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Everyone drinking Tiger Kool Aid Again?
Axtell
Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
in Sports Talk
Isn't it funny how quickly the media and sportsfans in general are so easily swayed?
How many people (media somewhat, but 'fans' overwhelmingly so) were proclaiming Tiger as 'done' and his best days behind him. Yet he wins a major, then suddenly he's untouchable again.
I don't care either way (golf isn't a sport, and is incredibly pain-inducing to watch), but how can people allow themselves to be led around by the nose so easily?
How many people (media somewhat, but 'fans' overwhelmingly so) were proclaiming Tiger as 'done' and his best days behind him. Yet he wins a major, then suddenly he's untouchable again.
I don't care either way (golf isn't a sport, and is incredibly pain-inducing to watch), but how can people allow themselves to be led around by the nose so easily?
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Comments
No?
And I dont really think people are being led around by the nose as much as its the sportswriters needing something to write about and hoping to lead people around by their nose. Golf fans knew better.
Golf is a sport, and a tough one at that ...
As far as watching it, golf may be the most relaxing sport to watch - especially in the early part of the season when it is miserable outside. I live in the North East.
I never knew the media to say Tiger is done. He didn't win a major for awhile, and they asked if he was in a slump. That is all I recall. When Tiger briefly lost his #1 ranking, that was big news. Even Tiger cannot live up to the standards that the met has set for Tiger - he is basically supposed to win every match, or place second in the ones he doesn't win.
I will go on record as saying that Tiger Woods is the the most dominant sports figure (next to Babe Ruth) that this country has ever seen. Jordan and Gretzky are up there, but not one of them compares to what Tiger has done and will do.
<< <i>Isn't it funny how quickly the media and sportsfans in general are so easily swayed?
How many people (media somewhat, but 'fans' overwhelmingly so) were proclaiming Tiger as 'done' and his best days behind him. Yet he wins a major, then suddenly he's untouchable again.
I don't care either way (golf isn't a sport, and is incredibly pain-inducing to watch), but how can people allow themselves to be led around by the nose so easily? >>
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<< <i>
I will go on record as saying that Tiger Woods is the the most dominant sports figure (next to Babe Ruth) that this country has ever seen. Jordan and Gretzky are up there, but not one of them compares to what Tiger has done and will do. >>
2 points:
Golf is a sport? So golfers are athletes? Uhm, when someone like John Daly can participate and do well, it's NOT a sport.
As far as the most dominant sports figure this country has ever seen? I'd point to 2 current sports figures who are currently active who are far more dominating:
Annika Sorrentstam and Lance Armstrong (who both won ESPYs last night, by chance). Lance by winning the single most grueling athletic competition SIX (soon to be seven) years in a row screams out DOMINANCE. Annika winning half of the tournaments she's entered screams DOMINANCE.
Tiger is a great golfer, but to say he's one of the 2 most dominating sports figures ever is ignoring true dominance.
And Jordan and Gretzky not only dominated in their own right, but they elevated the game of those around them. I know in golf you don't have that aspect of it, but Jordan was out and out not only the best athlete of this generation, but WON...delivered 6 championships in 8 years, led his team to 70(!!!) wins in a season, etc. etc.
As good as Tiger is, there's no way he's even in that category.
I don't get it, is golf a sport in your eyes or not ?
<< <i>First you say Golf is not a sport but then you turn around and list Annika as one of two most dominating " sports " figures the country has ever seen
I don't get it, is golf a sport in your eyes or not ? >>
I was speaking to the fact that he said Tiger was the most dominating sports figure outside of Babe Ruth this country has ever seen. If he is going to put golf into his mix of 'sports', than overlooking what Annika is doing and not recognizing her accomplishments is pure folly.
No, golf isn't a sport. It's a game. Yes it uses hand eye cordination, but when players can be in the 'shape' of John Daly (is round a shape?), then your game isn't a sport.
<< <i>I was speaking to the fact that he said Tiger was the most dominating sports figure outside of Babe Ruth this country has ever seen. >>
I take Sports figure as not just the best at the game, but also as an ambassodor to the sport. Annika may be golfing well but she has no where near the impact our exposure of Tiger Woods. How many people outside of golf fans would recognize her on the street?
Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
A particular form of this activity.
An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
An active pastime; recreation
from dictionary.com
golf is a sport
Yes, John Daly is round, so was the Fridge, John Kruk, and Babe Ruth ... to name a few.
Tiger elevated golf more than Jordan and Gretzky elevated their games. That is an easy one. The ratings have climbed since the advent of Tiger, as well as the number of golfers - both black and white - who started to play within the past 6 years.
Tiger is also one cut mutha ... I would bet he is in as good of shape as many athletes.
<< <i>
I take Sports figure as not just the best at the game, but also as an ambassodor to the sport. Annika may be golfing well but she has no where near the impact our exposure of Tiger Woods. How many people outside of golf fans would recognize her on the street? >>
Is that her fault? Or the fact that women's golf isn't marketed as much as men's?
How many women athletes at all would be recognized on the street outside of Danica Patrick? The Williams' sisters? Hot, young russian tennis players, perhaps?
And you think Tiger is an ambassador to the sport? Besides his countless endorsement deals, what's he doing to be an ambassador?
Golf ratings are up because, well, hell they sucked to begin with, and yes he brought new life to the sport. But to say that Michael Jordan didn't have the impact on basketball that Tiger had on golf? Are you nuts?
<< <i>Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. >>
Uhm, what physical activity? Just because you walk from hole to hole, doesn't make the game of golf a sport.
<< <i>golf is a sport
Yes, John Daly is round, so was the Fridge, John Kruk, and Babe Ruth ... to name a few. >>
Babe Ruth was rail thin until late in his career. Most casual fans only know the images from late in his career, as photograph equipment became more and more prevalent. Just look at his sportscards from his early playing days.
The fridge was a big guy, but isn't that to be said of countless players in the NFL? You are equating playing in the trenches of an NFL game to golf, saying they are equal? Come on now.
<< <i>But to say that Michael Jordan didn't have the impact on basketball that Tiger had on golf? Are you nuts? >>
I didn't say that, but I would say they are pretty even. Tiger may not do anything to be an ambassador but his popularity makes him one, doing Nike commercials makes him one. As 1420 said he has brought amazing popularity to the sport.
<< <i>Is that her fault? Or the fact that women's golf isn't marketed as much as men's? >>
It doesn't matter if her fault or not women sports (except for possibly tennis) are not as popular as men's so she is not going to be torch carrier of golf that Tiger is. If they thought woman's golf could be marketed I'm sure they would try, heck knows they tried to market the WNBA. I think Michelle Wie will be more heavily marketed then Annika because of her age.
I am not sure where the disconnect is happening here - you state that because women's golf (or Annika) isn't popular, that somehow that takes away from her ability to be the most dominating sports figure? Her ability on the course and how many events she's won, how far head and shoulders she is above everyone else is taken away because she doesn't do endorsement deals?
<< <i>you state that because women's golf (or Annika) isn't popular, that somehow that takes away from her ability to be the most dominating sports figure? >>
Pretty much, if you go back to where this started I said Sports figure means more then just the best in your sport, in other words an athlete's overall popularity and exposure. People care about men's golf much more then woman's, and Tiger's dominance over it was much more captivating then Annika's. There is much more history he's competing against. Hale Irwin dominates Senior golf, but the point is most people don't care, they care about most popular segment of the sport the PGA.
He held a clinic in my town a couple of years ago. Only youth could attend. When it was done they gave a check for $100K to develop youth golfing leagues.
I think that qualifies as being an ambassador, especially for his sport.
A lot of people get defensive about this, because a lot of us play golf - it is probably the only sport a lot of guys can still play anymore as they get older. So, to call the game of golf not a sport, is like saying "You are too old for sporting activity anymore". But - that's just the way it is.
<< <i>in other words an athlete's overall popularity and exposure. >>
But how does that determine how dominant she is on the course? She's arguably the greatest golfer ever...in this era of ALL golfers benefitting from the technological advances and advances in nutrition and training, she's light years ahead of her nearest rival.
That's not the case with Tiger. He's very, very good but he hasn't taken over the sport, nor has he as long, as Annika has.
CTsox I agree that you have a lot of people getting defensive, and doing so because they participate.
<< <i>But how does that determine how dominant she is on the course? >>
I'll put this as plainly as I can, very few people care about woman sports so I don't care how dominant she is. You can argue that Lisa Leslie or some WNBA player was more dominant then Jordan if you want but no would care, because it's not the same competition. If you think Tiger Woods is not the most dominant male golfer of this era and the possiblility of all time you are drinking the wrong kool aid. I'm not a big Tiger fan myself but I do recognize what he has done for Golf and that is not comparable to Annika, it is comparable to the other great athletes of their sports.
<< <i>CTsox I agree that you have a lot of people getting defensive, and doing so because they participate. >>
Please, you wanted an arguement like you always do and I'm willing to go along. Nothing defensive about that just a difference of opinions.
I suspect both.
<< <i>For someone to state that golf is not a sport is either someone with complete ignorance of what sports is all about or someone who just wants to be agitating. I suspect in this case it's the latter. Games such as golf, billiards, bowling, etc., are all sports - this is not even debatable. These games are not as physically exerting as other sports but nevertheless they are sports - case closed. >>
Oh boy that was a good one.
Billiards is a sport? Bowling? Next you'll crack me up by saying that poker is a sport.
There is a difference between GAMES (the ones you mention, along with GOLF) and sports (baseball, cycling, etc.)
Golf requires little athletic ability - I'll say it again, when someone with the physique of John Daly can compete at the highest levels and do well, IT ISN'T A SPORT!
<< <i>
I'll put this as plainly as I can, very few people care about woman sports so I don't care how dominant she is.
<< <i>
You are letting your personal opinion get in the way. What else is new huh?
Just because YOU don't care about women's golf, that means that she can't be recognized as being truly dominant? My position on golf is well known, but to sit there and not recognize how absolutely dominant she has been for such a long period of time, and equate that to being more so dominant that Tiger is comical.
Is it that hard to admit a female athlete is so supremely talented? Is it that hard for you to admit that women actually can compete at the highest levels?
To me your comments reek of frat boy, 'boys are the best!' attitudes that have kept female athletics at bay for so long.
Another brilliant reply.............
SD
<< <i>and equate that to being more so dominant that Tiger is comical. >>
Comical? You have really lost it. Do you really think her numbers blow Tiger away? He's won more majors, and they've the same number of player of the year over the same time frame since 1997.
<< <i>To me your comments reek of frat boy, 'boys are the best!' attitudes that have kept female athletics at bay for so long. >>
True, I don't like to watch most women sports. So what are you doing to champion women's sports? By saying Annika is more dominating then Tiger? Is that your contribution?
As good as Tiger has been at stretches, I seriously doubt he's ever gone on a streak like that.
Anyways, it's apparent you have little to no respect for female athletics....so let's just agree to disagree on this one ok?
Axtell may be one of those types who either never played sports, or just played say High School Football and thinks everything else called "sports" is demeaning and for wusses. Pathetic attitude Axtell - you really need to become better informed about certain things.
Speaking from experience (which is probably more than can be said by many who are posting on this), it's ludicrous to think of golf as a sport. It's a GAME, as defined by the very same source that 1420 so eloquently posted his defintion of sport (dictionary.com):
"golf Audio pronunciation of "golf" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (glf, gôlf)
n.
A game played on a large outdoor course with a series of 9 or 18 holes spaced far apart, the object being to propel a small, hard ball with the use of various clubs into each hole with as few strokes as possible.
intr.v. golfed, golf·ing, golfs
To play this game."
Bold courtesy of me.
Poor attitude, that I don't think that golf is a sport? I think it's a poor attitude that so many golfers think they are 'athletes' because they play a game. If that's the case, let's start calling bowlers, poker players, and billiards players athletes.
I would think the dictionary definition is good enough to you 'athletes' (err, I mean golfers) who say that golfing is a sport, I hope?
no kidding?
baseball a game....
sd
<< <i>Golf a game.....
>>
Finally you agree with me...about time.
Axtell yes golf is game played by athletes, just like baseball.
Thanks for agreeing with me on that.
Sd
i know when i play I do as much walking as i can. and i tell ya after the 12 or 13th hole Id like to go and rest.
(usually have a big game that day)
but thats just me.
<< <i>Competitive golf does not require extensive stamina or conditioning, but it requires a skill level (extreme eye-hand coordination and timing) even beyond that of hitting a pitched baseball, and certainly beyond shooting a jump shot or sacking a quarterback. Golfers may not be football or basketball material, but they are athletes. Poker players and chess masters aren't, but golfers are. >>
So a sport requires hand eye coordination, is that what you're saying?
If hitting a baseball is so relatively easy, why are the greatest hitters EVER in the game only successful 1/3 of the time at it? If it's that easy, then getting to .400 should be cake?
Golfers are athletes? Exhibit A:
I am not saying it doesn't require skill to be a golfer. But it also requires skill and hand eye coordination to play video games. Are they athletes and is what they do a sport?
<< <i>Don't the pros walk the 18 holes?
i know when i play I do as much walking as i can. and i tell ya after the 12 or 13th hole Id like to go and rest.
(usually have a big game that day)
but thats just me. >>
Now you're reducing it to saying walking is the part of the game that makes it a sport?
Sad.
you form an opinion and when anyone shows a different one you for a lack of a better word POUT.
wha wha wha
<< <i>No actually i was rebutting where I think you said they used carts.
you form an opinion and when anyone shows a different one you for a lack of a better word POUT.
wha wha wha >>
There is one golfer who was allowed to used carts, Casey Martin (had a disability in his leg that made it difficult/impossible to walk the course).
So you'd say he's not athlete, and doesn't play the 'sport' because he gets to use a cart?
As far as the 'pouting' idea, when someone can show me empirical evidence to the contrary, then I am going to stick by my facts. If you can't handle that, then I don't know what to tell you, other than to say you obviously don't know how to prove your point.
Steve, POUT is very good word to describe Axtey. I think you got him in a snit for the rest of the evening.
where the hell do you get that from?
man you are somthing else.
You said they didnt use carts!
I rebutted you. cuz they do not! what the hell does that have to do with casey?
lol
I mean I know YOU take this board that seriously that you let it affect you personally, but does anyone else care one bit when someone else posts something negative about them?
lol no i would not say that
he is an athlete and he plays golf which is a sport.
comprende?
<<but does anyone else care one bit when someone else posts something negative about them?>>
You do, or you would ignore my posts and not go into your raving snit.
<< <i>There is one golfer who was allowed to used carts, Casey Martin (had a disability in his leg that made it difficult/impossible to walk the course).
where the hell do you get that from?
man you are somthing else.
You said they didnt use carts!
I rebutted you. cuz they do not! what the hell does that have to do with casey?
lol >>
Dude, what are YOU talking about?
Someone in a completely different thread had posted that NO golfers were allowed to use carts. I posted that Casey Martin was allowed to use one under the Americans With Disabilities Act.
And do you need a link to prove to you that he is allowed to use a cart?
Linky Dinky for Slowpoke WP
I never even brought up that the players used carts...are you high?
And what does it have to do with Casey Martin? If you are basing your argument now that walking the course is the athletic portion of the game of golf qualifying it as a sport, then what happens when someone doesn't do the walking? Are they any less of an athlete?
<< <i><<but does anyone else care one bit when someone else posts something negative about them?>>
You do, or you would ignore my posts and not go into your raving snit. >>
But spammy your posts are so much fun to pick apart and show just how inconsistent you are with 'your' team the spankees.
Raving snit? Because I use capitals for effect? Because I post replies that are longer than one sentence quips?
I think the raving snit should be something you are familiar with - you know, queen george and how he pops off every time his 200 million dream team loses?
I said I thought you had made that claim
I knew that casey was allowed to use a cart.
I then assumed it was in fact you that made the claim when you didnt rebutt it.
as for my reply.
yes I am aware that casey is disabled, uses a cart. i further attest thatr he is still an athlete and plays a game called golf which is a sport.
now twist that anyway you like.
Sd
Wrong again axtell it was in this thread.
just not your post, hence the reason i said. "I thought you made the statement"
I await your twist on the use of thread and post.
his is a post within a thread yes?
doesn't require great ability to be a good golfer, but how can you consider a sport where you ride in a cart from hole to hole,
Couldn't be said better!
Axtell - evidently in golf you must have hit a hole-in-one on each hole that you ever played, and you decided it was such an easy game that it couldn't be a sport. This is about the only way I can figure that someone who says they have played golf, could not think it was a sport. Tell Michael Jordan and other top athletes who play golf that it is not a sport - they will totally laugh at you.