I see no foul here. We all find ourselves bidding, buying, and selling to each other all the time. The fact that you were able to negotiate a sale, and convinced the seller to cancel the auction to sell outright to you, is your business. Your friend, should not let this influence your personal relationship. If a friend beat me out on a sale, I would get a little laugh out of it, maybe say a few swear words under my breath, and move on. Oranges and apples. Mutually exclusive situations.
A major point is being ignored here, he knew his friend was bidding on the coin and went behind his back and tried to kill the auction. If it happened to me I would most likely not let it ruin a friendship.
However, we all know that this would bother some folks and it obviously did this gentleman. You can't really knock this guy, its the way he is and nothing wrong with that. You also missed the comment that the guy said he was not surprised. Think back when you made this comment, you had a reason for it. Obviously something has happened in the past for this guy to make this comment. Give him the same not you would expect others to give you.
Having blathered on this topic too much already let me just say that it ain't the end of the world and put it behind you.
I personnally would never get into an agreement like "whoever bids on it first has rights to it" which is what i assume your relationship with this person was . Perhaps you should have asked him what his maximum bid was and tell him that you would take it if it went higher. I can see why he would be upset because you went behind his back to try to get it-i would be too. Maybe in a few days he will settle down and get over it. If a friend of mine wanted something really badly and so do i -i would let him get it and then he would owe me the next one...There is always more oppurtunities that come along in coins-ALL coins are out there somewhere, you just have to wait for them to come out. Bob
I probably wouldn't let it end a friendship but I would be majorly pissed if someone got an auction killed that I was high bidder to make a deal offline. Personally, I think its wrong, but that's me. Its not too far removed from buying a coin out from under someone while they have it in hand at a coin show (which has happened to me). I've made offers on coins with no bids but I don't mess with auctions in play. I don't think the end justifies the means no matter how much I want a coin. Maybe I'm the only person on here that feels that way but I do.
<< <i>I probably wouldn't let it end a friendship but I would be majorly pissed if someone got an auction killed that I was high bidder to make a deal offline. Personally, I think its wrong, but that's me. Its not too far removed from buying a coin out from under someone while they have it in hand at a coin show (which has happened to me). I've made offers on coins with no bids but I don't mess with auctions in play. I don't think the end justifies the means no matter how much I want a coin. Maybe I'm the only person on here that feels that way but I do. >>
<< <i>If a friend of mine wanted something really badly and so do i -i would let him get it and then he would owe me the next one... >>
I like this approach, but it is clear to me that if there was a friendship, a simple quick phone call between friends prior to the correspondence attempting to get the auction cancelled in an attempt to covertly buy the coin, would have been appropriate. If there was a friendship, the backdoor move was at best a brain fart. At worst, it exposes that your "friendship" was meaningless to you.
I'm not sure that collusion, which is what you are describing, is good policy or even legal.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I'm not sure that collusion, which is what you are describing, is good policy or even legal. >>
This is a good point. While going behind the friend's back to buy the coin might be against Ebay policy, you're not really screwing anyone. If there's a higher offer on the table than yours, the person making the offer still wins, the person selling the coin still gets the price they want, etc. If you and your friend make a deal that one of you wont' bid on the coin, that deprives the seller of a bid and limits the price they can get for the coin.
When you bid for an auction, you're supposed to bid what you'd be willing to pay for the coin. His friend's bid was already on the table. It's not Mike's fault if it wasn't high enough to keep Mike's offer from being taken. (And in the end, it wasn't taken anyway, if I understand correctly.)
If you haven't noticed, I'm single and miserable and I've got four albums of bitching about it that I would offer as proof.
<< <i>I'm not sure that collusion, which is what you are describing, is good policy or even legal. >>
This is a good point. While going behind the friend's back to buy the coin might be against Ebay policy, you're not really screwing anyone. If there's a higher offer on the table than yours, the person making the offer still wins, the person selling the coin still gets the price they want, etc. If you and your friend make a deal that one of you wont' bid on the coin, that deprives the seller of a bid and limits the price they can get for the coin.
When you bid for an auction, you're supposed to bid what you'd be willing to pay for the coin. His friend's bid was already on the table. It's not Mike's fault if it wasn't high enough to keep Mike's offer from being taken. (And in the end, it wasn't taken anyway, if I understand correctly.) >>
It still amazes me that almost no one has a problem with interferring with an active auction. The seller in many cases ends up screwing themselves too. I've refused quite a number of offline offers to end auctions early and there hasn't been one case where the offer was anywhere near what the coin ended up selling for. The whole point of going this route is not to give the seller the best price anyway. I'm sorry but I just don't agree with an "anything goes" policy. Its just like the people that will walk up to a dealer and try to pay for a coin you have in your hand at a coin show. I guess some people think if they want a coin it doesn't matter what they do to get it.
<< <i>It still amazes me that almost no one has a problem with interferring with an active auction. The seller in many cases ends up screwing themselves too. I've refused quite a number of offline offers to end auctions early and there hasn't been one case where the offer was anywhere near what the coin ended up selling for. The whole point of going this route is not to give the seller the best price anyway. I'm sorry but I just don't agree with an "anything goes" policy. Its just like the people that will walk up to a dealer and try to pay for a coin you have in your hand at a coin show. I guess some people think if they want a coin it doesn't matter what they do to get it. >>
The seller doesn't have to end his or her auction when they get an outside offer. They're more than free to decline the offer, continue the auction, and take their chances with however the auction ends. I've never personally done this, and I agree that the purpose is to get a better deal than you think the auction would return, but that's a gamble on both the buyer and seller side. The reason that it's against Ebay rules is that if you go outside Ebay, they don't get the Final Value Fee for the auction. Other than that, it's no skin off their backs. (We've seen on this board often enough how Ebay doesn't care about protecting sellers or buyers.) It's not stealing, and it's no more cheating anyone than haggling is in general. If everyone is bidding the most they're willing to pay for the item, I really don't see what the problem is.
If you haven't noticed, I'm single and miserable and I've got four albums of bitching about it that I would offer as proof.
If it was THIS coin I think we'd all cut our grandmothers throat for it (just kidding of course). I had my snipe set at WELL over $500. I hope the seller sold it to you & not that bozo John. Although, I AM more than a little PO'd that the auction didn't go the distance, I have no hard feelings against anyone except PERHAPS the seller for not having the stones (and the confidence in the value of the item) to let the auction run it's course.
Edited to add: p.s. where's that "stirring the pot" icon thingy?
If it was <a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=8394081864&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT" target=blank><STRONG>THIS</STRONG></A> coin I think we'd all cut our grandmothers throat for it (just kidding of course). I had my snipe set at WELL over $500. I hope the seller sold it to you & not that bozo John. Although, I AM more than a little PO'd that the auction didn't go the distance, I have no hard feelings against anyone except PERHAPS the seller for not having the stones (and the confidence in the value of the item) to let the auction run it's course.
<STRONG>Edited to add:</STRONG> p.s. where's that "stirring the pot" icon thingy? >>
That seller e-mailed me yesterday evening. He asked me if I would take a look at his auction and provided me a link. He was very concerned since he had received numerous e-mails from potential bidders of his auction inquiring was his coin the genuine Die #4 or that it might be Die #5 (old Die #10).
The seller believes he does in fact have the Die #4. As he requested of me -- I took a look at his auction last night and e-mailed the seller back stating I couldn't make a determination by his photos. Actual examination of the coin is the only way to determine if his coin is indeed Die #4 or that it may turn out to be another Die #. I also told him I have Die #4 and Die #5 (old Die #10) in my personal collection as well as all die markers to authenticate.
I'm guessing, since the seller ended the auction early, he is planning to have his coin authenticated. I do not believe this auction has anything to do with Mike.
Mike: I hope things work out for you. It takes a lot of courage to come on this forum and admit mistakes.
Thanks Billy. That was an extremely responsible thing for the seller to do & I applaud them.
I'm sure you know how difficult it is to get the real thing on one of these. An ANACS MS63 sold for around $825 about a year or so ago on eBay & turned out to NOT be die 4. ANACS reimbursed the buyer in full.
A PCGS mint error slabbed MS66RD sold for about $1,275 on eBay about 6 months after the 63 and didn't have ANY cuds on it.
This seller sells so many raw coins (with great feedback) many would easily have trusted whatever assertion they made in regards to which variety it was. Glad to hear they're doing the "right thing".
p.s. If you ever have a die 4 or 5 available, shoot me a PM.
Comments
However, we all know that this would bother some folks and it obviously did this gentleman. You can't really knock this guy, its the way he is and nothing wrong with that. You also missed the comment that the guy said he was not surprised. Think back when you made this comment, you had a reason for it. Obviously something has happened in the past for this guy to make this comment. Give him the same not you would expect others to give you.
Having blathered on this topic too much already let me just say that it ain't the end of the world and put it behind you.
<< <i>I probably wouldn't let it end a friendship but I would be majorly pissed if someone got an auction killed that I was high bidder to make a deal offline. Personally, I think its wrong, but that's me. Its not too far removed from buying a coin out from under someone while they have it in hand at a coin show (which has happened to me). I've made offers on coins with no bids but I don't mess with auctions in play. I don't think the end justifies the means no matter how much I want a coin. Maybe I'm the only person on here that feels that way but I do. >>
Yeah, but you're a VAM collector.
I hear VAM collectors are like that
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>If a friend of mine wanted something really badly and so do i -i would let him get it and then he would owe me the next one... >>
I like this approach, but it is clear to me that if there was a friendship, a simple quick phone call between friends prior to the correspondence attempting to get the auction cancelled in an attempt to covertly buy the coin, would have been appropriate. If there was a friendship, the backdoor move was at best a brain fart. At worst, it exposes that your "friendship" was meaningless to you.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I'm not sure that collusion, which is what you are describing, is good policy or even legal. >>
This is a good point. While going behind the friend's back to buy the coin might be against Ebay policy, you're not really screwing anyone. If there's a higher offer on the table than yours, the person making the offer still wins, the person selling the coin still gets the price they want, etc. If you and your friend make a deal that one of you wont' bid on the coin, that deprives the seller of a bid and limits the price they can get for the coin.
When you bid for an auction, you're supposed to bid what you'd be willing to pay for the coin. His friend's bid was already on the table. It's not Mike's fault if it wasn't high enough to keep Mike's offer from being taken. (And in the end, it wasn't taken anyway, if I understand correctly.)
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
Would you want a friend to do this to you?
Are you really HIS friend?
My grandchildren. The heirs to my collection! (Just not to soon I hope)
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm not sure that collusion, which is what you are describing, is good policy or even legal. >>
This is a good point. While going behind the friend's back to buy the coin might be against Ebay policy, you're not really screwing anyone. If there's a higher offer on the table than yours, the person making the offer still wins, the person selling the coin still gets the price they want, etc. If you and your friend make a deal that one of you wont' bid on the coin, that deprives the seller of a bid and limits the price they can get for the coin.
When you bid for an auction, you're supposed to bid what you'd be willing to pay for the coin. His friend's bid was already on the table. It's not Mike's fault if it wasn't high enough to keep Mike's offer from being taken. (And in the end, it wasn't taken anyway, if I understand correctly.) >>
It still amazes me that almost no one has a problem with interferring with an active auction. The seller in many cases ends up screwing themselves too. I've refused quite a number of offline offers to end auctions early and there hasn't been one case where the offer was anywhere near what the coin ended up selling for. The whole point of going this route is not to give the seller the best price anyway. I'm sorry but I just don't agree with an "anything goes" policy. Its just like the people that will walk up to a dealer and try to pay for a coin you have in your hand at a coin show. I guess some people think if they want a coin it doesn't matter what they do to get it.
<< <i>It still amazes me that almost no one has a problem with interferring with an active auction. The seller in many cases ends up screwing themselves too. I've refused quite a number of offline offers to end auctions early and there hasn't been one case where the offer was anywhere near what the coin ended up selling for. The whole point of going this route is not to give the seller the best price anyway. I'm sorry but I just don't agree with an "anything goes" policy. Its just like the people that will walk up to a dealer and try to pay for a coin you have in your hand at a coin show. I guess some people think if they want a coin it doesn't matter what they do to get it. >>
The seller doesn't have to end his or her auction when they get an outside offer. They're more than free to decline the offer, continue the auction, and take their chances with however the auction ends. I've never personally done this, and I agree that the purpose is to get a better deal than you think the auction would return, but that's a gamble on both the buyer and seller side. The reason that it's against Ebay rules is that if you go outside Ebay, they don't get the Final Value Fee for the auction. Other than that, it's no skin off their backs. (We've seen on this board often enough how Ebay doesn't care about protecting sellers or buyers.) It's not stealing, and it's no more cheating anyone than haggling is in general. If everyone is bidding the most they're willing to pay for the item, I really don't see what the problem is.
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
<< <i>I've made offers on coins with no bids but I don't mess with auctions in play. >>
That's also my philosophy. When there are no bids the seller can add a BIN and I can grab it. But, once there are bids I'll wait and lay in a snipe.
Russ, NCNE
If it was THIS coin I think we'd all cut our grandmothers throat for it (just kidding of course). I had my snipe set at WELL over $500. I hope the seller sold it to you & not that bozo John. Although, I AM more than a little PO'd that the auction didn't go the distance, I have no hard feelings against anyone except PERHAPS the seller for not having the stones (and the confidence in the value of the item) to let the auction run it's course.
Edited to add: p.s. where's that "stirring the pot" icon thingy?
<< <i>Mike,
If it was <a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=8394081864&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT" target=blank><STRONG>THIS</STRONG></A> coin I think we'd all cut our grandmothers throat for it (just kidding of course). I had my snipe set at WELL over $500. I hope the seller sold it to you & not that bozo John. Although, I AM more than a little PO'd that the auction didn't go the distance, I have no hard feelings against anyone except PERHAPS the seller for not having the stones (and the confidence in the value of the item) to let the auction run it's course.
<STRONG>Edited to add:</STRONG> p.s. where's that "stirring the pot" icon thingy?
That seller e-mailed me yesterday evening. He asked me if I would take a look at his auction and provided me a link. He was very concerned since he had received numerous e-mails from potential bidders of his auction inquiring was his coin the genuine Die #4 or that it might be Die #5 (old Die #10).
The seller believes he does in fact have the Die #4. As he requested of me -- I took a look at his auction last night and e-mailed the seller back stating I couldn't make a determination by his photos. Actual examination of the coin is the only way to determine if his coin is indeed Die #4 or that it may turn out to be another Die #. I also told him I have Die #4 and Die #5 (old Die #10) in my personal collection as well as all die markers to authenticate.
I'm guessing, since the seller ended the auction early, he is planning to have his coin authenticated. I do not believe this auction has anything to do with Mike.
Mike: I hope things work out for you. It takes a lot of courage to come on this forum and admit mistakes.
I'm sure you know how difficult it is to get the real thing on one of these. An ANACS MS63 sold for around $825 about a year or so ago on eBay & turned out to NOT be die 4. ANACS reimbursed the buyer in full.
A PCGS mint error slabbed MS66RD sold for about $1,275 on eBay about 6 months after the 63 and didn't have ANY cuds on it.
This seller sells so many raw coins (with great feedback) many would easily have trusted whatever assertion they made in regards to which variety it was. Glad to hear they're doing the "right thing".
p.s. If you ever have a die 4 or 5 available, shoot me a PM.