A potential buyer asks to show a coin to another dealer...

291fifth

...what is your opinion of this potential buyer?

To me, he has tagged himself as a know nothing amateur who can't make his own decisions.

magikbilly

He could be doing anything from finally showing his dealer friend what a puttied peice looks like, or showing your coin to someone who might be interested in buying it


How does this info help you - to think he is a "know nothing" amatuer? What can you do with it? I'd want to cultivate him with friendliness and a good attitude that he might visit my table again. And again. Considering him a "know nothing" is not going to help sales unless one plans to rip him.


Billy

AlaBill

<< <i>To me, he has tagged himself as a know nothing amateur who can't make his own decisions. >>



291...Just how would you propose us know "nothing amateurs" acquire the knowledge to make our own decisions? Do you suggest we take the opinion of every dealer in a show, even though we have no experience with them?

stev32k

To me he tagged himself as a smart man. An amateur that thinks he is an expert is going to over pay, buy junk or both. An amateur that knows he's not an expert and seeks expert advice is a much better collector. I realize dealers don't like that - nobody likes to be seconded guessed, but it's in the collecter's best interest.

magikbilly

<< <i>To me he tagged himself as a smart man. An amateur that thinks he is an expert is going to over pay, buy junk or both. An amateur that knows he's not an expert and seeks expert advice is a much better collector. I realize dealers don't like that - nobody likes to be seconded guessed, but it's in the collecter's best interest. >>



Well said - a different angle than I took - well said!


Billy

Trime

Hey I don't get it. I presume the potential buyer is not a professional (ie dealer)
The potential buyer asked if he could show it to another dealer; the seller has the option of saying no; asking for a payment with a guarentee or saying sure.
Who cares if the potential buyer is an amateur; whats wrong with that?

BTW: I am cosidered an expert in my own field and do not feel to proud to ask opinions of colleagues about issues that deserve careful thought.
Respectively

Windycity

I like to have a second set of eyes on important coins when possible. That is possible at a big show. If a dealer is uncomfortable with that, I don't buy the coin.

PTVETTER

I guess my feeling on this is like this.
After he comes back and buys the coin its a done deal. NO returns for any reason again No return for any reason. This is because he would have to go to his other dealer friend and work it out .
On the other hand I willingly take back coins that customers are unhappy with. We all have experianced buyers remorse at some time in our life and its Good customer relations.

What I don't like is some one taking a coin to an other dealer and that dealer sells him a coin of the same date and mint mark at a lower price just so dealer A looses the sale.

I sometimes ask to show gold to some one else so I don't buy fake ones. there are some good fake gold coins out there!!

ms70

<< <i>To me, he has tagged himself as a know nothing amateur who can't make his own decisions. >>



I'm sure at one time you fit that bill too.

magikbilly

<< <i>After he comes back and buys the coin its a done deal. NO returns for any reason again No return for any reason. This is because he would have to go to his other dealer friend and work it out . >>



I thought a sale at a show like this was decided to be a done deal regardless in a poll here a while back? Well, in any event, to the highlighted text. What do you mean?

Billy

ebaytrader

<< <i>A potential buyer asks to show a coin to another dealer... >>




Commonly referred to as "taking it on the arm".

He's looking for a buyer and will pay you if it sells or return the coin.

If I know you? OK, maybe.

magikbilly

What is implied by saying "no, you can't take this coin to X's table - either buy it or not." ? Why the pressure? Is it not better to have a happy and comfortable customer - less chance of returns, no?

Billy

RYK

Since I am not a professional, I am an amateur, and I will seek expert advice when I am working outside my dealer comfort zone. In fact, my go-to Dahlonega expert (an extremely advanced collector who owns several of the finest knowns) also seeks advice from other experts when making a significant purchase. So long as everyone in the chain of advice and deal is satisfied, what is the harm of getting some help?

LanLord

I have had a very well trusted dealer actually show something (kinda special) to another dealer before selling it.

I guess sometimes a second pair of eyes and another opinion are helpful.

I wouldn't let it change my opinion of the person unless I was looking for a reason to dislike them in the first place.

BAJJERFAN

Commonly referred to as "taking it on the arm".

Better there than in the shorts. If you got nothing to hide why should you care if a potential buyer seeks a second opinion? Afterall you really don't know why he is seeking it. If the guy goes around later shootin off his mouth about how he ripped you or cherrypicked you then you would certainly have reason to be pissed.

CarlWohlforth

It seems that most often buyers like that are either going around comparing your coin and price (with coin in hand) with other dealers ("well I can buy this one for such and such") or they are looking to resell the coin.

If in fact they are amateur collectors trying to learn about a coin they have a good chance of getting a biased opinion. The dealer they show it to could also deal in those coin in which case he may badmouth the coin and show them a "better" one. Or the dealer may not deal in those coins so may not know as much as he would like to imply he knows.

If you know an expert coin dealer who has time to spend with you there are probably more productive ways to bolster your education.

AlaBill

I'm still bothered by the concept that requesting a second opinion from another dealer is tagging oneself as a know nothing amateur. That's just offensive to me.

PerryHall

<< <i>I'm still bothered by the concept that requesting a second opinion from another dealer is tagging oneself as a know nothing amateur. That's just offensive to me. >>



Refusing to ever ask for a second opinion tags oneself as either stupid or an egomaniac who thinks he already knows everything.

magikbilly

291fifth

You've never bent the ear of a fellow dealer - or collector? Heck - you are disparaging people en masse who ask someone what they think while asking us what we think....


If you are dealing, and your goal is to make money (by growing happy comfy little customers who come back - not a drive-by crapshoot affair) is anything to be gained by your attitude as expressed? Some sellers at the venues I frequent dislike it as well (non-coin) - somethimes they find out they missed something themselves


Billy

291fifth

This question was based on a recent incident at a local show (not involving me, but I was able to see the entire thing play out). A collector was showing around some coins he had from another dealer on the floor. He had not yet purchased the coins. The coins were the usual Sunday bourse overgraded, raw, crap that any experienced collector should have rejected out of hand. He didn't buy the coins...he got good advice from the other dealer...but he sure tagged himself as an amateur, and one who had no "eye" for quality at that.

RYK

I'm still bothered by the concept that requesting a second opinion from another dealer is tagging oneself as a know nothing amateur. That's just offensive to me.

I will take the other side of this. It probably depends on context. If there were multiple coins, AND they were all over-graded junk, AND the customer showed them to nearly every dealer on the floor, I would agree that he/she would look rather foolish.

mrearlygold

Wanker.


Bring a big mac into wendy's for an opinion?

KurtHorn

<< <i>This question was based on a recent incident at a local show (not involving me, but I was able to see the entire thing play out). A collector was showing around some coins he had from another dealer on the floor. He had not yet purchased the coins. The coins were the usual Sunday bourse overgraded, raw, crap that any experienced collector should have rejected out of hand. He didn't buy the coins...he got good advice from the other dealer...but he sure tagged himself as an amateur, and one who had no "eye" for quality at that. >>



And so, would you have been happier if the "amateur" got ripped by an unscrupulous Sunday afternoon dealer? Or, now that you've tagged him as an amateur are you all hot to rip him yourself? If he knows enough to know he doesn't know it all, then he's at least 2 steps ahead of the game.

ritepath

UYAH that's what I'd say.

RGT

Perhaps the details of this particular instance made the collector look like an amateur. But we have all been amateurs at some point and needed some help.

About 15 years ago I was at a local show and came across an 1855 half cent the dealer had graded MS61. I was new to half cents and really haddn't collected much MS stuff of any kind at that point. I asked the dealer if I could show the coin to the local dealer that I had done business with in the past and trusted. The seller had no problem with this.

The local dealer asked me where I found it and wondered how he had missed it when he was making his rounds earlier. He collected half cents and may have bought it himself if he had seen it. He said it looked like an MS62 to him and that I should buy it, which I did. I later had him send it to PCGS for me where it was slabbed MS63.

Although I had been collecting for more than 15 years at that point I was out of my area of expertise and wanted some advise from someone more knowledgable that I trusted. I still occasionally bring coins to him for an opinion, though it's usually after I have bought them now. But now I form my own opinion first and nine times out of ten he agrees with me. I guess that makes me an amatuer wanker still.

michael

sounds good to me and a smart move on the potential buyers part---yes yes double yes

if the dealer is fair and honest and has good coins priced fairly he might get a really good long time customer and if not then it is the potential buyers loss

Reece

This has happened to me a number of times, I have a dealer associate who is building me a nice set of New Orleans gold coins and buy from him about 90% of the time but he doesnt have every NO gold coin that is on the market, the last Long Beach show I was at the booth of a national gold wholesaler and he said Reece I have a real nice MS63 18XX-0 $2 1/2 and quoted me a price, I asked if I could take it to my dearler associate, (all the dealers know each other) and he said sure, I walked it over to my dealer and he looked at the coin and said you would be foolish if you didnt buy the coin!! I walked back to the other dealer and told him what my dealer said and he looked a little shocked and said great!! I have done this many times, all with the same outcome, and I dont consider myself an amature, just somebody that wants to be completely sure when I am buying 5 figure coins!!

tcmitssr

<< <i>...what is your opinion of this potential buyer?

To me, he has tagged himself as a know nothing amateur who can't make his own decisions. >>



Let me give you my perspective on this. Let's pretend I am at your table and I am the customer you mentioned.

I can make my own decisions. I am already at your table and have selected a coin or two to consider for my collection. Your coin looks good and your price is strong. However, I have not done business with you in the past and if we are talking significant bucks, I want to be sure.

I will look you in the eye and say "I would like to take this coin to "X" (which for me, would probably be Warren Mills) to get his impression and will promptly return. I am happy to leave you my driver's license for your reassurance. Is this ok with you"? At this point, I assume you know how respected Warren is and I am sizing you up as you make your decision.

Now, if you say "no", I'm probably not going to buy. If you say "ok", Warren's not making the final decision, I am. However, my estimation of you as an individual has, substantially, grown. At that point, I may (or may not) go off to show Warren. We might just make a deal at that time. If I do show him, you will have a lock sale if he approves.

For high four and five figure coins, a quality dealer should not have a problem with any buyer wanting a second opinion, particularly from one of the best numismatists in the world, known for his integrity.

streeter

To me, he has tagged himself as a know nothing amateur who can't make his own decisions

Oh I suppose if you are lost and stop at the gas station to ask directions then you are not a MAN.....(sarcasm added)

This question would be very important in a context of dealer to dealer or dealer to collector.

I have asked maybe two people this question--just to see their reaction--I had made the decision possibly TO BUY SOMETHING from them and wanted to see their reaction to the question before I committed MY RETAIL MONEY. Having made lots of bad calls on coins--I suppose that I wanted a little more insight into the seller.

If you have millions in inventory--great--but if you are working your way up the ladder--you have to ask questions.

morgannut2

A real collector, verses a vest-pocket wannabe, should get nothing but respect for knowing his own limitations. Since when is objectivity, humility and the desire to learn a bad thing? If the dealer refused, I'd know he was a jerk and never deal with him---

Russ

<< <i>I suppose if you are lost and stop at the gas station to ask directions then you are not a MAN >>



That's actually true.

Russ, NCNE

LeeG

A fool and his money is soon parted. Last year I was a big fool and my money parted my hands for junk in return. No more! I will only buy from dealers who don't mind me asking questions and possibly getting recommendations of others. Thats just good business in my mind.

BillJones

Getting a second opinion for an experieced collector whom you know can be a good thing. If the collector has no interest in buying the coin for himself, you will probably get an honest opinion.

Going to another dealer to get an opinion on an other dealer's offering is pretty much a waste of time IMO. Most dealers will say that that coin is question is not a good buy because they want to get your money instead of the dealer who is offering the piece.

If you do decide to ask another dealer about an opinion about a piece, NEVER NEVER go to a dealer who is within earshot or perhaps even eyeshot of the dealer who is offering the coin. In that case you asking that dealer to give an opinon in front of the owner which is a VERY BAD move. In those cases I just have have to pass because I'm not going to get into arguments when there is no benefit to me.

When I'm asked to give an opinon, I'll give you an honest honest one, if it's not in front of the owner, especially if you have been a customer. BUT if you never buy a coin from me, and REPEATEDLY only want to pick my brain, I'll get tired of that. Nobody likes to be used.

lathmach

Well, 291filth, you can tag me anything you want. Doesn't bother me any.
I've asked dealers I knew to look at something for me and offer an opinion, because I knew them and trusted their judgement.
In addition to my asking dealers to look at coins, I've been called aside many times by dealers who know me, to look at something for them and render an opinion on the series of coins I've made a study of for several years.

Ray

BillJones

<< <i>A fool and his money is soon parted. Last year I was a big fool and my money parted my hands for junk in return. No more! I will only buy from dealers who don't mind me asking questions and possibly getting recommendations of others. Thats just good business in my mind. >>



Yes and you also need to bear in mind that there are people at shows who get coins from dealers for "opinions" who shop them around to sell to other dealers. The trouble with that is if the item does not sell, you can get your coin back, and you have lost your chance to sell the coin at a show. I've had that done to me a couple of times by a certain individual, and we have mutually agreed that he is not longer welcome at my table.

After a while you have to stand on your own two feet and make decisions on your own. The best of all worlds is to establish a relationship with a dealer who willl spend time with you to teach you the ropes. To do that it needs to be a give and take situation.

If you get the reputation as a "nervious Nellie" who can't make a decision on your own, you won't do well when it comes to deals in this business in the long run.

lathmach

I don't disagree with what BillJones says.
As others have noted, it all depends on what the person's motive is for showing a coin to another dealer.

Ray

MrSpud

Ummm... One time I contemplated buying a New Jersey colonial coin that a dealer had on his table at a coin show. I wanted to buy it for MrsSpud because she is from New Jersey. I had never bought a colonial coin before and had no idea if it was worth what the dealer was asking for it. The president of our coin club just happened to be looking at another dealers coins at a table nearby. I asked the dealer if I could show the coin to the coin club president. He said OK so I showed it to him. He told me that it was misattributed and actually was worth much less than what the dealer was asking for it (it had been listed as a serpent head but actually was a camel head or something like that). So I didn't buy the coin. I'm glad I asked. By the way, I ended up buying a different New Jersey from another dealer that I found at the next coin show for less than it was worth .

FatMan

I am an amatuer. I seek opinions all the time. If a dealer chooses to not allow me the opportunity, I say thank you and move on.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>...what is your opinion of this potential buyer?

To me, he has tagged himself as a know nothing amateur who can't make his own decisions. >>



I think you're way off base.

Myqqy

I see nothing wrong with a collector wanting/needing a second opinion on a coin, especially if you're talking about something expensive. Wanting a second opinion doesn't mean that he is a "know nothing amatuer"......

Elcontador

I will never buy a coin without having a second set of eyes look at it. Often, that second set of eyes is with me so we can look at the coin together, sometimes not. If a dealer won't let me take the coin to another dealer for a second opinion (and I agree with Bill Jones re the details), then the first dealer will have to either sell the coin to someone else, or not sell it at all.

If the person providing the second opinion likes the coin, then I take it back to the dealer and pay him for it. Of course, in that case, it's a done deal.

relayer

Now he has three opinions instead of just two

stman

Sometimes asking another dealer their opinion might not be beneficial to the collector if this dealer is the type
to "Poo Poo" others coins. There are plenty of them out there so make sure it's someone that will give an honest
unbiased opinion. Some dealers will want some kind of collateral if you take the coin away from their table. Be prepared for
that and I honestly don't blame them if you're a stranger to them.

I've asked for an opinion in the past but learning my coins of interest I feel comfortable making decisions.
I also missed a couple very nice coins in the past by asking for a second opinion and the person did the big "Poo Poo"
no matter what they seen. This is how we learn.

ldhair

<< <i>...what is your opinion of this potential buyer?

To me, he has tagged himself as a know nothing amateur who can't make his own decisions. >>


I agree, he has tagged himself as such.
At the same time he probably did the best thing for himself.
He may know he needs help with decisions.

airplanenut

At the last show I went to, there was a reasonably priced MS66 1913 T1 Buffalo with some electric green toning. I decided to show the coin to a dealer, and he pointed out that while the coin did have nice color, I was missing the big picture--the untoned part (90% of the coin) was quite drab for a 66. I learned something, and saved a good deal of money. That sparked a conversation, which made me reevaluate how I was buying coins. From that day on, I've been a pickier buyer.

Jeremy

Elcontador

One more thing on this. MANY years ago, I paid at the time very strong money for a 31 D dime that was "all there." At least, so I thought. I knew how to grade Mercs fairly well.

Thirty years later, when I went to sell it, a potential buyer noticed a scratch on Miss Liberty's cheek that I had missed. I never did get my $ out of the coin because of that scratch. My point is, I guarantee you that if you do not have a helpful second set of eyes looking at your coin purchases, it is just a matter of time before you "buy an expensive coin wrong" and have to eat it.