Nice coin. Looks VF20/25 to me and original. I believe it is a BB161 (Bolender 11). It is one of the two 1799 "berryless" varieties, having no berries on the branch held in the eagle's talon. Bowers estimates 400-750 examples of this variety exist in VF to EF condition.
Paul: One other thing-take a look at the "third side" of your coin, the edge, since it's a raw coin. Occasionally, the edge lettering is screwed up on bust dollars (letters missing, words overlapping) which can add a little interest and value....
I likes it. Nice color, and as stated, it has proly been cleaned at some point, but who cares, it's over 200 years old, circulated, and you can still see details. Would look good in my Dansco.
How much more enjoyable is it to hold a coin like that in your hand instead of having to look at it through a piece of plastic? Plus you get to see the edge lettering, which is very cool on early coinage.
Given your images, I'd say that PCGS undergraded the coin by one step. It's tough to make those judgements without the coin in-hand, however. Still, the coin has VF20 "meat" but since other factors play in the judgement of grading, I'd value whatever added comments you may have about the coin as you look at it critically in-hand. (Color and old hairlines may never show rightly in a photo, but are readily seen in-hand.) Someone mentioned the third side of the coin, and that's am important aspect of these pieces, as edge bumps play a significant role and can easily cause the loss of a grade. All-in-all, the coin in a 15 holder is not an insult, and it might be considered a PQ 15 and sell for VF money when you turn it, eventually. It can be harder to sell a PQ coin in any given grade, since most idiots don't pay attention to such things and only look at the holder. Hold forth, however, and be pleased that the coin is well protected for the time being. (Makes you want an F18 grade, eh?)
Hoot
From this hour I ordain myself loos'd of limits and imaginary lines. - Whitman
Does this coin even need to be in a holder? This bust dollar looks great raw. Don't understand why there is a need to have the professional services grade a nice circulated dollar coin like this.
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I'd grade that Bust Dollar as VF-30, and would be glad to offer it for sale. It is well above average. I has a nice original look to it.
One really has to grade this coin by the obverse and disregard the weakness in the wings on the reverse. That weakness is due to the large die break.
Fine-15? Yea, you got stiffed. That slab was one step above a body bag.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>Does this coin even need to be in a holder? >>
I prefer to have a coin like this in a holder. All it takes is one bit of mishandling and BAM, you have a rim ding or a scratch. It's a whole lot less stressful showing this coin to other people without worrying if they will drop it on the floor or not. Of course it is also easier calling it a VF without that pesky PCGS F15 label attached.
You should have cleaned and scrubbed it up first, then you'd have gotten your VF. Just making that assumption based on the majority of coins I see on the market these days.
nice coin. As much as there is a need for TPG, this coin has a powerful look that speaks for itself. F15 as a grade? Well, I'll buy this coina as an F15 ... at F15 money.
Ever wonder if the Charles II, James II, William III, Queen Anne, George I and II CROWNS are tougher to get that Bust dollars in EF and AU grades?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>You should have cleaned and scrubbed it up first, then you'd have gotten your VF. Just making that assumption based on the majority of coins I see on the market these days. >>
And I have a belt sander that you can borrow if you want
I think PCGS is a little hard on draped bust coins. In the mean time I will keep this bust dollar in the F15 holder. As they say "buy the coin....not the holder".
Comments
I'm sure it's been cleaned in the past.
Edited to say, I guess it's been lightly cleaned in the past.
Any other grade guesses?
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Interesting die crack caused some strike weakness on the eagle's wings.
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Plus you get to see the edge lettering, which is very cool on early coinage.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Looks to have better detail than a 12. >>
Which is probably why they graded it 15.
Russ, NCNE
Hoot
<< <i>You got stiffed™.
Russ, NCNE >>
The same thing happened with an 1801 bust dollar my dealer has. We pegged it as VF20, he sent it to PCGS and it came back an F15.
One really has to grade this coin by the obverse and disregard the weakness in the wings on the reverse. That weakness is due to the large die break.
Fine-15? Yea, you got stiffed. That slab was one step above a body bag.
<< <i>Does this coin even need to be in a holder? >>
I prefer to have a coin like this in a holder. All it takes is one bit of mishandling and BAM, you have a rim ding or a scratch. It's a whole lot less stressful showing this coin to other people without worrying if they will drop it on the floor or not. Of course it is also easier calling it a VF without that pesky PCGS F15 label attached.
I think you own the best PCGS F15 there is!
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<< <i>I think you own the best PCGS F15 there is! >>
<< <i>I think you own the best PCGS F15 there is! >>
Thanks relayer. The down side to that is I paid VF money for it.
Ever wonder if the Charles II, James II, William III, Queen Anne, George I and II CROWNS are tougher to get that Bust dollars in EF and AU grades?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>You should have cleaned and scrubbed it up first, then you'd have gotten your VF. Just making that assumption based on the majority of coins I see on the market these days. >>
And I have a belt sander that you can borrow if you want
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
So is this 1807 half that happens to be , coincidentally, certified by PCGS as F15 also
on the other hand, I've seen scrubbey dubby coins with maybe a bit more details hanging around in VF20 holders.
opinions vary..
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I think PCGS is a little hard on draped bust coins. In the mean time I will keep this bust dollar in the F15 holder. As they say "buy the coin....not the holder".