<< <i> Axtell - evidently in golf you must have hit a hole-in-one on each hole that you ever played, and you decided it was such an easy game that it couldn't be a sport. This is about the only way I can figure that someone who says they have played golf, could not think it was a sport. Tell Michael Jordan and other top athletes who play golf that it is not a sport - they will totally laugh at you. >>
Look, this will be my last golf-isn't-a-sport comment:
I don't consider activity with little to no physical activitiy a sport. When someone like John Daly, who couldn't perform any athletic activity, and he can excel, that's not a sport. When the physical activity part of your game is walking, and has no relevance to the game you're playing, that's not a sport. When you can play the game until you're 70 and then some, it's not a sport.
I am not saying it doesn't require skill. It requires hand-eye coordination. But then so does playing video games. I don't see either as a sport.
I know that there are many golfers on this board, and those are probably the ones who are screaming the loudest at me and my views. For those who are lashing out at me simply because I choose not to concede that your game is a sport, relax. I find it humorous that you are so adamant that your game is a sport, that you have to rant and yell at someone who expresses his opinion it's not a sport at all.
SPORT: Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. A particular form of this activity. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively. An active pastime; recreation
Golf is a sport. Hike up and down hills in the hot sun and take a whack at that little ball with a long stick - then tell me whether your neck, back or legs are tired/sore - not to mention the dehydration from the heat.
Bowling on a professional level is a sport - not my favorite - but try chucking a 16 pound ball down the lanes for a few hours on end - then tell me which part of your body hurts the most?
All sporting events take some kind of skill and stamina. There's very little I haven't tried and very little I was any good at.
I have plenty of respect for people that want to excel - no argument there at all. And, I play golf quite frequently, mostly as a business function. We play golf because it is the one activity that colleagues of mine (any age) can play - I can't imagine all of us playing full court basketball (like I do) or other sports. For this reason, I feel that golf falls more into the game / activity category, rather than sport. So you have to walk a lot? You can golf without walking anywhere (take a cart). It doesn't take strength, or speed, to hit a golf ball - it takes an extreme amount of hand-eye coordination...which is why an overweight, out of shape guy can hit a 250 yard tee shot, or a skinny guy can outdrive a muscular guy. I'm not sure why this upsets so many people, other than the fact I mentioned earlier - it hits home for too many people. Golfers are very talented individuals, but they are no more athletes than the guys on World Poker Tour, or PBA bowling tour, or video game pros.
CT That's an over-simplification of golf IMO. The pros do "walk" and in 100 degree weather. And the ones that are winning today are in better condition and do take their sport seriously.
I would agree that different sports require different types of conditioning - heck some baseball players need a transfusion and 2 liters of oxygen after sliding into 3rd with a triple!LOL
I have this feelin that your brand of golf is an apple and Tiger's brand is an orange.
But, I do understand what you are saying - in a general sense, I feel the same way. I'm just trying to be objective and look at the sport. And, finally, look at Annika - she is about as fit as they come - and that's probably why she's winning so much.
<< <i>I have this feelin that your brand of golf is an apple and Tiger's brand is an orange. >>
No doubt, Mike - I wasn't trying to equate my business golf outings with Tiger Woods professional golf playing - clearly he is on another planet of skill level compared to just about anyone else who participates in golf. This subject clearly strikes a nerve with the golf players among us, and I am not trying to offend anyone - but, there are people at the top of their skill level at many activities (billiards, bowling, etc.) who have a master's level of ability in that activity, but I find it to be a major stretch of the word "athlete" to include them with conventional athletes.
<< <i>but I find it to be a major stretch of the word "athlete" to include them with conventional athletes. >>
Good point There's no tackling in golf and I've never seen anyone "sack the putter" - but to be truthful, there's a lot of standing around, scratching and spitting in baseball - not exactly taxing to the body either.
I do agree tho, Tiger will never have to worry about being spiked at second, colliding into at home or hit by a pitch - so in that "conventional" sense, you're correct - but that still doesn't rule out referring to professional golf as a sport in a broader - ultra conventional sense.
I do see your point. Just to close tho - the guys that are winning more in golf are staying in shape and are athletes in that sense of the word.
Been away a while and just catching up... Axtell - you are deluded. The guys that play professionally are unreal atheletes. It takes great discipline, stamina, skill and coordination. John Daly would kick your ass. Yeah, he looks fat....but so did Nicklaus. By the way, Tony Gwynn was always a diet project, as was Fielder, Boog Powell and many other guys that played professional sports. I think I read in one of your posts, paraphrased, that "Ruth was thin as a rail until his later years" ----- you gotta be kidding. He was on the hot dog express....it's on film and can be viewed by anyone.
You also made some comment about age being a factor in considering golfers as atheletes....you knucklehead. Arnold Palmer and Sam Hogan kept winning tournaments into their 60's because they were superb atheletes. Per your attitude, they would have been sitting around playing poker.
Kool Aid, Kool Aid tastes great...wish I had some, can't wait.
Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!
I'd like to know when I said that golf players weren't in great shape?
For anyone to think that players like Tiger, or Mickelson, or the like are in better shape than most everyone is wrong.
That being said: IT DOESN'T TAKE PHYSICAL PROWESS TO PLAY GOLF. You say so when you mention Palmer and Hogan winning tournaments into their 60s. How many 60 year old football players are in the NFL? What about 60 year old MLB players? I thank you for making my point crystal clear.
John Daly could kick my ass? What's he going to do? Sit on me? And since when does the ability to kick someone's ass warrant what kind of athlete he is? Stupid comment my friend.
I suspect dirty harry and the like who are so rabidly against the thought that golf isn't a sport are the ones who play it most often, with their buddies, drinking beers, thinking they are still 'athletes' retelling stories about that time in high school, or college, or whatever.
Look, I am obviously not alone in my opinion of golf not being a sport. Why do you all take it so personally? I, like ctsox, can't help but believe you wouldn't take it so personally if you didn't think I was referring to YOU not playing a sport.
You sure do like that 'golf-is-a-sport-and-I'm-still-an-athlete' kool aid huh? I am sure you'll be telling your golfing buddies about 'this guy on this message board says golf isn't a sport! What a buffoon!'
<< <i><<< I am sure you'll be telling your golfing buddies about 'this guy on this message board says golf isn't a sport! What a buffoon!' >>>
Axtell - this is the first thing you said in this whole thread that was correct - LOL >>
Figured you were an 'athlete' who thinks he's 'still in the game!' when he's out on the course (driving a cart...you know you aren't walking it) drinking a 12 pack each by the time 18 holes are done.
<< <i>Golf is a sport? So golfers are athletes? Uhm, when someone like John Daly can participate and do well, it's NOT a sport. >>
I've seen some boxers with Daly's physique, Butterbean or whatever his name is comes to mind. Does that making boxing not a sport? I guess John Kruk didn't play baseball, or wasn't an athlete, or was it that baseball wasn't a sport? A sport cannot be defined by the certain participants physical stature.
I, from an objective point of view, consider Professional Golf a sport - I do NOT play golf and any references to the weekend warriors with golf carts filled with Buds is just unfair and silly.
Again, besides the tremendous skill, try walking up and down hills in 100 degree weather and see how you feel.
And BTW, based on your thinking - if I were to dissect certain sports - then punters and place kickers are not really involved in a sport - they rarely get hit and heck, some place kickers in the 70s were fat!
In a narrow sense, I can see someone eliminating certain sports because they are just not "busy" enough for them or demonstrate enough physical endurance or prowess but like it or not, golf is a sport.
Sport:
1. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
Both of these definitions are in the dictionary - the operative words are physical activity and physical exertion - I think most want only the ones that demonstrate "exertion" - no problem there - then golf would not be a sport.
But sure has been fun I need to drop by more often mike
<< <i>I, from an objective point of view, consider Professional Golf a sport - I do NOT play golf and any references to the weekend warriors with golf carts filled with Buds is just unfair and silly. >>
Why is that silly? You can play this 'sport' with such a cart and drinking beer. How is it unfair to bring that up?
<< <i>
Again, besides the tremendous skill, try walking up and down hills in 100 degree weather and see how you feel. >>
That's walking...that's not part of the game of golf. The walking part is optional! You don't have to walk to 'play' golf.
<< <i> And BTW, based on your thinking - if I were to dissect certain sports - then punters and place kickers are not really involved in a sport - they rarely get hit and heck, some place kickers in the 70s were fat! >>
But kicking is just a part of the sport of football...it's not all there is to it. Unlike golf, the walking part is optional...
Now you are arguing semantics...saying 'well you walk in 100 degree heat' like it's a requirement to participate in golf. It's not.
<< <i>I, from an objective point of view, consider Professional Golf a sport - I do NOT play golf and any references to the weekend warriors with golf carts filled with Buds is just unfair and silly. >>
Ax Sometimes I think you just enjoy arguing.
Reread the comment - I am referring to Professional Golf and I'm saying - to compare weekend golf with a golf cart to what the professionals do is being argumentative. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point - if you are JUST referring to weekend golf and whether it's a sport? That would be a different debate. Then, my bad - I'm sorry for misunderstanding.
Walking in the pros is NOT optional - my reference to splitting hairs with who does what in football was being facetious - I was doing the same thing you are doing with the argument about whether professional golf is a sport.
I listed the definitions of a sport for you - if you want to discuss this - fine. If you just want to argue - tell me now. Then I'll take a hike - I think you know me well enough that I don't get involved that way.
<< <i>[ Walking in the pros is NOT optional - my reference to splitting hairs with who does what in football was being facetious - I was doing the same thing you are doing with the argument about whether professional golf is a sport. >>
My point of contention is that walking isn't a part of the game of golf. And the pros don't carry their bags, that's what they have caddies for.
Yes walking a course can be strenuous exercise. But that still doesn't make golf a sport to me. I am sorry that this point has hit so close to home for so many people (why else would so many people so adamant in their defense of their view?).
Yes, some golfers are incredible athletes. But that doesn't mean they are playing a sport. Just like there are some billiards players in incredible shape (Black Widow anybody)? That doesn't mean they play a sport.
As far as the textbook definition of a 'sport', both bowling and billiards would be considered sports...and I don't think there are many people who would consider them sports.
Mac, good to see you are contibuting nothing as usual to the conversation. Keep it up!
how the hell does one get to the tee? or to the putting green? FLY??
>>
Oh god are you kidding me? Even you can't be so dense as to think I meant that. I was speaking of the posts that said that walking the course was what made it a sport. Jeez.
<< <i> your not?
ohh yeah i remm 1 other guy outta 30 that have replied to this thread agreed with you. how i dont know. for the life of me i dont know. >>
So if ONE person agrees with me, then that would mean I'm NOT alone, right?
And with you one never knows. Yes I took your speel about the walking LIKE YOU do to everyone else. So either you are THICK ar are like I was and took you literaly
Im gonna give you some advice. This fall when you enter the 10th grade ask your gym teacher if golf is a sport. OK?
now what is gonna be your next brilliant reply regarding this or any other thread?
<< <i>why else would so many people so adamant in their defense of their view?). >>
No more adamant than you are being Ax.
I get your point and it's time for me to move on.
Final analysis: I choose to have a "broad" worldly view of what a sport is - and that's what put ESPN on the map.
You choose to view sports from a narrow high school "jock" view where if a guy isn't blowing out a liver or being slam dunked to the floor, profusely sweating, they are not engaged in sport.
And pool in a "broad" sense is a sport and that's the reason they carry it on ESPN - granted it's more of an entertainment sport but in the classic sense - billiard players were included in sports card sets.
And last, try taking a 16 pound ball and tossing it down a lane for about 5 hours straight - let me know how you're doing?
<< <i> Final analysis: I choose to have a "broad" worldly view of what a sport is - and that's what put ESPN on the map.
You choose to view sports from a narrow high school "jock" view where if a guy isn't blowing out a liver or being slam dunked to the floor, profusely sweating, they are not engaged in sport. >>
I too have a broad view of what constitutes a sport, but for the life of me I cannot accept that golf is a sport. Sorry, there is no dictionary definition, nothing that will tell me that it's a sport. To me, it's no more a sport than poker or playing video games.
<< <i> And pool in a "broad" sense is a sport and that's the reason they carry it on ESPN - granted it's more of an entertainment sport but in the classic sense - billiard players were included in sports card sets. >>
They show poker on ESPN too. That makes it a sport, no?
<< <i> And last, try taking a 16 pound ball and tossing it down a lane for about 5 hours straight - let me know how you're doing? >>
And when do bowlers bowl for 16 hours straight? Now you're telling me bowlers are athletes?
It's apparent that golf is the sacred cow of sports that many upper class men use to escape their suburban dreary lives and get with their friends and drink some beer - I have no problem with that whatsoever. But to classify any form of golf, even at the pro level, a sport is just not accurate to me.
I have my opinions (obviously), you have yours (obviously). This is one of those debates with no chance of changing anyone's mind either way.
It's apparent that golf is the sacred cow of sports that many upper class men use to escape their suburban dreary lives and get with their friends and drink some beer
I doubt if someone searched the "Sports Talk" forum they would not find where I ever posted because I normally confine my comments and activities to the OF.......
Anyway I thought I would venture over here to see if there were any Tiger fans, or Golfing inthusiest besides myself.... Well after spending the last 30 minutes reading this entire thread it seems to me that maybe there are a couple of you that have played a few rounds, and possibly have watched a few PGA tournaments on tv....
Now that I have all of that out of the way and without going in to some long lengthy diatribe about the 30 plus years that I've played golf, and the fact that when I was an active golfer I was a scratch golfer that held no handicap at the end of my golfing days, and have actually played with some of the pro's including John Daly right here in my hometown. Those who think golfing is not a sport and it doesn't take physical stamina to play the game and walk anywhere from 3 to 6 miles over hills in 100+ heat, fighting off Mosquitos, controlling your temper when you bogey a hole when you should have birdied it, and the skill and practice it takes to hit that little Balata golf ball 300 yards down the fairway and keep it there, and then take a wedge out and try to hit it another 100 yards or so to within a few feet of the pin set at a precarious position on the green that undulates in various directions and then take your putter out and knock the ball within a few inches of the hole by controlling the speed of said ball, and perhaps with a little luck it fall in the hole on your first putt.... Now if you don't think all of this is a sport, and does not take athletic ability and much practice and precision, then you don't know a damn thing about the sport/game of golf whatsoever!
I could go on and on but I won't no need because only a few of you that are reading this even have a clue to what I'm talking about so it is pointless, and non debatable. Yes I am a big fan of Tigers, but also of Annika, and also Michelle Wie. I don't discriminate because of gender. When you're as good and proficient as these three are, you're at the top of your game, and it has taken many years to get this good.
Just one more thing........ "Axtell" before you try to argue or discuss a subject you need to do your homework first and not try to discuss something with those who do know what they're talking about because if you don't it makes you look like a total fool!
<< <i>It's apparent that golf is the sacred cow of sports that many upper class men use to escape their suburban dreary lives and get with their friends and drink some beer - I have no problem with that whatsoever. But to classify any form of golf, even at the pro level, a sport is just not accurate to me. >>
Ax I NEVER intended for you to accept my point of view or definitions. We were having a fun debate. I respect your POV also. Where in my conversation did I demand you see it my way.
I told you how I saw your POV and feelings about what a sport were. I was just having some fun.
Now let's get serious. Your statment about upper class - you sound like one bitter guy. And your statement is so narrow minded that this part doesn't require a response - since it will obviously be unintelligent.
And as Steve said - read carefully and then respond. You don't have to accept pool, bowling or golf as a sport. We live in a democracy.
But POV doesn't extent to your poor attitude toward other people - especially your upper class statement - when I was in college, I did play a bit of golf with friends - it was in Ohio and we played in courses around the tri-state area to include W. Va. - you would be surprised how many people who worked in the mills in the area were out there every weekend playing golf. NOT talking the sport rhetoric here - I'm talking about respect for all people - that doesn't require a webster definition.
If you are unhappy and bitter toward "certain" groups of people - why not kindly keep it to yourself.
great reply Puff only.......I could go on and on but I won't no need because only a few of you that are reading this even have a clue to what I'm talking about so it is pointless,
Im thinking everyone knew what you were talking about, save for 1 individual, possibly 2.
<< <i>Just one more thing........ "Axtell" before you try to argue or discuss a subject you need to do your homework first and not try to discuss something with those who do know what they're talking about because if you don't it makes you look like a total fool! >>
Well you make it sound like I've never played a round of golf in my life. And yes, I've walked the entire course, with no cart, carrying my own clubs thank you, in 90+ heat. I still don't consider it a sport.
While I respect you having played the game of golf for as long as you have, it's still a game to me. It always will be.
<< <i> But POV doesn't extent to your poor attitude toward other people - especially your upper class statement - when I was in college, I did play a bit of golf with friends - it was in Ohio and we played in courses around the tri-state area to include W. Va. - you would be surprised how many people who worked in the mills in the area were out there every weekend playing golf. NOT talking the sport rhetoric here - I'm talking about respect for all people - that doesn't require a webster definition.
If you are unhappy and bitter toward "certain" groups of people - why not kindly keep it to yourself. >>
I am not unhappy or bitter towards anyone.
But if you don't think that an overwhelming majority of golfers in this country aren't white and in the upper class income wise, then I don't know what to tell you.
<< <i>golf is the sacred cow of sports that many upper class men use to escape their suburban dreary lives and get with their friends and drink some beer >>
Well, I can agree with that. I took a picture of the upper class men I played golf with last week.
Yes I do know exactly what you were saying, or what you thought you said. the fact remains in your twisted little arrogant mind you chose to reply and claim that mike was wrong! that is the bottom line. you were all giddy with the fact that he made a statement and that you could shoot it down. only problem was your an idiot and you failed.
Well you make it sound like I've never played a round of golf in my life. And yes, I've walked the entire course, with no cart, carrying my own clubs thank you, in 90+ heat. I still don't consider it a sport.
<< <i>Yes I do know exactly what you were saying, or what you thought you said. the fact remains in your twisted little arrogant mind you chose to reply and claim that mike was wrong! that is the bottom line. you were all giddy with the fact that he made a statement and that you could shoot it down. only problem was your an idiot and you failed.
sd >>
I am not giddy with anything. Just because you are able to achieve cheap thrills like that, doesn't mean everyone can.
I simply rebutted his statement that he made about bowling for 5 hours. That's all. Just because you don't seem to comprehend how a debate actually works, that's what happens.
Stone and I have chatted and butted heads before, but I don't consider him 'wrong' or anything of the sort...but when you post such ridiculous and flame-inducing comments like the one above (attempting to sway opinion against me), it just makes you look foolish.
<< <i>Well you make it sound like I've never played a round of golf in my life. And yes, I've walked the entire course, with no cart, carrying my own clubs thank you, in 90+ heat. I still don't consider it a sport.
Ax, sure you weren't playing miniature golf ? >>
I hope not! If that's the case, then I sucked at it! haha
Hey don't knock the mini golf by the way...some of those courses are rough!
<< <i>upper class men use to escape their suburban dreary lives and get with their friends and drink some beer - >>
Ax We have butted heads - I don't mind - as long as we keep it relevant to a topic and in nonpersonal terms.
Referring to upper class and dreary is just the most condescending thing to say.
Just because we are in the middel class, doesn't give us the right to take an attitude like that!
What are you aspiring to attain? Lower class?
Who do you offend? Obviously people who are not here to defend themselves from statements like yours. Do you truly believe there isn't "attitude" in your wording? How do you know that their lives are dreary?
Now - bowling - there are city tournaments as well as Pro tour events where individuals will be bowling for extending periods of time - and this doesn't include practice - many bowlers practice for at least 3-4 hours a day on their game.
Lastly, it seems you speak of things you know very little about, you make implicit and explicit value statements on the lives of people you know nothing about.
I think you fall into the category of often wrong but never in doubt.
I think you fall into the category of often wrong but never in doubt. >>
I think you'd find me right more often than not.
Now as far as opinions go, how can someone have a 'wrong' opinion? You can't.
If I say 'that movie sucked' then to me, that movie sucked. Just because you like it, doesn't make my opinion of that movie invalid.
So when I say things like 'golf isn't a sport' that is my opinion. I will back it up with anecodatal evidence such as the fact that golf is playable by using golf carts. That the walking of the course doesn't define the sport, and so on.
You may counter back with reflections of the athletic prowess needed to play such a game...and so on and so on.
We both hold our opinions, we both debate them vigorously, but does that make either of us wrong?
It's become obvious to me - and this is an OPINION - that you are not here to enjoy your time but to be a petulent child with an attitude.
I can see the difference - you don't enjoy your time with us - this about you scoring points. I have dealt with people like you my entire life. Don't try to hide behind some crap about opinion.
I see thru you clearly - this is no longer about sports - this is about how Ax can make himself look good.
Try demonstrating knowledge with some respect and then see how people respond.
If you believe my statement about often wrong is incorrect - for that I apologize - maybe I'm over stating my point - JUST LIKE YOU DID WHEN YOU INDICTED A WHOLE GROUP OF PEOPLE BY REFERRING TO THEIR LIVES AS DREARY - like I'm some dumb schmuck and can't read between the lines about your attitude.
You need to play that happy game over at the Beckett Boards - it won't fly here - there's more intelligence here.
Comments
<< <i>
Axtell - evidently in golf you must have hit a hole-in-one on each hole that you ever played, and you decided it was such an easy game that it couldn't be a sport. This is about the only way I can figure that someone who says they have played golf, could not think it was a sport. Tell Michael Jordan and other top athletes who play golf that it is not a sport - they will totally laugh at you. >>
Look, this will be my last golf-isn't-a-sport comment:
I don't consider activity with little to no physical activitiy a sport. When someone like John Daly, who couldn't perform any athletic activity, and he can excel, that's not a sport. When the physical activity part of your game is walking, and has no relevance to the game you're playing, that's not a sport. When you can play the game until you're 70 and then some, it's not a sport.
I am not saying it doesn't require skill. It requires hand-eye coordination. But then so does playing video games. I don't see either as a sport.
I know that there are many golfers on this board, and those are probably the ones who are screaming the loudest at me and my views. For those who are lashing out at me simply because I choose not to concede that your game is a sport, relax. I find it humorous that you are so adamant that your game is a sport, that you have to rant and yell at someone who expresses his opinion it's not a sport at all.
SPORT:
Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
A particular form of this activity.
An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
An active pastime; recreation
Did you ever try to hit a 250 yard drive? Or come out of the sand 50 yards out? Or walk a long 18 with golf bag on your back in 90 degree heat?
My guess is no, otherwise you would recognize there is more than "little" physical activity involved.
Bowling on a professional level is a sport - not my favorite - but try chucking a 16 pound ball down the lanes for a few hours on end - then tell me which part of your body hurts the most?
All sporting events take some kind of skill and stamina. There's very little I haven't tried and very little I was any good at.
I have respect for all that attempt to excel.
mike
That's an over-simplification of golf IMO. The pros do "walk" and in 100 degree weather. And the ones that are winning today are in better condition and do take their sport seriously.
I would agree that different sports require different types of conditioning - heck some baseball players need a transfusion and 2 liters of oxygen after sliding into 3rd with a triple!LOL
I have this feelin that your brand of golf is an apple and Tiger's brand is an orange.
But, I do understand what you are saying - in a general sense, I feel the same way. I'm just trying to be objective and look at the sport. And, finally, look at Annika - she is about as fit as they come - and that's probably why she's winning so much.
mike
Axtey, is Poker a sport? It looks like ESPN thinks so. LOL
Linky
<< <i>I have this feelin that your brand of golf is an apple and Tiger's brand is an orange. >>
No doubt, Mike - I wasn't trying to equate my business golf outings with Tiger Woods professional golf playing - clearly he is on another planet of skill level compared to just about anyone else who participates in golf. This subject clearly strikes a nerve with the golf players among us, and I am not trying to offend anyone - but, there are people at the top of their skill level at many activities (billiards, bowling, etc.) who have a master's level of ability in that activity, but I find it to be a major stretch of the word "athlete" to include them with conventional athletes.
<< <i>but I find it to be a major stretch of the word "athlete" to include them with conventional athletes. >>
Good point
There's no tackling in golf and I've never seen anyone "sack the putter" - but to be truthful, there's a lot of standing around, scratching and spitting in baseball - not exactly taxing to the body either.
I do agree tho, Tiger will never have to worry about being spiked at second, colliding into at home or hit by a pitch - so in that "conventional" sense, you're correct - but that still doesn't rule out referring to professional golf as a sport in a broader - ultra conventional sense.
I do see your point. Just to close tho - the guys that are winning more in golf are staying in shape and are athletes in that sense of the word.
Good discussion
mike
You also made some comment about age being a factor in considering golfers as atheletes....you knucklehead. Arnold Palmer and Sam Hogan kept winning tournaments into their 60's because they were superb atheletes. Per your attitude, they would have been sitting around playing poker.
Kool Aid, Kool Aid tastes great...wish I had some, can't wait.
For anyone to think that players like Tiger, or Mickelson, or the like are in better shape than most everyone is wrong.
That being said: IT DOESN'T TAKE PHYSICAL PROWESS TO PLAY GOLF. You say so when you mention Palmer and Hogan winning tournaments into their 60s. How many 60 year old football players are in the NFL? What about 60 year old MLB players? I thank you for making my point crystal clear.
John Daly could kick my ass? What's he going to do? Sit on me? And since when does the ability to kick someone's ass warrant what kind of athlete he is? Stupid comment my friend.
I suspect dirty harry and the like who are so rabidly against the thought that golf isn't a sport are the ones who play it most often, with their buddies, drinking beers, thinking they are still 'athletes' retelling stories about that time in high school, or college, or whatever.
Look, I am obviously not alone in my opinion of golf not being a sport. Why do you all take it so personally? I, like ctsox, can't help but believe you wouldn't take it so personally if you didn't think I was referring to YOU not playing a sport.
You sure do like that 'golf-is-a-sport-and-I'm-still-an-athlete' kool aid huh? I am sure you'll be telling your golfing buddies about 'this guy on this message board says golf isn't a sport! What a buffoon!'
Axtell - this is the first thing you said in this whole thread that was correct - LOL
<< <i><<< I am sure you'll be telling your golfing buddies about 'this guy on this message board says golf isn't a sport! What a buffoon!' >>>
Axtell - this is the first thing you said in this whole thread that was correct - LOL >>
Figured you were an 'athlete' who thinks he's 'still in the game!' when he's out on the course (driving a cart...you know you aren't walking it) drinking a 12 pack each by the time 18 holes are done.
As usual your posts go aff into all different tangents. The bottom line here is a simple one.
You said that Golf is not a sport.
it is.
regardless if it is recreational, or pro. IT IS SPORT
as is fishing
SD
I think this can be construed as saying they aint in shape.
SD
No? I have seen a few putters take a beating after missing a short putt!
SD
edited to add:
Golfers also send their putters airborne as well as underwater...as when a putter goes flying into the lake after four putting the 18th - LOL
<< <i>Golf is a sport? So golfers are athletes? Uhm, when someone like John Daly can participate and do well, it's NOT a sport. >>
I've seen some boxers with Daly's physique, Butterbean or whatever his name is comes to mind. Does that making boxing not a sport? I guess John Kruk didn't play baseball, or wasn't an athlete, or was it that baseball wasn't a sport? A sport cannot be defined by the certain participants physical stature.
Again, besides the tremendous skill, try walking up and down hills in 100 degree weather and see how you feel.
And BTW, based on your thinking - if I were to dissect certain sports - then punters and place kickers are not really involved in a sport - they rarely get hit and heck, some place kickers in the 70s were fat!
In a narrow sense, I can see someone eliminating certain sports because they are just not "busy" enough for them or demonstrate enough physical endurance or prowess but like it or not, golf is a sport.
Sport:
1. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
Both of these definitions are in the dictionary - the operative words are physical activity and physical exertion - I think most want only the ones that demonstrate "exertion" - no problem there - then golf would not be a sport.
But sure has been fun
I need to drop by more often
mike
<< <i>I, from an objective point of view, consider Professional Golf a sport - I do NOT play golf and any references to the weekend warriors with golf carts filled with Buds is just unfair and silly. >>
Why is that silly? You can play this 'sport' with such a cart and drinking beer. How is it unfair to bring that up?
<< <i>
Again, besides the tremendous skill, try walking up and down hills in 100 degree weather and see how you feel.
>>
That's walking...that's not part of the game of golf. The walking part is optional! You don't have to walk to 'play' golf.
<< <i>
And BTW, based on your thinking - if I were to dissect certain sports - then punters and place kickers are not really involved in a sport - they rarely get hit and heck, some place kickers in the 70s were fat!
>>
But kicking is just a part of the sport of football...it's not all there is to it. Unlike golf, the walking part is optional...
Now you are arguing semantics...saying 'well you walk in 100 degree heat' like it's a requirement to participate in golf. It's not.
<< <i>Look, this will be my last golf-isn't-a-sport comment: >>
<< <i>I, from an objective point of view, consider Professional Golf a sport - I do NOT play golf and any references to the weekend warriors with golf carts filled with Buds is just unfair and silly. >>
Ax
Sometimes I think you just enjoy arguing.
Reread the comment - I am referring to Professional Golf and I'm saying - to compare weekend golf with a golf cart to what the professionals do is being argumentative. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point - if you are JUST referring to weekend golf and whether it's a sport? That would be a different debate. Then, my bad - I'm sorry for misunderstanding.
Walking in the pros is NOT optional - my reference to splitting hairs with who does what in football was being facetious - I was doing the same thing you are doing with the argument about whether professional golf is a sport.
I listed the definitions of a sport for you - if you want to discuss this - fine. If you just want to argue - tell me now. Then I'll take a hike - I think you know me well enough that I don't get involved that way.
mike
<< <i>[
Walking in the pros is NOT optional - my reference to splitting hairs with who does what in football was being facetious - I was doing the same thing you are doing with the argument about whether professional golf is a sport.
>>
My point of contention is that walking isn't a part of the game of golf. And the pros don't carry their bags, that's what they have caddies for.
Yes walking a course can be strenuous exercise. But that still doesn't make golf a sport to me. I am sorry that this point has hit so close to home for so many people (why else would so many people so adamant in their defense of their view?).
Yes, some golfers are incredible athletes. But that doesn't mean they are playing a sport. Just like there are some billiards players in incredible shape (Black Widow anybody)? That doesn't mean they play a sport.
As far as the textbook definition of a 'sport', both bowling and billiards would be considered sports...and I don't think there are many people who would consider them sports.
Mac, good to see you are contibuting nothing as usual to the conversation. Keep it up!
man you are somthing!
how the hell does one get to the tee? or to the putting green? FLY??
.
edited to add: people's answers have nothing to do with if they play it or not. .
Look, I am obviously not alone in my opinion of golf not being a sport.
your not?
ohh yeah i remm 1 other guy outta 30 that have replied to this thread agreed with you. how i dont know. for the life of me i dont know.
<< <i>You don't have to walk to 'play' golf.
man you are somthing!
how the hell does one get to the tee? or to the putting green? FLY??
>>
Oh god are you kidding me? Even you can't be so dense as to think I meant that. I was speaking of the posts that said that walking the course was what made it a sport. Jeez.
<< <i>
your not?
ohh yeah i remm 1 other guy outta 30 that have replied to this thread agreed with you. how i dont know. for the life of me i dont know. >>
So if ONE person agrees with me, then that would mean I'm NOT alone, right?
How pathetic is your life, WP?
And with you one never knows. Yes I took your speel about the walking LIKE YOU do to everyone else. So either you are THICK ar are like I was and took you literaly
Im gonna give you some advice. This fall when you enter the 10th grade ask your gym teacher if golf is a sport. OK?
now what is gonna be your next brilliant reply regarding this or any other thread?
<< <i>why else would so many people so adamant in their defense of their view?). >>
No more adamant than you are being Ax.
I get your point and it's time for me to move on.
Final analysis: I choose to have a "broad" worldly view of what a sport is - and that's what put ESPN on the map.
You choose to view sports from a narrow high school "jock" view where if a guy isn't blowing out a liver or being slam dunked to the floor, profusely sweating, they are not engaged in sport.
And pool in a "broad" sense is a sport and that's the reason they carry it on ESPN - granted it's more of an entertainment sport but in the classic sense - billiard players were included in sports card sets.
And last, try taking a 16 pound ball and tossing it down a lane for about 5 hours straight - let me know how you're doing?
thanx
mike
ROFLMAO! that is great!
<< <i>
Final analysis: I choose to have a "broad" worldly view of what a sport is - and that's what put ESPN on the map.
You choose to view sports from a narrow high school "jock" view where if a guy isn't blowing out a liver or being slam dunked to the floor, profusely sweating, they are not engaged in sport.
>>
I too have a broad view of what constitutes a sport, but for the life of me I cannot accept that golf is a sport. Sorry, there is no dictionary definition, nothing that will tell me that it's a sport. To me, it's no more a sport than poker or playing video games.
<< <i>
And pool in a "broad" sense is a sport and that's the reason they carry it on ESPN - granted it's more of an entertainment sport but in the classic sense - billiard players were included in sports card sets.
>>
They show poker on ESPN too. That makes it a sport, no?
<< <i>
And last, try taking a 16 pound ball and tossing it down a lane for about 5 hours straight - let me know how you're doing?
>>
And when do bowlers bowl for 16 hours straight? Now you're telling me bowlers are athletes?
It's apparent that golf is the sacred cow of sports that many upper class men use to escape their suburban dreary lives and get with their friends and drink some beer - I have no problem with that whatsoever. But to classify any form of golf, even at the pro level, a sport is just not accurate to me.
I have my opinions (obviously), you have yours (obviously). This is one of those debates with no chance of changing anyone's mind either way.
I suggest you take a reading comprehension course as that statement was never made.
SD
golf is the sacred cow of sports
not quite but your right it is a sport.
Anyway I thought I would venture over here to see if there were any Tiger fans, or Golfing inthusiest besides myself.... Well after spending the last 30 minutes reading this entire thread it seems to me that maybe there are a couple of you that have played a few rounds, and possibly have watched a few PGA tournaments on tv....
Now that I have all of that out of the way and without going in to some long lengthy diatribe about the 30 plus years that I've played golf, and the fact that when I was an active golfer I was a scratch golfer that held no handicap at the end of my golfing days, and have actually played with some of the pro's including John Daly right here in my hometown. Those who think golfing is not a sport and it doesn't take physical stamina to play the game and walk anywhere from 3 to 6 miles over hills in 100+ heat, fighting off Mosquitos, controlling your temper when you bogey a hole when you should have birdied it, and the skill and practice it takes to hit that little Balata golf ball 300 yards down the fairway and keep it there, and then take a wedge out and try to hit it another 100 yards or so to within a few feet of the pin set at a precarious position on the green that undulates in various directions and then take your putter out and knock the ball within a few inches of the hole by controlling the speed of said ball, and perhaps with a little luck it fall in the hole on your first putt.... Now if you don't think all of this is a sport, and does not take athletic ability and much practice and precision, then you don't know a damn thing about the sport/game of golf whatsoever!
I could go on and on but I won't no need because only a few of you that are reading this even have a clue to what I'm talking about so it is pointless, and non debatable. Yes I am a big fan of Tigers, but also of Annika, and also Michelle Wie. I don't discriminate because of gender. When you're as good and proficient as these three are, you're at the top of your game, and it has taken many years to get this good.
Just one more thing........ "Axtell" before you try to argue or discuss a subject you need to do your homework first and not try to discuss something with those who do know what they're talking about because if you don't it makes you look like a total fool!
Good night all!
<< <i>It's apparent that golf is the sacred cow of sports that many upper class men use to escape their suburban dreary lives and get with their friends and drink some beer - I have no problem with that whatsoever. But to classify any form of golf, even at the pro level, a sport is just not accurate to me. >>
Ax
I NEVER intended for you to accept my point of view or definitions. We were having a fun debate. I respect your POV also. Where in my conversation did I demand you see it my way.
I told you how I saw your POV and feelings about what a sport were. I was just having some fun.
Now let's get serious. Your statment about upper class - you sound like one bitter guy. And your statement is so narrow minded that this part doesn't require a response - since it will obviously be unintelligent.
And as Steve said - read carefully and then respond. You don't have to accept pool, bowling or golf as a sport. We live in a democracy.
But POV doesn't extent to your poor attitude toward other people - especially your upper class statement - when I was in college, I did play a bit of golf with friends - it was in Ohio and we played in courses around the tri-state area to include W. Va. - you would be surprised how many people who worked in the mills in the area were out there every weekend playing golf. NOT talking the sport rhetoric here - I'm talking about respect for all people - that doesn't require a webster definition.
If you are unhappy and bitter toward "certain" groups of people - why not kindly keep it to yourself.
Im thinking everyone knew what you were talking about, save for 1 individual, possibly 2.
SD
<< <i>And when do bowlers bowl for 16 hours straight?
I suggest you take a reading comprehension course as that statement was never made.
SD >>
Oh good god I made a mistake! Jump on the fact I typed 16 instead of 5.
Is that your end game WP? If so you better go home!
what exactly were you saying???
SD
edited to add
and with the replies you got that was the best you could offer? puffy and stone both had replies. you chose mine. wonder why?
COMPREHENSION you lack (among other things)
<< <i>Just one more thing........ "Axtell" before you try to argue or discuss a subject you need to do your homework first and not try to discuss something with those who do know what they're talking about because if you don't it makes you look like a total fool!
>>
Well you make it sound like I've never played a round of golf in my life. And yes, I've walked the entire course, with no cart, carrying my own clubs thank you, in 90+ heat. I still don't consider it a sport.
While I respect you having played the game of golf for as long as you have, it's still a game to me. It always will be.
You, too, have a good night!
<< <i>So are you saying that bowlers DO NOT BOWL for 5 hrs then???
what exactly were you saying???
>>
Someone posted 'try bowling for 5 hours straight'. Since when are bowlers throwing balls down the lane non stop for 5 hours?
Please...you know exactly what I was saying...I can't help it if you are the one with reading comprehension problems.
As far as why I chose yours first WP, because replying to your posts takes all of 30 seconds to do so, where Puff actually had something to say.
<< <i>
But POV doesn't extent to your poor attitude toward other people - especially your upper class statement - when I was in college, I did play a bit of golf with friends - it was in Ohio and we played in courses around the tri-state area to include W. Va. - you would be surprised how many people who worked in the mills in the area were out there every weekend playing golf. NOT talking the sport rhetoric here - I'm talking about respect for all people - that doesn't require a webster definition.
If you are unhappy and bitter toward "certain" groups of people - why not kindly keep it to yourself. >>
I am not unhappy or bitter towards anyone.
But if you don't think that an overwhelming majority of golfers in this country aren't white and in the upper class income wise, then I don't know what to tell you.
And who was I disrespecting?
<< <i>golf is the sacred cow of sports that many upper class men use to escape their suburban dreary lives and get with their friends and drink some beer >>
Well, I can agree with that. I took a picture of the upper class men I played golf with last week.
Woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo. Nyuck nyuck nyuck nyuck nyuck nyuck.
that is the bottom line. you were all giddy with the fact that he made a statement and that you could shoot it down. only problem was your an idiot and you failed.
what else can i say?
sd
Ax, sure you weren't playing miniature golf ?
<< <i>Yes I do know exactly what you were saying, or what you thought you said. the fact remains in your twisted little arrogant mind you chose to reply and claim that mike was wrong!
that is the bottom line. you were all giddy with the fact that he made a statement and that you could shoot it down. only problem was your an idiot and you failed.
sd >>
I am not giddy with anything. Just because you are able to achieve cheap thrills like that, doesn't mean everyone can.
I simply rebutted his statement that he made about bowling for 5 hours. That's all. Just because you don't seem to comprehend how a debate actually works, that's what happens.
Stone and I have chatted and butted heads before, but I don't consider him 'wrong' or anything of the sort...but when you post such ridiculous and flame-inducing comments like the one above (attempting to sway opinion against me), it just makes you look foolish.
<< <i>Well you make it sound like I've never played a round of golf in my life. And yes, I've walked the entire course, with no cart, carrying my own clubs thank you, in 90+ heat. I still don't consider it a sport.
Ax, sure you weren't playing miniature golf ?
I hope not! If that's the case, then I sucked at it! haha
Hey don't knock the mini golf by the way...some of those courses are rough!
Speaking of that, is miniature golf a sport too?
I simply pointed out that you did not comprehend what someone said...you chose to keep it aflame.
sd
<< <i>upper class men use to escape their suburban dreary lives and get with their friends and drink some beer - >>
Ax
We have butted heads - I don't mind - as long as we keep it relevant to a topic and in nonpersonal terms.
Referring to upper class and dreary is just the most condescending thing to say.
Just because we are in the middel class, doesn't give us the right to take an attitude like that!
What are you aspiring to attain? Lower class?
Who do you offend? Obviously people who are not here to defend themselves from statements like yours.
Do you truly believe there isn't "attitude" in your wording? How do you know that their lives are dreary?
Now - bowling - there are city tournaments as well as Pro tour events where individuals will be bowling for extending periods of time - and this doesn't include practice - many bowlers practice for at least 3-4 hours a day on their game.
Lastly, it seems you speak of things you know very little about, you make implicit and explicit value statements on the lives of people you know nothing about.
I think you fall into the category of often wrong but never in doubt.
<< <i>
I think you fall into the category of often wrong but never in doubt. >>
I think you'd find me right more often than not.
Now as far as opinions go, how can someone have a 'wrong' opinion? You can't.
If I say 'that movie sucked' then to me, that movie sucked. Just because you like it, doesn't make my opinion of that movie invalid.
So when I say things like 'golf isn't a sport' that is my opinion. I will back it up with anecodatal evidence such as the fact that golf is playable by using golf carts. That the walking of the course doesn't define the sport, and so on.
You may counter back with reflections of the athletic prowess needed to play such a game...and so on and so on.
We both hold our opinions, we both debate them vigorously, but does that make either of us wrong?
You're spinning your ass off right now.
I'm no longer talking about sports or opinions.
I'm talking about your poor attitude.
It's become obvious to me - and this is an OPINION - that you are not here to enjoy your time but to be a petulent child with an attitude.
I can see the difference - you don't enjoy your time with us - this about you scoring points. I have dealt with people like you my entire life. Don't try to hide behind some crap about opinion.
I see thru you clearly - this is no longer about sports - this is about how Ax can make himself look good.
Try demonstrating knowledge with some respect and then see how people respond.
If you believe my statement about often wrong is incorrect - for that I apologize - maybe I'm over stating my point - JUST LIKE YOU DID WHEN YOU INDICTED A WHOLE GROUP OF PEOPLE BY REFERRING TO THEIR LIVES AS DREARY - like I'm some dumb schmuck and can't read between the lines about your attitude.
You need to play that happy game over at the Beckett Boards - it won't fly here - there's more intelligence here.