Unfortunately, I do not have a digital camara. Nor, do I have a printer/scanner/copier. It's #2 on my wishlist . I hope to have one soon. THEN pics will be posted, of my cards. I have a PSA 7 1958 Topps Maris, a 1954 Topps PSA 5 Jackie Robinson. Raw cards to name a few, I have a 1953 Toops Mantle, 1954 topps Williams, 1954 Topps Mays, 1950 Bowman jackie Robinson, 1956 Topps ted Williams, T-206 Huggins, T-206 Crawford, 1941 PLayball Mel Ott, 1934 Batter-up Mickey Cochrane, 1934 Batter-up Rogers Hornsby, 1955 Topps Jackie Robinson, 1956 Topps Ted Williams, 1952 Topps Bob feller, 1952 Topps Duke Snider, 1956 Topps Bob Feller, 1951 Bowman Bob feller (autographed), 1969 Topps reggie Jackson, and over 800 cards of Cal Ripken, Jr. I just listed SOME of my favorite cards.
Best Regards,
Adam J. Moraine
p.s. I COULD use a PSA 1 or PSA 2 Cobb (red. port.) any willing sellers email me. moneyman11380@mchsi.com
<< <i>JR to learn more about e-topps PM kevin (joe stalin) he can fill you in too.
SD >>
Do we really have to go there? Lets put it this way, we all collect what we like and thats the way it should be. If you don't like the etopps concept don't use it, if you don't know about it go there and look around and buy a card or 2, nobody can argue that these cards look great. I'm not going to get into a long debate over this. Buy what you like and if people don't like it screw em. I use etopps for modern and I collect PSA vintage sets. If anyone has a problem with that well thats their issue not mine.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
If you don't have many graded cards, it might not be a big concern, but scanners with CCD (charge coupled device) scanning elements are the way to go. The other type of scanner, CIS (contact image sensor) handles depth poorly so slabbed cards appear blurry... the canon lide scanners uses this technology, and they are not recommended. I learned this the hard way as I own a LIDE scanner...
<< <i>JR to learn more about e-topps PM kevin (joe stalin) he can fill you in too.
SD >>
Do we really have to go there? Lets put it this way, we all collect what we like and thats the way it should be. If you don't like the etopps concept don't use it, if you don't know about it go there and look around and buy a card or 2, nobody can argue that these cards look great. I'm not going to get into a long debate over this. Buy what you like and if people don't like it screw em. I use etopps for modern and I collect PSA vintage sets. If anyone has a problem with that well thats their issue not mine. >>
What's the big deal? I didn't know how eTopps works, Jeff straightened me out. I'm not into modern, a lot of people aren't into vintage. As John Lennon wrote, "Nothin' to get hung about." (We really need a 'shrug' icon)
I really don't know what the issue is guys but I do know that in other collecting communities when Etopps is brought up it is bashed to pieces. I don't know if it is lack of understanding of the concept or a hidden agenda or just people bored with nothing better to do. I for one like to be able to move my modern very quickly since I mainly use that for quick investments and don't need another couple hundred boxes of modern laying around my house. Etopps stores them for me and gives me an online way to sell them without having to ship the cards to the buyer. This makes transactions lightening quick. I can get in and out of a position very quickly and again I never touch the cards unless I want to experience their beauty first hand.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
The reason I personally have a problem with eTopps is that it is a market that is controlled by a company and has no regulation. If I am going to invest, I want a stable market. I don't see a stable market in eTopps. But then again I don't invest in modern cards either since I have not seen them hold their value.
How is the etopps market controlled by a company? The etopps market after IPO is ebay. It is no less stable than any other modern material.
The consumer controls the market on etopps the same as it does for PSA cards or any other cards. The only thing etopps does is decide what to charge for the card initially and the max amount of that card that they want to produce. Hmmm sounds an awful lot like a company deciding what to retail boxes for and how many to produce. Your point about regulation makes no sense, really don't know what you mean by that.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Please accept my apologies Jeff, I was under the impression that the eTopps marketplace was set up by Topps. I forgot that it had moved to eBay years ago. My information is dated. In that difference it is no different than modern.
However, when eTopps came out it was marketed towards investing in cards. The problem I have with a company creating a market out of cards is there is nothing of direct value to trace it to. While the cards have a value of what someone will pay for them, what stops Topps from printing more and throwing them on eBay? Reminds me of the Star Company problem.
Ok I understand where you are coming from now. As far as topps printing more it can't happen. They have a published print run on every card. No more can be produced. If it were ever found out that they produced more than that number they would be in deep you know what. lol. I don't see how anyone could compare Topps to Star. No apologies needed alot of people are in the dark about etopps.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Most eTopps cards have gone down since initial issuance - and most of the ones with the greatest gains are not the top players, but the Tony Banks's of the world, who had very few cards produced (because no one wanted them initially). In fact, for such things as 2002 eTopps football, the last time I checked, almost every card in the set had gone down significantly since issuance. It can be an interesting way to pick up a few cards you really like (I've purchased eTopps cards for as little as 71 cents).
Yeah but really what modern issue for the most part hasn't lost value? There are some good gainers especially in 03 basketball. Modern is always a crap shoot you just have to buy smart and low and sell fast and high.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
No other modern issue has the perverse incentives for value that eTopps does, where fewer cards are created of the less popular players (sometimes 10% of the production run of popular players). Add in the fact that you actually have to pay extra to have anything delivered to you (and the last time I checked BGS's pop reports on in-hand etopps, the most common grade was BGS 8.5), and you have a recipe for dissatisfied collectors.
The fact that the 8.5 is avg is false and even if it were true I have opened alot of packs of cards that would not yield that average condition, same goes for other uncirculated cards. Second of all I don't do BGS grading they are far from reputable at this point. Print runs have changed quite drastically since the 2002 cards that you are quoting. And when you buy a card on ebay do you pay shipping? Your points are weak, if you don't like it that is fine, I have accepted that it is not for everyone I'm just tired of all the misinformation that is spread about the program.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
2001 baseball has 103 out of 376 graded a 9.5 2002 baseball has 52 out of 85 graded a 9.5 2003 baseball has 98 out of 122 graded a 9.5 2004 baseball has 52 out of 64 graded a 9.5
See a trend here?
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Is it that BGS have lessened their grading standards and now give out 9.5s left and right whereas a few years ago they were tougher?
Is it that eTopps submitters have gotten better/smarter at only submitting the best cards?
Or is it that eTopps have been putting out better quality cards?
Just need some clarification, thanks.
I collect Vintage Cards, Commemorative Sets, and way too many vintage and modern player collections in Baseball (180 players), Football (175 players), and Basketball (87 players). Also have a Dallas Cowboy team collection.
My trend was the fact that he said the majority submitted were 8.5 I showed the majority were 9.5. I didn't bring up BGS, in fact I can't stand em just setting the facts straight.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Sorry for the confusion, since you used "9.5" I assumed you meant BGS, since PSA does not use half grades.
I collect Vintage Cards, Commemorative Sets, and way too many vintage and modern player collections in Baseball (180 players), Football (175 players), and Basketball (87 players). Also have a Dallas Cowboy team collection.
Question on busting them out of the original holder and grading. Why do they do it. The card already has a percieved value based on the current market price, will grading it really make it worth that much more?
I really don't see an added value from grading an already encapsulated uncirculated modern card. Although some hot rookies like Lebron sold very well in the 9.5 and 10 grade. I personally wouldn't do it unless I was doing a PSA set registry set.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
There was an older eTopps thread on this board (between 1 and 2 years ago) where I posted detailed #s for Beckett grades on these cards, and BGS 9.5s were very hard to come by then. Looks like Beckett started handing 9.5s out like Halloween candy on these cards since then.
What sort of perverse incentives does eTopps offer?
Well, here are the most expensive cards by set:
2001 baseball - Vernon Wells 2002 baseball - Frank Catalanotto 2003 baseball - Miguel Cabrera (narrowly over A.J. Burnett) 2004 baseball - Arizona Diamondbacks team card 2005 baseball - David DeJesus
2001 basketball - Jerry Stackhouse 2002 basketball - Jamal Mashburn 2003 basketball - Dwayne Wade (LeBron is not #2 - Drew Gooden is) 2004 basketball - Josh Smith
2000 football - Jamal Lewis 2001 football - Tony Banks (Derrick Mason is #2 - these are 2 of the only 3 post-2000 eTopps cards over $100) 2002 football - Brett Favre 2003 football - Tom Brady 2004 football - Ben Roethlisberger
2001 hockey - Steve Yzerman 2002 hockey - Steve Yzerman 2003 hockey - Ed Jovanovski (Tony Amonte is #2)
2003 NASCAR - Jeff Burton
2004 soccer - Wayne Bridge
Classic baseball - Hank Aaron Classic baseball events - Bonds' 73rd Blast Classic football - Steve Young (the other post-2000 card over $100)
The best profits in cards should not come from buying the worst players - Frank Catalanotto, Jamal Mashburn, Tony Banks, Derrick Mason, and Ed Jovanovski are not on collector wantlists in the real world (OK, I know some Rams fans who want Banks dead or alive, but that's a different story).
Here are more pertinent eTopps numbers: cards above IPO price - 524 cards below IPO price - 1136
As far as the production numbers being lower than they were in 2002, consider what the recent cards are doing: If you bought 1 of each 2005 baseball, you would have a 24% loss so far. If you bought 1 of each 2004 basketball, you would have a 19.2% loss so far. If you bought 1 of each 2004 football, you would have a 19.6% loss so far. If you bought 1 of each 2005 baseball season event, you would have a 15.6% loss so far. If you bought 1 of each 2005 basketball playoffs event, you would have a 22.2% gain so far, but you would have losses on 6 of 8 cards - almost all your gain would be on one card. If you bought 1 of each 2004 football playoffs event, you would have a 31.4% loss so far.
I'm not going to go through the eTopps classics, because those are not divided neatly into recent and old.
The market is also highly vulnerable to manipulation - 2 people can "set" a price for a card by selling the same card back and forth to each other on eBay, because the eTopps stated value is based on recent transactions.
Now, as far as Topps being in deep trouble if they ever printed more than they stated, they have already done that on other cards.
Seven years ago, Englert and Sentef used the Internet to obtain their Jagr and Maddux cards. Englert had spent $52,000 to purchase 159 cards of Jagr in a Pittsburgh Penguins uniform. Sentef paid an average of $900 for 220 cards of the Atlanta Braves pitcher.
But the two collectors weren't happy with how large their collection had grown.
According to an eight-page newsletter released by Topps and distributed to hobby dealers, there were supposed to be no more than 150 gold refractor cards of each player in its 1995-96 Hockey's Finest and 1996 Baseball's Finest sets. The fact that the two had collected more than were supposedly made threatened to devalue their investment since prices were based on the company's claim of scarcity.
Both sued.
Englert walked away with $177,000 on Friday, four months after his court victory against Topps. Sentef settled his suit against the card producer for an undisclosed amount in December before the case made it to trial.
Since the eTopps cards are not serial numbered, it would be very easy to produce more than the stated quantities. Who would know if there are 10,500 LeBron rookies rather than 10,000?
There are eTopps cards now that sell for barely over listing fees (I didn't check exhaustively, but the 2002 basketball Melvin Ely rookie is now $0.44, and I saw 3 2002 football cards at 50 cents apiece). If you have any of those in your portfolio, you either have to wait for an eBay listing special, or your position has already gone to 0 if you want to sell.
For people to make consistent profits off of eTopps at this point, new money would have to flow in faster than new cards do. Otherwise, we have a situation similar to this one, where it is the same pool of funds (with increases that are less than the sales of brand new cards) circulating about ever more cards. It's a recipe for losses.
Look you seem to have your mind made up so I will not sit here and get into a pissing match. Your points are largely invalid since you need to take into effect how the shear scarcity of the cards can effect the value. Of course you didn't want to get into the classics since they are up big time from IPO so way to selectively use your numbers. Every argument you have made against etopps can be used against all other modern products you just happen to want to pick on etopps. How many times have you bought a $200 box of cards and couldn't get $40 for the contents. Compare the 2002 etopps with 1989 topps they were both overproduced so they both took a hit in the value department. The fact remains that any modern is no better than etopps and with etopps I don't need to bust boxes or packs since I can just buy the card I want. No busting boxes to get the lebrons and getting hundreds of commons if I don't want the commons I don't buy them, if i want the Lebron I just buy it. So spin the numbers however you see fit but you only take a loss if you indescriminately buy any cards they offer. If you buy smart, you can and will make money.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Topps said they are done making baseball classics. Of course, they already went back on their word once, and added people like Mark Fidrych to the classics set after it was supposedly closed.
When you say that I "need to take into effect how the shear scarcity of the cards can effect the value", you don't seem to catch on to what I spent the prior post pointing out - that it is the scarcity itself which is the major determinant of the card value, and the reason for the scarcity is because many of these players stink and should already be out of the league.
In a rational card market, buing the following cards in March 2004 and holding them until now would have been smart: LaDainian Tomlinson rookie, Deuce McAllister rookie, Yao Ming rookie, Amare Stoudemire rookie, Andre Johnson rookie, Albert Pujols rookie, Dontrelle Willis rookie, Mark Prior rookie, LeBron James rookie.
Well, here's what happened for each of those from then until now (March '04 prices based on an article posted on cardtarget.com): Tomlinson rookie - down 15.7% McAllister rookie - down 23.4% Ming rookie - down 64.2% Stoudemire rookie - up 5.2% A. Johnson rookie - up 2.2% Pujols rookie - up 16.9% Willis rookie - down 41% Prior rookie - down 74.4% James rookie - up 9.3%
If you look at the prices of their rookies from the major sets, each one of these players has shown significant increases during the last 15 months. But, what happened on eTopps? Moderate increases on Pujols and James, weak increases for which sales costs would eat up the profit on Stoudemire and Andre Johnson, and losses ranging from moderate (on Tomlinson, despite a season where he became acclaimed as the NFL's best running back) to devastating on Ming and Prior.
As far as the prices go on the Classics, if you bought the early issues, you lost money. If you bought the most recent issues, you lost money. If you guessed correctly that very few people would buy the middle issues, and picked up Freddie Biletnikoff and Luis Aparicio (while passing up John Elway and Lou Gehrig), you made a substantial amount of money.
Furthermore, the collectibility of the Classics, beyond the base of eTopps loyalists, is to fans of particular players and to a lesser extent teams. The "there's only a few hundred of these in the world" argument does not work very well for collectors of vintage players who are looking at modern cards. Two of the three lowest-print baseball classics are Jim Palmer and Luis Aparicio. I have purchased certified autographed cards of both men (Fleer GOTG Palmer and Finest Moments Aparicio) for far less than the cost of their eTopps card. Anyone collecting either player could readily do the same. Now, why would they want an etopps card under those circumstances?
Perhaps you hadn't noticed, but I can just buy whichever cards I want from the other sets too - it's called ebay and card shows. I can focus on just certain players, or autographs, or game-used cards, or #d rookies, or parallels, or whatever strikes my fancy. What makes eTopps different is that if you buy the cards of player you want because they are good players, there are normally far too many of those cards for the market, and they go down in value, whereas if you buy the cards of the cards of players who get booed playing at home, no one else originally wanted them either, and they go up. If every normal reason to want a card makes it a bad investment, the market is inherently unstable.
Look at all the special offers eTopps now makes available for its users - from performance bonuses to buying autographs on certain eTopps cards. Now, what happens to all the 2005 cards after the performance bonuses are handed out? I would bet that the 2005 team cards sink rapidly to 2004 team card prices.
There can be some great bargains in eTopps (speculating in Melvin Ely rookies at 44 cents apiece comes to mind - it wouldn't take that much of a performance from him for these to be readily sellable in-hand at several dollars apiece), but most of the market seems to be a Bizarro-world version of day trading.
I can see your points and I have raised similar ones before. I have too many vintage sets going to even worry about etopps but I do pick up some rookies or other cards here and there like the Sandberg and Banks classic. Etopps is just like collecting other cards but its easier to move them and easier to buy. Plain and simple if you like etopps buy them if you don't buy something else. That has been my only point here.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>Is an etopps set the same as the traditional set?
Is it what they call a parallel set?
does the etopps version of a card mimic the basic set?
Steve >>
Etopps is its own entity its sets are completely separate from topps.
It is not a parallel set it is a base set.
The etopps images are separate from the topps base set with very few exceptions as we know Topps likes to reuse photos.
These are two of this weeks etopps offerings.
Not bad if i say so myself.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Comments
Unfortunately, I do not have a digital camara. Nor, do I have a printer/scanner/copier. It's #2 on my wishlist . I hope to have one soon. THEN pics will be posted, of my cards. I have a PSA 7 1958 Topps Maris, a 1954 Topps PSA 5 Jackie Robinson. Raw cards to name a few, I have a 1953 Toops Mantle, 1954 topps Williams, 1954 Topps Mays, 1950 Bowman jackie Robinson, 1956 Topps ted Williams, T-206 Huggins, T-206 Crawford, 1941 PLayball Mel Ott, 1934 Batter-up Mickey Cochrane, 1934 Batter-up Rogers Hornsby, 1955 Topps Jackie Robinson, 1956 Topps Ted Williams, 1952 Topps Bob feller, 1952 Topps Duke Snider, 1956 Topps Bob Feller, 1951 Bowman Bob feller (autographed), 1969 Topps reggie Jackson, and over 800 cards of Cal Ripken, Jr. I just listed SOME of my favorite cards.
Best Regards,
Adam J. Moraine
p.s. I COULD use a PSA 1 or PSA 2 Cobb (red. port.) any willing sellers email me. moneyman11380@mchsi.com
heres a nice 53 mantle:
Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
Maybe you could borrow a friends or use the library.
We would like to see what you have.
<< <i>JR to learn more about e-topps PM kevin (joe stalin) he can fill you in too.
SD >>
Do we really have to go there? Lets put it this way, we all collect what we like and thats the way it should be. If you don't like the etopps concept don't use it, if you don't know about it go there and look around and buy a card or 2, nobody can argue that these cards look great. I'm not going to get into a long debate over this. Buy what you like and if people don't like it screw em. I use etopps for modern and I collect PSA vintage sets. If anyone has a problem with that well thats their issue not mine.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>Unfortunately, I do not have a digital camara. Nor, do I have a printer/scanner/copier. >>
You can get a decent one for as low as $109
Brian
<< <i>
<< <i>JR to learn more about e-topps PM kevin (joe stalin) he can fill you in too.
SD >>
Do we really have to go there? Lets put it this way, we all collect what we like and thats the way it should be. If you don't like the etopps concept don't use it, if you don't know about it go there and look around and buy a card or 2, nobody can argue that these cards look great. I'm not going to get into a long debate over this. Buy what you like and if people don't like it screw em. I use etopps for modern and I collect PSA vintage sets. If anyone has a problem with that well thats their issue not mine. >>
What's the big deal? I didn't know how eTopps works, Jeff straightened me out. I'm not into modern, a lot of people aren't into vintage. As John Lennon wrote, "Nothin' to get hung about." (We really need a 'shrug' icon)
Oh if anyone wants the link for Panandrews dancing girl, give me a PM.
SD
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Collectable
The consumer controls the market on etopps the same as it does for PSA cards or any other cards. The only thing etopps does is decide what to charge for the card initially and the max amount of that card that they want to produce. Hmmm sounds an awful lot like a company deciding what to retail boxes for and how many to produce. Your point about regulation makes no sense, really don't know what you mean by that.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
However, when eTopps came out it was marketed towards investing in cards. The problem I have with a company creating a market out of cards is there is nothing of direct value to trace it to. While the cards have a value of what someone will pay for them, what stops Topps from printing more and throwing them on eBay? Reminds me of the Star Company problem.
Collectable
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
2001 baseball has 103 out of 376 graded a 9.5
2002 baseball has 52 out of 85 graded a 9.5
2003 baseball has 98 out of 122 graded a 9.5
2004 baseball has 52 out of 64 graded a 9.5
See a trend here?
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Is it that BGS have lessened their grading standards and now give out 9.5s left and right whereas a few years ago they were tougher?
Is it that eTopps submitters have gotten better/smarter at only submitting the best cards?
Or is it that eTopps have been putting out better quality cards?
Just need some clarification, thanks.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Stingray
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
What sort of perverse incentives does eTopps offer?
Well, here are the most expensive cards by set:
2001 baseball - Vernon Wells
2002 baseball - Frank Catalanotto
2003 baseball - Miguel Cabrera (narrowly over A.J. Burnett)
2004 baseball - Arizona Diamondbacks team card
2005 baseball - David DeJesus
2001 basketball - Jerry Stackhouse
2002 basketball - Jamal Mashburn
2003 basketball - Dwayne Wade (LeBron is not #2 - Drew Gooden is)
2004 basketball - Josh Smith
2000 football - Jamal Lewis
2001 football - Tony Banks (Derrick Mason is #2 - these are 2 of the only 3 post-2000 eTopps cards over $100)
2002 football - Brett Favre
2003 football - Tom Brady
2004 football - Ben Roethlisberger
2001 hockey - Steve Yzerman
2002 hockey - Steve Yzerman
2003 hockey - Ed Jovanovski (Tony Amonte is #2)
2003 NASCAR - Jeff Burton
2004 soccer - Wayne Bridge
Classic baseball - Hank Aaron
Classic baseball events - Bonds' 73rd Blast
Classic football - Steve Young (the other post-2000 card over $100)
Events team/player achievments - Delgado smashes 4 HR
Events eCon 2.0 - Bob Lemon
Events 2004 baseball playoffs - (Jim Edmonds') Walk-Off HR
Events 2005 basketball playoffs - Suns & Heat Complete Sweep
Events 2004 football playoffs - Bulger Sweeps the Seahawks
Event 2005 baseball season - Miguel Tejada (All-Star MVP)
The best profits in cards should not come from buying the worst players - Frank Catalanotto, Jamal Mashburn, Tony Banks, Derrick Mason, and Ed Jovanovski are not on collector wantlists in the real world (OK, I know some Rams fans who want Banks dead or alive, but that's a different story).
Here are more pertinent eTopps numbers:
cards above IPO price - 524
cards below IPO price - 1136
As far as the production numbers being lower than they were in 2002, consider what the recent cards are doing:
If you bought 1 of each 2005 baseball, you would have a 24% loss so far.
If you bought 1 of each 2004 basketball, you would have a 19.2% loss so far.
If you bought 1 of each 2004 football, you would have a 19.6% loss so far.
If you bought 1 of each 2005 baseball season event, you would have a 15.6% loss so far.
If you bought 1 of each 2005 basketball playoffs event, you would have a 22.2% gain so far, but you would have losses on 6 of 8 cards - almost all your gain would be on one card.
If you bought 1 of each 2004 football playoffs event, you would have a 31.4% loss so far.
I'm not going to go through the eTopps classics, because those are not divided neatly into recent and old.
The market is also highly vulnerable to manipulation - 2 people can "set" a price for a card by selling the same card back and forth to each other on eBay, because the eTopps stated value is based on recent transactions.
Now, as far as Topps being in deep trouble if they ever printed more than they stated, they have already done that on other cards.
Seven years ago, Englert and Sentef used the Internet to obtain their Jagr and Maddux cards. Englert had spent $52,000 to purchase 159 cards of Jagr in a Pittsburgh Penguins uniform. Sentef paid an average of $900 for 220 cards of the Atlanta Braves pitcher.
But the two collectors weren't happy with how large their collection had grown.
According to an eight-page newsletter released by Topps and distributed to hobby dealers, there were supposed to be no more than 150 gold refractor cards of each player in its 1995-96 Hockey's Finest and 1996 Baseball's Finest sets. The fact that the two had collected more than were supposedly made threatened to devalue their investment since prices were based on the company's claim of scarcity.
Both sued.
Englert walked away with $177,000 on Friday, four months after his court victory against Topps. Sentef settled his suit against the card producer for an undisclosed amount in December before the case made it to trial.
from ESPN.com SPORTSBUSINESS: Fuzzy math
Since the eTopps cards are not serial numbered, it would be very easy to produce more than the stated quantities. Who would know if there are 10,500 LeBron rookies rather than 10,000?
There are eTopps cards now that sell for barely over listing fees (I didn't check exhaustively, but the 2002 basketball Melvin Ely rookie is now $0.44, and I saw 3 2002 football cards at 50 cents apiece). If you have any of those in your portfolio, you either have to wait for an eBay listing special, or your position has already gone to 0 if you want to sell.
For people to make consistent profits off of eTopps at this point, new money would have to flow in faster than new cards do. Otherwise, we have a situation similar to this one, where it is the same pool of funds (with increases that are less than the sales of brand new cards) circulating about ever more cards. It's a recipe for losses.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
When you say that I "need to take into effect how the shear scarcity of the cards can effect the value", you don't seem to catch on to what I spent the prior post pointing out - that it is the scarcity itself which is the major determinant of the card value, and the reason for the scarcity is because many of these players stink and should already be out of the league.
In a rational card market, buing the following cards in March 2004 and holding them until now would have been smart: LaDainian Tomlinson rookie, Deuce McAllister rookie, Yao Ming rookie, Amare Stoudemire rookie, Andre Johnson rookie, Albert Pujols rookie, Dontrelle Willis rookie, Mark Prior rookie, LeBron James rookie.
Well, here's what happened for each of those from then until now (March '04 prices based on an article posted on cardtarget.com):
Tomlinson rookie - down 15.7%
McAllister rookie - down 23.4%
Ming rookie - down 64.2%
Stoudemire rookie - up 5.2%
A. Johnson rookie - up 2.2%
Pujols rookie - up 16.9%
Willis rookie - down 41%
Prior rookie - down 74.4%
James rookie - up 9.3%
If you look at the prices of their rookies from the major sets, each one of these players has shown significant increases during the last 15 months. But, what happened on eTopps? Moderate increases on Pujols and James, weak increases for which sales costs would eat up the profit on Stoudemire and Andre Johnson, and losses ranging from moderate (on Tomlinson, despite a season where he became acclaimed as the NFL's best running back) to devastating on Ming and Prior.
As far as the prices go on the Classics, if you bought the early issues, you lost money. If you bought the most recent issues, you lost money. If you guessed correctly that very few people would buy the middle issues, and picked up Freddie Biletnikoff and Luis Aparicio (while passing up John Elway and Lou Gehrig), you made a substantial amount of money.
Furthermore, the collectibility of the Classics, beyond the base of eTopps loyalists, is to fans of particular players and to a lesser extent teams. The "there's only a few hundred of these in the world" argument does not work very well for collectors of vintage players who are looking at modern cards. Two of the three lowest-print baseball classics are Jim Palmer and Luis Aparicio. I have purchased certified autographed cards of both men (Fleer GOTG Palmer and Finest Moments Aparicio) for far less than the cost of their eTopps card. Anyone collecting either player could readily do the same. Now, why would they want an etopps card under those circumstances?
Perhaps you hadn't noticed, but I can just buy whichever cards I want from the other sets too - it's called ebay and card shows. I can focus on just certain players, or autographs, or game-used cards, or #d rookies, or parallels, or whatever strikes my fancy. What makes eTopps different is that if you buy the cards of player you want because they are good players, there are normally far too many of those cards for the market, and they go down in value, whereas if you buy the cards of the cards of players who get booed playing at home, no one else originally wanted them either, and they go up. If every normal reason to want a card makes it a bad investment, the market is inherently unstable.
Look at all the special offers eTopps now makes available for its users - from performance bonuses to buying autographs on certain eTopps cards. Now, what happens to all the 2005 cards after the performance bonuses are handed out? I would bet that the 2005 team cards sink rapidly to 2004 team card prices.
There can be some great bargains in eTopps (speculating in Melvin Ely rookies at 44 cents apiece comes to mind - it wouldn't take that much of a performance from him for these to be readily sellable in-hand at several dollars apiece), but most of the market seems to be a Bizarro-world version of day trading.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Is it what they call a parallel set?
does the etopps version of a card mimic the basic set?
Steve
<< <i>Is an etopps set the same as the traditional set?
Is it what they call a parallel set?
does the etopps version of a card mimic the basic set?
Steve >>
Etopps is its own entity its sets are completely separate from topps.
It is not a parallel set it is a base set.
The etopps images are separate from the topps base set with very few exceptions as we know Topps likes to reuse photos.
These are two of this weeks etopps offerings.
Not bad if i say so myself.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso