OWN3D BY ANACS (Was: Grades from down the street, next block over.)
flaminio
Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭
I just got my ass handed to me by ANACS, trying to cross PCGS MS69s into ANACS MS69s:
001 1983-D Olympic ex-PCGS MS69 Coin does not meet owner's minimum grade requirement
002 1983-D Olympic ex-PCGS MS69 Coin does not meet owner's minimum grade requirement
003 1983-D Olympic ex-PCGS MS69 Coin does not meet owner's minimum grade requirement
004 1983-D Olympic ex-PCGS MS69 Coin does not meet owner's minimum grade requirement
005 1983-D Olympic ex-PCGS MS69 Coin does not meet owner's minimum grade requirement
This is the last dollar I need for my collection, but it looks like it won't happen this year.
I'm going to try tossing a couple NGCs into the mix. Lookee who just sold me one. Remember him ?
001 1983-D Olympic ex-PCGS MS69 Coin does not meet owner's minimum grade requirement
002 1983-D Olympic ex-PCGS MS69 Coin does not meet owner's minimum grade requirement
003 1983-D Olympic ex-PCGS MS69 Coin does not meet owner's minimum grade requirement
004 1983-D Olympic ex-PCGS MS69 Coin does not meet owner's minimum grade requirement
005 1983-D Olympic ex-PCGS MS69 Coin does not meet owner's minimum grade requirement
This is the last dollar I need for my collection, but it looks like it won't happen this year.
I'm going to try tossing a couple NGCs into the mix. Lookee who just sold me one. Remember him ?
0
Comments
I must be missing something. Is there an ANACS-only registry that I have never heard of?
<< <i>I must be missing something. Is there an ANACS-only registry that I have never heard of? >>
Is that all there is to collecting -- the registry? Maybe I'm in a registry of 1.
Linkadoodles.
<< <i>I kind of like the light toning on the crispus attucks coin. >>
That happened inside the holder. The coin was white (ahem) when I bought it.
<< <i>I wonder... Do you think you would have had a better chance if you submitted them in the PCGS plastic and simply tried to cross??? >>
Actually, that's what I did -- I wasn't so clear in my OP. The coins went to Dublin in PCGS MS69 holders, and they came back from Dublin in PCGS MS69 holders.
*Disclaimer* I also love PCGS
">"http://www.cashcrate.com/5663377"
<< <i>It would be interesting to crack them all out and resubmit. You might get a grade drop, but you might also get a 69. It would also give some idea if ANACS is just trying to give PCGS a black eye by not grading their coins the same. >>
Sounds like an interesting experiment. Since these coins aren't particularly high-valued to begin with, I think I'll go for it. Bust 'em all out and try again raw, and see what comes back.
I hope the ANACS guys aren't reading this thread ....
I'll tell you, I find it highly suspicious that ANACS claims 5 out of 5 PCGS coins are OVERGRADED by ANACS standards.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>ANACS has a reputation for being extremely conservative with high grade moderns. How many MS-70's have you seen in ANACS holders? >>
I agree totally. They are also rediculously tough with Washington's and also just about all gold coins.
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"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
Not in all cases...I've seen some way overgraded, and a few that are undergraded..
As with any service..
Let us know how it turns out. Should be very interesting.
TorinoCobra71
I've been watching for about a year for ANACS MS70 coins - of any kind, and not one has shown up on ebay, TelTrade, or Heritage. I believe someone on the board said they had seen one at a show somewhere. Personally I think they are being tight to the point it's going to put them out of business. I like buying their coins, but I'm not willing to send any for grading unless it has problems.
<< <i>Personally I think they are being tight to the point it's going to put them out of business. I like buying their coins, but I'm not willing to send any for grading unless it has problems. >>
This, alas, is the prevailing attitude that leads to gradeflation.
Super collection!!
I think that the main thing regarding ANACS grading is "that they do not wander around as much as PCGS or NGC".!!! They seem to me to be extremely consistant. I have not sent a coin in an ANACS holder to PCGS that did not cross.
I also think that you might achieve your goal, if you send some of those coins in raw. It's a real hoot that some other TPG finds PCGS grades lacking.
Would you say the same thing if it was the other way around?
I must be missing something. Is there an ANACS-only registry that I have never heard of?
With a comment like that, maybe you should change your handle to RYKBLAYNUMIS
That's a reallly really nice collection flaminio!
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
<< <i>Would you say the same thing if it was the other way around? >>
I would indeed. The top three are the top three for good reasons. Subsequently the top three are always in direct competition with the other two.
There is a reason that the coins given to the graders have no identifying characteristics regarding the submitter. The reason is to eliminate potential favor, influence and bias. When a coin is graded in another TPG's plastic, the possibility of bias can never be removed. It's right there staring each & every grader right in the face, and possibly influencing the grade.
Now if the coins are resubmitted raw and one or more come back as 69, this still doesn't actually prove bias. It would, however, prove inconsistency, which we all full well know is something that is common in all TPG's.
<< <i>It would be interesting to crack them all out and resubmit. You might get a grade drop, but you might also get a 69. It would also give some idea if ANACS is just trying to give PCGS a black eye by not grading their coins the same. >>
Done. I cracked out the five PCGS MS69s and resubmitted them raw. And I got totally OWNED:
001 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS65 !!
002 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS65 !!
003 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS66
004 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS67
005 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS68
Oh, man this is turning into a serious biatch of a coin to make. I might have to put a bounty out on it -- the grading fees alone are killing me for what should be an easy coin.
<< <i>It would be interesting to crack them all out and resubmit. You might get a grade drop, but you might also get a 69. It would also give some idea if ANACS is just trying to give PCGS a black eye by not grading their coins the same. >>
ANACS standards for these coins have always been very strict. I doubt if they are trying to give anyone a "black eye."
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<< <i>I just got my ass handed to me by ANACS, trying to cross PCGS MS69s into ANACS MS69s...
I must be missing something. Is there an ANACS-only registry that I have never heard of? >>
Some people prefer ANACS to PCGS.
<< <i>Some people prefer ANACS to PCGS. >>
Indeed.
OK, it's bounty time. I really don't want to go through another round of submissions for this coin. In a PCGS MS69 holder, this is a $30 coin. If any of you dealers out there can make me an ANACS MS69, I'll pay you $200 for it. So how's your eye? Think you can outthink ANACS?
Good Luck on your quest!
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>ANACS will bodybag fakes and coins with active PVC contamination. >>
Actually with active PVC they send it back to you to correct then you can send it back to them for a nominal fee...
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<< <i>
<< <i>ANACS will bodybag fakes and coins with active PVC contamination. >>
Actually with active PVC they send it back to you to correct then you can send it back to them for a nominal fee... >>
Really? I have had stuff bagged for PVC in the past and they say nothing about the nomial fee regrade. Its bodybagged and tough luck.
Cameron Kiefer
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<< <i>
<< <i>Some people prefer ANACS to PCGS. >>
Indeed.
OK, it's bounty time. I really don't want to go through another round of submissions for this coin. In a PCGS MS69 holder, this is a $30 coin. If any of you dealers out there can make me an ANACS MS69, I'll pay you $200 for it. So how's your eye? Think you can outthink ANACS? >>
Does anyone have the pop report on this coin in a MS69?
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<< <i>Really? I have had stuff bagged for PVC in the past and they say nothing about the nomial fee regrade. Its bodybagged and tough luck. >>
Yes, in fact its on the front of the ANACS submission form... PVC Re-Grade ($5.00 per coin)
Of course you still eat the shipping costs too...
-Kurt-
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and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
I'm going to list these on eBay. Do you think it would be considered keyword spamming if I put "ANACS MS65 ex-PCGS MS69" in the auction title? I'm not trying to louse up anyone's searches, but it is an accurate description of the item.
Did you ever find out the population report on the MS-69's?
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<< <i>Did you ever find out the population report on the MS-69's? >>
Rats! I was going to look it up last night, but got totally caught up in something else, and forgot. I'll try to remember to check it tonight when I get home.
<< <i>Done. I cracked out the five PCGS MS69s and resubmitted them raw. And I got totally OWNED:
001 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS65 !!
002 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS65 !!
003 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS66
004 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS67
005 1983-D Olympic (was PCGS MS69) --> ANACS MS68 >>
So based on the fact that the coins DNC when still holdered, and then came back as much as 4 MS grades lower when submitted raw, where is uproar of complaints that XXXX is severely overgrading.
I mean, to play devils advocate, if these coins were in NTC, NNC, ICG or PCI plastic, there would be a 200 post thread of condemnation. Why isn't the Numismatic Consumer Alliance (NCA) rushing to your side to file lawsuits.
Seriously though, why is a 4 grade drop so easily accepted?
On a lighter note, here's the most current info I have...
My Oct. 2004 ANACS pop report shows the 1983-D Olympic commem as follows:
Total: 35
MS66: 5
MS67: 11
MS68: 17
MS69: 2
PCGS, ANACS, & NGC Certified Coins on My Website.
NGC could use a few more posters.
Leo
Bob
Can you post some pics of those coins?
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
NGC could use a few more posters.
>>
WOW. You figured me out. I'm an NGC shill.
I'll bet you fingered that out by the sneaky way that I failed to even mention NGC in my post.
You must be some sort of dicktective.
Get over yourself skippy and grap another glass of kool-aid. I hold no candle for any grading company. I personally believe that PCGS is the best out here, but they make many, many mistakes.
So tell me, in your amateur, er, professional opinion, did PCGS overgrade by 4 points or did ANACS undergrade by 4 points?
PCGS, ANACS, & NGC Certified Coins on My Website.
PURPLE!
<< <i>Can you post some pics of those coins? >>
Sure.
ANACS MS65
ANACS MS65
ANACS MS66
ANACS MS67
ANACS MS68
<< <i>
<< <i> >>
So based on the fact that the coins DNC when still holdered, and then came back as much as 4 MS grades lower when submitted raw, where is uproar of complaints that XXXX is severely overgrading.
I mean, to play devils advocate, if these coins were in NTC, NNC, ICG or PCI plastic, there would be a 200 post thread of condemnation. Why isn't the Numismatic Consumer Alliance (NCA) rushing to your side to file lawsuits.
<< <i>
Excellent points--I'm sure that NCA will jump on this soon!