<< <i>It's not the coin, it's the behavior. If the OP was fooling around with his friend's wife behind the friend's back, would it be okay because, after all, he would "just be dating a girl"? >>
Of course not. I think the fact that we're comparing to outbidding a friend on a coin to screwing around with his wife means we've lost all sense of proportion. How are the two things even remotely comparable?? How many deep, meaningful, emotional relationships have you formed with coins lately?? There's a big difference between outbidding on a coin (which is what we're talking about here) and doing the horizontal lambada with your friend's wife.
It scares me a little that people can make such comparisons. This was strictly a financial deal, and the person at the other end suffered no real harm, because they could always just purchase the coin from the friend, if it came to that.
For a good sense of proportion:
Take any coin in your collection. Compare the mintage of that coin (or even the number of existing coins in that grade) and compare it to the number of true friends you have.
That's what makes what this "friend" did so ridiculous.
If you haven't noticed, I'm single and miserable and I've got four albums of bitching about it that I would offer as proof.
bhartman35 I think what your missing is it wasn't a matter of outbidding a friend it was asking the seller to ignore the rules throw out the bids and sell to him. Sure it happens. But many of us would prefer to think we are playing on a level playing field and expect more of those we know. I say let the girls keep talking and eventually it will all smooth out.
this is where the confusion is. the friend wasnt 'outbid' in the circumstance of the auction at hand. He went directly to the seller, offered money if he removed the coin from auction and sold to him, ALL knowing his friend was the high bidder at that point. Nobody can say for sure, but my guess would be if he had simply bid on the coin within the standards it was being offered for auction this situation would not exist.
A couple of people have hit this, I think, while many others are still stuck on the coin itself.
I think that Mozeppa understands the problem, and Freak and RYK hit it as well.
To everyone who says "it's a coin for god's sake".....well, you are quite materialistic and probably don't understand trust or friendship, or, you are too stuck on the materialism. If I had a friend who went behind my back for something (coin, promotion, etc), then what kind of friend would they be? Healthy competition is just that....but going behind my back....well, I would hope a FRIEND wouldn't do that.
For many people in life, principles matter.
At review time, where I work, you can tell the backstabbers from true co-worker friends. There is a curve for compensation and some people end up at the bottom and some at the top (more in the middle). It should be about what a person has accomplished. But, it isn't. A lot of times, it is politics. So, some people do anything they can to cut others down. That's uncool. I find out anyone is cutting me down behind my back and I will be after them. However, healthy competition is what has us all doing the best we can to get the higher review scores/comp.
For this ebay auction, helathy competition would have been just that....bid vs bid. Then, the person could have said something or said "take it if you want it that bad". However, when seeing the bid, then going behind the back, and the other person finding out....well, one wonders what else they would do given the chance.
Mike....I hope it all works out for you.....I lost a best friend for ~6 years before....never really knew why.....I think it was all misperceptions. But, we did work it out just by giving it time and then contacting each other.
Wish you the best! And, for those of you that think that the behaviour was ok (not given the Russ-vs-Marty aka Spy-vs-Spy scenario where both parties are well aware of no holds barred), then I am scared of you.......
Treat others as you'd like to be treated. If I were Mo, I would not have done what he did.
To err is human. To forgive is divine. If I were John, I'd forgive Mo (eventually), since he seems sincere enough in his apology. Well, it takes guts to get up here in a public forum and apologize (He didn't have to, nobody forced him to, but he did).
<< <i>yeah but he never expected that out of me...neither did i ...
what hurts is... he said he wasn't surprized by my actions...but i was....when it was too late.
12 step program? ...you are so off base with that ...i have maybe one drink a month... if that. >>
I don't buy none of this crap!
So, your "friend" said he wasn't surprised by your actions? Well, your friend is either stupid for hanging around you or he's a liar. That's the only two choices he has here.
<< <i>bhartman35 I think what your missing is it wasn't a matter of outbidding a friend it was asking the seller to ignore the rules throw out the bids and sell to him. Sure it happens. But many of us would prefer to think we are playing on a level playing field and expect more of those we know. I say let the girls keep talking and eventually it will all smooth out. >>
joeyuk:
I don't know about you, but I've had people offer to sell me outright the things they were auctioning off many times. It happens a lot. And the fact is, if Mike's friend had made a better offer, he could have had the coin. He could have it now, if he'd offer Mike for it. What Mike did is no more "stabbing someone in the back" than if he'd sniped it from him in the auction. In fact, sniping it would be worse, since the friend would be unable to make a counterbid. And I don't hear many people complaining about sniping -- for good reason. And while it might not have been Mike's intention for his friend to know about the inside deal, the friend had ample opportunity to make a counteroffer, because he was told.
And I have an issue thinking that talking about the coin is somehow materialistic. What the friend did in this case was focus on the coin. The facts seem to be, Mike made an outside offer, the seller relayed the offer to Mike's friend, and the friend declined to make a counteroffer. And the worst-case scenario now is his friend has to buy the coin from Mike, rather than the person he was originally going to get it from.
I just see it as much ado about nothing. This was about as serious an infraction as cheating in a game of chess. How many people would end a friendship because of that?
If you haven't noticed, I'm single and miserable and I've got four albums of bitching about it that I would offer as proof.
This is what happens when some of y'all take this stuff so seriously. Yes, I've been shanked by my "friend" collectors, and dealers on coins. I've been told by a few I get first shot if they ever sell. I've kept my word on stuff like this but they didn't. Was I upset? Nope, just disappointed and they showed me where they are coming from. Some of these "set" builders are the same way. Much too serious and they'll shank you on a coin and then lie about it. No matter to me though as I beg no-one to take my money. Matter fact, after it's said and done I'm kinda glad when I don't get a coin and my "friends" have shanked me on it. I save a lot more cash this way. Same thing when the dealers are too busy to sell me a coin. I thank them, as again, they saved me money and I know who not to deal with.
Sorry if I got off subject a bit, sounds to me both of you are taking this much too serious. You, for trying to shank him and making this thread saying you're sorry (or sorry you got caught Haha) and your "friend" for being mad at you for trying to back-door him. Perhaps he's mad because he didn't do it first?
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
<< <i>This is what happens when some of y'all take this stuff so seriously. Yes, I've been shanked by my "friend" collectors, and dealers on coins. I've been told by a few I get first shot if they ever sell. I've kept my word on stuff like this but they didn't. Was I upset? Nope, just disappointed and they showed me where they are coming from. Some of these "set" builders are the same way. Much too serious and they'll shank you on a coin and then lie about it. No matter to me though as I beg no-one to take my money. Matter fact, after it's said and done I'm kinda glad when I don't get a coin and my "friends" have shanked me on it. I save a lot more cash this way. Same thing when the dealers are too busy to sell me a coin. I thank them, as again, they saved me money and I know who not to deal with.
Sorry if I got off subject a bit, sounds to me both of you are taking this much too serious. You, for trying to shank him and making this thread saying you're sorry (or sorry you got caught Haha) and your "friend" for being mad at you for trying to back-door him. Perhaps he's mad because he didn't do it first? >>
shudddddup before I shank you!
Be Bop A Lula!! "Senorita HepKitty" "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
I agree with much of what's been said here. You messed up. You fessed up. You learned from it. If your buddy can't see the whole picture from begining to end, then he has a lot more to learn than you did. Your slate is cleared. Now let it go.
That being said, your public scourging here should suffice... The promise of a cold beer and a laugh together should be enough to move on. A famous 12 step saying is that there are no big deals - not that you need a 12 step program, mind you
My point wasn't that it's okay to cheat at chess. Sheesh!
My only point is that this is an incredibly minor, niggling thing to end a friendship over, and the friend sounds like he's being petty. If this is the worst thing Mike ever does in his life, I think it's safe to assume he'll be canonized (albeit probably 100 years from now .)
Having said that, he's fessed up, and now it's out of his hands.
If you haven't noticed, I'm single and miserable and I've got four albums of bitching about it that I would offer as proof.
A dealer friend has outbid me on a coin I really like at the current ANR auction. It has nothing to do with our personal relationship. He knew I was interested in the coin, and told me that the person he is representing wants the coin and was willing to pay far more for it than I was.
As long as you're not being dishonest -- which from your OP, you're clearly not -- I don't see a problem with this, nor do I take this sort of thing personally.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
I imagine many will recognize others on the other side.(well, when we get there) Lucy, that had to be the most wonderful thing about forgiveness I think I ever read.
This thread has had me feeling gut wrenching feelings. From sadness, to laughter. I sure hope John is reading this so he knows how many really do care. He might not be, but Mike... you got a greater gift in this thread than you ever could have if John accepted your apology.
Trust and honor go hand in hand. If you lost a friend, you gained wisdom. If your friend comes back, you've gained a brother.
<< <i>There are some really beautiful people here.
I imagine many will recognize others on the other side.(well, when we get there) Lucy, that had to be the most wonderful thing about forgiveness I think I ever read.
This thread has had me feeling gut wrenching feelings. From sadness, to laughter. I sure hope John is reading this so he knows how many really do care. He might not be, but Mike... you got a greater gift in this thread than you ever could have if John accepted your apology.
Trust and honor go hand in hand. If you lost a friend, you gained wisdom. If your friend comes back, you've gained a brother. >>
Well you see.... I betrayed my friend... very badly..... I mocked Him... I spit on Him... I lied to Him.... I cast Him aside for my own sellfish means and desires.... Yet He still had the love to forgive me, because I asked Him for forgiveness...... When I realized how wrong I had been, how terrible of a person I was...
But my friend was so loving, that He forgave me at any cost, which was His precious life on a Roman Cross some 2000 years ago...
Be Bop A Lula!! "Senorita HepKitty" "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
I am shocked that so many people who answered this thread put acquiring coins above friendship and trust. Then again, from what I have seen in the coin biz, perhaps I should not be surprised.
I agree with that.....
My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
Mike, you play golf together? Pm me his addy and I'll send him a golf trinket or two on your behalf, along with a nice note, that (trust me) will have the desired effect of salving the wounds. A week from today, all will be better than ever.
First of all, friendship has nothing to do with forgiveness and everything to do with trust. If I were your friend, I would have forgiven you literally hours after the auction. However, I would never be able to trust you again. Friendship isn't possible in this situation. I am surprised so few people are getting this.
Second, I am disappointed that so many people are so sanguine about the eBay rules violations. This suggests that many collectors have extremely elastic ideas as to what ethics are. When we use eBay, we agree to comply with a set of rules. No one is forced to come and use the platform. There's no "under duress" aspect to it. When you do that, you agree to play by the rules, whether you like them or not. I don't understand what's so unclear about that.
"The greatest productive force is human selfishness." Robert A. Heinlein
You have about as much honesty & integrity as ANYONE I've EVER come accross - not just in the "coin world". You did ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong & I can almost guess who the seller & the "friend" were.
You are a man of the utmost integrity & anyone would be lucky to count you among their friends. Screw that idiot that doesn't see it that way. Is it any wonder how he reacted after the way he went after me last year? Didn't you realize then by his words contrasted with your many dealings with me that there's a screw loose upstairs somewhere over there. Hey, maybe the loose scew is why he never wins any races - LOL.
<< <i>First of all, friendship has nothing to do with forgiveness and everything to do with trust. >>
I disagree. Forgiveness is much more important than you're saying here. Human beings are fallible. We screw up, we argue, and we occasionally hurt each other badly. A friendship based on the proposition that your friend is never going to do you harm would be tenuous, at best. As to forgiving someone quickly: Saying the words, "I forgive you", and actually forgiving someone are two entirely different things. Forgiving someone means not holding past transgressions against them. If you do still hold it against them, then the word you're looking for is "grudge", not "forgiveness".
Mike: I hope your friend eventually does come around. I don't think a person can show much more contrition than you've shown here today. I, for one, am pulling for ya.
If you haven't noticed, I'm single and miserable and I've got four albums of bitching about it that I would offer as proof.
This thread says lots about avarice , trust, ethics and regret. It doesn't matter if others have different standards for behavior. You select your friends and confidents based on your threshold for behavior. Reputation and integrity weigh more on my scale than apparently on some other's. Never the less, no one always lives up to what they believe should be their standard. I respect people who regret their actions and repent. No more self flagellation, meet your own self determined thresholds and you will retain your own self-esteem.
<< <i>That's right, Russ does that to me all the time, and we're still friends... You Bat Rastard!!! >>
Now that I think about it, Marty is an ungrateful butthead. Just the other day I PMed him a link to an Accented Hair set on eBay and gave him a free shot at it.
Comments
<< <i>It's not the coin, it's the behavior. If the OP was fooling around with his friend's wife behind the friend's back, would it be okay because, after all, he would "just be dating a girl"? >>
Of course not. I think the fact that we're comparing to outbidding a friend on a coin to screwing around with his wife means we've lost all sense of proportion. How are the two things even remotely comparable?? How many deep, meaningful, emotional relationships have you formed with coins lately?? There's a big difference between outbidding on a coin (which is what we're talking about here) and doing the horizontal lambada with your friend's wife.
It scares me a little that people can make such comparisons. This was strictly a financial deal, and the person at the other end suffered no real harm, because they could always just purchase the coin from the friend, if it came to that.
For a good sense of proportion:
Take any coin in your collection. Compare the mintage of that coin (or even the number of existing coins in that grade) and compare it to the number of true friends you have.
That's what makes what this "friend" did so ridiculous.
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
to ignore the rules throw out the bids and sell to him. Sure it happens. But many of us would prefer to
think we are playing on a level playing field and expect more of those we know. I say let the girls keep
talking and eventually it will all smooth out.
<< <i>outbidding a friend >>
this is where the confusion is. the friend wasnt 'outbid' in the circumstance of the auction at hand. He went directly to the seller, offered money if he removed the coin from auction and sold to him, ALL knowing his friend was the high bidder at that point. Nobody can say for sure, but my guess would be if he had simply bid on the coin within the standards it was being offered for auction this situation would not exist.
I think that Mozeppa understands the problem, and Freak and RYK hit it as well.
To everyone who says "it's a coin for god's sake".....well, you are quite materialistic and probably don't understand trust or friendship, or, you are too stuck on the materialism.
If I had a friend who went behind my back for something (coin, promotion, etc), then what kind of friend would they be? Healthy competition is just that....but going behind my back....well, I would hope a FRIEND wouldn't do that.
For many people in life, principles matter.
At review time, where I work, you can tell the backstabbers from true co-worker friends. There is a curve for compensation and some people end up at the bottom and some at the top (more in the middle). It should be about what a person has accomplished. But, it isn't. A lot of times, it is politics. So, some people do anything they can to cut others down. That's uncool. I find out anyone is cutting me down behind my back and I will be after them. However, healthy competition is what has us all doing the best we can to get the higher review scores/comp.
For this ebay auction, helathy competition would have been just that....bid vs bid. Then, the person could have said something or said "take it if you want it that bad". However, when seeing the bid, then going behind the back, and the other person finding out....well, one wonders what else they would do given the chance.
Mike....I hope it all works out for you.....I lost a best friend for ~6 years before....never really knew why.....I think it was all misperceptions. But, we did work it out just by giving it time and then contacting each other.
Wish you the best!
And, for those of you that think that the behaviour was ok (not given the Russ-vs-Marty aka Spy-vs-Spy scenario where both parties are well aware of no holds barred), then I am scared of you.......
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
To err is human. To forgive is divine. If I were John, I'd forgive Mo (eventually), since he seems sincere enough in his apology. Well, it takes guts to get up here in a public forum and apologize (He didn't have to, nobody forced him to, but he did).
JMHO
<< <i>yeah but he never expected that out of me...neither did i ...
what hurts is... he said he wasn't surprized by my actions...but i was....when it was too late.
12 step program? ...you are so off base with that ...i have maybe one drink a month... if that. >>
I don't buy none of this crap!
So, your "friend" said he wasn't surprised by your actions? Well, your friend is either stupid for hanging around you or he's a liar. That's the only two choices he has here.
Jerry
<< <i>bhartman35 I think what your missing is it wasn't a matter of outbidding a friend it was asking the seller
to ignore the rules throw out the bids and sell to him. Sure it happens. But many of us would prefer to
think we are playing on a level playing field and expect more of those we know. I say let the girls keep
talking and eventually it will all smooth out. >>
joeyuk:
I don't know about you, but I've had people offer to sell me outright the things they were auctioning off many times. It happens a lot. And the fact is, if Mike's friend had made a better offer, he could have had the coin. He could have it now, if he'd offer Mike for it. What Mike did is no more "stabbing someone in the back" than if he'd sniped it from him in the auction. In fact, sniping it would be worse, since the friend would be unable to make a counterbid. And I don't hear many people complaining about sniping -- for good reason. And while it might not have been Mike's intention for his friend to know about the inside deal, the friend had ample opportunity to make a counteroffer, because he was told.
And I have an issue thinking that talking about the coin is somehow materialistic. What the friend did in this case was focus on the coin. The facts seem to be, Mike made an outside offer, the seller relayed the offer to Mike's friend, and the friend declined to make a counteroffer. And the worst-case scenario now is his friend has to buy the coin from Mike, rather than the person he was originally going to get it from.
I just see it as much ado about nothing. This was about as serious an infraction as cheating in a game of chess. How many people would end a friendship because of that?
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
I would not cheat a friend in chess, either. I guess there is a shortage of scruples here.
ER's post summed it up best, IMO.
<< <i>This was about as serious an infraction as cheating in a game of chess.
I would not cheat a friend in chess, either. I guess there is a shortage of scruples here.
ER's post summed it up best, IMO. >>
Julian's post summed it best.
Jerry
If I want it, get out of my way........ or get trampled, get beaten silly, get your eyes gouged... a swift kick to the Frankies....
Because it is mine, it belongs to me, this is the order of things....
If it was any other coin....
Then your friend should forgive you...
More Mozeppa for me......
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
I've been told by a few I get first shot if they ever sell. I've kept my word on stuff like this but they didn't. Was I upset? Nope, just disappointed and they showed me where they are coming from. Some of these "set" builders are the same way. Much too serious and they'll shank you on a coin and then lie about it. No matter to me though as I beg no-one to take my money. Matter fact, after it's said and done I'm kinda glad when I don't get a coin and my "friends" have shanked me on it. I save a lot more cash this way.
Sorry if I got off subject a bit, sounds to me both of you are taking this much too serious. You, for trying to shank him and making this thread saying you're sorry (or sorry you got caught Haha) and your "friend" for being mad at you for trying to back-door him. Perhaps he's mad because he didn't do it first?
<< <i>This is what happens when some of y'all take this stuff so seriously. Yes, I've been shanked by my "friend" collectors, and dealers on coins.
I've been told by a few I get first shot if they ever sell. I've kept my word on stuff like this but they didn't. Was I upset? Nope, just disappointed and they showed me where they are coming from. Some of these "set" builders are the same way. Much too serious and they'll shank you on a coin and then lie about it. No matter to me though as I beg no-one to take my money. Matter fact, after it's said and done I'm kinda glad when I don't get a coin and my "friends" have shanked me on it. I save a lot more cash this way.
Sorry if I got off subject a bit, sounds to me both of you are taking this much too serious. You, for trying to shank him and making this thread saying you're sorry (or sorry you got caught Haha) and your "friend" for being mad at you for trying to back-door him. Perhaps he's mad because he didn't do it first?
shudddddup before I shank you!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>and your "friend" for being mad at you for trying to back-door him. >>
Over in the open forum there are quite a few that would be happy at that prospect, rather than mad.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>This was about as serious an infraction as cheating in a game of chess.
I would not cheat a friend in chess, either. I guess there is a shortage of scruples here.
ER's post summed it up best, IMO. >>
Trust is like a picture window. Whether you break it with a BB or a bowling ball, it's still broken.
<< <i>
<< <i>This was about as serious an infraction as cheating in a game of chess.
I would not cheat a friend in chess, either. I guess there is a shortage of scruples here.
ER's post summed it up best, IMO. >>
Trust is like a picture window. Whether you break it with a BB or a bowling ball, it's still broken. >>
and forgiveness is Divine... As it starts from the Lord on above...
Mozeppa truely seems very remorseful to me.....
Since the Lord forgives me for many, many terrible things... in turn I could easily forgive a friend.....
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
How many of these similes do you have?
I think I summed it up best
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
<< <i>Trust is like a picture window. Whether you break it with a BB or a bowling ball, it's still broken.
How many of these similes do you have? >>
Hopefully enough to last a few more posts.
<< <i>Trust is like a picture window. Whether you break it with a BB or a bowling ball, it's still broken.
How many of these similes do you have? >>
Is that a simile or a homily? I always get them confused.
Russ, NCNE
If your buddy can't see the whole picture from begining to end, then he has a lot more to learn than you did.
Your slate is cleared. Now let it go.
<< <i>
<< <i>Trust is like a picture window. Whether you break it with a BB or a bowling ball, it's still broken.
How many of these similes do you have? >>
Is that a simile or a homily? I always get them confused.
Russ, NCNE >>
Actually, I thought it was an analogy.
Revenge is a dish best served cold...
Oh, wait - wrong subject.
IT'S A COIN, FOR CRIPE'S SAKE.
Y'all need to get over yerselves.
That being said, your public scourging here should suffice... The promise of a cold beer and a laugh together should be enough to move on. A famous 12 step saying is that there are no big deals - not that you need a 12 step program, mind you
OK, possibly Guiltaholics Anonymous™ would help
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Now you've confessed privately and publicly.
You have sincerely asked forgivenss from him. Maybe it will come, but it is no longer your responsibility.
Now, forgive yourself.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Trust is like a picture window. Whether you break it with a BB or a bowling ball, it's still broken.
How many of these similes do you have? >>
Is that a simile or a homily? I always get them confused.
Russ, NCNE >>
Actually, I thought it was an analogy. >>
maybe an analgolous homilific similie?
<< <i>maybe an analgolous homilific similie? >>
Crap! You beat me to it! As payback, I'll note that you misspelled analogous and simile.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>maybe an analgolous homilific similie? >>
Crap! You beat me to it! As payback, I'll note that you misspelled analogous and simile.
Russ, NCNE >>
<< <i>If what you describe would end friendships, I'd hate Marty.
hahahaha......
hey moe seriously, I cannot think of one coin that could ever come between me and anyone considerd friends or family...well family is open game
hope it all works out
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
He still wanted 50 % of the profit,i put up with that to the tune of 5 k and finally told him to pound sand !
was i wrong ? i dont think so.
In this case i think Mozeppa was wrong and so does he.
He stepped up and admitted he was a Richard head which he was and he said he was sorry.
He needs to clear the air with his Buddy privately,not here !
My only point is that this is an incredibly minor, niggling thing to end a friendship over, and the friend sounds like he's being petty. If this is the worst thing Mike ever does in his life, I think it's safe to assume he'll be canonized (albeit probably 100 years from now
Having said that, he's fessed up, and now it's out of his hands.
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
You made a choice.
The seller made a choice.
The other bidders made their choice.
Simple question of character.
The personal aspect is irrelevant except to
you and your friend.
How to make it right? Notify the other bidders
and relist the auction to everyone.
JMHO - Ron
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
As long as you're not being dishonest -- which from your OP, you're clearly not -- I don't see a problem with this, nor do I take this sort of thing personally.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I imagine many will recognize others on the other side.(well, when we get there)
Lucy, that had to be the most wonderful thing about forgiveness I think I ever read.
This thread has had me feeling gut wrenching feelings. From sadness, to laughter. I sure hope John is reading this so he knows how many really do care. He might not be, but Mike... you got a greater gift in this thread than you ever could have if John accepted your apology.
Trust and honor go hand in hand. If you lost a friend, you gained wisdom. If your friend comes back, you've gained a brother.
<< <i>There are some really beautiful people here.
I imagine many will recognize others on the other side.(well, when we get there)
Lucy, that had to be the most wonderful thing about forgiveness I think I ever read.
This thread has had me feeling gut wrenching feelings. From sadness, to laughter. I sure hope John is reading this so he knows how many really do care. He might not be, but Mike... you got a greater gift in this thread than you ever could have if John accepted your apology.
Trust and honor go hand in hand. If you lost a friend, you gained wisdom. If your friend comes back, you've gained a brother. >>
Well you see.... I betrayed my friend... very badly..... I mocked Him... I spit on Him... I lied to Him.... I cast Him aside for my own sellfish means and desires....
Yet He still had the love to forgive me, because I asked Him for forgiveness...... When I realized how wrong I had been, how terrible of a person I was...
But my friend was so loving, that He forgave me at any cost, which was His precious life on a Roman Cross some 2000 years ago...
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
I agree with that.....
Pm me his addy and I'll send him a golf trinket or two on your behalf, along with a nice note, that (trust me) will have the desired effect of salving the wounds. A week from today, all will be better than ever.
Guy
First of all, friendship has nothing to do with forgiveness and everything to do with trust. If I were your friend, I would have forgiven you literally hours after the auction. However, I would never be able to trust you again. Friendship isn't possible in this situation. I am surprised so few people are getting this.
Second, I am disappointed that so many people are so sanguine about the eBay rules violations. This suggests that many collectors have extremely elastic ideas as to what ethics are. When we use eBay, we agree to comply with a set of rules. No one is forced to come and use the platform. There's no "under duress" aspect to it. When you do that, you agree to play by the rules, whether you like them or not. I don't understand what's so unclear about that.
Robert A. Heinlein
You have about as much honesty & integrity as ANYONE I've EVER come accross - not just in the "coin world". You did ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong & I can almost guess who the seller & the "friend" were.
You are a man of the utmost integrity & anyone would be lucky to count you among their friends. Screw that idiot that doesn't see it that way. Is it any wonder how he reacted after the way he went after me last year? Didn't you realize then by his words contrasted with your many dealings with me that there's a screw loose upstairs somewhere over there. Hey, maybe the loose scew is why he never wins any races - LOL.
You said:
<< <i>First of all, friendship has nothing to do with forgiveness and everything to do with trust. >>
I disagree. Forgiveness is much more important than you're saying here. Human beings are fallible. We screw up, we argue, and we occasionally hurt each other badly. A friendship based on the proposition that your friend is never going to do you harm would be tenuous, at best. As to forgiving someone quickly: Saying the words, "I forgive you", and actually forgiving someone are two entirely different things. Forgiving someone means not holding past transgressions against them. If you do still hold it against them, then the word you're looking for is "grudge", not "forgiveness".
Mike: I hope your friend eventually does come around. I don't think a person can show much more contrition than you've shown here today. I, for one, am pulling for ya.
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
edit to fix my spelling
Are you eating a bowl of fortune cookies?
Russ, NCNE
Are you eating a bowl of fortune cookies?
If so, how about coughing up the winning Lotto numbers, too.
It doesn't matter if others have different standards for behavior.
You select your friends and confidents based on your threshold for behavior.
Reputation and integrity weigh more on my scale than apparently on some other's.
Never the less, no one always lives up to what they believe should be their standard.
I respect people who regret their actions and repent.
No more self flagellation, meet your own self determined thresholds and you will retain your own self-esteem.
<< <i><<Forgiveness is a gift we freely give, not an entitlement that's expected.>>
Are you eating a bowl of fortune cookies?
If so, how about coughing up the winning Lotto numbers, too.
Now, If I could just figure out how to turn a analogous homilific simile into a numerological winner, I'd really have something!
edit for spelling again
<< <i>That's right, Russ does that to me all the time, and we're still friends... You Bat Rastard!!! >>
Now that I think about it, Marty is an ungrateful butthead. Just the other day I PMed him a link to an Accented Hair set on eBay and gave him a free shot at it.
Russ, NCNE