THE U.S. NATIONAL MOTTOS: Their history & constitutionality
The original national motto: "E Pluribus Unum" The original motto of the United States was secular. "E Pluribus Unum" is Latin for "One from many" or "One from many parts." It refers to the welding of a single federal state from a group of individual political units -- originally colonies and now states.
On 1776-JUL-4, Congress appointed John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson to prepare a design for the Great Seal of the United States. The first design, submitted to Congress on 1776-AUG-10 used the motto "E Pluribus Unum." It was rejected. Five other designs also failed to meet with Congress' approval during the next five years. In 1782, Congress asked Mr. Thomson, Secretary of Congress, to complete the project. Thomson, along with a friend named Barton, produced a design that was accepted by Congress on 1782-JUN-10. It included an eagle with a heart-shaped shield, holding arrows and an olive branch in its claws. The motto "E Pluribus Unum" appeared on a scroll held in its beak. The seal was first used on 1782-SEP-16. It was first used on some federal coins in 1795. 1
The replacement motto: "In God We Trust:" Almost a century and a half ago, 11 Protestant denominations mounted a campaign to add references to God to the U.S. Constitution and other federal documents. Rev. M.R. Watkinson of Ridleyville PA was the first of many to write a letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase in 1861 to promote this concept. 2 Watkinson suggested the words "God, Liberty, Law." 3 In 1863, Chase asked the Director of the Mint, James Pollock to prepare suitable wording for a motto to be used on Union coins used during the Civil War. Pollock suggested "Our Trust Is In God," "Our God And Our Country," "God And Our Country," and "God Our Trust." Chase picked to have "In God We Trust" used on some of the coins. The phrase was a subtle reminder that the Union was on the side of God regarding slavery. Congress passed legislation. Since a 1837 Act of Congress specified the mottos and devices that were to be placed on U.S. coins, it was necessary to pass another Act to enable the motto to be added. This was done on 1886-APR-22. "The motto has been in continuous use on the one-cent coin since 1909, and on the ten-cent coin since 1916. It also has appeared on all gold coins and silver dollar coins, half-dollar coins, and quarter-dollar coins struck since" 1908-JUL-1. 3
Decades later, Theodore Roosevelt disapproved of the motto. In a letter to William Boldly on 1907-NOV-11, he wrote: "My own feeling in the matter is due to my very firm conviction that to put such a motto on coins, or to use it in any kindred manner, not only does no good but does positive harm, and is in effect irreverence, which comes dangerously close to sacrilege...It is a motto which it is indeed well to have inscribed on our great national monuments, in our temples of justice, in our legislative halls, and in building such as those at West Point and Annapolis -- in short, wherever it will tend to arouse and inspire a lofty emotion in those who look thereon. But it seems to me eminently unwise to cheapen such a motto by use on coins, just as it would be to cheapen it by use on postage stamps, or in advertisements."
In 1956, the nation was suffering through the height of the cold war, and the McCarthy communist witch hunt. Partly in reaction to these factors, the 84th Congress passed a joint resolution to replace the existing motto with "In God we Trust." The president signed the resolution into law on 1956-JUL-30. The change was partly motivated by a desire to differentiate between communism, which promotes Atheism, and Western capitalistic democracies, which were at least nominally Christian. The phrase "Atheistic Communists" has been repeated so many times that the public has linked Atheism with communism; the two are often considered synonymous. Many consider Atheism as unpatriotic and "un-American" as is communism. The new motto was first used on paper money in 1957, when it was added to the one-dollar silver certificate. By 1966, "In God we Trust" was added to all paper money, from $1 to $100 denominations. 3
Most communists, worldwide, are Atheists. But, in North America, the reverse is not true; most Atheists are non-communists. Although there are many Atheistic and Humanistic legislators at the federal and state levels, few if any are willing to reveal their beliefs, because of the immense prejudice against Atheism.
During the 1950's the federal government's references to God multiplied:
The phrase "under God" was added to the otherwise secular Pledge of Allegiance. "So help me God" was added as a suffix to the oaths of office for federal justices and judges. American paper currency since 1957 has included the motto "In God We Trust." 4 The Freedom from Religion Foundation has been unable to find any other country in the world which has a religious motto on their money. 5 However, it appears that: The Dutch have had a religious motto on their money for over a century (one source says since the 18th century; an other says since 1816 CE). Coins carry the motto "God zij met ons." ("God is with us."). This motto has been carried over into the Netherlands version of the new 2 euro coin. 6,7 During the 1980's, former president Jose Sarney introduced into Brazilian paper money the phrase "Deus seja louvado" ("God be praised.") Although not a motto, many British coins contain a drawing of the queen identified as "Elizabeth II D.G. REG. F.D." This is an abbreviation of a Latin phrase which means "Elizabeth II by Grace of God Defender of the Faith." In Britain, the monarch is the head of the Church of England. Canadian coins carry the phrase "Elizabeth II D.G. Regina." She is the queen of Canada but not "Defender of the Faith," because Canada does not have a state religion for her to defend.
Is the motto constitutional? The "In God we Trust" motto promotes theistic religion at the expense of non theistic religion and a secular lifestyle. It promotes the belief in a single, male deity which is followed by the main Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam; however, it is foreign to the beliefs of many other religions: Buddhists do not believe in a personal deity; Zoroastrians and Wiccans believe in two deities; Hindus believe in many. It would seem to violate the principle of separation of church and state. Many Agnostics, Atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, other Neopagans, and others are offended by the motto. However, the religious motto has been challenged by three lawsuits and has been found to be constitutional. The courts basically found that the motto does not endorse religion.
"Aronow v. United States," 432 F.2d 242 (1970) in the United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit The court ruled that: "It is quite obvious that the national motto and the slogan on coinage and currency 'In God We Trust' has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion. Its use is of patriotic or ceremonial character and bears no true resemblance to a governmental sponsorship of a religious exercise." "Madalyn Murray O'Hair, et al. v. W. Michael Blumenthal, Secretary of Treasury, et al" 588 F.2d 1144 (1979) in the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit. Ms. O'Hair is (in)famous for successfully challenging compulsory prayer in U.S. public schools. The United States District Court, Western District of Texas, referring to the wording of the Ninth Circuit above, ruled that: "From this it is easy to deduce that the Court concluded that the primary purpose of the slogan was secular; it served as secular ceremonial purpose in the obviously secular function of providing a medium of exchange. As such it is equally clear that the use of the motto on the currency or otherwise does not have a primary effect of advancing religion." This ruling was sustained by the Fifth Circuit court. 1 The Freedom From Religion Foundation, Inc. conducted a national survey which showed that "In God We Trust" was regarded as religious by an overwhelming percentage of U.S. citizens. They initiated a lawsuit on 1994-JUN-8 in Denver CO to have it removed from U.S. paper currency and coins. They also wanted it to be discontinued as the national motto. Their lawsuit was dismissed by the district Court without trial, on the grounds that "In God We Trust" is not a religious phrase! The Tenth-Circuit federal judge confirmed the dismissal, stating in part: "...we find that a reasonable observer, aware of the purpose, context, and history of the phrase 'In God we trust,' would not consider its use or its reproduction on U.S. currency to be an endorsement of religion." 5
The U.S. Supreme Court declined to review all of these rulings. It might be embarrassing to them, because the motto also hangs on the wall at the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has commented in passing on the motto saying that: "[o]ur previous opinions have considered in dicta the motto and the pledge [of allegiance], characterizing them as consistent with the proposition that government may not communicate an endorsement of religious belief." Allegheny, 492 U.S.
Federal bill signed into law: A bill to reaffirm "In God We Trust" as the national motto, and the phrase "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance was passed with a 99% vote in the House, and unanimously in the Senate. Rep. Todd Akin, (R-MO) voted for the measure. Apparently he is unaware that the "Under God" phrase is a relatively recent addition to the Pledge. He said: "I think the Congress was expressing the fact that they support the recitation of the pledge as it has always been supported. I think they're further saying that there isn't any problem with the First Amendment." Historian David Barton, president of WallBuilders, said: "This bill has no effect on the 'Under God' controversies, because we have seen in a number of cases that when Congress does something, the Supreme Court almost feels compelled to tell them to back off and leave them alone." 8
I am surprised that we all don't agree on two sets of coins. The common ones that have the IGWT and the rare ones without the IGWT. This way everyone is happy.
Of course the ones without IGWT are so rare that the US Mint makes a little profit selling them to coin collectors and only those on PCGS web site and ebay chat room is guaranteed one of each.
The ones without IGWT will satisfy any lawsuit but they will be so rare that the athiests will not be able to get their hands on them as coin collectors will grab them all up first!
<< <i>And so you don't mind insulting those who believe differently than yourself, I see. >>
The big smiley at the end of the post should have clued you in that it was made in jest. I've stated my opinions on "Modern" vs. "Classic" coinage before, but for the record, I do not recognize a demarcation between modern and classic -- I consider coinage a continuum from ancient time through the present, with no added cachet to be assigned to any particular time period. It's all coins, and it's all wonderful.
It's unnecessary and against the principles of freedom to have our Government use tax dollars to push an endorsement of one God, that one God being trustworthy, and essentially pushing a positive spin on God. I don't think we need to have Government be in the God-spin business -- money should be all-inclusive. Also note that the God reference on money came WAY after the Founders.
24HourForums.com - load images, create albums, place ads, talk coins, enjoy the community.
<< <i>You know what I meant. I'll leave it at that. >>
Honestly, I don't know what you meant. I was just riffing on the ongoing modern vs classic discussions. However, if you were offended, I apologize. It was not my intent.
<< <i>It's unnecessary and against the principles of freedom to have our Government use tax dollars to push an endorsement of one God, that one God being trustworthy, and essentially pushing a positive spin on God. I don't think we need to have Government be in the God-spin business -- money should be all-inclusive. Also note that the God reference on money came WAY after the Founders. >>
But there is nothing in our Constitution that prevents the US Mint from making a little extra money! That is making us as coin collectors happy by issuing special edition and rare coins without the IGWT motto?
I think it's funny that so many people complain about so little. Of course that's just on of the great things about a country where you can do as you want to waste time. Maybe if Muslems take over we will have a coin with a picture of a bomb on it. I've always wondered how many of these religious complainers prayto God as they are leaving this life.
"But there is nothing in our Constitution that prevents the US Mint from making a little extra money! That is making us as coin collectors happy by issuing special edition and rare coins without the IGWT motto?"
"I think it's funny that so many people complain about so little."
I don't think it's little to the people and families of people who died in the past to preserve and protect this revolutionary system of Government -- a system revolutionary in no small degree to its unprecedented protection of us from the time-proven disaster of mixing Government with religious exclusion, preference, or indoctrination. There is nothing little about fighting for the principle of protecting freedom that calls for making sure the unprecedented Leash our Founders put on Organized Religion stays strong. In other words, while no one is dying in the streets over the motto, on principle, I must defend the desire to remove the motto since I believe the Government should not be in the One-God-Spin or Trusting God-affirmation business. I prefer America to be more inclusive when it can, and it's unnecessary to put that on money as if we all agree on it (which we don't).
The motto, which was not added or approved by the Founders, would be just as troublesome on principle had it been "God is just a possibility" or "There is only one God" or "We all trust one God" or "Your Government says you should believe in God."
24HourForums.com - load images, create albums, place ads, talk coins, enjoy the community.
<< <i>No to sound ignorant or biased but if America is mostly muslim, then it wont be America. Newdow is a loon, it will never happen. America wont be hijacked by clowns like him >>
>>
ATHEISIM - Brought to you by......Communists, Socialists, the ACLU, liberal extremists, and the New World Order. I have to agree that this Newdow person is a real nut-job, like most of his kind. I remember some years ago in my old hometown of Bourbonnais, IL when the town had a navitity scene on city property and a nut-job like the one mentioned here raised a bid stink about it and him and a few of his chums were protesting. Someone stoped their car, got out, and punch the nut-job in the face, and drove off . I have to say, amen!
DORAN COINS - On Facebook, Instagram, X (formerly Twitter), & www.dorancoins.net - UPCOMING SHOWS (tentative dates)- 10/8/2023 - Fairfield, IL, 11/5/2023 - Urbana, IL., 12/3/2023 - Mattoon, IL.
<< <i> ATHEISIM - Brought to you by......Communists, Socialists, the ACLU, liberal extremists, and the New World Order. I have to agree that this Newdow person is a real nut-job, like most of his kind. I remember some years ago in my old hometown of Bourbonnais, IL when the town had a navitity scene on city property and a nut-job like the one mentioned here raised a bid stink about it and him and a few of his chums were protesting. Someone stoped their car, got out, and punch the nut-job in the face, and drove off . I have to say, amen! >>
One time on TV I saw a Taliban man beating women out in the street with a big stick because they didn't have their faces completely covered or whatever ...
<< <i> ATHEISIM - Brought to you by......Communists, Socialists, the ACLU, liberal extremists, and the New World Order. I have to agree that this Newdow person is a real nut-job, like most of his kind. I remember some years ago in my old hometown of Bourbonnais, IL when the town had a navitity scene on city property and a nut-job like the one mentioned here raised a bid stink about it and him and a few of his chums were protesting. Someone stoped their car, got out, and punch the nut-job in the face, and drove off . I have to say, amen! >>
Yep, gotta love those peace-loving Christians.
Incidentally, it IS appropriate to have IGWT, simply because money represents what organized religion is all about.
If you asked the average person what phrases are on all our money, E Pluribus Unum and In God We Trust would not be mentioned by half the people in this country.....
Ya have to love the liberal wacks what they know they can't get done by a vote they try and get the courts to over turn.....
Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
I believe it should be kept on money, but will not cry if it is not. Pleasing everyone is impossible.
Side Rant:
I find it more offensive that the government spends money translating DMV manuals, mass printing them, and distributing them to people who do not speak English. I am not a racist or do not look down on people who speak other languages. But to spend millions of dollars translating a DMV manual into Spanish is rediculous. If that person does not speak English, they should not be allowed to drive. They will be a hazard on the road. When they are pulled over by an English-speaking cop, a translater will need to be called and meanwhile waste even more money. The money could be put to much better uses such as helping the homeless, sick, retired, and disabled.
If 95% of the population believes in "God" and 5% does not, then maybe 5% of the coins minted should have something different on them. How about this :
<< <i>Clever idea except that Darwin himself believed in God. >>
That may be true (I don't know). But "Darwinism" is all about the evolution of species on their own without any intervention by "intelligent" forces.
The other day I saw a car with one of those emblems that has a big "Truth" fish swallowing a smaller "Darwin" fish. The point being that the "truth" is bigger than Darwin. That may be true. But I also think it is ironic that, in a way, the emblem proved Darwin's point - that bigger fish evolve to eat smaller fish.
The founders would be appalled to see the slogan on currency. Not because it isn't factual but because it is highly inappropriate. While I'd agree that taking it off for political correctness is terrible, putting it on was wrong and many good people dropped the ball to allow it to happen.
Most of the Arabic coins have various inscriptions about Allah and death and this motto puts us at about the same political level.
Some posts to this thread refer to "punka** atheists".
I don't like being called a punk a**, just because I don't believe in the myths that so many others do believe in. I wouldn't call myself Liberal, or conservative. But see merit in each point of view, or I would be on one side on one issue and the other side on another issue.
As far as the topic of the thread goes, I don't mind having the IGWT motto on our money. It does not say THE BEARER OF THIS MONEY, coin currancy, or what ever, trusts in god.
If it were changed to "IN LOVE WE TRUST" Some would think we were taken over by a 60s hippie movement.
Or "IN HATE WE TRUST" taken over by the KKK.
Neither would be a good thing.
(Old man) Look I had a lovely supper, and all I said to my wife was, “That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah”.
(Priest) BLASPHEMY he said it again, did you hear him?
<<i think in an effort to be all inclusive, once the state quarters series is done we should do a "motto series" to be all inclusive.
1st month: IGWT 2: IN Allah we trust 3: In Yahweh we trust 4: In satan we trust 5: In elvis we trust 6: We trust ourselves 7: We trust nobody 8: In Flying spaghetti monster we trust>> .....
<< <i>That may be true (I don't know). But "Darwinism" is all about the evolution of species on their own without any intervention by "intelligent" forces. >>
Darwin's theory states that evolution progressed without intervention. What is so rarely stated is that Darwin himself believed that the process of evolution and "beginning" was brought about by God and intelligent design. According to Darwin, God started the process of evolution.
There is a simple solution If you don't like it don't own it. You can get by in the world today without cash. Just think of it as suffering for your cause.
If I was half as smart as I am dumb Iwould be a genious
<< <i><< Bong or not, this is already happening in France. If population trends continue as they are, France will be a Muslim nation in 50 years. The world changes... >>
The good citizens of the Untied States and their second amendment will not let happen to us what is currently happening to the French. >>
What are we going to do, shoot any American who decides to convert to Islam?
<< <i>If an internal war were to erupt in this country between Muslims and Americans I have no doubt we would take the day. >>
In an internal war the Muslims would BE Americans. So who is this "we" that would take the day?
<< <i>ATHEISIM - Brought to you by......Communists, Socialists, the ACLU, liberal extremists, and the New World Order. >>
Atheism is considerably older than that. By at least a couple thousand years.
<< <i>I have to agree that this Newdow person is a real nut-job, like most of his kind. I remember some years ago in my old hometown of Bourbonnais, IL when the town had a navitity scene on city property and a nut-job like the one mentioned here raised a bid stink about it and him and a few of his chums were protesting. Someone stoped their car, got out, and punch the nut-job in the face, and drove off . I have to say, amen! >>
Ah the same attitude held by the anti-gays, the anti-civil rights, anti-sufferagettes, anti-abolishinists etc. If some minority gets "uppity" and dares to protest for their point of view. Beat them back into submission. Tell me Michael, is there no minority group at all with which you identify? And if their is, how would you feel to see someone saying "amen" to the idea of beating you up because you dare to hold true to that group?
<< <i>But to spend millions of dollars translating a DMV manual into Spanish is rediculous. If that person does not speak English, they should not be allowed to drive. They will be a hazard on the road. When they are pulled over by an English-speaking cop, a translater will need to be called and meanwhile waste even more money. The money could be put to much better uses such as helping the homeless, sick, retired, and disabled. >>
The problem there is that English is not the official language in this country. Until it is, requests for information in any language are equally valid and if refused are grounds for discrimination suits
After all, In direct violation of of the constitution we have chosen not to back our money by Gold anymore and we are spending and printing as fast as we can.
So whoever accepts this coinage needs to "trust in God" because the US government isn't going to make it good.
<< <i>After all, In direct violation of of the constitution we have chosen not to back our money by Gold anymore >>
The Constitution makes no requirement that our money be backed by gold or silver. It only prohibits the STATES from making anything but gold or silver a legal tender. There is no such prohibition against the federal government.
"The Constitution makes no requirement that our money be backed by gold or silver. It only prohibits the STATES from making anything but gold or silver a legal tender. There is no such prohibition against the federal government."
The principle and wisdom remains the same, and there was no Federal Mint at the time of Ratification.
24HourForums.com - load images, create albums, place ads, talk coins, enjoy the community.
There was alot of things that we have today that where not around at the time of the Constitution but new things are still be put to the Constitutionality test.....
Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
People...get real...get out and play your wives/husbands and kids/grandkids. This is ridiculous. If the motto is removed do you really think YOU will have any input in the decision. It's like people in their neighborhoods getting killed over houses they don't even own...they rent. Nothing wrong with people who rent. Take a vacation, hug your loved one...but get a grip. Life is too short to worry about IGWT. Personally, keep the motto. Don't give the Mint the chance to rip YOU off again.
"There are two types of people in the world. Those that do the work and those that take the credit. Try to be in the first group, there is less competition there" - Ghandi
Comments
The name is LEE!
More than you wanted to know, but...
THE U.S. NATIONAL MOTTOS:
Their history & constitutionality
The original national motto: "E Pluribus Unum"
The original motto of the United States was secular. "E Pluribus Unum" is Latin for "One from many" or "One from many parts." It refers to the welding of a single federal state from a group of individual political units -- originally colonies and now states.
On 1776-JUL-4, Congress appointed John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson to prepare a design for the Great Seal of the United States. The first design, submitted to Congress on 1776-AUG-10 used the motto "E Pluribus Unum." It was rejected. Five other designs also failed to meet with Congress' approval during the next five years. In 1782, Congress asked Mr. Thomson, Secretary of Congress, to complete the project. Thomson, along with a friend named Barton, produced a design that was accepted by Congress on 1782-JUN-10. It included an eagle with a heart-shaped shield, holding arrows and an olive branch in its claws. The motto "E Pluribus Unum" appeared on a scroll held in its beak. The seal was first used on 1782-SEP-16. It was first used on some federal coins in 1795. 1
The replacement motto: "In God We Trust:"
Almost a century and a half ago, 11 Protestant denominations mounted a campaign to add references to God to the U.S. Constitution and other federal documents. Rev. M.R. Watkinson of Ridleyville PA was the first of many to write a letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase in 1861 to promote this concept. 2 Watkinson suggested the words "God, Liberty, Law." 3 In 1863, Chase asked the Director of the Mint, James Pollock to prepare suitable wording for a motto to be used on Union coins used during the Civil War. Pollock suggested "Our Trust Is In God," "Our God And Our Country," "God And Our Country," and "God Our Trust." Chase picked to have "In God We Trust" used on some of the coins. The phrase was a subtle reminder that the Union was on the side of God regarding slavery. Congress passed legislation. Since a 1837 Act of Congress specified the mottos and devices that were to be placed on U.S. coins, it was necessary to pass another Act to enable the motto to be added. This was done on 1886-APR-22. "The motto has been in continuous use on the one-cent coin since 1909, and on the ten-cent coin since 1916. It also has appeared on all gold coins and silver dollar coins, half-dollar coins, and quarter-dollar coins struck since" 1908-JUL-1. 3
Decades later, Theodore Roosevelt disapproved of the motto. In a letter to William Boldly on 1907-NOV-11, he wrote: "My own feeling in the matter is due to my very firm conviction that to put such a motto on coins, or to use it in any kindred manner, not only does no good but does positive harm, and is in effect irreverence, which comes dangerously close to sacrilege...It is a motto which it is indeed well to have inscribed on our great national monuments, in our temples of justice, in our legislative halls, and in building such as those at West Point and Annapolis -- in short, wherever it will tend to arouse and inspire a lofty emotion in those who look thereon. But it seems to me eminently unwise to cheapen such a motto by use on coins, just as it would be to cheapen it by use on postage stamps, or in advertisements."
In 1956, the nation was suffering through the height of the cold war, and the McCarthy communist witch hunt. Partly in reaction to these factors, the 84th Congress passed a joint resolution to replace the existing motto with "In God we Trust." The president signed the resolution into law on 1956-JUL-30. The change was partly motivated by a desire to differentiate between communism, which promotes Atheism, and Western capitalistic democracies, which were at least nominally Christian. The phrase "Atheistic Communists" has been repeated so many times that the public has linked Atheism with communism; the two are often considered synonymous. Many consider Atheism as unpatriotic and "un-American" as is communism. The new motto was first used on paper money in 1957, when it was added to the one-dollar silver certificate. By 1966, "In God we Trust" was added to all paper money, from $1 to $100 denominations. 3
Most communists, worldwide, are Atheists. But, in North America, the reverse is not true; most Atheists are non-communists. Although there are many Atheistic and Humanistic legislators at the federal and state levels, few if any are willing to reveal their beliefs, because of the immense prejudice against Atheism.
During the 1950's the federal government's references to God multiplied:
The phrase "under God" was added to the otherwise secular Pledge of Allegiance.
"So help me God" was added as a suffix to the oaths of office for federal justices and judges.
American paper currency since 1957 has included the motto "In God We Trust." 4 The Freedom from Religion Foundation has been unable to find any other country in the world which has a religious motto on their money. 5 However, it appears that: The Dutch have had a religious motto on their money for over a century (one source says since the 18th century; an other says since 1816 CE). Coins carry the motto "God zij met ons." ("God is with us."). This motto has been carried over into the Netherlands version of the new 2 euro coin. 6,7
During the 1980's, former president Jose Sarney introduced into Brazilian paper money the phrase "Deus seja louvado" ("God be praised.")
Although not a motto, many British coins contain a drawing of the queen identified as "Elizabeth II D.G. REG. F.D." This is an abbreviation of a Latin phrase which means "Elizabeth II by Grace of God Defender of the Faith." In Britain, the monarch is the head of the Church of England. Canadian coins carry the phrase "Elizabeth II D.G. Regina." She is the queen of Canada but not "Defender of the Faith," because Canada does not have a state religion for her to defend.
Is the motto constitutional?
The "In God we Trust" motto promotes theistic religion at the expense of non theistic religion and a secular lifestyle. It promotes the belief in a single, male deity which is followed by the main Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam; however, it is foreign to the beliefs of many other religions: Buddhists do not believe in a personal deity; Zoroastrians and Wiccans believe in two deities; Hindus believe in many. It would seem to violate the principle of separation of church and state. Many Agnostics, Atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, other Neopagans, and others are offended by the motto. However, the religious motto has been challenged by three lawsuits and has been found to be constitutional. The courts basically found that the motto does not endorse religion.
"Aronow v. United States," 432 F.2d 242 (1970) in the United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit The court ruled that: "It is quite obvious that the national motto and the slogan on coinage and currency 'In God We Trust' has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion. Its use is of patriotic or ceremonial character and bears no true resemblance to a governmental sponsorship of a religious exercise."
"Madalyn Murray O'Hair, et al. v. W. Michael Blumenthal, Secretary of Treasury, et al" 588 F.2d 1144 (1979) in the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit. Ms. O'Hair is (in)famous for successfully challenging compulsory prayer in U.S. public schools. The United States District Court, Western District of Texas, referring to the wording of the Ninth Circuit above, ruled that: "From this it is easy to deduce that the Court concluded that the primary purpose of the slogan was secular; it served as secular ceremonial purpose in the obviously secular function of providing a medium of exchange. As such it is equally clear that the use of the motto on the currency or otherwise does not have a primary effect of advancing religion." This ruling was sustained by the Fifth Circuit court. 1
The Freedom From Religion Foundation, Inc. conducted a national survey which showed that "In God We Trust" was regarded as religious by an overwhelming percentage of U.S. citizens. They initiated a lawsuit on 1994-JUN-8 in Denver CO to have it removed from U.S. paper currency and coins. They also wanted it to be discontinued as the national motto. Their lawsuit was dismissed by the district Court without trial, on the grounds that "In God We Trust" is not a religious phrase! The Tenth-Circuit federal judge confirmed the dismissal, stating in part: "...we find that a reasonable observer, aware of the purpose, context, and history of the phrase 'In God we trust,' would not consider its use or its reproduction on U.S. currency to be an endorsement of religion." 5
The U.S. Supreme Court declined to review all of these rulings. It might be embarrassing to them, because the motto also hangs on the wall at the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has commented in passing on the motto saying that: "[o]ur previous opinions have considered in dicta the motto and the pledge [of allegiance], characterizing them as consistent with the proposition that government may not communicate an endorsement of religious belief." Allegheny, 492 U.S.
Federal bill signed into law:
A bill to reaffirm "In God We Trust" as the national motto, and the phrase "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance was passed with a 99% vote in the House, and unanimously in the Senate. Rep. Todd Akin, (R-MO) voted for the measure. Apparently he is unaware that the "Under God" phrase is a relatively recent addition to the Pledge. He said: "I think the Congress was expressing the fact that they support the recitation of the pledge as it has always been supported. I think they're further saying that there isn't any problem with the First Amendment." Historian David Barton, president of WallBuilders, said: "This bill has no effect on the 'Under God' controversies, because we have seen in a number of cases that when Congress does something, the Supreme Court almost feels compelled to tell them to back off and leave them alone." 8
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
Whether you believe in God or not is your perogative but for those of us that DO believe, do you really think it matters to Him whether
or not His Name is on money? Now REEALLLY. That's a good one.
<< <i>Stupid question: When was the National motto established? Anybody know? >>
relayer has a very lengthy answer, but the direct answer to your question is: 1956.
<< <i>Flamino, the motto first appeared on the two-cent piece in 1864. >>
Yes, I know. That wasn't the question that was asked.
Of course the ones without IGWT are so rare that the US Mint makes a little profit selling them to coin collectors and only those on PCGS web site and ebay chat room is guaranteed one of each.
The ones without IGWT will satisfy any lawsuit but they will be so rare that the athiests will not be able to get their hands on them as coin collectors will grab them all up first!
<< <i>The common ones that have the IGWT and the rare ones without the IGWT. This way everyone is happy. >>
I think you've hit upon something: the ultimate definition of Modern Crap™ -- anything with IGWT is Modern Crap™
<< <i>
<< <i>The common ones that have the IGWT and the rare ones without the IGWT. This way everyone is happy. >>
I think you've hit upon something: the ultimate definition of Modern Crap™ -- anything with IGWT is Modern Crap™
And so you don't mind insulting those who believe differently than yourself, I see.
<< <i>And so you don't mind insulting those who believe differently than yourself, I see. >>
The big smiley at the end of the post should have clued you in that it was made in jest. I've stated my opinions on "Modern" vs. "Classic" coinage before, but for the record, I do not recognize a demarcation between modern and classic -- I consider coinage a continuum from ancient time through the present, with no added cachet to be assigned to any particular time period. It's all coins, and it's all wonderful.
<< <i>You know what I meant. I'll leave it at that. >>
Honestly, I don't know what you meant. I was just riffing on the ongoing modern vs classic discussions. However, if you were offended, I apologize. It was not my intent.
this discussion on if the motto should go or not seems something like that.
i really like the early coins. so rough and edgy. they had personality.
the new nickel is just pathetic. does it really matter if the motto
was removed from that butt ugly coin?
the whole kit and kaboodle should be given to individuals to redesign after
studying the history of US coinage.
motto no motto. pfft. i like it better without when it comes to old coins.
<< <i>It's unnecessary and against the principles of freedom to have our Government use tax dollars to push an endorsement of one God, that one God being trustworthy, and essentially pushing a positive spin on God. I don't think we need to have Government be in the God-spin business -- money should be all-inclusive. Also note that the God reference on money came WAY after the Founders. >>
But there is nothing in our Constitution that prevents the US Mint from making a little extra money! That is making us as coin collectors happy by issuing special edition and rare coins without the IGWT motto?
<< <i>I think it's funny that so many people complain about so little. >>
Define little.
"I think it's funny that so many people complain about so little."
I don't think it's little to the people and families of people who died in the past to preserve and protect this revolutionary system of Government -- a system revolutionary in no small degree to its unprecedented protection of us from the time-proven disaster of mixing Government with religious exclusion, preference, or indoctrination. There is nothing little about fighting for the principle of protecting freedom that calls for making sure the unprecedented Leash our Founders put on Organized Religion stays strong. In other words, while no one is dying in the streets over the motto, on principle, I must defend the desire to remove the motto since I believe the Government should not be in the One-God-Spin or Trusting God-affirmation business. I prefer America to be more inclusive when it can, and it's unnecessary to put that on money as if we all agree on it (which we don't).
The motto, which was not added or approved by the Founders, would be just as troublesome on principle had it been "God is just a possibility" or "There is only one God" or "We all trust one God" or "Your Government says you should believe in God."
<< <i>
<< <i>No to sound ignorant or biased but if America is mostly muslim, then it wont be America. Newdow is a loon, it will never happen. America wont be hijacked by clowns like him >>
ATHEISIM - Brought to you by......Communists, Socialists, the ACLU, liberal extremists, and the New World Order. I have to agree that this Newdow person is a real nut-job, like most of his kind. I remember some years ago in my old hometown of Bourbonnais, IL when the town had a navitity scene on city property and a nut-job like the one mentioned here raised a bid stink about it and him and a few of his chums were protesting. Someone stoped their car, got out, and punch the nut-job in the face, and drove off
CG
<< <i>
ATHEISIM - Brought to you by......Communists, Socialists, the ACLU, liberal extremists, and the New World Order. I have to agree that this Newdow person is a real nut-job, like most of his kind. I remember some years ago in my old hometown of Bourbonnais, IL when the town had a navitity scene on city property and a nut-job like the one mentioned here raised a bid stink about it and him and a few of his chums were protesting. Someone stoped their car, got out, and punch the nut-job in the face, and drove off
One time on TV I saw a Taliban man beating women out in the street with a big stick because they didn't have their faces completely covered or whatever ...
I don't see athiests beating up people.
<< <i>
ATHEISIM - Brought to you by......Communists, Socialists, the ACLU, liberal extremists, and the New World Order. I have to agree that this Newdow person is a real nut-job, like most of his kind. I remember some years ago in my old hometown of Bourbonnais, IL when the town had a navitity scene on city property and a nut-job like the one mentioned here raised a bid stink about it and him and a few of his chums were protesting. Someone stoped their car, got out, and punch the nut-job in the face, and drove off
Yep, gotta love those peace-loving Christians.
Incidentally, it IS appropriate to have IGWT, simply because money represents what organized religion is all about.
Ya have to love the liberal wacks what they know they can't get done by a vote they try and get the courts to over turn.....
Side Rant:
I find it more offensive that the government spends money translating DMV manuals, mass printing them, and distributing them to people who do not speak English. I am not a racist or do not look down on people who speak other languages. But to spend millions of dollars translating a DMV manual into Spanish is rediculous. If that person does not speak English, they should not be allowed to drive. They will be a hazard on the road. When they are pulled over by an English-speaking cop, a translater will need to be called and meanwhile waste even more money. The money could be put to much better uses such as helping the homeless, sick, retired, and disabled.
<< <i>[
ATHEISIM - Brought to you by......Communists, Socialists, the ACLU, liberal extremists, and the New World Order. >>
RELIGION - Brought to you by... Sexual Deviants!
<< <i>Clever idea except that Darwin himself believed in God. >>
That may be true (I don't know). But "Darwinism" is all about the evolution of species on their own without any intervention by "intelligent" forces.
The other day I saw a car with one of those emblems that has a big "Truth" fish swallowing a smaller "Darwin" fish. The point being that the "truth" is bigger than Darwin. That may be true. But I also think it is ironic that, in a way, the emblem proved Darwin's point - that bigger fish evolve to eat smaller fish.
isn't factual but because it is highly inappropriate. While I'd agree that taking it off
for political correctness is terrible, putting it on was wrong and many good people
dropped the ball to allow it to happen.
Most of the Arabic coins have various inscriptions about Allah and death and this
motto puts us at about the same political level.
I don't like being called a punk a**, just because I don't believe in the myths that so many others do believe in.
I wouldn't call myself Liberal, or conservative. But see merit in each point of view, or I would be on one side on one issue and the other side on another issue.
As far as the topic of the thread goes, I don't mind having the IGWT motto on our money. It does not say THE BEARER OF THIS MONEY, coin currancy, or what ever, trusts in god.
If it were changed to "IN LOVE WE TRUST" Some would think we were taken over by a 60s hippie movement.
Or "IN HATE WE TRUST" taken over by the KKK.
Neither would be a good thing.
(Priest) BLASPHEMY he said it again, did you hear him?
Franklin wasn't an atheist, like Jefferson, Washington and others he was a Deist.
Adolf Hitler
<< <i>Some of our Founding Fathers were atheists. Ben Franklin comes to mind.
Franklin wasn't an atheist, like Jefferson, Washington and others he was a Deist. >>
I thought he was a FREEMASON
(Priest) BLASPHEMY he said it again, did you hear him?
<<i think in an effort to be all inclusive, once the state quarters series is done we should do a "motto series" to be all inclusive.
1st month: IGWT
2: IN Allah we trust
3: In Yahweh we trust
4: In satan we trust
5: In elvis we trust
6: We trust ourselves
7: We trust nobody
8: In Flying spaghetti monster we trust>>
.....
9: In God We Trust, Everbody Else Pays Cash
<< <i>That may be true (I don't know). But "Darwinism" is all about the evolution of species on their own without any intervention by "intelligent" forces. >>
Darwin's theory states that evolution progressed without intervention. What is so rarely stated is that Darwin himself believed that the process of evolution and "beginning" was brought about by God and intelligent design. According to Darwin, God started the process of evolution.
In Greenspan We Trust
.... for everyone else, there's Master Card, and I mean MASTER
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i><< Bong or not, this is already happening in France. If population trends continue as they are, France will be a Muslim nation in 50 years. The world changes... >>
The good citizens of the Untied States and their second amendment will not let happen to us what is currently happening to the French. >>
What are we going to do, shoot any American who decides to convert to Islam?
<< <i>If an internal war were to erupt in this country between Muslims and Americans I have no doubt we would take the day. >>
In an internal war the Muslims would BE Americans. So who is this "we" that would take the day?
<< <i>ATHEISIM - Brought to you by......Communists, Socialists, the ACLU, liberal extremists, and the New World Order. >>
Atheism is considerably older than that. By at least a couple thousand years.
<< <i>I have to agree that this Newdow person is a real nut-job, like most of his kind. I remember some years ago in my old hometown of Bourbonnais, IL when the town had a navitity scene on city property and a nut-job like the one mentioned here raised a bid stink about it and him and a few of his chums were protesting. Someone stoped their car, got out, and punch the nut-job in the face, and drove off . I have to say, amen! >>
Ah the same attitude held by the anti-gays, the anti-civil rights, anti-sufferagettes, anti-abolishinists etc. If some minority gets "uppity" and dares to protest for their point of view. Beat them back into submission. Tell me Michael, is there no minority group at all with which you identify? And if their is, how would you feel to see someone saying "amen" to the idea of beating you up because you dare to hold true to that group?
<< <i>But to spend millions of dollars translating a DMV manual into Spanish is rediculous. If that person does not speak English, they should not be allowed to drive. They will be a hazard on the road. When they are pulled over by an English-speaking cop, a translater will need to be called and meanwhile waste even more money. The money could be put to much better uses such as helping the homeless, sick, retired, and disabled. >>
The problem there is that English is not the official language in this country. Until it is, requests for information in any language are equally valid and if refused are grounds for discrimination suits
After all, In direct violation of of the constitution we have chosen not to back our money by Gold anymore and we are spending and printing as fast as we can.
So whoever accepts this coinage needs to "trust in God" because the US government isn't going to make it good.
<< <i>After all, In direct violation of of the constitution we have chosen not to back our money by Gold anymore >>
The Constitution makes no requirement that our money be backed by gold or silver. It only prohibits the STATES from making anything but gold or silver a legal tender. There is no such prohibition against the federal government.
The principle and wisdom remains the same, and there was no Federal Mint at the time of Ratification.
Aerospace Structures Engineer