Secondary tier slabs - how good is the grading?
roadrunner
Posts: 28,371 ✭✭✭✭✭
A forum member posted a coin on the BST. It caught my eye since I just had one and was curious what he was getting on his ebay coin.
It actually was going quite cheap for a PCGS coin and I was surprised. But my curiousity got me and I looked at the auction.
Then it hit me that it was a 3rd tier coin. Totally diff ballgame now.
I posted this on his thread:
As a seller I would be happy to get near "xxxx" money for this coin. I have an "xxxx" PCGS with less rub, more field luster, and less hits than this "xxxx". Someone was very fortunate in getting this graded as xxxx. I have no axe to grind here but merely to state that
this coin looks to be xxxx all day long.
OK, now I get it, this is a "3rd tier graded" coin. So I was right. There is no way this is an xxx coin. And right now it is bringing very strong ......money. At around $1900 you have already done very well on your coin.
Listing a 3rd world slabbed coin is no crime. But when one says they can "find no reason why it would not really be the advertised grade" they put their reputation and expertise behind. In fact the coin is nowhere near close to the listed grade. It is also bringing much more money than it should be to a host of ebayers. I have no problem if they want the coin...just don't hype it and say something you know is false. If the seller really believes that the coin is the same grade as an equivalently labeled PCGS coin, then I'll apologize to him and just chalk it up to the fact that they know very little about the coin in question. But in doing so they bring harm to others.
Sure, it brings more money to the market today. But down the road it could lose us another long term buyer/collector, etc.
I would be happy to link to the auction and bring them into it if they so desire. I doubt they want the additional scrutiny. I do not think I crossed the line as they said when they PM'd me. They said it was none of my business to comment negatively. True.....until I saw that they hyped the coin in the auction. Then it's a diff story. The coin is a piece of swill as graded by the 3rd tier party. But it could still be a nice coin if in a lower PCGS holder. I am wrong? I'm normally very good about not commenting negatively on other's BST coins for sale. But this one just grabbed me since I just got scammed by an ebayer on a very similar coin that I double paid for. Of course he voided his return privilege because he disagreed that I was screwed.
My PM reply to a forum member.
______________________
XXX,
I considered my statement well before I posted it.
And I was not going to comment because I assumed the coin was a typical PCGS or NGC xxxx. You conveniently failed to mention "XXX graded" in your post.
But when I opened up the auction and saw just a horrible looking coin I couldn't believe it. I had just assumed it was PCGS. My first thought, how could they (PCGS) screw up so bad. Here I was just recently with an PCGS AU58 in hand with rub on the highpoints that kicks the heck out of your coin. My coin sold for $1500. Your coin is bid up to $1900 with nearly two dozen bidders.
Then to seal the argument I read your auction decription which hypes this overgraded coin. I can't believe you brought this stuff to the forum. I have higher standards for all of us than the typical ebay seller scammers.
I see this auction as presented as a scam or con. I'd say it to David Hall or Coinguy1 if it was their auction too. I'd expect similar ridicule if I posted such an auction. For 3rd tier graded slabs listing the grade is one thing. Maybe saying it is typical for the grade for that company is ok. But do not even hint comparison with other major TPG graded coins or values. Do not say that the coin is a "real looker" or words to that effect unless you are willing to hang YOUR reputation out on the line.
This forum is also about consumer protection. I'm here to promote and help the hobby. Your auction & post here, only promotes yourself at the detriment to the hobby. Hence I stand by my original comments.
I'd be more than happy to make this a 1000 count post and take it over to the open forum. A lot of good could come out of it.
roadrunner
It actually was going quite cheap for a PCGS coin and I was surprised. But my curiousity got me and I looked at the auction.
Then it hit me that it was a 3rd tier coin. Totally diff ballgame now.
I posted this on his thread:
As a seller I would be happy to get near "xxxx" money for this coin. I have an "xxxx" PCGS with less rub, more field luster, and less hits than this "xxxx". Someone was very fortunate in getting this graded as xxxx. I have no axe to grind here but merely to state that
this coin looks to be xxxx all day long.
OK, now I get it, this is a "3rd tier graded" coin. So I was right. There is no way this is an xxx coin. And right now it is bringing very strong ......money. At around $1900 you have already done very well on your coin.
Listing a 3rd world slabbed coin is no crime. But when one says they can "find no reason why it would not really be the advertised grade" they put their reputation and expertise behind. In fact the coin is nowhere near close to the listed grade. It is also bringing much more money than it should be to a host of ebayers. I have no problem if they want the coin...just don't hype it and say something you know is false. If the seller really believes that the coin is the same grade as an equivalently labeled PCGS coin, then I'll apologize to him and just chalk it up to the fact that they know very little about the coin in question. But in doing so they bring harm to others.
Sure, it brings more money to the market today. But down the road it could lose us another long term buyer/collector, etc.
I would be happy to link to the auction and bring them into it if they so desire. I doubt they want the additional scrutiny. I do not think I crossed the line as they said when they PM'd me. They said it was none of my business to comment negatively. True.....until I saw that they hyped the coin in the auction. Then it's a diff story. The coin is a piece of swill as graded by the 3rd tier party. But it could still be a nice coin if in a lower PCGS holder. I am wrong? I'm normally very good about not commenting negatively on other's BST coins for sale. But this one just grabbed me since I just got scammed by an ebayer on a very similar coin that I double paid for. Of course he voided his return privilege because he disagreed that I was screwed.
My PM reply to a forum member.
______________________
XXX,
I considered my statement well before I posted it.
And I was not going to comment because I assumed the coin was a typical PCGS or NGC xxxx. You conveniently failed to mention "XXX graded" in your post.
But when I opened up the auction and saw just a horrible looking coin I couldn't believe it. I had just assumed it was PCGS. My first thought, how could they (PCGS) screw up so bad. Here I was just recently with an PCGS AU58 in hand with rub on the highpoints that kicks the heck out of your coin. My coin sold for $1500. Your coin is bid up to $1900 with nearly two dozen bidders.
Then to seal the argument I read your auction decription which hypes this overgraded coin. I can't believe you brought this stuff to the forum. I have higher standards for all of us than the typical ebay seller scammers.
I see this auction as presented as a scam or con. I'd say it to David Hall or Coinguy1 if it was their auction too. I'd expect similar ridicule if I posted such an auction. For 3rd tier graded slabs listing the grade is one thing. Maybe saying it is typical for the grade for that company is ok. But do not even hint comparison with other major TPG graded coins or values. Do not say that the coin is a "real looker" or words to that effect unless you are willing to hang YOUR reputation out on the line.
This forum is also about consumer protection. I'm here to promote and help the hobby. Your auction & post here, only promotes yourself at the detriment to the hobby. Hence I stand by my original comments.
I'd be more than happy to make this a 1000 count post and take it over to the open forum. A lot of good could come out of it.
roadrunner
0
Comments
That said, I don't know the auction in question, so I can't say with any degree of accuracy if that is what happened in this case or not. I would hope that the person that owns the auction would want to clear this matter up, either in private or public.
The seller's comments are how he feels. I personally will keep these comments in mind when I see any of his future offerings. Maybe he really DOES think it would crossover?
Ok. If the seller really has spent 3 years on the forum and thinks it will cross then he needs some grading help from all of us. I'd be willing to help. But in the meantime, he should refrain from commenting on 3rd tier slab grades imo. If my comments have done that then I think we have all won. As a rule none of us should comment on 3rd tier slabs as it's a can of worms since they have no ready resale value in those holders (no sheets to tell you what they are worth or who would pay X for them). The seller can be 100% innocent in how they presented it. That's ok. But let's learn a lesson and go forward. Most ebayers who sell 3rd tier slabs and hype then as equivalent to PCGS or list PCGS price guides do so knowingly. I probably took a leap and assumed a longer term forum member had to have known better. He probably didn't. But the effect to the buyers is no different. They assume he knows what he's talking about. Either way, the comments on 3rd tier slabs causes the same damage to potential buyers.
If I was selling something that was not as described and didn't know it, I'd want someone to let me know that I was out to lunch.
It's also one of the reasons I don't sell on ebay and very infrequently sell anything to the public in general. It's just easier and final selling with dealers. Plus they pay more in most cases.
Let's face it, most NTC, PCI, SEGS, NUMIStrust, PSGC, and other 3rd tiers are often is disagreement with PCGS/NGC. When a seller says they didn't mean to try to con anyone they have to understand that you cannot comment positively unless you will stand behind it. I'm never gonna say this xxx65 looks like a real 65 unless I know it to be true and will stake my repuation and money by it. If it's a 62 coin in reality I should either state that or just don't comment.
When sellers start to imply that the 3rd tier coin looks to be properly graded just like top tiered companies they are getting into very deep water 95% of the time. It's a very bad river to try and cross and later say I didn't see any problem stating that.
That's my point. A photo won't make any difference. Pick any example of an xxx graded coin and slab a PCGS label. And then go auction it off as the real thing.
linky
Now I read this thread and I'm amazed that you, a (GASP) Master Collector, would take your comments a step further and continue to knock the coin and the member.
Your PM response that you cut/pasted....you should really consider deleting that because, frankly and no offense, it makes you look like a total jackass. I don't know what sort of reply you received but I can assure you that if you sent me something like that about a coin I have for sale with large pictures and my opinion listed, friendly or cordial would the the last thing you'd expect to see out of me.
In your PM you call his coin horrible, you boast about your PCGS one, you accuse him of hyping and chastise him for "bringing it to the forum" and imply that he is an ebay scammer in the same sentence. You then go on to tell him you see his auction as a scam and then proceed to tell him what his opinion of the coin should be and how he should state such in his listing and then admit you are ridiculing him just before telling him his auction and post are a detriment to the hobby.
Here is his text from his auction....
<< <i>This is a rare and beautiful 1955 Doubled Die. This coin is especially hard to find in mint state condition. The coin is certified by SEGS as an MS 63 Brown. Although the opinion of SEGS is sometimes less trusted than PCGS and NGC, I can find no reason that this coin should be something other than mint state or MS 63. I have provided large detailed pictures to allow you to judge for yourself. >>
He makes no claim that the coin will indeed cross or anything. He clearly states that SEGS is sometimes less trusted than PCGS/NGC and then goes on to state HIS OPINION. The auction also has nice pictures which can even be enlarged!
Frankly, I've looked at his pictures a few times since he initiated that thread and I don't find that coin unattractive at all and I am still looking at it and don't know how anyone can state with absolute certainty that the coin is not MS.
<< <i>then I'll apologize to him and just chalk it up to the fact that they know very little about the coin in question >>
That's probably the right thing to do and for you to admit that you know nothing about the coin in question, since it is not in your hand.
that's my 2c.
My intent was not to decieve.
I personally DO NOT see rub, not for lack of trying.
I personly thought SEGS got it right this time as they sometimes do.
Clearly, by the opinion of others, I was wrong.
I gave, in my opnion, good pics to let the bidders decide.
I bought this coin for much more than it is selling for - I'm paying for an education here as well.
3 years since I joined the forum -- yes. But I really do have other things I do.
I own 5 slabbed coins and three raw ones -- please don't hold me to the standards of a grading company or "master collector"
Although, I like coin collecting I have run into some real assholes in the business (not directed at roadrunner) and this has left a very bad taste in my mouth.
As a kid, coin collecting was fun. Now it's more of a business with all the bullshit that comes with it.
Thanks, Ralph
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Although I can't see the pictures in the auction, without them I have to agree with Goose3 -I don't think the description and the fact that there are (hopefully) large close up pictures available is misleading.
<< <i>
Ok. If the seller really has spent 3 years on the forum and thinks it will cross then he needs some grading help from all of us. I'd be willing to help. But in the meantime, he should refrain from commenting on 3rd tier slab grades imo. If my comments have done that then I think we have all won. As a rule none of us should comment on 3rd tier slabs as it's a can of worms since they have no ready resale value in those holders (no sheets to tell you what they are worth or who would pay X for them). >>
- Years on the forum mean nothing as the seller responded so.
- Everyone has a right to comment on any slabbed or unslabbed coin, especially their own!
- No sheets tell you who is paying X for any coin.....PCGS or SEGS.
- Without seeing the coin in hand NO ONE can really tell what it grades. If you can, you could beat all the services at their own game and certify coins via a e-mail picture.
Cameron Kiefer
<< <i>I just read that thread on the b/s/t before seeing this post and my initial thought when I saw your comments was that you are totally offbase to say such things.
Now I read this thread and I'm amazed that you, a (GASP) Master Collector, would take your comments a step further and continue to knock the coin and the member.
Your PM response that you cut/pasted....you should really consider deleting that because, frankly and no offense, it makes you look like a total jackass. I don't know what sort of reply you received but I can assure you that if you sent me something like that about a coin I have for sale with large pictures and my opinion listed, friendly or cordial would the the last thing you'd expect to see out of me.
In your PM you call his coin horrible, you boast about your PCGS one, you accuse him of hyping and chastise him for "bringing it to the forum" and imply that he is an ebay scammer in the same sentence. You then go on to tell him you see his auction as a scam and then proceed to tell him what his opinion of the coin should be and how he should state such in his listing and then admit you are ridiculing him just before telling him his auction and post are a detriment to the hobby.
Here is his text from his auction....
<< <i>This is a rare and beautiful 1955 Doubled Die. This coin is especially hard to find in mint state condition. The coin is certified by SEGS as an MS 63 Brown. Although the opinion of SEGS is sometimes less trusted than PCGS and NGC, I can find no reason that this coin should be something other than mint state or MS 63. I have provided large detailed pictures to allow you to judge for yourself. >>
He makes no claim that the coin will indeed cross or anything. He clearly states that SEGS is sometimes less trusted than PCGS/NGC and then goes on to state HIS OPINION. The auction also has nice pictures which can even be enlarged!
Frankly, I've looked at his pictures a few times since he initiated that thread and I don't find that coin unattractive at all and I am still looking at it and don't know how anyone can state with absolute certainty that the coin is not MS.
<< <i>then I'll apologize to him and just chalk it up to the fact that they know very little about the coin in question >>
That's probably the right thing to do and for you to admit that you know nothing about the coin in question, since it is not in your hand.
that's my 2c. >>
I have to agree with goose on this!
The seller seems entirely forthright, and, for those who think that the worthy, the "beautiful" and ALWAYS "correct for the grade" coins exist EXCLUSIVELY in PCGS plastic... grow up, it jest ain't so.
I don't even know Ralph nor do I know you so I assure you I have no stake or other interest in this but yes, you, in fact, have handled this completely wrong and are totally out of line. JMHO but you asked!
I know where he is coming from.
I do feel that he crossed the line by commenting on the coin as a real 63. Doesn't matter if he said SEGS normally is liberal. ICG also tends to grade easier on classics, at least in my experience.
The hobby is a giant landmine and services that grade at lower levels to try and price out the same as PCGS, NGC are essentially cons.
If anyone else posted this thread I would still comment on it.
The coin in the photo does suck bigtime. I'll put my money where my mouth is.
I'll offer Ralph $1000 if he sends that coin through PCGS and gets a MS63 grade on it. I'll offer him $500 if he sends to PCGS and gets a MS grade on it. I will pay for the grade fee and shipping.
That should more than compensate him for any potential loss he may have suffered from my comments. You'll need to pull the auction. But if I were you I'd stick with the $2000 you're getting now. I feel the coin is worth $1500 max. I'd pay $1350 myself.
I paid $1320 for an AU58 from my local dealer last month.
But I will not retract this post at this time. I feel how I feel. We're here to educate and share. Discussing this here is not affecting his ebay PR. I can infer that my detractors here also like to sell 3rd party slabs and profit accordingly. I don't touch them except to crack out and place in PCGS or NGC.
Years on the forum mean nothing as the seller responded so.
They actually do. If you can't grade then don't comment as such when you sell your coins via the forum. Leave it on ebay.
Everyone has a right to comment on any slabbed or unslabbed coin, especially their own!
Yes they do. I also have a right to comment on what they said just as well. I didnt' comment on ebay, I commented here. I think I have a right to protect forum members or highlight what I see as problems. If you think I'm wrong go buy the coin. My opinion is only just that, an opinion. If that coin sells for $3000 because a newbie thinks it's a 63 because Ralph said he saw no reason why it wasn't (and he's an experienced ebay seller.....infer to mean he knows how to grade)...then the newbie gets screwed...great!
No sheets tell you who is paying X for any coin.....PCGS or SEGS.
In fact blue sheet does tell you what you can get for almost any PCGS and NGC coin 90% of the time sight unseen or even seen.
There is NOTHING out there in any way, shape or form to support a SEGS grade. SEGS graders grade to a different standard that is 1-3 points looser on average than PCGS.
Without seeing the coin in hand NO ONE can really tell what it grades. If you can, you could beat all the services at their own game and certify coins via a e-m
Wrong. Photos can show you where a coin has problems, rub,
and other defects. It is clear in this one. I can see the luster problems, rubs, and hits. See above for my offer to Ralph. I'm putting my $$ where my mouth is. If I had any doubts about my comments I would have kept them silent. I have doubts.
roadrunner
Runningnut? Thanks! I posted my link after he already did the deed.
I did not want to bring Ralph into it. I just started by making the point about comments on 3rd party slabs. Don't do it unless you know better. I'm wagering $1000 I know enough. You other guys are welcome to wager with me if you like since you are all huffin and puffin (please PM me). If you wanted to dig and find the auction in question you could have and then still commented privately.
I'm amazed at the 2-faceness of the audience here. Then again,
I am not surprised.
Yes, mix it up boys. But I do have a BIG problem with coin grading in the hobby and find myself routinely taking on ebayers and holding them totheir words of hype and puffery. And I do get retaliatory NEGS. Comes with the territory. Maybe you guys should think twice about supporting the continuance of crappy 3rd party grading. The coin is a turd as a 63. Sorry for bursting your rose colored glasses bubble. If I'm wrong I lose $1000 and get to drink spoiled milk and apologize to all.
My $1000 offer stands.
roadrunner
i see nothing wrong with either roadrunner criticizing the auction or Ralph stating that he believes SEGS grading to be correct.
a 20% restocking fee, however, and pardon my shouting, SHOULD GET HIM BANNED!
jmho
z
As I said, I have no stake in this whatsoever but to answer the question YOU pose in your title. You are completely wrong to stick yourself in this man's business and NO ONE can grade from a photo although granted, scans and some photos tend to bring the very worst out in coins.
I do not see him hyping the coin, he makes mention of Hobby opinions of PCGS versus SEGS and then goes on to state his own opinion.
Some of the grading services you identify as being 3rd tier are, while a few of them I would go as far as saying are 4th tier, however, we have all seen coins in these slabs that are nuts on for the grade at times, not often, but they do exist.
My own favorite success story was an NTC 1910 63 Half I purchased. I purchased it way back of market price because of the grading service. Putting myself in this sellers shoes, if I was to of put the coin up on ebay and noted that I felt it was correctly graded and a member started slamming me for my own opinion of the coin I would think that very unfair. Why? Because the coin is currently residing in PCGS plastic with a grade of 63.Will that be the case with this coin? Hmm.. Don’t know Lincolns very well but doubt it. What if the coin came back a 61? Should the seller be nailed to the cross for his own opinion?
I bought a 3rd tier slabber from a well respected forum member off of ebay.... he gave the coin a 1 point downgrade from PCI65 to personal grade of 64.....NGC called it a 63.... should this member be hung by their testicles for being a point off?
Bottom line is we are grading from a picture and as such don't really know for sure...personally, I think it right to pull the nails out that you hammered into this guy
You are now taking things a step further and criticizing members that do not agree with you.
<< <i>I can infer that my detractors here also like to sell 3rd party slabs and profit accordingly. >>
You aren't going to make/maintain many friends around here with such an assinine comment.
<< <i> And who was the person who posted the link to the auction??? >>
Who cares? Do you really think that anyone here with 2 brain cells to rub together could not find the thread within a minute or 2.
<< <i>I think I have a right to protect forum members or highlight what I see as problems >>
Well, I will certainly sleep better tonite knowing that you are here to protect us but it would appear that your job is in jeopardy judging by the responses so far.
<< <i>I'm amazed at the 2-faceness of the audience here. >>
I am amazed that someone here would publicly blast a fellow member, his coin, his auction, and the members that stand up for the member being wronged.
Roadrunner, you should have inserted your shoe into your mouth after your initial post but I guess your ass got in the way.
UTTERLY REPUGNANT
can i?
at this point it would cost you $400 to see the coin in hand.
$400!
<< <i>a 20% "restocking fee" is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS
i see nothing wrong with either roadrunner criticizing the auction or Ralph stating that he believes SEGS grading to be correct.
a 20% restocking fee, however, and pardon my shouting, SHOULD GET HIM BANNED!
jmho
z >>
Zenny, it's one thing to criticize an auction. It's something totally different when you criticize the person and fellow members.
and yes, I will agree the Restock fee, or any restock fee by any seller is ridiculous.
The coin is not a 63 nor even mint state. I've offered Ralpbh a free chance to earn $500-$1000 at no additional expense to him.
If Ralph would like to me to remove all of the above posts I will do so. He only needs to PM me one more time. We can all delete all comments, Keifer, Pharmer, all of you.
My $1000 offer will stand should he want to pursue that. I would post the results later on.
My premise that you can tell dogs in a photo still stands. You can.
Most definitely. And I would never retract that. I'mnot saying I can grade that coin to within one mint state point by a photo. Just that it is not MS imo. I grade it 55/58 at best. Maybe I'm wrong. Hmmm. SEGS can attribute and authenticate well. MS grading is a tough game. Few are really good at it. But then again it is just SEGS opinion,.....and then my opinion,.....and yours too. they all count.
roadrunner
20% restocking fee?
Zenny- Yeah a little whacked, I think I will protest by NOT Bidding on an item with this policy rather than hammering a guy for it.
He could just as easily posted pictures of the slab and coins and let them tell the whole story.
He went beyond this by mentioning "...the opinion of SEGS is sometimes less trusted than PCGS and NGC," and his personal opinion, gives the potential buyer some sort of indication that not all opinions are equal (so judge for yourself).
Although I have some coins that may be undergraded by a point or two (maybe even more) in TPG slabs, I also have a few that I consider seriously undergraded.
Based on the bids so far on this auction, there are some people (experienced collectors or not) that seem to want one of the 55 DDOs no matter what the cost and I'm sure you've run into a few of these types in your years of purchasing and selling coins.
Coin Grading in plastic slabs is just someone elses opinion written on the slab.
I would stick up for the seller of this auction even if I didn't know he was a member here. And that's just MY opinion.
If I only had a dollar for every VAM I have...err...nevermind...I do!!
My "Fun With 21D" Die State Collection - QX5 Pics Attached
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Proud Owner of
2 –DAMMIT BOY!!! ® Awards
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Although I don't recommend grading from photos either, the rub is fairly obvious.
<< <i>I had a excellent Margarita yesterday at Little Anitas Cantina in Old Town.... But if you drink it very fast, you get brain freeze!
Lucybop, when you gonna post some pictures of YOUR new '55??
If I only had a dollar for every VAM I have...err...nevermind...I do!!
My "Fun With 21D" Die State Collection - QX5 Pics Attached
-----
Proud Owner of
2 –DAMMIT BOY!!! ® Awards
The coin sure looks AU to me. Where is the Luster ?
Ken
<< <i>- Years on the forum mean nothing as the seller responded so.
- Everyone has a right to comment on any slabbed or unslabbed coin, especially their own!
- No sheets tell you who is paying X for any coin.....PCGS or SEGS.
- Without seeing the coin in hand NO ONE can really tell what it grades. If you can, you could beat all the services at their own game and certify coins via a e-mail picture.
Cameron Kiefer >>
A lot of people around here need (another) hobby.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Uncirculated-1955-Double-Die-Lincoln-Cent_W0QQitemZ8358194283QQcategoryZ39457QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Silverman68, jfoot13, GAB, ricman, Smittys, scrapman1077, RyGuy, Connecticoin, Meltdown, VikingDude, Peaceman, Patches and more.
<< <i>I like this 55DDO auction better. Now thats the way to sell a coin!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Uncirculated-1955-Double-Die-Lincoln-Cent_W0QQitemZ8358194283QQcategoryZ39457QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem >>
taken straight from the anaconda playbook..........
<< <i>I had a excellent Margarita yesterday at Little Anitas Cantina in Old Town.... But if you drink it very fast, you get brain freeze!
Honey, I've got a great brain thaw method!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>I like this 55DDO auction better. Now thats the way to sell a coin!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Uncirculated-1955-Double-Die-Lincoln-Cent_W0QQitemZ8358194283QQcategoryZ39457QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem >>
taken straight from the anaconda playbook.......... >>
Some might pay extra for the breast toning!!
If I only had a dollar for every VAM I have...err...nevermind...I do!!
My "Fun With 21D" Die State Collection - QX5 Pics Attached
-----
Proud Owner of
2 –DAMMIT BOY!!! ® Awards
roadrunner,
you have brought attention to this and might as well let it go.
Any snow in the Sandias yet ?
whats the name of that eatery at the topp o the Tram ?
True .... but it's a lot easier to tell from an image what a coin DOES NOT GRADE than to tell what it grades.
i think this post was in bad taste.
This could have been approached very differently !
Proof
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I had no idea who the seller was or that anyone from here had even seen it, much less commented.
My immediate response was .......ugh! I didn't agree with the seller's opinion, but then hyping your coin for sale on the Bay is SOP for most sellers anyway.
AU to be sure, plus numerous hits. Then I saw the slab. I though even less of it after that. The re-stocking fee was the icing on the cake, that was just too much to believe. That told me more about the underlying facts about this coin than even the pictures.
I'll stay out of the personal opinions regarding the seller or RR's comments.
IMO, for what little it's worth in the grand scheme of things, there's no way that coin will make it into any MS slab from either PCGS, NGC or ANACs.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Now, JMHO, but again, right or wrong, Ralph did go out of his way to be as forthright as possible therefore there is no intent to deceive, again IMHO.
With this being said, I DO NOT see anyone twisting bidders' arms to bid on this piece. The two wrongs that I DO perceive here are 1) the way RR has gone about this although HE did not originally post the link. and 2) a 20% re-stocking fee is just a bit much and equally out of line.
If you have a personal issue, particularly with a fellow member here, it should have been between and stayed between the 2 members and NOT posted all over the Forum inevitably, to varying degrees, casting BOTH members in less than favorable light.
You asked a question and I answered it as honestly as I can. Good Luck to all and everyone, try to have a nice day!
Peace,
B00M
<< <i>Right or wrong, the coin is in a SEGS 63 holder. While there are cherries to be picked from time to time in these lesser holders, usually there are not but the topic is in this thread's Title.
Now, JMHO, but again, right or wrong, Ralph did go out of his way to be as forthright as possible therefore there is no intent to deceive, again IMHO.
With this being said, I DO NOT see anyone twisting bidders' arms to bid on this piece. The two wrongs that I DO perceive here are 1) the way RR has gone about this although HE did not originally post the link. and 2) a 20% re-stocking fee is just a bit much and equally out of line.
If you have a personal issue, particularly with a fellow member here, it should have been between and stayed between the 2 members and NOT posted all over the Forum inevitably, to varying degrees, casting BOTH members in less than favorable light.
You asked a question and I answered it as honestly as I can. Good Luck to all and everyone, try to have a nice day!
Peace,
B00M >>
Well put, and it would be nice to see answers to the question RR posed, rather than opinions on the coin, which are irrelevant to the stated point of the thread.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>Would this 55/55 cross into a SEGS MS63 holder?!
it might cross into a box of sees candies.......me loves the milk chocolate ones