<< <i> As far as SGC not selling well, A) SGC material often outsells equally graded PSA cards and Not everyone who gets a card graded is in it for a profit. >>
You bring up contrasting points, trying to point out how SGC outsells PSA cards, then 'not everyone who gets a card graded is in it for a profit'? huh?
You aren't going to find many SGC graded high dollar vintage cards, as that market is dominated (rightfully so) by PSA. If you want the most dollar on a vintage card, you get it graded by PSA.
SGC is good because competition is always good, but to say they are anywhere near approaching PSA in terms of market share is laughable.
Ax I'm cornfuzed? Yes, same Mantle. But one's a 7 and the other is an 8? Not sure I see your point on the comparison? Don't ya gotta compare a 7 with a 7?
The reason I choose SGC is a cosmetic reason. I simply HATE how PSA presents their cards. There's nothing better than crossing a PSA t206 or Goudey from an (in my opinion) atrocious PSA holder into a beautiful SGC holder. It's a matter of preference, and I hope PSA will get out of the stone age and change their holders (and elminate stupid membership fees).
Obviously this debate will rage on and on. People can throw out numbers and stats and we wont get anywhere. The bottom line is that when someone presents a graded card that is completely misgraded, there is no defense. A "certified and trained" professional grader (as thebighurt would say) should get it right every time. If I did something wrong at work, I'd sure as heck have to make it right AND I'd still be in on the carpet explaining it. In a customer service type industry such as this, they should get it right or make it right EVERY TIME.
Just curious. Do collectors who use PSA go to the forums at SGC, Beckett, etc. and tell them that PSA is better than their grader of choice? If we do, I wish we would stop.
It will be very interesting to see what the final hammer price is. If SGC is perceived to be PSA's equal, the SGC 92 should trade at a higher price. We'll see in a week.
These arguments have been going on for a long time, with better and more colorful debaters.
PSA is by far the most dominant and creative grading company of the bunch, SGC and GAI as well as BGS have tried incredibly hard and have only managed to carve a dent in some particular niche markets.
PSA has been leading the hobby with ideas such as autograph authentication (psa/dna) and interactive breakthroughts such as the set registry.
GAI did come up with pack grading, so they have that, what has SGC done exactly? Nothing, they simply copy whatever PSA does.
Card dealers are in it for the money, most of the stuff they sell its in PSA holders, if they they could ge more money in another slab, then they would go hurry and cross them over.
Stars and rare cards will sell well regardless of the holder, I want someone to try to make a profit selling commons in something than a PSA holder.
I happen to really dislike SGC's holder ( and i have more than a few) its very bulky and the black insert looks like a trap for my card. Green really?
PSA holder its pratical and quite plain. Its your basic holder. I like that, that card will make the impact, not the holder.
"Women should be obscene and not heard. " Groucho Marx
Usually when a PSA vs whoever thread comes up you will notice a lot of new posters and other posters whose ID's are mostly used for PSA bashing.
Its old and lame...Both companies have their pros and cons. I have cards from both companies and have yet to ever crack one out...I bought the card, not an investment or a grading ideaology...I just buy the darn card.
"Women should be obscene and not heard. " Groucho Marx
<< <i>These arguments have been going on for a long time, with better and more colorful debaters.
PSA is by far the most dominant and creative grading company of the bunch, SGC and GAI as well as BGS have tried incredibly hard and have only managed to carve a dent in some particular niche markets.
PSA has been leading the hobby with ideas such as autograph authentication (psa/dna) and interactive breakthroughts such as the set registry.
GAI did come up with pack grading, so they have that, what has SGC done exactly? Nothing, they simply copy whatever PSA does.
Card dealers are in it for the money, most of the stuff they sell its in PSA holders, if they they could ge more money in another slab, then they would go hurry and cross them over.
Stars and rare cards will sell well regardless of the holder, I want someone to try to make a profit selling commons in something than a PSA holder.
I happen to really dislike SGC's holder ( and i have more than a few) its very bulky and the black insert looks like a trap for my card. Green really?
PSA holder its pratical and quite plain. Its your basic holder. I like that, that card will make the impact, not the holder. >>
In the end it's neither here nor there. I'm not going to lose sleep because I prefer SGC and another person likes PSA. There are a lot more important things in the world to worry about than slabbing. For my personal collection I will keep them in a SGC holder, and if I need to sell I'll crossover. Personally, I'm of the opinion that PSA started the innovations, SGC is perfecting them. However, if you disagree with me fine, it's your collection
<< <i> GAI did come up with pack grading, so they have that, what has SGC done exactly? Nothing, they simply copy whatever PSA does. >>
Calleocho,
I think SGC was a leader in a few specific categories: 1. 1/2 grades. I would consider this pretty big. GAI copied this and PSA has struggled with the ideas for years. 2. Customer inserts vs. condoms. PSA had to copy. 3. Contrasting insert. GAI had to copy this. 4. The area around the corners being open. GAI copied. 5. The card does not move. This is a significan weakpoint for PSA. 6. The guarantee. Still unmatched. 7. Focus on customer service. Still unmatched. 8. Variety of cards graded. Tall boys, redmans etc. This has been duplicated by others over time
What SGC has absolutely sucked at and are essentially copying at this point are: 1. Set registry 2. Magazine 3. Card autographs. 4. New product offerings (pack grading, memorabillia, tickets etc.)
Basically very poort at marketing and business development.
And IMO the SGC was the better looking of the two based on eye appeal i.e. centering
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>These debates have gone on for years on these boards, and as every year passes, SGC's market share continues to decline.
I wish them the best, but at this point, they're going to need much more than just wishful thinking ... >>
Got any evidence for this assertion? Went to the Chantilly show in Virginia a month ago. Amongst the 1952-earlier crowd PSA cards could not be found. SGC cards were in abundance, with a smattering of GAI. If people choose to ignore SGC's presense than so be it. SGC is a top-notch company, that offers a very nice product. It fills an important niche for the pre-war crowd.
Ok so at a show you saw alot of SGC cards. Where do most of us do most of our business? I'll venture a guess and say ebay. Now compare auction numbers for PSA cards to cards being auctioned by GAI, SGC, GAI.....
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
There's always some keyword spamming going on, so this isn't precise, but here's a quick and dirty look at the global yardsale this morning:
24,378 PSA cards on eBay 5,666 BGS/BVG cards on eBay 2,353 GAI cards on eBay 1,144 SGC cards on eBay
By the way, fully one-third of the Beckett cards (1,804) are graded 9.5, for those who still question whether the company has loosened its standards since getting a new owner in January. As for the once-impossible grade of BGS 10, you can choose from 176 of them this morning.
<< <i>There's always some keyword spamming going on, so this isn't precise, but here's a quick and dirty look at the global yardsale this morning:
24,378 PSA cards on eBay 5,666 BGS/BVG cards on eBay 2,353 GAI cards on eBay 1,144 SGC cards on eBay
By the way, fully one-third of the Beckett cards (1,804) are graded 9.5, for those who still question whether the company has loosened its standards since getting a new owner in January. As for the once-impossible grade of BGS 10, you can choose from 176 of them this morning. >>
Wow. Any questions?
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
When I spoke with MJ Roop I asked them about their new partnership with SGC. They informed me that the VAST number of SGC collectors want to hang on to their cards for personal collections and that is why they will be catering more archival products to them. PSA members are more apt to throw their cards on to e-bay after slabbing. Those e-bay numbers are hardly suprising.
<< <i>There's always some keyword spamming going on, so this isn't precise, but here's a quick and dirty look at the global yardsale this morning:
24,378 PSA cards on eBay 5,666 BGS/BVG cards on eBay 2,353 GAI cards on eBay 1,144 SGC cards on eBay
By the way, fully one-third of the Beckett cards (1,804) are graded 9.5, for those who still question whether the company has loosened its standards since getting a new owner in January. As for the once-impossible grade of BGS 10, you can choose from 176 of them this morning. >>
Wow. Any questions? >>
Yes Jeff I'm not big on statistics but the data has to be normalized to insure we're talking apples with apples.
What do I mean? SGC is a niche operation and doesn't attract submissions across the board.
I would recommend we get data from SGC on what year groups the cards are submitted and compare with that of PSA. I'm going to take a guess - if if we compare the data properly, it's possible that you won't find that the 24 to 1 ratio holds?
Moreover, Wolfman is probably correct on their shrinking market share - however, they are on a marketing campaign to improve their position.
Having said that - I like PSA but for certain year groups, the SGC holder looks way better!
As Wolf said - this is a cyclical discussion. PSA rules the roost...but there's plenty of room in the hen house for SGC, GAI and Beckett.
Finally, SGC would do well to attempt to attract people who want "authentication" without caring about liquidating in the near future. Play up to the need for customer service that "protects" the feeling and interests of the little guy - something that's hard to do with a larger company without good leadership.
If anyone feels that PSA is not holding their end of the bargain up with respect to customer service - call them out on it! Big corps are doing more every day to make people more loyal. These guys are not dummies - they just look that way!
I would recommend we get data from SGC on what year groups the cards are submitted and compare with that of PSA. I'm going to take a guess - if if we compare the data properly, it's possible that you won't find that the 24 to 1 ratio holds?
Such a year by year comparison would then be subjected to the weighty influence of extreme outliers which would cause an entirely different misperception (e.g., a rabid SGC collector from a given year could unduly influence your interpretation if you are trying to make inferences about the general market). If the issue is overall use, then an across the board comparison is the only way to go. If the issue is use by year, then you are correct Mike. In other words, the 24 to 1 ratio will certainly hold if the referent is the ebay market (which I believe it was). It may very well not if the referent is something otherwise.
For the record, I don't think PSA gives big customers special treatment in terms of grading (at least not intentionally).
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>When I spoke with MJ Roop I asked them about their new partnership with SGC. They informed me that the VAST number of SGC collectors want to hang on to their cards for personal collections and that is why they will be catering more archival products to them. PSA members are more apt to throw their cards on to e-bay after slabbing. Those e-bay numbers are hardly suprising. >>
I agree that PSA is where you get your post-1948 card graded for maximum market value, though I am sure some SGC enthusiasts would object. If you just want the card for your collection and don't think you'll ever need to sell it, SGC is a fine choice.
I don't hesitate to buy SGC cards. I like their slab and I like their grading, with only a few quibbles (I have some with PSA as well). SGC usually crosses well to PSA, and the difference in price usually makes it worthwhile. The exception is that SGC sometimes doesn't subtract enough for bad centering, so a poorly centered SGC 86 (7.5) might cross to a PSA 8 (oc), which is worth PSA 6 in the registry and usually on the market. You have to look at centering carefully, if you're thinking of crossing to PSA. You don't want to lose a point and a half on centering.
I have quite a few SGC cards that I don't need in PSA form for my registries, most of them pre-war. I think SGC gets closer to PSA in value, and can even exceed it, the further back you go in time. Cards before 1948, I usually don't bother crossing to PSA unless it's for a registry set. Those sell just fine in SGC holders. I wouldn't be surprised if SGC's steady customers are mostly pre-war collectors.
In my opinion, overall SGC is the best option after PSA, and I want them to do well so that PSA stays on its toes.
I will not hesitate to buy an SGC or GAI card to crossover to PSA. The value is good and the few I have kept in my collection are fine. I for one hate the SGC slab. It is too big and not very attractive. Besides PSA I like GAI's slab the best. You still get the gasket but it is the same size as a PSA slab and you have the description along the top edge.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
I will repeat again that many people use SGC for their personal collections, so you will not see a lot of them on e-bay.
James, I believe you when you say this. Still, there are at least as many people who use PSA for their personal collections as well (including myself). Ebay is just being used as an indirect comparison tool here to reflect choice of grading company.
The exception is that SGC sometimes doesn't subtract enough for bad centering, so a poorly centered SGC 86 (7.5) might cross to a PSA 8 (oc), which is worth PSA 6 in the registry and usually on the market. You have to look at centering carefully, if you're thinking of crossing to PSA.
The cards I've seen in their newer holders look fine as far as centering is concerned. As far as crossovers, try crossing over some low end psa 9's (like the finest refractor that was posted in another thread or even some that are more reasonable) with another company and see how many 7's and 8's you get. Unless you've also cracked out psa cards and sent them elsewhere, you can't compare grading services based on crossover results.
If that were true we would be getting more 1-2 grade bumps when crossing out of these other holders into PSA.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>I will repeat again that many people use SGC for their personal collections, so you will not see a lot of them on e-bay.
James, I believe you when you say this. Still, there are at least as many people who use PSA for their personal collections as well (including myself). Ebay is just being used as an indirect comparison tool here to reflect choice of grading company. >>
I use PSA for my personal colelction as well. Just to poke a hole in the entire thread. LOOK at the popularity of the PSA set registry as opposed to the SGC registry. I actually have not looked at the SGC registry, but I am 99.99999999% there are not 15615 sets registered, be it 15000 have one card...lol
<< <i>Everyone used to drive Chevys and Fords also
The classics are still worth a lot but Detroit can't build a car that will hold value now
For all you homers, I hope the registry keeps you warm and cozy .
I have no ax to grind....this site was first I've looked at...and I've checked the competition.
Check out my thread on "Top Notch Customer Service"
PSA and all of you just don't get it...Quality and Service will prevail....especially when the market leader is arrogant.
Check out the Yankees........ >>
It's your collection and your money do with them what you want. I won't stop you. But the history and the research doesn't lie.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>Everyone used to drive Chevys and Fords also
The classics are still worth a lot but Detroit can't build a car that will hold value now >>
Any new car loses value the minute you drive it off the lot. Bad analogy.
<< <i> For all you homers, I hope the registry keeps you warm and cozy . >>
But wait, I thought that the reason there weren't so many SGC cards on the registry is because that so many more people use SGC slabs for their personal collection?
<< <i> I have no ax to grind.... >>
Yes you do....you try to bash PSA and say how much better SGC is. You do have an axe to grind.
<< <i> PSA and all of you just don't get it...Quality and Service will prevail....especially when the market leader is arrogant. >>
Quality and Service is what I get from PSA every time...and they wouldn't be the market leader if they didn't.
<< <i>On My Way...thanks for the advice...although it was quite evident that that is the proper direction
I work in the present and plan for the future....
I've seen enough on this forum to convince me that "Houston, we have a problem"
Denial is great!!!
Then Anger (Traces of that everywhere in this forum)
Fear is Next!!! Then depression....
Maybe confronting the issue at that point, maybe not
Y'all have a ways to go....GOOD LUCK >>
Cleve Give me a break! No one died, the world didn't come to end, the President of the US is alive and kicking, we still have power and water, the internet is up....
Aren't you being just a bit dramatic? I like SGC and I like PSA - no one is necessarily in denial - people are just choosing their product and endorsing it over your top choice.
Your wonderful site just canned my thread about the service I received...that's all I can judge by as a customer...not your blather.
IF I DON"T LIKE WHAT I HEAR, I'LL JUST TAKE MY BALL AND GO HOME, AFTER MY LACKEYS BERATE ANYONE WHO HAS AN OPINION OTHER THAN MINE...and WE PULL THE THREAD
Maybe I'll be BANNED...OH MY...........
Quite professional......
ADVICE....Wise men don't need it and fools don't heed it
Those issues need to be addressed with customer service not with us. We can't help you they can. Now move along.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Comments
<< <i>
As far as SGC not selling well, A) SGC material often outsells equally graded PSA cards and
>>
You bring up contrasting points, trying to point out how SGC outsells PSA cards, then 'not everyone who gets a card graded is in it for a profit'? huh?
As far as the 'outsells' PSA:
1963 Mantle SGC 84 - $109.57
Same Mantle - $360.99
You aren't going to find many SGC graded high dollar vintage cards, as that market is dominated (rightfully so) by PSA. If you want the most dollar on a vintage card, you get it graded by PSA.
SGC is good because competition is always good, but to say they are anywhere near approaching PSA in terms of market share is laughable.
-Al
I'm cornfuzed? Yes, same Mantle. But one's a 7 and the other is an 8? Not sure I see your point on the comparison?
Don't ya gotta compare a 7 with a 7?
mike
<< <i>I guess I am confused? isn't 82 an 8? or am I wrong? >>
It be a 7 dude. I believe someone did an extensive check on SGC vs. PSA - apples to apple thing but don't remember the result?
SGC 88 is an 8.
mike
<< <i> they should get it right or make it right EVERY TIME. >>
And SGC never makes a mistake? You never see them because they just don't have the high dollar cards in the quantities that PSA does.
Just because you don't agree with a particular grade doesn't make it wrong.
Question, if you are such an ardent anti-PSA guy, why are you here?
http://www.mastronet.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot Information&LotIndex=51000&CurrentRow=1
http://www.mastronet.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot Information&LotIndex=51010&CurrentRow=1
It will be very interesting to see what the final hammer price is. If SGC is perceived to be PSA's equal, the SGC 92 should trade at a higher price. We'll see in a week.
PSA is by far the most dominant and creative grading company of the bunch, SGC and GAI as well as BGS have tried incredibly hard and have only managed to carve a dent in some particular niche markets.
PSA has been leading the hobby with ideas such as autograph authentication (psa/dna) and interactive breakthroughts such as the set registry.
GAI did come up with pack grading, so they have that, what has SGC done exactly? Nothing, they simply copy whatever PSA does.
Card dealers are in it for the money, most of the stuff they sell its in PSA holders, if they they could ge more money in another slab, then they would go hurry and cross them over.
Stars and rare cards will sell well regardless of the holder, I want someone to try to make a profit selling commons in something than a PSA holder.
I happen to really dislike SGC's holder ( and i have more than a few) its very bulky and the black insert looks like a trap for my card. Green really?
PSA holder its pratical and quite plain. Its your basic holder. I like that, that card will make the impact, not the holder.
Groucho Marx
<< <i>Do collectors who use PSA go to the forums at SGC, Beckett, etc. and tell them that PSA is better than their grader of choice? >>
Well put jr.
My Auctions
51 bowman Mays PSA 8
51 bowman Mays SGC 92 (8.5)
edited to add: I think the PSA will sell higher because it has better centering and IMO better eye appeal.
My Auctions
Stingray
Its old and lame...Both companies have their pros and cons. I have cards from both companies and have yet to ever crack one out...I bought the card, not an investment or a grading ideaology...I just buy the darn card.
Groucho Marx
<< <i><< they should get it right or make it right EVERY TIME. >> >>
This is the only guy who "gets it right everytime" - unfortunately.
mike
Stingray
<< <i>Here are kenny's links
51 bowman Mays PSA 8
51 bowman Mays SGC 92 (8.5)
edited to add: I think the PSA will sell higher because it has better centering and IMO better eye appeal. >>
Or because it's PSA?
Of note, the PSA 8 does have a diamond-cut to it, to a small degree. I also think the PSA 8 will outsell the SGC 8.5 by 15-25%.
But definitely auctions to watch.
<< <i>These arguments have been going on for a long time, with better and more colorful debaters.
PSA is by far the most dominant and creative grading company of the bunch, SGC and GAI as well as BGS have tried incredibly hard and have only managed to carve a dent in some particular niche markets.
PSA has been leading the hobby with ideas such as autograph authentication (psa/dna) and interactive breakthroughts such as the set registry.
GAI did come up with pack grading, so they have that, what has SGC done exactly? Nothing, they simply copy whatever PSA does.
Card dealers are in it for the money, most of the stuff they sell its in PSA holders, if they they could ge more money in another slab, then they would go hurry and cross them over.
Stars and rare cards will sell well regardless of the holder, I want someone to try to make a profit selling commons in something than a PSA holder.
I happen to really dislike SGC's holder ( and i have more than a few) its very bulky and the black insert looks like a trap for my card. Green really?
PSA holder its pratical and quite plain. Its your basic holder. I like that, that card will make the impact, not the holder. >>
In the end it's neither here nor there. I'm not going to lose sleep because I prefer SGC and another person likes PSA. There are a lot more important things in the world to worry about than slabbing. For my personal collection I will keep them in a SGC holder, and if I need to sell I'll crossover. Personally, I'm of the opinion that PSA started the innovations, SGC is perfecting them. However, if you disagree with me fine, it's your collection
<< <i>
GAI did come up with pack grading, so they have that, what has SGC done exactly? Nothing, they simply copy whatever PSA does. >>
Calleocho,
I think SGC was a leader in a few specific categories:
1. 1/2 grades. I would consider this pretty big. GAI copied this and PSA has struggled with the ideas for years.
2. Customer inserts vs. condoms. PSA had to copy.
3. Contrasting insert. GAI had to copy this.
4. The area around the corners being open. GAI copied.
5. The card does not move. This is a significan weakpoint for PSA.
6. The guarantee. Still unmatched.
7. Focus on customer service. Still unmatched.
8. Variety of cards graded. Tall boys, redmans etc. This has been duplicated by others over time
What SGC has absolutely sucked at and are essentially copying at this point are:
1. Set registry
2. Magazine
3. Card autographs.
4. New product offerings (pack grading, memorabillia, tickets etc.)
Basically very poort at marketing and business development.
"2. Customer inserts vs. condoms. PSA had to copy.
3. Contrasting insert. GAI had to copy this. "
What do you mean by "insert" and "condoms"?
the contrasting insert, I think, is the black gasket that SGC uses.
Steve
These debates have gone on for years on these boards,
and as every year passes, SGC's market share continues to decline.
I wish them the best, but at this point, they're going to need much more than just wishful thinking ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
SGC 84 1954 Red Heart Mantle
PSA 7 1954 Red Heart Mantle
And IMO the SGC was the better looking of the two based on eye appeal i.e. centering
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>These debates have gone on for years on these boards,
and as every year passes, SGC's market share continues to decline.
I wish them the best, but at this point, they're going to need much more than just wishful thinking ...
Got any evidence for this assertion? Went to the Chantilly show in Virginia a month ago. Amongst the 1952-earlier crowd PSA cards could not be found. SGC cards were in abundance, with a smattering of GAI. If people choose to ignore SGC's presense than so be it. SGC is a top-notch company, that offers a very nice product. It fills an important niche for the pre-war crowd.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
24,378 PSA cards on eBay
5,666 BGS/BVG cards on eBay
2,353 GAI cards on eBay
1,144 SGC cards on eBay
By the way, fully one-third of the Beckett cards (1,804) are graded 9.5, for those who still question whether the company has loosened its standards since getting a new owner in January. As for the once-impossible grade of BGS 10, you can choose from 176 of them this morning.
<< <i>There's always some keyword spamming going on, so this isn't precise, but here's a quick and dirty look at the global yardsale this morning:
24,378 PSA cards on eBay
5,666 BGS/BVG cards on eBay
2,353 GAI cards on eBay
1,144 SGC cards on eBay
By the way, fully one-third of the Beckett cards (1,804) are graded 9.5, for those who still question whether the company has loosened its standards since getting a new owner in January. As for the once-impossible grade of BGS 10, you can choose from 176 of them this morning. >>
Wow. Any questions?
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>
<< <i>There's always some keyword spamming going on, so this isn't precise, but here's a quick and dirty look at the global yardsale this morning:
24,378 PSA cards on eBay
5,666 BGS/BVG cards on eBay
2,353 GAI cards on eBay
1,144 SGC cards on eBay
By the way, fully one-third of the Beckett cards (1,804) are graded 9.5, for those who still question whether the company has loosened its standards since getting a new owner in January. As for the once-impossible grade of BGS 10, you can choose from 176 of them this morning. >>
Wow. Any questions? >>
Yes Jeff
I'm not big on statistics but the data has to be normalized to insure we're talking apples with apples.
What do I mean? SGC is a niche operation and doesn't attract submissions across the board.
I would recommend we get data from SGC on what year groups the cards are submitted and compare with that of PSA. I'm going to take a guess - if if we compare the data properly, it's possible that you won't find that the 24 to 1 ratio holds?
Moreover, Wolfman is probably correct on their shrinking market share - however, they are on a marketing campaign to improve their position.
Having said that - I like PSA but for certain year groups, the SGC holder looks way better!
As Wolf said - this is a cyclical discussion. PSA rules the roost...but there's plenty of room in the hen house for SGC, GAI and Beckett.
Finally, SGC would do well to attempt to attract people who want "authentication" without caring about liquidating in the near future. Play up to the need for customer service that "protects" the feeling and interests of the little guy - something that's hard to do with a larger company without good leadership.
If anyone feels that PSA is not holding their end of the bargain up with respect to customer service - call them out on it! Big corps are doing more every day to make people more loyal. These guys are not dummies - they just look that way!
mike
Such a year by year comparison would then be subjected to the weighty influence of extreme outliers which would cause an entirely different misperception (e.g., a rabid SGC collector from a given year could unduly influence your interpretation if you are trying to make inferences about the general market). If the issue is overall use, then an across the board comparison is the only way to go. If the issue is use by year, then you are correct Mike. In other words, the 24 to 1 ratio will certainly hold if the referent is the ebay market (which I believe it was). It may very well not if the referent is something otherwise.
For the record, I don't think PSA gives big customers special treatment in terms of grading (at least not intentionally).
PSA 193
SGC 17
GAI 14
BGS/BVG 3
Singles 1930-1939
PSA 144
SGC 52
GAI 24
BGS/BVG 6
Singles Pre 1930
PSA 519
SGC 283
GAI 37
BVG 8
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
James
<< <i>When I spoke with MJ Roop I asked them about their new partnership with SGC. They informed me that the VAST number of SGC collectors want to hang on to their cards for personal collections and that is why they will be catering more archival products to them. PSA members are more apt to throw their cards on to e-bay after slabbing. Those e-bay numbers are hardly suprising. >>
I agree that PSA is where you get your post-1948 card graded for maximum market value, though I am sure some SGC enthusiasts would object. If you just want the card for your collection and don't think you'll ever need to sell it, SGC is a fine choice.
I don't hesitate to buy SGC cards. I like their slab and I like their grading, with only a few quibbles (I have some with PSA as well). SGC usually crosses well to PSA, and the difference in price usually makes it worthwhile. The exception is that SGC sometimes doesn't subtract enough for bad centering, so a poorly centered SGC 86 (7.5) might cross to a PSA 8 (oc), which is worth PSA 6 in the registry and usually on the market. You have to look at centering carefully, if you're thinking of crossing to PSA. You don't want to lose a point and a half on centering.
I have quite a few SGC cards that I don't need in PSA form for my registries, most of them pre-war. I think SGC gets closer to PSA in value, and can even exceed it, the further back you go in time. Cards before 1948, I usually don't bother crossing to PSA unless it's for a registry set. Those sell just fine in SGC holders. I wouldn't be surprised if SGC's steady customers are mostly pre-war collectors.
In my opinion, overall SGC is the best option after PSA, and I want them to do well so that PSA stays on its toes.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
James, I believe you when you say this. Still, there are at least as many people who use PSA for their personal collections as well (including myself). Ebay is just being used as an indirect comparison tool here to reflect choice of grading company.
The cards I've seen in their newer holders look fine as far as centering is concerned. As far as crossovers, try crossing over some low end psa 9's (like the finest refractor that was posted in another thread or even some that are more reasonable) with another company and see how many 7's and 8's you get. Unless you've also cracked out psa cards and sent them elsewhere, you can't compare grading services based on crossover results.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>I will repeat again that many people use SGC for their personal collections, so you will not see a lot of them on e-bay.
James, I believe you when you say this. Still, there are at least as many people who use PSA for their personal collections as well (including myself). Ebay is just being used as an indirect comparison tool here to reflect choice of grading company. >>
I use PSA for my personal colelction as well. Just to poke a hole in the entire thread. LOOK at the popularity of the PSA set registry as opposed to the SGC registry. I actually have not looked at the SGC registry, but I am 99.99999999% there are not 15615 sets registered, be it 15000 have one card...lol
The classics are still worth a lot but Detroit can't build a car that will hold value now
For all you homers, I hope the registry keeps you warm and cozy .
I have no ax to grind....this site was first I've looked at...and I've checked the competition.
Check out my thread on "Top Notch Customer Service"
PSA and all of you just don't get it...Quality and Service will prevail....especially when the market leader is arrogant.
Check out the Yankees........
<< <i>Everyone used to drive Chevys and Fords also
The classics are still worth a lot but Detroit can't build a car that will hold value now
For all you homers, I hope the registry keeps you warm and cozy .
I have no ax to grind....this site was first I've looked at...and I've checked the competition.
Check out my thread on "Top Notch Customer Service"
PSA and all of you just don't get it...Quality and Service will prevail....especially when the market leader is arrogant.
Check out the Yankees........ >>
It's your collection and your money do with them what you want. I won't stop you. But the history and the research doesn't lie.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>Everyone used to drive Chevys and Fords also
The classics are still worth a lot but Detroit can't build a car that will hold value now >>
Any new car loses value the minute you drive it off the lot. Bad analogy.
<< <i>
For all you homers, I hope the registry keeps you warm and cozy .
>>
But wait, I thought that the reason there weren't so many SGC cards on the registry is because that so many more people use SGC slabs for their personal collection?
<< <i>
I have no ax to grind....
>>
Yes you do....you try to bash PSA and say how much better SGC is. You do have an axe to grind.
<< <i>
PSA and all of you just don't get it...Quality and Service will prevail....especially when the market leader is arrogant.
>>
Quality and Service is what I get from PSA every time...and they wouldn't be the market leader if they didn't.
I think the SGC boards are where you belong, sir.
I work in the present and plan for the future....
I've seen enough on this forum to convince me that "Houston, we have a problem"
Denial is great!!!
Then Anger (Traces of that everywhere in this forum)
Fear is Next!!!
Then depression....
Maybe confronting the issue at that point, maybe not
Y'all have a ways to go....GOOD LUCK
<< <i>On My Way...thanks for the advice...although it was quite evident that that is the proper direction
I work in the present and plan for the future....
I've seen enough on this forum to convince me that "Houston, we have a problem"
Denial is great!!!
Then Anger (Traces of that everywhere in this forum)
Fear is Next!!!
Then depression....
Maybe confronting the issue at that point, maybe not
Y'all have a ways to go....GOOD LUCK >>
Cleve
Give me a break! No one died, the world didn't come to end, the President of the US is alive and kicking,
we still have power and water, the internet is up....
Aren't you being just a bit dramatic? I like SGC and I like PSA - no one is necessarily in denial - people are just choosing their product and endorsing it over your top choice.
You talked about people "don't get it?" Get what?
This is cardboard inside plastic.
mike
<< <i>Everyone used to drive Chevys and Fords also
The classics are still worth a lot but Detroit can't build a car that will hold value now
For all you homers, I hope the registry keeps you warm and cozy .
I have no ax to grind....this site was first I've looked at...and I've checked the competition.
Check out my thread on "Top Notch Customer Service"
PSA and all of you just don't get it...Quality and Service will prevail....especially when the market leader is arrogant.
Check out the Yankees........ >>
Nice work Jeff
Thanx for taking the time to do the research.
mike
IF I DON"T LIKE WHAT I HEAR, I'LL JUST TAKE MY BALL AND GO HOME, AFTER MY LACKEYS BERATE ANYONE WHO HAS AN OPINION OTHER THAN MINE...and WE PULL THE THREAD
Maybe I'll be BANNED...OH MY...........
Quite professional......
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso