Grade the 1797 half dime (13 stars) *Anacs grade revealed*

Baley

What do you think this half dime grades 1) Detail-wise and 2) Net?



PS: thanks to those who voted for the ANACS coin in this thread you gave me confidence to pay good money for a coin with a hole in it

rays

VF30 details, holed, net Good6.

ziggy29

VF-20 details, net G-4?

tjkillian

VF-30 Details, net VG-10. Still a very nice looking coin. The hole does not bother me very much.

Tom

stman

KurtHorn

I thought ANACS wouldn't holder a holed coin unless it was repaired? Hmm,... anyway. it's F/VF details holed scratched net Good 6... my guess.

BillJones

VF-25 detail, net Good-5 because of the hole.

This one would be a great candidate for a repair. The only problem is that the hole on the obverse side is pretty nasty given that it has pushed the metal up and destroyed the "B" completely.

In general, what a shame.

rhedden

VF-20 detail, net arrrrrrgggghhh. The only excuse for that hole is if it was done in the early 1800's by someone wanting to wear it around their neck.

tmot99

Awesome coin with or without the hole. I would guess VF with a NET of G

morgannut2

VF 25, net Anacs G-6?

dthigpen

I love that coin... Please don't ruin it by trying to repair it.

coinfreak499

F details net AG3

dthigpen

<< <i>I thought ANACS wouldn't holder a holed coin unless it was repaired? Hmm,... anyway. it's F/VF details holed scratched net Good 6... my guess. >>



No, they definately will, I have about 200 ANACS slabs with holed coins in them to prove it

dthigpen

<< <i>In general, what a shame. >>



It's a contemporary hole made by a crude nail (as square/rectangular and crude as they were at the time) with a hard wood backing. Excellent history to the piece, it is certainly not a shame by any accord. Either strung to a pocket string for safe keeping, strung on a bracelet around the wrist, or possibly (Would need closer pictures to determine) was afixed to a beam of wood on a house or barn for a period of time. Good stuff.

Baley

I love the detail on this coin and can't stop staring at it... in hand the surfaces look 100% original

This is a tiny coin.. the actual penetration hole is so small, you can barely see light through it...
just big enough for a thread or very fine wire.

The hole is certainly the reason the coin survived with so little wear...

The coin was obviously a keepsake and I wonder who kept it through the early 1800's..

BillJones

No, not "good stuff" at all.

The hole took several thousand dollars off the value of an R-6 variety (13-30 est. population). I'd say that might be a little more common than that with no more than 50 pieces known, but this coin would have been a much cherished item in most any collection of early half dimes.

I wish that my coin had the color that Baley's has, and I'm sure that he wishes that his did not have the hole.

Baley

Yes, of course I wish my coin didn't have the hole..
but then again, if it didn't, I wouldn't be able to afford it and it wouldn't be my coin anyway.

a few more thoughts..

very little if any metal was removed from the coin during the puncture... as opposed to drilling, when little bits of silver are lost.

the hole is not big enough for a nail to go through.. also, kind of a small coin for the barn-nailing type.. I'm thinking the coin was probably sewn to something.. doesn't have that "jewelry" look to it

I think the details are in the VF20-25 range.. What do you grade your coin, Bill?

Yes I love the color, particularly on the reverse

dthigpen

<< <i>Yes, of course I wish my coin didn't have the hole..
but then again, if it didn't, I wouldn't be able to afford it and it wouldn't be my coin anyway.

a few more thoughts..

very little if any metal was removed from the coin during the puncture... as opposed to drilling, when little bits of silver are lost.

the hole is not bit enough for a nail to go through.. also, kind of a small coin for the barn-nailing type.. I'm thinking the coin was probably sewn to something.. doesn't have that "jewelry" look to it

I think the details are in the VF20-25 range.. >>



I was thinking a very small tacking nail of the time, by the shape.

mgoodm3

Vf something. I don't know net grading well enough to attempt.

Hoot

Great coin. Is it worth having repaired and can the repairs be done without wrecking the toning? Seems like a coin worth finding a true expert to work on.

Hoot

Nysoto

I like the coin as it is, grade is not important. I have never seen details re-engraved that look good, and plugging the coin would destroy at least part of the old toning.

stman

Agree with Nysoto. Grade is not important. What IS important is you own a very rare piece of history regardless of condition.
Congratulations!!!! Also, I don't agree with "Fixing" a coin. It is what it is.

BTW, nice way to get opinions earlier mentioning it would be a half dollar in your poll. You a smart cookie.

crispy

<< <i>Yes, of course I wish my coin didn't have the hole..
but then again, if it didn't, I wouldn't be able to afford it and it wouldn't be my coin anyway. >>



I think this is what's important here, no? You have a rare and beautiful coin that you couldn't normally possess. Sometimes concessions need to be made to get what we desire. Very nice coin with great detail and color. Congrats.

dthigpen

Buying a coin with a contemporary hole in it isn't making a concession, it's a major positive selling point of the coin..

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>I thought ANACS wouldn't holder a holed coin unless it was repaired? Hmm,... anyway. it's F/VF details holed scratched net Good 6... my guess. >>



No, they definately will, I have about 200 ANACS slabs with holed coins in them to prove it >>



The only coins they won't holder are counterfeits and coins with active PVC contamination since they will continue to deteriorate even in the slab.

crispy

<< <i>Buying a coin with a contemporary hole in it isn't making a concession, it's a major positive selling point of the coin.. >>



Oops. Didn't mean to step on any toes.

dthigpen

<< <i>

<< <i>Buying a coin with a contemporary hole in it isn't making a concession, it's a major positive selling point of the coin.. >>



Oops. Didn't mean to step on any toes. >>



That's cool, Some people just haven't seen the holey light yet...

PerryHall

If it were properly repaired it wouldn't need to be net graded.

Baley

The coin somehow survived 200+ years without being cleaned, and has been in the hands of collectors for probably 100+ years, and still, everyone resisted the temptation to try to "do something" about the hole.... thank goodness some hack at some point in the past didn't crudely patch the hole with solder or the like..

I'm not going to "do anything" to this piece except look at it...

ms70

Now that I've stopped crying over the damage to the coin......

I'd say VF30. I'm not really sure how to apply net grades.

ziggy29

<< <i>I'm not going to "do anything" to this piece except look at it... >>

Probably wise. You can always choose to repair/plug it later if you change your mind...but if you plug it now, you can't put the genie back in the bottle and "unrepair" it if you decide it was a mistake.

morgannut2

Although I wanted the Fair NGC coin, it certainly is a very fine coin you have purchased. The idea that this is a near contemporary hole is consistent with it being struck with a hand wrought square nail as Thig suggested. With that rarity, I could live with the hole, and lack of a hole, in my bank account due to it!!

Baley

Grade revealed: Anacs Fine details, holed, net Fair-2.

(this has got to be the prettiest Fair-2 in the world!)

BillJones

<< <i>I think the details are in the VF20-25 range.. What do you grade your coin, Bill? >>



I graded my coin VF-25/30, Baley. NGC graded it VF-35.

I think my coin was cleaned many years ago with baking soda. You can see the thumb print on the obverse. Frankly I didn't care because this coin came up on a Boston bid wall, I already knew that it was rare one, and this would be one of the few times that I would have chance to own a 1797 13 star half dime. At the time I was thinking smaller and was thinking it would be cool to get the 13, 15 and 16 star coins. I did that, and then kept on with a Red Book variety set of these coins. It's registered on the NGC site.

Baley

this would be one of the few times that I would have chance to own a 1797 13 star half dime

Exactly. I hesitated maybe a minute between being offered this one and saying, "yes please"

If/when I get a shot at a better one, and put this up for sale, I guess I'll find out more about "net" grades.

I'd rather have one like this than a problem-free AG or even a typical good-4, but would probably trade this holed coin for a nice VG-8.

Therefore I net grade this piece G-6, that's my opinion and I'm stickin to it..

Bill's coin appears to me to have EF details, I agree with NGC's net grade of VF35 for that one, for the very light cleaning

dthigpen

Well, just in case you're ever looking to get rid of it, please keep me in mind, I'll definately make a competitive offer

Baley

I would guess that the hole was carefully made with a very sharp knife point.
Probably over 200 years ago.

MorganMan94

@Baley said:
I would guess that the hole was carefully made with a very sharp knife point.
Probably over 200 years ago.

This thread is 12 years old!?
I am curious where this coin is now and the holder it is in.. Maybe Baley still owns it? He seems to be active here.

Edit: Whoops, I didn't see that you were the one who bumped it as well. Any particular reason?

Baley

The "net" grade topic was apropos of a related thread.

lordmarcovan

I remember that one!

HoledandCreative

Hope you find one you like to replace it soon.

ricko

So you never had it slabbed?? Sure, it would be genuine/damaged... but it is a nice coin other than that.. Cheers, RickO

Baley

No, it was certified by ANACS, then I broke it out of the holder and poked it into the appropriate space in my Whitman volume 1 type set album, thereby completing the half dime section.

Colonialcoin

That’s a very pretty coin, even with the hole! I would prefer your coin any day over one that is scratched up or cleaned.

BillJones

Thanks to dear old Photobucket, the photos I posted years ago are lost. Here are the photos of the 1797, 13 star half dime in my collection. My "old time grade" was VF-25/30. The NGC grade is VF-35

leothelyon

Grade? Very gratifying! And that's all that matters.

Leo

asheland

Great thread!

KollectorKing

@asheland said:
Great thread!

& coins

Colonialcoin

@BillJones said:
Thanks to dear old Photobucket, the photos I posted years ago are lost. Here are the photos of the 1797, 13 star half dime in my collection. My "old time grade" was VF-25/30. The NGC grade is VF-35

Fabulous coin!!!