Question about 1836 Pattern Gold Dollar.

DickyBetz

I was looking through the USpatterns.com website and found this design. It looks very similar to the second picture which is MrD's medal with a very similar design. My question is; why was this design never used on any circulating US coinage? It must have been popular enough because here are two examples of it. Why was it never used. I think it looks pretty cool. Comments?

lathmach

Coinage is supposed to convey a message.
The arrows in the eagles sinister claws, and the olive branch in the other for instance, mean we hold out the offer of peace first, but if you don't go for a peaceful offer, we'll give you a war.
So what message does this gold dollar, with one of Santa Claus's elfs stocking hat on it convey?

Ray

nwcs

<< <i>So what message does this gold dollar, with one of Santa Claus's elfs stocking hat on it convey >>

Great line! Yeah, it looks more like a chucky cheese token than a coin.

RYK

So what message does this gold dollar, with one of Santa Claus's elfs stocking hat on it convey?

The Phrygian cap was used as a symbol of Liberty during the French Revolution and in the early US.* I personally like the design and considered purchasing such a coin last year.






(*It is also an anatomic variant of the gallbladder seen occasionally by ultrasound and not to be confused with pathology.)

FatMan

<< <i>So what message does this gold dollar, with one of Santa Claus's elfs stocking hat on it convey? >>

Most of the folks around here seem to like that same stocking cap on these.



I'm pretty sure the message is the same - LIBERTY

DaveG

Here's an idea:

You're James Longacre, Chief Engraver of the Mint, and it's 1849. You get asked to design a gold dollar. Are you going to use one of your own designs, thereby ensuring your immortality or are you going to go through the Mint's archives to find a design that's 13 years old and was designed by someone else? (By the way, you've been in the job for five years and this is your first chance to design a circulating coin.)

What to do? What to do?

RKKay

This was the first gold dollar pattern. The design was also used on a trime pattern 14 years later.

Hoot

Gobrecht's design was borrowed from the Mexico 2 real piece that had employed the Phrygian cap since 1825 (I believe). Some Mexican pattern pieces don the motif and date to 1823. I'm sure that the cap with rays design did not originate there, but I do not know where to point. As mentioned, the motif is ancient, and early designers of U.S. coinage were keen on its employment.

I like the design of the 1836 gold dollar, but find the palm frond of the reverse a bit unusual, albeit graceful.

Hoot

MrEureka

The design was also used on a trime pattern 14 years later.

Actually, the 1850 trime was struck before the 1836 gold dollar imaged in the thread.

Hoot

Andy - I'm aware that there are originals with coin alignment and restrikes with the same and also with medallic turn and at least one with a 36/59 overdate that give it clearly away. What about the coin pictured gives it away as a restrike?

Hoot

MrEureka

What about the coin pictured gives it away as a restrike?

Look closely at the reverse.

PerryHall

It looks to be struck over a 1859 gold $1.

Baley

somebody show a picture of the Mexican peso coins with the hat and rays on it.

Hoot

<< <i>What about the coin pictured gives it away as a restrike?

Look closely at the reverse. >>



Thank you sir! The overdate is obvious now.

Hoot

BillJones

1. Most business strike U.S. coins have a human face on them. The only exceptions have been the Two Cent Piece, and the Silver Three Cent Piece. Coins that don't have a human face have usually be pretty unpopular.

2. This design was borrowed from Mexican coins. As such it did have any originality going for it.

3. The then director of the mint, Robert Patterson was very much opposed to the gold dollar because he viewed tiny gold coins like that to be unbecoming to the image to the U.S. His opposition helped to kill the idea of a gold dollar in the 1830s and early 1840s. When the coin did come into being, James Longacre used the same liberal head design for the gold dollar and the $20 gold piece.

PerryHall

<< <i>1. Most business strike U.S. coins have a human face on them. The only exceptions have been the Two Cent Piece, and the Silver Three Cent Piece. Coins that don't have a human face have usually be pretty unpopular.
. >>



Don't forget the shield nickel.