1984 Donruss Baseball - the unofficial but legal thread

ArnyVee

<< <i>Here's what I consider the toughest. 3 through 10 could be listed differently, but you get the idea..............

1 - 480 Youngblood
2 - 23 Schmidt dk steele
3 - 16 M. Young dk steele
4 - dave dravecky steele
5 - 482 Fitzgerald
6 - dk checklist steele
7 - 637 Moreno
8 - lance parrish steele
9 - 537 Chambliss
10 - 547 McGraw >>



Those are tough for sure!

For me personally, I'd put Bob Horner in there somewhere. But, those are the toughest for sure.

Ichiro51fan

Interesting list... I was surprised not to see #218 Lynn & #219 Rogers there however. Niether have a 10 & the Lynn only 3 9's and Rogers only 4 9's.

Anyway, that's based solely on the numbers, and that's not necessarily the best way to assess "toughness". Case in point, look at some of the low pop 9's that have sold for good $$$ recently:
#637 Moreno - $36 (9 9's/2 10's)
#239 Bowa - $27 (13/3)
#70 Hrbek - $24 (22/1)

Yet, these 9's that appear to be much tougher based on the pop #s went for much less:
#175 Wilson - $4 (10/0)
#218 Lynn - $4 (3/0)!!
#437 Whitt - $4 (5/1)
#441 Swan - $4 (5/1)
#545 Garcia - $4 (9/0)
#550 Hume - $4 (10/0)

It just boggles my mind that a PSA-9 Lynn (1 of 3) could go for $4, yet the Moreno... with 3x the 9's and two 10's goes for 9 times as much! Obviously, it depends on timing and who is bidding, but that just seems like too much of a flex factor to me. I wonder if the same thing is going here that occurs with the '72 Topps in regard to perceived rarity. Like with the Foli IA and Murcer IA for instance. Apparently, they used to be 2 of the toughest cards in the set. Now I don't think they're even top 20 but still command huge premiums. You guys think that's what's going on with the Moreno/Bowa/Hrbek's?

sagard

Hrbek is very popular in Minnesota. I'm guessing you got two fighting for it.

BrentR

If there is a #218 Lynn that sold for $4.00 I'd like to see it. #218 is Dave Beard. Lynn is #108. PSA has four #218 Lynn's being graded, but I figure it's just PSA's error. Doesn't make sense.

Good catch on #219 Rogers though! That is definitely on the list! I haven't found a decent one yet! #590 Bud Anderson is also in my top 5 toughest if I had to make a list. Just horrible centering! There is one 10 and 3 9's. That one 10 must have been a miracle. Nothing I've found is close! AAAHH!!!

My recent miracles are a 9 on the #23 Schmidt Steele, 9 #637 Moreno, 2 9's on the Horner, 9 on #15 Parrish steele, and the three one of one 10's.

I happen to own the only 10 on the Hrbek card, but there is no logic on the other cards you list as to price. I'm the idiot who paid $103 for the the Mcgraw 9. I know the 637 has creases on almost all the cards, so the percieved value is greater. I paid the $36 dollars for it, and would have paid a lot more. I ended up getting a 9 myself later though. The only explanation for the others is that the right person who needed those cards weren't looking at the right time. We all know that one guy really wanting a card is great, but two really wanting one is where the prices get scary! lol

BrentR

I have emailed PSA about the mysterious #218 Lynn.

ArnyVee

Oh, that's right! Steve Rogers is another tough one and Bud Anderson took me awhile to find centered as well. Both would be on my top 10-15 list as well.

The ones with a little higher pop on the 9s could be ones resubmitted to try and get those tough 10s on those cards and it only "looks" like the pop is higher because of that. That's my logic at least.

BrentR

Nice call Arny. Absolutely true. I only wish there was a way to have true pop reports. Short of something crazy like marking the cards like PSA/DNA, it's impossible. Oh well. All of the cards we are talking about are extremely tough and very few people in the hobby have them.
With all that said, I wonder what percentage of '84 D wax and factory sets have been opened at this point?

ArnyVee

Couldn't even fathom a guess at the total cracked percentage of wax/factory sets. I have a couple (maybe three, I think) factory sets left untouched at this point.

Another one that is kind of tough to get in MINT or better shape is that Keith Hernandez card. There's one in the 'store' section of eBay for those of you looking to add a quality card to your set for cheap. Someone has it listed for $5.99! That's a steal for that card, IMO. Here's the link PSA 9 K.Hernandez

It doesn't look as nice as Jim's Hernandez which had a legitimate chance at a 10 on a resub. But, it's a 9 nonetheless of a tough card.

I just added a Gary Roenicke PSA 10 to my set, but nothing new lately. Anyone got any cards coming in or adding to their sets soon?

BrentR

That is a steal. I didn't have that Hernandez card at all until my recent sub I got a 9. Tough card. Someone should pick it up quick.
And I only have a small sub out that probably won't get back any time soon. Only a couple of shots at 10, most 9's or worse just to fill out set.

tkd7

<< <i>Anyone got any cards coming in or adding to their sets soon? >>



I opened a bunch of wax packs at the National and got around to sending the best ones in for grading, three 8s, three 9s, two 10s.
Here are the 10s

Clemaz

That Hernandez card sold with a best offer of $3.00.

BugOnTheRug

.

ArnyVee

WOW! That's another tough one....that Soto is a beauty!

I love that Gwynn card obviously (see my sig line! ), but the Soto is a tough one to find centered. Is that Soto for sale?

BrentR

Yeah, that's only the second 10 on that Soto! Very nice.

ArnyVee

<< <i>That Hernandez card sold with a best offer of $3.00. >>



WOW...talk about a great steal. That's a tough card to find in good condition.

ArnyVee

Since my printer/scanner is working finally....here are a couple recent 10s that I picked up and another Schmidt 10 that I picked up pretty cheap.

Spahnfan

Wow! Very nice cards guys. Speaking of tough cards, I am surprised that no one listed

#442 Brusstar,
#482 Fitzgerald,
#502 Dipino,
#536 Tabler, and
#544 Darwin as tough cards.

I found these just as difficult as Anderson, Rogers, Swan, and McGraw.

ArnyVee

<< <i>Wow! Very nice cards guys. Speaking of tough cards, I am surprised that no one listed

#442 Brusstar,
#482 Fitzgerald,
#502 Dipino,
#536 Tabler, and
#544 Darwin as tough cards.

I found these just as difficult as Anderson, Rogers, Swan, and McGraw. >>



Good point sir! Yes, the Fitz and Darwin cards have been tough for me. I got lucky and won Brusstar, Dipino and Tabler pretty early. So, I haven't tried to find my own on those so I didn't know how tough they were really. But, I pulled a 9 on my own sub for the Fitz and although I won a Darwin card, I never got it because the seller had some issues and had already sold it or something. So, I included one in my sub which has a shot at a 10, but will probably come out as a 9...I'm hoping.

Sometimes, you just never know how the graders will be on those factory cards. Sometimes they are more lenient than other times. The factory cards have a little less border on them which used to get lots of 'not min size'. I haven't heard many complaints lately, which leads me to believe that they understand the differences now.

Spahnfan

Do you think they have a better understanding of the round corners on some the factory cards due to the celophane wrapping than they did before, or have the graders been consistent about this for the last year or so. Many times I have hasitated to send in factory cards because of some rounding of the corners. Brent, you say you have had very good results. How accurate have your predictions on the grades for submissions been compared to what the grade turned out to be?

ArnyVee

Nearly all of the ones that I sent in are PSA 10s in my book. That is, aside from the Youngbloods, Horners & M.Wilcox cards that I'm hoping will pull at least 9s for me.

The last time that I sent in '84 Donruss cards, I ended up with an average of a 9. Dravecky DK Steele was an 8, Ron Guidry 10 and the rest were all 9s. I thought that all of them had shots at 10s aside from the Dravecky Steele that I was hoping would pull a 9 at least. So, I really put these through several passes before settling on them. We'll see.

ArnyVee

....there has been a trade.

The ArnyVee '84 Donruss set team has acquired the rights to the Mario Soto PSA 10!

Thanks go to Tom who agreed to a fair trade!

Ichiro51fan

Congrats on getting that Soto Arny... it's a beauty!

Speaking of beauties (shameless plug)... I just listed #135 Kevin Hickey PSA-10 1 of 2. I'm not sure who owns the other 10, but I didn't see it in the top 10 current registries for this set. Anyway, I'm quite sure several board members will be interested in this card, so here's the link for your convenience:

#135 K. Hickey PSA-10

Happy holidays to everyone!

ArnyVee

Good luck with that Hickey card Jim! Should be some nice competition to pick that one up, I would assume.

I just took all of my dupes and placed them into the registry so that anyone that is putting together the set can see them. There are a few 10s in there, but a few 8s that I had previously upgraded (mostly in the DKs). My dupes are rated the 8th current set right now!

Here's the link....ArnyVee's Sell/Trade Set!

BrentR

I's say I have been fairly accurate, but I'm realistic. I think the grades were pretty true with few exceptions. The corners weren't rounded from the cellophane. They were really sharp. I was very careful opening them, and had some clean sets.

BrentR

Arny, I'm still interested in trading for your DK checklist 9. I saw you put it on your trade set. I still want to trade/buy it from you after you get your sub and see what I have that you need. Thanks!

BrentR

Spahnfan, what would you take for your Dipino 9 and DK checklist 10 if I don't have the Horner to throw in? Do you want something else you need in trade, or cash?

BrentR

Sorry guys, I've been off the thread because I got married! Sorry I missed out on that Soto! lol But hopefully I'll get caught up on what's going on. Merry Christmas all!

Ichiro51fan

Same back at you Bren... and congrats on the marriage! Hey, maybe you could tell your wife you want the Hickey PSA-10 for Christmas?

Merry Christmas to all!

BrentR

Yeah! sounds like a great idea! lol

By the way, with your name being Ichirofan, do you collect his cards as well?

ArnyVee

Brent, the DK Checklist Steele card is still yours. Just put it in my set to keep track of what I currently have.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Ichiro51fan

page turn...

Ichiro51fan

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Spahnfan

Brent, Other than the Horner, the cards I need are also the cards you need. I do have a submission in to PSA right now. I should wait and see what the results are, then maybe I will need other cards.

I also have a 21 Steel in a 9 for you to keep in mind if we do wind up trading something.

BrentR

Spahnfan, sounds good. I do need that card too. If we can work a trade, that would be great. If you'd rather have cash, just let me know.

alnavman

HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE!!!!!

BrentR

You too Al!!

BrentR

Just got my sub email back. I scored 9 on the #21 Parrish Steel DK, 219 Rogers(1/4 with no 10's!), 502 Dipino(1/6 with no 10's!), 590 Anderson(1/4 with 1 10!) Tough Cards!!!!

Only scored 8 on the Steele DK checklist again, and 9OC on the Steel.

But I'm gonna miss out for now on being able to register 100% when it arrives because they mislabled the #21 DK "Steele"!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAHHHH!!!!!
I've sent back SO many cards for this it's ridiculous!! Doesn't matter what you write, they can't get them all right!

Anyway, I will still need upgrades on my DKCL's, but will have the whole set registered soon once I resub the 21 DK.

Spahnfan

Great jog. Nice grades on those tough cards. Those should have brought a nice smile. Were those factory cards or regular issue (other than the steel)? I would like to see the rest of the sub, so list it when you get a chance.

BrentR

Thanks man. Yeah, I was pretty happy. Other than two Steel cards, they were all factory cards. I threw in a few more cards trying to upgrade, but mostly got 8's and 9oc's on the rest. But with the $5 holiday special, it was easier to take a chance.

BrentR

upsalaallamerican strikes again! He paid $150+, $180, and $180 for three low pop 10's. There is no outbidding this guy.

Piman58

<< <i>upsalaallamerican strikes again! He paid $150+, $180, and $180 for three low pop 10's. There is no outbidding this guy. >>



He does seem to have deep pockets. He probably does have a limit, but there may not be anyone willing to find out how high that
limit might be.

BrentR, Good luck in your future bidding battles with upsalaallamerican

BrentR

Thanks man, I'll need it! lol

Ichiro51fan

Yeah, I feel your pain in regards to upsala... seems like he may not have a limit on these cards but who knows. $180 for the 1/1 wasn't shocking but $180 for the 1/2 Lake surprised me a bit. It seems like he is willing to go up to at least the $200 mark. pjpmint has also put in a lot of action on these cards but looks like his limit is closer to $100 (or under). He's the current high bidder on the 1/2 Hickey 10 I have up but I suspect there are a couple of snipes set that will wipe that out by tomorrow. Only has 4 watchers though which is a bit concerning.

Good job on your sub results btw... I've got a Rogers & Wilson in now that look to be in the 10 range, which probably means they will end up with a 9. I've got a bunch more low pop condidates that I was going to try and get in for the $5 special but time is running out and I don't want to rush it.

ArnyVee

Wow, good job on those Brent! Sorry about the problem with the Parrish....PSA makes so many mistakes on those DKs.

I'm waiting for my sub to pop. When it does, I'll have my MASTER set complete as well!

I have a few toughies in my pop, all with real shots at 10s (aside from the Horner #535 & Youngblood cards that are hopefully at least 9s!).....here's the list....

4 John Castino STEELE
14 Bob Horner STEELE
19 Jim Clancy
118 Bill Caudill
170 Rick Manning
180 Richard Dotson
187 Greg Minton
199 Ken Dayley
209 Bobby Ramos
210 Al Bumbry
230 Doug Decinces
236 Atlee Hammaker
237 Mike Caldwell
260 Dave Rucker
282 Tom Paciorek
435 Ed Nunez
436 Bobby Castillo
444 Mike Easler
466 John Wathan
471 Milt Wilcox
480 Joel Youngblood
486 Bryan Oelkers
488 LaMarr Hoyt
489 Joe Nolan
490 Marshall Edwards
491 Mike Laga
507 Pascual Perez
522 Tom Burgmeier
524 Bobby Clark
528 Ed Whitson
531 Jerry Royster
535 Bob Horner
539 Alan Ashby
544 Danny Darwin
546 Vance Law
561 Garth Iorg
564 Vern Ruhle
571 Dane Iorg
597 Luis Sanchez
605 Alfredo Griffin

....there are a few with 2 being submitted and 3 of the Youngblood & A.Griffin cards each. So, I have my fingers crossed!

BrentR

Good luck on those Arny! I'm sure with your eye, you'll get 9's and 10's. Hopefully an extra Youngblood 9! It will be fun to have the complete set, won't it!!!

That's a really tough list! If you score 9's or better, you are doing REALLY well!

alnavman

Good luck Arny.....

al.

jayhawke

If you were submitting for 10's, is it worth submitting any card with a pop already 7 or higher? These would not be for my set. Also I was going through the DK and noticed the Perez-Steel on the back. Which is more difficult the Steel or Steele?

ArnyVee

The STEELE version of the cards seem harder to find because they were only in the factory sets.

As far as POP 7s or above, I wouldn't take the chance on sending them in. Unless they are star or even minor star cards, the serious PSA collectors of this set probably have the commons that are POP 7 or above.

Thanks for the good luck wishes on my sub guys!

BrentR

I agree with Arny. If they are pop 7 or higher, most of us have them. You'd have to really be sure you'd get a 10 and you'd have to send it in on a bulk 100 card plus sub to make even that worth it.

BrentR

You're welcome Ichirofan, I just made upsalaallamerican pay $180 for the Hickey. lol I should have bid more just to see where his ceiling is. Man, he is annoying! lol He literally bids with one second left every time. Oh well, at least you got good money from him.