you go to an expert, wannabe or non-wannabe dealer!!!
My solution: I buy my MS coins encased in PCGS plastic. Not a perfect solution but it sure beats having to start a thread with: I bought these raw MS coins ...
In a forum such as this one, it is IMPORTANT what you say and HOW YOU SAY IT. Unfortunately, Rick says what he says in a way that is coming across to me as confrontational rather than just recognizing the total scope of THIS event and making wrighty whole for the $400. Rick's reputation is being publically discussed and it is important for Rick to recognize the issue is no longer about a deal that went down six months ago. It is about how a prominent dealer handles it publically with a collector who is perceived to be not very knowledgeable about grading. Rick, make this deal "right" in the public's eye. Your reputation is worth more than the $400. JMHO. Steve
<< <i>Anyone ever get there $60.00 book from JT Stanton,Over 2yrs and still haven't received mine >>
dam, everytime i forget about being hosed on this, it pops up. and I do not expect to ever see the book, even though all the excuses have been better than a really bad abc "after school special"
<< <i>In a forum such as this one, it is IMPORTANT what you say and HOW YOU SAY IT. Unfortunately, Rick says what he says in a way that is coming across to me as confrontational rather than just recognizing the total scope of THIS event and making wrighty whole for the $400. Rick's reputation is being publically discussed and it is important for Rick to recognize the issue is no longer about a deal that went down six months ago. It is about how a prominent dealer handles it publically with a collector who is perceived to be not very knowledgeable about grading. Rick, make this deal "right" in the public's eye. Your reputation is worth more than the $400. JMHO. Steve >>
Steve..That is precisly what I was thinking.Someone well known and bickering over a few dollars in public?? When will it ever end. A
This thread is the Epitome of why a lot of dealers and collectors stay away from here. Lynce mobs with no facts. It is amazing how much things change, they stay the same. Shame on all the idiots who live for these confrontations, and you are many.
<< <i>In a forum such as this one, it is IMPORTANT what you say and HOW YOU SAY IT. Unfortunately, Rick says what he says in a way that is coming across to me as confrontational rather than just recognizing the total scope of THIS event and making wrighty whole for the $400. Rick's reputation is being publically discussed and it is important for Rick to recognize the issue is no longer about a deal that went down six months ago. It is about how a prominent dealer handles it publically with a collector who is perceived to be not very knowledgeable about grading. Rick, make this deal "right" in the public's eye. Your reputation is worth more than the $400. JMHO. Steve >>
Well said. I will agree that it is no longer about the situation with Wrighty but will add that it is also about a high profile dealer thinking it is OK to list obviously cleaned coins (obvious to non-beginners) without mentioning that fact and making NO apologies about it when confronted with the facts. He still has not said it is wrong to market cleaned coins as not cleaned. I have lost a tremendous amount of respect for him as he has come across very arrogant.
<< <i>This thread is the Epitome of why a lot of dealers and collectors stay away from here. Lynce mobs with no facts. It is amazing how much things change, they stay the same. Shame on all the idiots who live for these confrontations, and you are many. >>
We're just trying to make this a better hobby for future generations. As for having "no facts" on this, most of what we're responding to came directly out of Rick's mouth. Those are facts. We now know he can sell cleaned coins and has no qualms about passing them off as uncleaned. Period.
Well, I'm gonna buck the trend and go against the grain. Mr Snow might be an expert, but he's not omniscient. perhaps he was wrong, perhaps he was fooled. but for a buyer to ask for a "refund" after the raw coins he bought came back BB'd months after the deal, thats just not right. seems to me that pcgs could also be wrong (perish the thought). I mean if he bought the coins, and asked for a refund say within 30 days or so then the 75% offer is pretty lame. But if he had the coins for months and only asked for a refund after the grades came back, I don't think he's entitled to be made whole.
Frankly i don't get why so many are jumping on the seller.
<< <i>We're just trying to make this a better hobby for future generations. As for having "no facts" on this, most of what we're responding to came directly out of Rick's mouth. Those are facts. We now know he can sell cleaned coins and has no qualms about passing them off as uncleaned. Period. >>
I think that's reading *slightly* too much into it.
I think it's fair to say that he might be passing off lightly cleaned coins as *market acceptable* for the grade given, much as old silver can still be "market acceptable" even if it's dipped (or maybe even very lightly cleaned). That doesn't HAVE to mean uncleaned, though for many collectors, no cleaning is ever "market acceptable" for a grade and always needs to be disclosed. I think a cleaning, if suspected, should always be disclosed but not doing so is not exactly the same thing as selling it "uncleaned."
Maybe I'm being a bit too pedantic and relying on semantics, but often, that's where disputes like these arise.
There sure seem to be a lot of people around here who think that PCGS is the final word on the gradeability of a coin. Anybody who submits regularly knows otherwise.
My reading on this the PCGS message board, is that whether you like a coin or not, if PCGS (that is God) will not put a coin in one of it's holders it's a worthless POS. Is that correct? And if so then we should continue to tar and feather all heretics who try to sell such coins and in truth they(the bodybagged coins) should be melted down. (That way our PCGS slabs will be oh,so much more valuable.) Yesssssss as Golum says.
"Truth is a torch but a tremendous one. That is why we hurry past it, shielding our eyes, indeed, for fear of getting burned." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
"I mean if he bought the coins, and asked for a refund say within 30 days or so then the 75% offer is pretty lame. But if he had the coins for months and only asked for a refund after the grades came back, I don't think he's entitled to be made whole."
Without commenting on what actually happened in this thread but only the quoted statement above, I disagree because it's no fault of the buyers that PCGS took months instead of days. Any seller that sells you a coin that doesn't disclose to you that it has been cleaned (assuming they knew it was - & in Rick's case we all must assume he knew or should have known it was) should stand behind it pretty much unconditionally forever.
On the other hand, if the buyer HAD been informed that the coins had been cleaned, (like L&C has advised me on certain occasions in regards to ceretain coins - that I was more than happy to have net graded by ANACS anyway), then in my opinion, NO refund would be due outside the standard 7 days (or whatever) return policy & the buyer should only be allowed to resort to using Rick's "at least 100% towards trade-ins forever" policy - i.e. if the facts were fully disclosed to the buyer, by the time he got the coins back from PCGS he should've not been entitled to any refund at all - just a 100% (minimum) "trade-in credit" as Rick said was his policy anyway.
<< <i>There sure seem to be a lot of people around here who think that PCGS is the final word on the gradeability of a coin. Anybody who submits regularly knows otherwise.
Russ, NCNE >>
Yes, but 0 for 5 on Indian Cents which are supposed to be MS-64 or MS-63 seems to be more than PCGS being "harsh".
<< There sure seem to be a lot of people around here who think that PCGS is the final word on the gradeability of a coin. Anybody who submits regularly knows otherwise.
Russ, NCNE >>
Yes, but 0 for 5 on Indian Cents which are supposed to be MS-64 or MS-63 seems to be more than PCGS being "harsh".
It is possible that when the grader sees one obviously cleaned coin in the submission with four other borderline coins, the borderline coins are guilty by association, and the whole submission gets bagged. Anyone with professional grading experience or similar submission experience want to chime in?
<<It is possible that when the grader sees one obviously cleaned coin in the submission with four other borderline coins, the borderline coins are guilty by association, and the whole submission gets bagged. Anyone with professional grading experience or similar submission experience want to chime in? >>
<< <i>It is possible that when the grader sees one obviously cleaned coin in the submission with four other borderline coins, the borderline coins are guilty by association, and the whole submission gets bagged. Anyone with professional grading experience or similar submission experience want to chime in? >>
I wouldn't be surprised at this in the least. Professional graders, as good as they are, are still human and are subject to human nature.
This is especially true now, when the major TPGs are so tight that you can put a lump of coal up their butts and have a diamond in a few weeks.
<< <i>It is possible that when the grader sees one obviously cleaned coin in the submission with four other borderline coins, the borderline coins are guilty by association, and the whole submission gets bagged. Anyone with professional grading experience or similar submission experience want to chime in? >>
It has happened to me twice on groups of early Lincolns that were pulled from an album. At some point every one were slabbed by PCGS or NGC. Were the coins that are the topic of this thread cleaned or bb'd for questionable toning? It's all no more than a bunch of opinions. Right or wrong, we all have one, including Rick.
I'm starting to see why so many great dealers don't wish to post here. Why should they mess with it?
So, was it ever clear if the coins were explicitly mentioned as cleaned when sold, or something to that effect? I think I'm glad that I don't collect copper......
My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
I think its time to let this thread go. No one knows for sure what was said or not said six months ago....do you? This matter has been put to rest by both buyer and seller, right or wrong it is really between them. As for doing business for yourself, in the words of Ben Franklin " mind your own business"
This thread is not about PCGS determining what is good.
If you focus on the comments by Eagle Eye, he clearly incriminates himself as having misrepresented the coins. He admits knowing they were cleaned, and he admits not sharing that precise fact when selling the coins.
Eagle Eye, if you want to do business around here, I suggest you simply agree that in the future a cleaned coin will be advertised as such, and spare us all the bs you thinks serves as a justification for your actions.
For those of you who want to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, read his posts -- he was clearly selective about relevant information pertaining to the coin's condition that he chose not to share because the information hurt the coin's value.
<< <i>There sure seem to be a lot of people around here who think that PCGS is the final word on the gradeability of a coin. Anybody who submits regularly knows otherwise.
Russ, NCNE >>
That's the most intelligent statement you ever made in your (oops, I mean there) forums.
This thread has nothing to do with PCGS having the "final" say.
Eagle Eye Rick admits he knew the coins were cleaned, and admits his descriptions disclosed less than what he knew. If he wants to sell a cleaned coin and not get the posse after him, the preventive medicine is simple: "For sale, one coin, cleaned."
PCGS has nothing to do with this thread. PCGS did say they were cleaned, but hell, Rick admitted, in this forum after the sale, that they were cleaned, so PCGS was correct.
Rick will often sell ungraded coins with a market/net grade, just as ANACS does.
And I have no doubt Rick knows more about IH cent grading than PCGS.
That doesn't always mean he sells the most accurately graded coins. It often means he has squeezed the highest grade out of every coin he sells. He's a dealer. And dealers have to move stock. It's what pays the bills.
It's important to differentiate historian/attributor from dealer when talking about Rick Snow. As an attributor Rick is in a class by himself when it comes to IH cents and Flying Eagles. As a dealer Rick is one of the best sources of these coins. But like any dealer, he gets the most he can from his inventory.
Buying coins is fun, selling coins is a business. Always keep that in mind no matter how much fun you're having. Eventually the business end of this hobby will bite you in the ass. Read between the lines.
It is important for anyone who is seriously collecting Flying Eagle and Indian Head cents to be aware of the pitfalls that exist when purchasing raw (and even top grading service graded) coins. If anything about the coin doesn't look right, no matter whom you buy the coin from, you should get a second and perhaps a third opinion. It takes time to become confident in your ability to numerically grade, and more time to feel comfortable about being able to detect cleaning, AT, corrosion, a bent coin, planchet flaws, etc. But, don ‘t become overconfident, even the best are fooled from time to time – plenty of Flyers/IHCs in “good” plastic prove this.
The ability to understand the red, red-brown and brown designations are crucial if the collector is to avoid potentially disastrous financial mistakes. In my opinion, PCGS and NGC have different standards for red and red-brown and the collector should try and become aware of these sometimes-subtle differences.
ALWAYS ask the dealer their opinion of color and cleaning, even if the coin is in good plastic. Rick Snow himself says on page 11 of his Grading Guide in the discussion about MS62/63 IHCs, see the Eagle Eye website: "Any cleaned coins should be mentioned as such."
Expect reputable dealers to give their opinion on cleaning, AT, etc, if asked. Their return policy should also be made clear. Collectors should ask the dealer if they think the coin will slab and if the dealer will take the coin back if it doesn't, and in what time period.
Don't be awed by any dealer's reputation. The dealers are often very busy and unless asked it may not occur to them that they haven't disclosed something, even if disclosure is their stated policy.
Collecting Flyers and IHCs can be great fun and a lifelong educational experience, but it can also be an unpleasant economic and relationship experience. Don't be afraid to ask, get the terms up front, don’t be awed by reputation, and study, study and study some more.
<< <i>Rick Snow himself says on page 11 of his Grading Guide in the discussion about MS62/63 IHCs, see the Eagle Eye website: "Any cleaned coins should be mentioned as such." >>
<< <i>Rick Snow himself says on page 11 of his Grading Guide in the discussion about MS62/63 IHCs, see the Eagle Eye website: "Any cleaned coins should be mentioned as such." >>
Comments
Most old coins have been cleaned at some point in the past. Even the thickest original
surfaces are likely to have just not been cleaned recently or were cleaned very expertly.
Are we to simply destroy any coin which appears as though it might have at one time
been cleaned? How about those which appear original? Should we destroy those too
just to be on the safe side. What about disagreements?
Look at the pictures of these coins. While you can't tell much from a picture, most look
fine or at least presentable. It is patently unfair to offer any criticism of the seller even
if he hadn't provided a refund. Those who think dealers are to be held to this high a stan-
dard should try to resell their coins to them after several months and see if they always
get offered 75%.
This isn't to say I blame wrighty either. He simply didn't understand the grading and the
situation and is learning. He didn't attempt to get the attacks against one of the best
dealers in the hobby.
Some people seem intent on driving everyone into moderns. This may be considered a
very draconian solution by many hobbyists.
Here's the situation for me and exactly why I won't buy an MS coin that is not in a PCGS slab. (Pause to have a sip of Kool-Aid).
I know for a fact that I do not have an eye for MS coins and do not have an eye for whether a coin has been cleaned or not (except for the brillo jobs). What am I to do? Many posters have written to purchase coins from a non-wannabe coin dealer because they won't steer you wrong, or at least will be honest and up-front. But based on what you have written above, is it the buyers fault that he didn't "understand the grading and the situation?" How do I compete with an expert? I'm not supposed to. I go to the expert BECAUSE I don't know how to grade or aware of how to detect doctored coins. But now people are saying it is still buyer beware whether you go to an expert, wannabe or non-wannabe dealer!!!
My solution: I buy my MS coins encased in PCGS plastic. Not a perfect solution but it sure beats having to start a thread with: I bought these raw MS coins ...
Joe.
<< <i>Some people seem intent on driving everyone into moderns. This may be considered a very draconian solution by many hobbyists. >>
CLADKING: What about ultramoderns??????????
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i>Anyone ever get there $60.00 book from JT Stanton,Over 2yrs and still
haven't received mine
dam, everytime i forget about being hosed on this, it pops up. and I do not expect to ever see the book, even though all the excuses have been better than a really bad abc "after school special"
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>In a forum such as this one, it is IMPORTANT what you say and HOW YOU SAY IT. Unfortunately, Rick says what he says in a way that is coming across to me as confrontational rather than just recognizing the total scope of THIS event and making wrighty whole for the $400. Rick's reputation is being publically discussed and it is important for Rick to recognize the issue is no longer about a deal that went down six months ago. It is about how a prominent dealer handles it publically with a collector who is perceived to be not very knowledgeable about grading. Rick, make this deal "right" in the public's eye. Your reputation is worth more than the $400. JMHO. Steve
Steve..That is precisly what I was thinking.Someone well known and bickering over a few dollars in public??
When will it ever end.
A
LMAO.
<< <i>Bill
LMAO.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
Wow, you mean there is someone other than me that admits to this?
<< <i>In a forum such as this one, it is IMPORTANT what you say and HOW YOU SAY IT. Unfortunately, Rick says what he says in a way that is coming across to me as confrontational rather than just recognizing the total scope of THIS event and making wrighty whole for the $400. Rick's reputation is being publically discussed and it is important for Rick to recognize the issue is no longer about a deal that went down six months ago. It is about how a prominent dealer handles it publically with a collector who is perceived to be not very knowledgeable about grading. Rick, make this deal "right" in the public's eye. Your reputation is worth more than the $400. JMHO. Steve
Well said. I will agree that it is no longer about the situation with Wrighty but will add that it is also about a high profile dealer thinking it is OK to list obviously cleaned coins (obvious to non-beginners) without mentioning that fact and making NO apologies about it when confronted with the facts. He still has not said it is wrong to market cleaned coins as not cleaned. I have lost a tremendous amount of respect for him as he has come across very arrogant.
<< <i>This thread is the Epitome of why a lot of dealers and collectors stay away from here. Lynce mobs with no facts. It is amazing how much things change, they stay the same. Shame on all the idiots who live for these confrontations, and you are many. >>
We're just trying to make this a better hobby for future generations. As for having "no facts" on this, most of what we're responding to came directly out of Rick's mouth. Those are facts. We now know he can sell cleaned coins and has no qualms about passing them off as uncleaned. Period.
Frankly i don't get why so many are jumping on the seller.
<< <i>
<< <i>Some people seem intent on driving everyone into moderns. This may be considered a very draconian solution by many hobbyists. >>
CLADKING: What about ultramoderns??????????
Now that would be like throwing the wife and kids out after the baby and the bathwater.
<< <i>We're just trying to make this a better hobby for future generations. As for having "no facts" on this, most of what we're responding to came directly out of Rick's mouth. Those are facts. We now know he can sell cleaned coins and has no qualms about passing them off as uncleaned. Period. >>
I think that's reading *slightly* too much into it.
I think it's fair to say that he might be passing off lightly cleaned coins as *market acceptable* for the grade given, much as old silver can still be "market acceptable" even if it's dipped (or maybe even very lightly cleaned). That doesn't HAVE to mean uncleaned, though for many collectors, no cleaning is ever "market acceptable" for a grade and always needs to be disclosed. I think a cleaning, if suspected, should always be disclosed but not doing so is not exactly the same thing as selling it "uncleaned."
Maybe I'm being a bit too pedantic and relying on semantics, but often, that's where disputes like these arise.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>tHE EAGLE EYE NEEDS GLASSES imo! >>
As did you when you bought an obviously used piece of currency and complained because you didn't know "crisp" didn't have to mean "uncirculated."
Without commenting on what actually happened in this thread but only the quoted statement above, I disagree because it's no fault of the buyers that PCGS took months instead of days. Any seller that sells you a coin that doesn't disclose to you that it has been cleaned (assuming they knew it was - & in Rick's case we all must assume he knew or should have known it was) should stand behind it pretty much unconditionally forever.
On the other hand, if the buyer HAD been informed that the coins had been cleaned, (like L&C has advised me on certain occasions in regards to ceretain coins - that I was more than happy to have net graded by ANACS anyway), then in my opinion, NO refund would be due outside the standard 7 days (or whatever) return policy & the buyer should only be allowed to resort to using Rick's "at least 100% towards trade-ins forever" policy - i.e. if the facts were fully disclosed to the buyer, by the time he got the coins back from PCGS he should've not been entitled to any refund at all - just a 100% (minimum) "trade-in credit" as Rick said was his policy anyway.
<< <i>There sure seem to be a lot of people around here who think that PCGS is the final word on the gradeability of a coin. Anybody who submits regularly knows otherwise.
Russ, NCNE >>
Yes, but 0 for 5 on Indian Cents which are supposed to be MS-64 or MS-63 seems to be more than PCGS being "harsh".
Russ, NCNE >>
Yes, but 0 for 5 on Indian Cents which are supposed to be MS-64 or MS-63 seems to be more than PCGS being "harsh".
It is possible that when the grader sees one obviously cleaned coin in the submission with four other borderline coins, the borderline coins are guilty by association, and the whole submission gets bagged. Anyone with professional grading experience or similar submission experience want to chime in?
Excelent question RYK!
Chris
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
<< <i>It is possible that when the grader sees one obviously cleaned coin in the submission with four other borderline coins, the borderline coins are guilty by association, and the whole submission gets bagged. Anyone with professional grading experience or similar submission experience want to chime in? >>
I wouldn't be surprised at this in the least. Professional graders, as good as they are, are still human and are subject to human nature.
This is especially true now, when the major TPGs are so tight that you can put a lump of coal up their butts and have a diamond in a few weeks.
<< <i>It is possible that when the grader sees one obviously cleaned coin in the submission with four other borderline coins, the borderline coins are guilty by association, and the whole submission gets bagged. Anyone with professional grading experience or similar submission experience want to chime in?
>>
It has happened to me twice on groups of early Lincolns that were pulled from an album.
At some point every one were slabbed by PCGS or NGC.
Were the coins that are the topic of this thread cleaned or bb'd for questionable toning?
It's all no more than a bunch of opinions. Right or wrong, we all have one, including Rick.
I'm starting to see why so many great dealers don't wish to post here. Why should they mess with it?
because they can be a hero to us collectors.
I think I'm glad that I don't collect copper......
Fin
Tbig
If you focus on the comments by Eagle Eye, he clearly incriminates himself as having misrepresented the coins. He admits knowing they were cleaned, and he admits not sharing that precise fact when selling the coins.
Eagle Eye, if you want to do business around here, I suggest you simply agree that in the future a cleaned coin will be advertised as such, and spare us all the bs you thinks serves as a justification for your actions.
I predict that this one will go over 200.
Good prediction DickyBetz, and I find it ironic that Wrighty used my icon.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>when the major TPGs are so tight that you can put a lump of coal up their butts and have a diamond in a few weeks. >>
Is that calendar weeks or business weeks?
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>when the major TPGs are so tight that you can put a lump of coal up their butts and have a diamond in a few weeks. >>
Is that calendar weeks or business weeks? >>
Hell, NATURE can produce a diamond in a few TPG *business* weeks.
<< <i>There sure seem to be a lot of people around here who think that PCGS is the final word on the gradeability of a coin. Anybody who submits regularly knows otherwise.
Russ, NCNE >>
That's the most intelligent statement you ever made in your (oops, I mean there) forums.
Is that calendar weeks or business weeks?
Russ, NCNE
Now I don't care who you are that was funny right there!
Eagle Eye Rick admits he knew the coins were cleaned, and admits his descriptions disclosed less than what he knew. If he wants to sell a cleaned coin and not get the posse after him, the preventive medicine is simple: "For sale, one coin, cleaned."
PCGS has nothing to do with this thread. PCGS did say they were cleaned, but hell, Rick admitted, in this forum after the sale, that they were cleaned, so PCGS was correct.
Terrible business isn't it ?
did you sense a bit of sarcasm ?
Two Wrongies don't make A Wrighty
And I have no doubt Rick knows more about IH cent grading than PCGS.
That doesn't always mean he sells the most accurately graded coins. It often means
he has squeezed the highest grade out of every coin he sells. He's a dealer. And dealers
have to move stock. It's what pays the bills.
It's important to differentiate historian/attributor from dealer when talking about Rick Snow.
As an attributor Rick is in a class by himself when it comes to IH cents and Flying Eagles.
As a dealer Rick is one of the best sources of these coins. But like any dealer, he gets
the most he can from his inventory.
Buying coins is fun, selling coins is a business. Always keep that in mind no matter how
much fun you're having. Eventually the business end of this hobby will bite you in the
ass. Read between the lines.
Read enough to know -
Never buy from Rick.
75% ?
Nice RIP you thief.
hi, i'm tom.
i do not doctor coins like some who post in here.
The ability to understand the red, red-brown and brown designations are crucial if the collector is to avoid potentially disastrous financial mistakes. In my opinion, PCGS and NGC have different standards for red and red-brown and the collector should try and become aware of these sometimes-subtle differences.
ALWAYS ask the dealer their opinion of color and cleaning, even if the coin is in good plastic. Rick Snow himself says on page 11 of his Grading Guide in the discussion about MS62/63 IHCs, see the Eagle Eye website: "Any cleaned coins should be mentioned as such."
Expect reputable dealers to give their opinion on cleaning, AT, etc, if asked. Their return policy should also be made clear. Collectors should ask the dealer if they think the coin will slab and if the dealer will take the coin back if it doesn't, and in what time period.
Don't be awed by any dealer's reputation. The dealers are often very busy and unless asked it may not occur to them that they haven't disclosed something, even if disclosure is their stated policy.
Collecting Flyers and IHCs can be great fun and a lifelong educational experience, but it can also be an unpleasant economic and relationship experience. Don't be afraid to ask, get the terms up front, don’t be awed by reputation, and study, study and study some more.
<< <i>Rick Snow himself says on page 11 of his Grading Guide in the discussion about MS62/63 IHCs, see the Eagle Eye website: "Any cleaned coins should be mentioned as such." >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Rick Snow himself says on page 11 of his Grading Guide in the discussion about MS62/63 IHCs, see the Eagle Eye website: "Any cleaned coins should be mentioned as such." >>
Well, PCGS did.
PCGS forum rule #9: Don't post to any thread with over 100 posts.
Now that I have violated that rule.....
Totally original MS IHC's are as rare as hen's teeth. You'd better be an expert if you want to treasure hunt raw ones.
<< <i>You'd better be an expert if you want to treasure hunt raw ones. >>
what if you buy them from an expert?
<< <i>
<< <i>You'd better be an expert if you want to treasure hunt raw ones. >>
what if you buy them from an expert? >>
Assume he has already treasure hunted them!