I don't think the seller is unethical or a scammer... I just think he's cheesey and irresponsible. I probably wouldn't buy from him... but It doesn't appear that he's breaking any rules...
I hate that when I think I am getting a great deal and it just turns out to be sort of fair... LOL
He could have at least used two or three ID's...
I wouldn't like it either if a seller pumped a card up and made me "THINK" it was nm and it was previously a psa 5... but... had you caught that first, you likely wouldn't have bid... You just have to be careful man... lots o cheese balls out there.
Right now... I am buying raw again also... and it's quite difficult to find those raw "gems." It happens... but more often not...
I am particularly peeved about this "high book value" crap... you know... where someone has a VG-EX 1972 Dr. J Rookie and they put HIGH BOOK VALUE $350.00!!! I just want to email everyone of them and tell them I think they are turds... but... not enough time in the day...
or they are selling a psa 8 common from a 70's set and claim that it's ridiculously rare...
or they charge $4.00 for first class shipping and $2.00 for insurance... on a raw card that will sell under $10.00. MAN that PIS*ES me off ~
But... the lesson might be... just don't bid... don't buy from someone that gives you the willies... I can find something I want on eBay at a rate of 1 item per minute...
true story here... I bought this out of print 1980's cd from a 1980's goth group named "Laibach" for $4 in the bargain bin at a used cd store in New Haven... I ebayed it a couple days later. It was up to $123.00!!! and I felt so satisfied that I ended the auction early and wrote the seller a similar message to the one you got... like... dear bidder... expectations have long since been surpassed etc... I gave him cold feet... he perceived me as a scammer... and I lost the deal. ended up selling it to the second high bidder for $75.00.
<< <i>With the way this threads going, Mike get out that set of steak-knives, we may hit 100 tonight! >>
Brian I have been watching the Spurs go down in flames and just got to reading this thread - seems to be heating up! The way this is going, the last thing I would want to give anyone right now is a sharp instrument!
In case anyone cares to know, the seller wrote me back - I DON'T HAVE TO PAY HIM! He also said he won't be giving me negative feedback. So, now what? Is he guilty of being a scandalous, dirty, scammer who preys on the newbie card collector? I took his bait - hook, line, and sinker. He basically caught me and threw me back in.
I suspect that he is also using multiple accounts, or has an eBay bidding buddy or two. Why? I was bidding on a '59 Willie Mays from the same scammer, er seller, and would you believe that same crazy bidding buyer outbid me on it also ran up the bids on the '64 Mantle? See, I knew there was something fishy about this seller, but I just didn't see it. It's just been difficult for me as a newbie collector, because I get fired up about what appears to be a nice looking card, and I think it might be a 7 or better (that's my problem) in reality these cards are few and far between. Another point, the seller already had my trust, because I had already purchased from him before (unfortunately after I placed a max bid, and thinking that there wouldn't be anyone stupid enough to outbid me - definitely a destructive and WRONG way of thinking). I was in no way thinking I was getting over on the seller, by placing my bid, I was just trying to prevent being outbid (biggest eBay no-no). I should have posted in the forums first, but I didn't want to be riddiculed again over the Aaron fiasco. It's a terrible thing to be thought of a sucker, and even more horribly discouraging to realize it is true. I guess if I didn't find anything wrong with the seller, then this all wouldn't matter and everyone would still have their opinions. It's interesting how this type of thing brings out the true personalities of people in their replies to things they strongly agree or disagree with.
After all this, I will be treading more lightly on Ebay especially with vintage raw. I'll just assume that everything is going to be a 6 or lower and bid accordingly. I will definitely be asking for your opinions on items that seem to be sugar coated or questionable. I'm still sure there are those in these forums who still say there's nothing wrong with this seller and it it's my fault for placing the bid - you're probably right, or maybe you're not. But, it sure seems strange he told me I didn't have to pay for the card and won't be giving me a negative feedback doesn't it?
So after all this the seller can continue to con the newbie, unsuspecting, card collector? Everyone else who doesn't fall for this scam, will ignore these auctions and laugh at the suckers who bid - THIS doesn't seem right! I feel I should post negative on his already tarnished feedback to warn people... maybe I should just let this thread die.
<< <i> So after all this the seller can continue to con the newbie, unsuspecting, card collector? Everyone else who doesn't fall for this scam, will ignore these auctions and laugh at the suckers who bid - THIS doesn't seem right! I feel I should post negative on his already tarnished feedback to warn people... maybe I should just let this thread die. >>
Post a negative after he let you off the hook for a bid that *you* made?
Post a negative after *you* were the only one who did something wrong and unethical?
Come on now...(and quoting John McEnroe) 'you cannot be serious!'
I was bidding on a '59 Willie Mays from the same scammer, er seller, and would you believe that same crazy bidding buyer outbid me on it also ran up the bids on the '64
<< <i>In case anyone cares to know, the seller wrote me back - I DON'T HAVE TO PAY HIM! He also said he won't be giving me negative feedback. So, now what? Is he guilty of being a scandalous, dirty, scammer who preys on the newbie card collector? I took his bait - hook, line, and sinker. He basically caught me and threw me back in.
I suspect that he is also using multiple accounts, or has an eBay bidding buddy or two. Why? I was bidding on a '59 Willie Mays from the same scammer, er seller, and would you believe that same crazy bidding buyer outbid me on it also ran up the bids on the '64 Mantle? See, I knew there was something fishy about this seller, but I just didn't see it. It's just been difficult for me as a newbie collector, because I get fired up about what appears to be a nice looking card, and I think it might be a 7 or better (that's my problem) in reality these cards are few and far between. Another point, the seller already had my trust, because I had already purchased from him before (unfortunately after I placed a max bid, and thinking that there wouldn't be anyone stupid enough to outbid me - definitely a destructive and WRONG way of thinking). I was in no way thinking I was getting over on the seller, by placing my bid, I was just trying to prevent being outbid (biggest eBay no-no). I should have posted in the forums first, but I didn't want to be riddiculed again over the Aaron fiasco. It's a terrible thing to be thought of a sucker, and even more horribly discouraging to realize it is true. I guess if I didn't find anything wrong with the seller, then this all wouldn't matter and everyone would still have their opinions. It's interesting how this type of thing brings out the true personalities of people in their replies to things they strongly agree or disagree with.
After all this, I will be treading more lightly on Ebay especially with vintage raw. I'll just assume that everything is going to be a 6 or lower and bid accordingly. I will definitely be asking for your opinions on items that seem to be sugar coated or questionable. I'm still sure there are those in these forums who still say there's nothing wrong with this seller and it it's my fault for placing the bid - you're probably right, or maybe you're not. But, it sure seems strange he told me I didn't have to pay for the card and won't be giving me a negative feedback doesn't it?
So after all this the seller can continue to con the newbie, unsuspecting, card collector? Everyone else who doesn't fall for this scam, will ignore these auctions and laugh at the suckers who bid - THIS doesn't seem right! I feel I should post negative on his already tarnished feedback to warn people... maybe I should just let this thread die. >>
After a traumatic experience like this, it sounds like you need a hug. Just make sure the next time you venture onto the information superhighway, you have an adult by your side.
Whether or not one thinks that this seller is a scammer is of your own opinion and can be argued until the end of time. The buyer here is the one responsible for making his own choices of what to purchase or not. If you do not do a little research into something first then you have no one to blame but yourself. I think buyer, especially new ones, have a tendancy to get a little gung-ho on bidding or buying something they want and get burnt. A little investigating into the sellers recent purchases would have let the buyer know that this card was previously graded. This has always been a "buyer beware" market, lesson learned.
Boo, why is it everytime I read your posts your ragging on someone?
<< <i>More recently, this auction (i'm taking the non-paying bidder neg for this one). I was even bidding on this PSA 5 card too but he outbid me. Then he, cracked the case and would have doubled his money! >>
He bid all of $55 and the seller won the PSA 5 card for $224. Than a week later he bids $450 for the same card raw that he only thought was worth $55 in a PSA holder? He already had previous dealings with the seller and now he wants to neg. him after he lets him off the hook?
This guy is/was out of control including bidding on a raw 64 Rose at the price of what a graded 7 sells for. Check out feedback on this lot of unopened packs he bought for $10 and were advertised as 10 to 20 years old.
<< <i> Not worth what I paid best card was Leaf Bagwell Gold card, most 89-91. YMMV. >>
Did he stop buying grab bag lots after this? Nooooooooooooooooooooooo. Check out the feedback he leaves for others, he sure does like giving out neutrals.
<< <i>Asked for only Baseball, got FB and BsktBall. Promised BB as I paid 25 lots! . >>
<< <i>20 lots, all regular cards, no GU, no RC, no Auto. Will not repeat buy. >>
And these are just the ones he did not receive what he thought was a card/cards worth more than he paid for. I think the buyer had very little direction in what he wanted and wants to blame everone but his own greed because the seller broke out a card and sold it raw. What did he think the seller was doing replacing this great raw card with a PSA 5 he just bought off ebay because he does not like to send cards in himself? How would that explain the other Mantle the seller bought off the same seller?
I do not like what the seller is doing(but he was not hiding it or the shady bidding very well) but bid less for raw than for graded and make sure if you spend good money get a return policy/cert. level promise before you bid. I would think a Ebayer for over 6 years would be a little more savvy than this.
<< <i>In case anyone cares to know, the seller wrote me back - I DON'T HAVE TO PAY HIM! He also said he won't be giving me negative feedback. So, now what? Is he guilty of being a scandalous, dirty, scammer who preys on the newbie card collector? I took his bait - hook, line, and sinker. He basically caught me and threw me back in.
I suspect that he is also using multiple accounts, or has an eBay bidding buddy or two. Why? I was bidding on a '59 Willie Mays from the same scammer, er seller, and would you believe that same crazy bidding buyer outbid me on it also ran up the bids on the '64 Mantle? See, I knew there was something fishy about this seller, but I just didn't see it. It's just been difficult for me as a newbie collector, because I get fired up about what appears to be a nice looking card, and I think it might be a 7 or better (that's my problem) in reality these cards are few and far between. Another point, the seller already had my trust, because I had already purchased from him before (unfortunately after I placed a max bid, and thinking that there wouldn't be anyone stupid enough to outbid me - definitely a destructive and WRONG way of thinking). I was in no way thinking I was getting over on the seller, by placing my bid, I was just trying to prevent being outbid (biggest eBay no-no). I should have posted in the forums first, but I didn't want to be riddiculed again over the Aaron fiasco. It's a terrible thing to be thought of a sucker, and even more horribly discouraging to realize it is true. I guess if I didn't find anything wrong with the seller, then this all wouldn't matter and everyone would still have their opinions. It's interesting how this type of thing brings out the true personalities of people in their replies to things they strongly agree or disagree with.
After all this, I will be treading more lightly on Ebay especially with vintage raw. I'll just assume that everything is going to be a 6 or lower and bid accordingly. I will definitely be asking for your opinions on items that seem to be sugar coated or questionable. I'm still sure there are those in these forums who still say there's nothing wrong with this seller and it it's my fault for placing the bid - you're probably right, or maybe you're not. But, it sure seems strange he told me I didn't have to pay for the card and won't be giving me a negative feedback doesn't it?
So after all this the seller can continue to con the newbie, unsuspecting, card collector? Everyone else who doesn't fall for this scam, will ignore these auctions and laugh at the suckers who bid - THIS doesn't seem right! I feel I should post negative on his already tarnished feedback to warn people... maybe I should just let this thread die. >>
Oh my God.. you need help, kid.. but i'm blocking your user ID from ever bidding on my auctions..
The buyer already left him nuetrals, and he wants to leave him a neg now? You bought a card hoping to get 7s and you didn't. That is your own d@#m fault! Never ASSume that you can ever judge a raw cards potential PSA grade.
To continue on the crack and sell raw. Here's a really nice card that would do better raw with the right description. Does anyone think that if this were done...should it be mentioned that the card was graded 6? That could cut both ways - some would bid accordingly and others may think that the card was undergraded!
The card is graded correctly - the upper left corner is soft and missing a very tiny amount of white facing.
But, I promise that if I said it looks NM with a very slight touch on the upper left corner, it would still do very well IMO.
Wow, I never knew that I was going to turn into a sellers worst nightmare! Yes, I agree, I think you sellers should block me from bidding on your auctions. I have been diagnosed with OCD. But, I'm still glad that I let the cat out of the bag, eventhough I am wrong for overbidding and not doing enough research on the sellers. I guess I should realize that there aren't many honest sellers in this hobby (that this this a cut-throat hobby for sellers) who don't care about what they are selling. I also guess there are more sellers on this forum than there are collectors. I never thought that this was going to be such a sensitive spot for you sellers. Hey, I can't help that I have OCD, and that I also believe in giving honest feedback and what is deserved. If you look at the sellers feedback, I didn't give him a negative (eventhough we both deserved it). Also, Stingray you are wrong about me leaving him neutrals. I have left neutrals to other sellers who deserve it, so what's the big deal? Most of my transactions are excellent, and when I feel that the seller was wrong (misrepresenting what he's selling) why should I sit back and hide for fear of negative retalation? I think it's funny that people leave negative comments in positive feedback. I think sellers are more concerned about their feedback because they probably have more to loose (good paying customers), and if you're dishonest it eventually will come back to haunt you. I think that sellers need to to be honest in their sales, and yes I need to be more careful before bidding.
What makes you think that this forum has more sellers then collectors?
I disagree as i know almost all that have replied to you. many sell, yes but only duplicates and some stuff sio they can further their COLLECTING goals.
<< <i>To continue on the crack and sell raw. Here's a really nice card that would do better raw with the right description. Does anyone think that if this were done...should it be mentioned that the card was graded 6? That could cut both ways - some would bid accordingly and others may think that the card was undergraded!
The card is graded correctly - the upper left corner is soft and missing a very tiny amount of white facing.
But, I promise that if I said it looks NM with a very slight touch on the upper left corner, it would still do very well IMO.
mike >>
I agree, with a hyped up description just about any PSA 5 or 6 can be sold for big $$ The problem in this case is that the seller described a known PSA 5 card with the following misinformation: "A superior card" (lie) "4 SHARP corners" (lie) "HIgh PSA value of $2200" (irrelevant and misleading)
NONE of which accurately describe the card, and all of which are either deceiving or outright lies. Not to mention conveniently forgetting to mention the 1 IMPORTANT factor of a CREASE, which no doubt would have affected the price, and the seller knew that.
In your case of the 64 Mantle, it is indeed a decent card....for a PSA 6. I don't think it has to be mentioned that it was a 6 at one time, but there are reasons that PSA graded it a 6 and whatever those are (soft corners, rough edges, off-center, print mark, or whatever, those should definitely be mentioned in my opinion. Yes, the buyer should decide what he is willing to pay for a card, but it's up to the seller to supply enough information for the buyer to make a decision. Withholding key information (like a crease), or pumping up a cards description because you know that nobody can see everything in the scan (especially if it's been "adjusted") is just wrong.
This ends my portion of this thread, with the hope that this dead horse stays dead.
Football collector 1948-1995, Rams oddball cards & memorabilia, Diamond match. Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variationsUpdated 2/13/05
<< <i>What makes you think that this forum has more sellers then collectors?
I disagree as i know almost all that have replied to you. many sell, yes but only duplicates and some stuff sio they can further their COLLECTING goals.
steve >>
I recant, I do not really know if there are more sellers here. It just seems that more people were in agreement with the seller and the seller did nothing wrong. I do acknowledge that I have made mistakes, and shamefully repeated the mistakes.
1bbnerd my mistake, I thought I had read something that there were nuetrals given by you somewhere on this thread, I went to Vintage Collectors ratings and saw that someone had given him three nuetrals. My mistake! I hope that we can all take something from this discussion for the good and not let our emotions get to us. Mine did and I said things I probably did not intend to say in that manner.
Stingray, I did give a different seller neutral, for touting a dutch lot .auction of Barry Bonds cards with hyped details (RC, GU, Graded). I knew I was basically taking a chance... dutch lots are usually not worth it.
There's nothing raw or unethical about it. Don't like his practices, don't bid on his cards. >>
I can't understand why you feel strongly that there is nothing wrong with doing this? The act of buying the card and cracking it doesn't have anything to do with it being wrong. What's wrong is the way he's reselling them. This is not being a smart business man, rather he is a deceiver. Sure, I can see if he honestly represents the card, but he doesn't. It's all too misleading. You're darn right i'm never bidding on his cards again, even if they were in PSA holders.
<< <i>rather he is a deceiver. Sure, I can see if he honestly represents the card, but he doesn't. It's all too misleading. You're darn right i'm never bidding on his cards again, even if they were in PSA holders. >>
He says it's authentic (it is).
He includes scans of front and back (big ones too).
What is any card worth? I think I remember the answer to be 'how much someone is willing to pay for it'. No matter how much you spend and what manner you obtained the card, its worth every penny if you are happy with your purchase. But to think that you can find a raw Mantle in that kind of condition on ebay is almost rediculous unless you are buying from a very respected seller. There is a reason the card isnt graded (or no longer in its slab!). Just be a smart buyer no matter how a seller advertises his product. His goal IS to sell at the highest bid...he/she is not selling charity. I see both sides of this arguement to have very valid points. But the most valid point is the buyer has the greater amount of responsibility when it comes to spending his/her dollar.
I'm sorry, this is starting to look like some card-collecting version of "The Honeymooners."
Ralph, a newbie buyer on eBay, keeps wasting $$ trying to get more for less, but ends up getting less for more because he keeps buying cards from some slick operator who has beat him to it.
Ralph comes home to Ed Norton and Alice and talks about how he can't catch a break in the market. Norton says "Ralphie boy, why don't you just buy a nice PSA card to begin with, if that's what you want in the end?" Alice just rolls her eyes, having been through this with Ralph many times before. If there's a hard way to do things, Ralph has to try that way first.
Ralph thinks nobody understands that he doesn't want to be just another shmuck paying retail for cards, he wants to be a big wheel in the hobby, he wants to be the slick operator who's on the winning end of lopsided transactions. So he sits down at his computer and runs his latest idea for a description keyword search on eBay: "(Mantle, Ruth, Cobb) (PRO, GEM, AAA, ungraded, raw) (genuine, real, authentic, grandma, grandpa, cigar box, attic, estate sale)"
I do see where the guy may be hyping a bit but....ya gotta give the guy credit...he's surfing ebay for "apparently" undergraded PSA cards - that card looks pretty nice as a 5 and may be worthy of selling as a weak 7 or hi end exmt.
Here's a nice 33G that could be cracked and resold as nmt - I got this raw from Superior 15 yrs ago - didn't pay a lot but Greg B. said the card was nm-mt?
Stingray, I did give a different seller neutral, for touting a dutch lot .auction of Barry Bonds cards with hyped details (RC, GU, Graded). I knew I was basically taking a chance... dutch lots are usually not worth it. >>
Dutch auctions are usually not worth it? But you placed a bid anyway?
Congratulations on being the biggest mark on the PSA forums.
It's quite obvious you're a glutton for punishment in real life AND on these message boards. Why don't you just quit while you're behind?
hEY 1BBNERD WHY IS IT UNETHICAL FOR HIM TO DO WHAT HES DOING BUT ITS NOT UNETHICAL FOR YOU TO TRY AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF SOMEONES IGNORANCE TO THE VALUE OF QUALITY GRADED CARDS? hE MAY NOT BE UP FOR CARD DEALER OF THE YEAR BUT HIS PRACTICE IS NOT UNETHICAL. FIRST ALL THE PSA GRADE IS IS AN OPINION SO HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DO WHAT HE IS DOING. AFTER ALL ITS NOT LIKE HE IS BUYING PRO OR GEM AND DOING THIS THESE PEOPLE ARE AT LEAST GETTING REAL UNALTERED CARDS. IN FACT I DONT SEE HIM EVER CLAIM THAT ANY OF THESE CARDS WOULD ACHIEVE A CERTAIN GRADE FROM PSA, NOW THAT WOULD BE UNETHICAL. PLEASE TAKE HEED OF THIS ADVICE MOST OF THE TIME YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. THIS REMINDS ME OF A STORY. AT THE ATLANTA NATIONAL, ON THE LAST DAY OF THE SHOW, A GUY COMES UP TO US WITH A RAW 1951 BOWMAN MANTLE TELLING US HE JUST BOUGHT IT FROM A DEALER AT SUCH A TERRIFIC PRICE. WELL THE CARD WAS FAKE. WHY DID THIS GUY THINK EVERY MAJOR DEALER AT THE SHOW PASSED ON IT THAT IT WAS STILL THERE SUNDAY MORNING? hIS GREED GOT THE BETTER OF HIM AND THAT APPEARS TO BE THE CASE HERE AS WELL. HE WENT BACK TO GET HIS REFUND AND THE GUY AND HIS LITTLE DISPLAY HAD PACKED AND GONE! Sorry i just noticed i typed all that with the cap locks on..
you know there are ways to get nice cards raw on ebay and other outlets.
I have been fortunate to deal with several board members/ dealers and gotten some very good grades. Let me offer you some validation:
I have purchased raw and gotten my grades back from both submissions:
some were good, others not so good. each and every seller offers a MBG..after i accept the cards its now on me. If I feel they were altered I send them back and a refund is given no questions asked.
here are some sellers I have dealt with and had no problems with in any way..and I can assure you they stand by the product:
(If I forgot anyone I am sorry) a) Rusty Willy b) Mr. Recycle c) Dakota d) Game-Time-Collectibles e) Cards and Brown f) Irishosta Now there were others I just cant remember off the top of my head
Some of the cards I overgraded myself..was expecting a 7 maybe got a 6, maybe got some 8's where I thought they would grade a 7. In the end I did it becuse I enjoy the excitment of the raw and then seeing the grade. Out of 150 cards submitted 2 common nobody's were evid of trim.. and they were just some raw I bought off ebay becuase the card looked good and I still cant see it even though its now back in my possession. ( I guess I really need a better ruler)
Some of the cards I have kept for my personal collection, and others I have sold on ebay.. Now here are the grades.. AND I am Happy:
1 12208040 1954 TOPPS 179 GAIR ALLIE N/A 7 2 12208041 1955 TOPPS 3 ART FOWLER N/A 5 3 12208042 1955 TOPPS 7 JIM HEGAN N/A 6 4 12208043 1955 TOPPS 15 JIM PENDLETON N/A 6 5 12208044 1955 TOPPS 17 BOBBY HOFMAN N/A 6 5 12208045 1955 TOPPS 17 BOBBY HOFMAN N/A 7 6 12208046 1955 TOPPS 39 BILL GLYNN N/A 5 7 12208047 1955 TOPPS 42 WINDY McCALL N/A 6 8 12208048 1955 TOPPS 52 BILL TREMEL N/A 6 8 12208049 1955 TOPPS 52 BILL TREMEL N/A 6 9 12208050 1955 TOPPS 56 RAY JABLONSKI N/A 5 10 12208051 1955 TOPPS 63 JOE COLLINS N/A 6 11 12208052 1955 TOPPS 68 JIM DAVIS N/A 7 11 12208053 1955 TOPPS 68 JIM DAVIS N/A 7 12 12208054 1955 TOPPS 69 ED BAILEY N/A 7 13 12208055 1955 TOPPS 84 CAMILO PASCUAL N/A 7 13 12208056 1955 TOPPS 84 CAMILO PASCUAL N/A 7 14 12208057 1955 TOPPS 86 BILL WILSON N/A 7 14 12208058 1955 TOPPS 86 BILL WILSON N/A 6 15 12208059 1955 TOPPS 88 BOB SKINNER N/A Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming 16 12208060 1955 TOPPS 89 JOE FRAZIER N/A 7 17 12208061 1955 TOPPS 94 RENO BERTOIA N/A 8 18 12208062 1955 TOPPS 97 CARLOS PAULA N/A 8 19 12208063 1955 TOPPS 98 JOHNNY RIDDLE N/A 7 20 12208064 1955 TOPPS 102 WALLY WESTLAKE N/A 7 21 12208065 1955 TOPPS 103 CHARLIE WHITE N/A 8 21 12208066 1955 TOPPS 103 CHARLIE WHITE N/A 7 22 12208067 1955 TOPPS 105 CHUCK DIERING N/A 7 23 12208068 1955 TOPPS 112 NELSON KING N/A 7 24 12208069 1955 TOPPS 115 ELLIS KINDER N/A 8 25 12208070 1955 TOPPS 116 TOM HURD N/A Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming 26 12208071 1955 TOPPS 117 MEL ROACH N/A 7 27 12208072 1955 TOPPS 118 BOB PURKEY N/A 7 28 12208073 1955 TOPPS 121 BILL RENNA N/A 8 29 12208074 1955 TOPPS 131 GRADY HATTON N/A 8 30 12208075 1955 TOPPS 136 BUNKY STEWART N/A 6 31 12208076 1955 TOPPS 140 MEL PARNELL N/A 8 32 12208077 1955 TOPPS 143 DICK SCHOFIELD N/A 7 33 12208078 1955 TOPPS 144 JOE AMALFITANO N/A 7 34 12208079 1955 TOPPS 159 JOHNNY SCHMITZ N/A 6 35 12208080 1955 TOPPS 169 BOB OLDIS N/A 7 36 12208081 1955 TOPPS 170 JIM PEARCE N/A 6 37 12208082 1955 TOPPS 171 DICK BRODOWSKI N/A 6 37 12208083 1955 TOPPS 171 DICK BRODOWSKI N/A 8 38 12208084 1955 TOPPS 174 RUDY MINARCIN N/A 7 39 12208085 1955 TOPPS 182 HUMBERTO ROBINSON N/A 6 40 12208086 1955 TOPPS 184 HARRY PERKOWSKI N/A 6 41 12208087 1955 TOPPS 192 JIM DELSING N/A 6 42 12208088 1955 TOPPS 202 JIM OWENS N/A 6 43 12208089 1955 TOPPS 207 BILL CONSOLO N/A 5 44 12208090 1955 TOPPS 208 RAY MOORE N/A 8
Date Received: 05/11/2005 Date of Grades Posted: 06/14/2005 Date Shipped: 06/14/2005
1 12207033 1960 TOPPS 4 BOB PURKEY N/A 8 2 12207034 1960 TOPPS 9 FAYE THRONEBERRY N/A 8 3 12207035 1960 TOPPS 15 PETE RUNNELS N/A 8 4 12207036 1960 TOPPS 38 JERRY CASALE N/A 8 5 12207037 1960 TOPPS 41 BARRY LATMAN N/A 8 6 12207038 1960 TOPPS 51 JIM COATES N/A 7 7 12207039 1960 TOPPS 57 WIN-SAVERS LOWN/STALEY 6ST 8 12207040 1960 TOPPS 61 EDDIE KASKO N/A 5 9 12207041 1960 TOPPS 68 DAVE HILLMAN N/A 8 10 12207042 1960 TOPPS 77 HANK FOILES N/A 8 11 12207043 1960 TOPPS 83 TONY KUBEK N/A 6 12 12207044 1960 TOPPS 85 FRANK LARY N/A 8 13 12207045 1960 TOPPS 101 BOB MILLER N/A 8 14 12207046 1960 TOPPS 103 DICK FARRELL N/A 8 15 12207047 1960 TOPPS 113 BOB SKINNER N/A 7 16 12207048 1960 TOPPS 117 TOM BORLAND ROOKIE STAR 7 17 12207049 1960 TOPPS 129 BOB HARTMAN ROOKIE STAR 7 18 12207050 1960 TOPPS 133 MANUEL JAVIER ROOKIE STAR 8 19 12207051 1960 TOPPS 134 DERON JOHNSON ROOKIE STAR 6 20 12207052 1960 TOPPS 135 KEN JOHNSON ROOKIE STAR 8 21 12207053 1960 TOPPS 149 BOB NIEMAN N/A 5 22 12207054 1960 TOPPS 161 RAY NARLESKI N/A 8 23 12207055 1960 TOPPS 168 ALEX GRAMMAS N/A 8 24 12207056 1960 TOPPS 198 JERRY LYNCH N/A 6 25 12207057 1960 TOPPS 205 JOHNNY LOGAN N/A 8 26 12207058 1960 TOPPS 215 BOB ELLIOTT N/A 8 27 12207059 1960 TOPPS 221 COOKIE LAVAGETTO N/A 7 28 12207060 1960 TOPPS 225 BILL RIGNEY N/A 8 29 12207061 1960 TOPPS 233 DON ELSTON N/A 6 29 12207062 1960 TOPPS 233 DON ELSTON N/A 8 30 12207063 1960 TOPPS 234 DON DEMETER N/A 8 31 12207064 1960 TOPPS 270 BOB TURLEY N/A 6 32 12207065 1960 TOPPS 277 HARRY BRIGHT N/A 8 32 12207066 1960 TOPPS 277 HARRY BRIGHT N/A 8 33 12207067 1960 TOPPS 294 TONY TAYLOR N/A 8 34 12207068 1960 TOPPS 329 ZACK MONROE N/A 7 35 12207069 1960 TOPPS 331 HENRY MASON N/A 7 36 12207070 1960 TOPPS 337 CAL NEEMAN N/A 8 37 12207071 1960 TOPPS 346 J.C. MARTIN N/A 8 38 12207072 1960 TOPPS 348 BARRY SHETRONE N/A 8 39 12207073 1960 TOPPS 351 DON NOTTEBART N/A 7 40 12207074 1960 TOPPS 353 DON LARSEN N/A 7 41 12207075 1960 TOPPS 357 AL SCHROLL N/A 8OC 42 12207076 1960 TOPPS 383 LEON WAGNER N/A 8 43 12207077 1960 TOPPS 392 TEX CLEVENGER N/A 8 44 12207078 1960 TOPPS 395 HOYT WILHELM N/A 7 45 12207079 1960 TOPPS 400 ROCKY COLAVITO N/A 6 46 12207080 1960 TOPPS 401 BOB DULIBA N/A 8 47 12207081 1960 TOPPS 403 ED SADOWSKI N/A 6 48 12207082 1960 TOPPS 404 BOB RUSH N/A 7 49 12207083 1960 TOPPS 406 BILLY KLAUS N/A 8 50 12207084 1960 TOPPS 408 CARL FURILLO N/A 6 51 12207085 1960 TOPPS 411 ED BAILEY N/A 8 52 12207086 1960 TOPPS 416 HUMBERTO ROBINSON N/A 7 53 12207087 1960 TOPPS 417 CHUCK COTTIER N/A 8 54 12207088 1960 TOPPS 421 DUKE MAAS N/A 8 55 12207089 1960 TOPPS 423 ED FITZGERALD N/A 8 56 12207090 1960 TOPPS 427 AL GRUNWALD N/A 8 57 12207091 1960 TOPPS 428 AL SMITH N/A 7 58 12207092 1960 TOPPS 430 ART DITMAR N/A 7 59 12207093 1960 TOPPS 431 ANDRE RODGERS N/A 7 60 12207094 1960 TOPPS 433 IRV NOREN N/A 8 61 12207095 1960 TOPPS 434 BROOKS LAWRENCE N/A 8 62 12207096 1960 TOPPS 439 TOM BREWER N/A 7 63 12207097 1960 TOPPS 443 CHARLIE MAXWELL N/A 7 64 12207098 1960 TOPPS 451 CURT SIMMONS N/A 6 65 12207099 1960 TOPPS 455 BALTIMORE ORIOLES COACHES 8 66 12207100 1960 TOPPS 458 CHICAGO WHITE SOX COACHES 7 67 12207101 1960 TOPPS 463 L.A. DODGERS COACHES 8 68 12207102 1960 TOPPS 468 ST. LOUIS CARDS COACHES 6 68 12207103 1960 TOPPS 468 ST. LOUIS CARDS COACHES 8 69 12207104 1960 TOPPS 469 SAN FRAN. GIANTS COACHES 8 70 12207105 1960 TOPPS 471 NED GARVER N/A 7 71 12207106 1960 TOPPS 474 HAYWOOD SULLIVAN N/A 8 72 12207107 1960 TOPPS 477 DON FERRARESE N/A 7 73 12207108 1960 TOPPS 479 GEORGES MARANDA N/A 8 74 12207109 1960 TOPPS 482 FRANK BOLLING N/A 7 75 12207110 1960 TOPPS 487 TOM STURDIVANT N/A 8 76 12207111 1960 TOPPS 488 NORM CASH N/A 7 77 12207112 1960 TOPPS 491 MEL ROACH N/A 7 78 12207113 1960 TOPPS 497 JOHN TSITOURIS N/A 8 79 12207114 1960 TOPPS 503 DON LEE N/A 7 80 12207115 1960 TOPPS 515 STAN LOPATA N/A 8 81 12207116 1960 TOPPS 516 MARTY KUTYNA N/A 8 82 12207117 1960 TOPPS 521 MIKE LEE N/A 8 83 12207118 1960 TOPPS 522 KEN HUNT N/A 7 84 12207119 1960 TOPPS 533 LU CLINTON N/A 8 85 12207120 1960 TOPPS 534 KEN MacKENZIE N/A 8 86 12207121 1960 TOPPS 539 GENE BAKER N/A 8 87 12207122 1960 TOPPS 541 TONY CURRY N/A 7 88 12207123 1960 TOPPS 542 KEN HAMLIN N/A 8 89 12207124 1960 TOPPS 544 BILL MONBOUQUETTE N/A 8 90 12207125 1960 TOPPS 549 JOHN BUZHARDT N/A 7 91 12207126 1960 TOPPS 550 JIM LANDIS N/A 8 92 12207127 1960 TOPPS 551 ED RAKOW N/A 8 93 12207128 1960 TOPPS 562 JOE CUNNINGHAM ALL STAR 8 94 12207129 1960 TOPPS 571 BILLY PIERCE ALL STAR 8
Date Received: 05/11/2005 Date of Grades Posted: 05/26/2005 Date Shipped: 05/26/2005
And to the sellers who sold me these cards ...thank you..it was a fair deal when I figured what it would have cost to buy them slabbed already vs. raw and get them graded..
I never tried to hit a "homerun" and make a killing, I just wanted some good cards at a fair deal and I was able to do so after checking on the person I was dealing with. So, it is available, you just need to trust the right people and listen to the others on these boards as I did, and I am happy in the end, and you can be as well. Enjoy the hobby, because in the end..
IJLCards- Great post. It shows that when you do your homework and build good relationships with a few trusted dealers that you can get some great "graded" satisfaction. Hope all your future submissions are as good as these
"Stingray, I did give a different seller neutral, for touting a dutch lot .auction of Barry Bonds cards with hyped details (RC, GU, Graded). I knew I was basically taking a chance... dutch lots are usually not worth it."
WTF!! Excuse me, idiot-- but if you did, in fact receive 20 Bonds card, and you didn't get doubles of any non-RC issues, then how in the hell can you justify leaving neutral feedback. There's a basic concept here which you don't seem to be grasping, and that is this: That it is incumbant upon you to leave POSITIVE feedback if the item is received in a timely manner and the item is received as described. That's how ebay works. You don't leave neutral feedback because you didn't get the card you wanted in a Dutch Auction.
Feel free, at your leisure, to inform both me and the board at large as to whom else I have insulted-- either through ad hominem attacks or other derogatory language.
As an aside, I do think it's peculiar that members of this board are ready to hang a seller at the slightest hint of impropriety, yet when a buyer here engages in practices which violate the spirit of the feedback system we're all supposed to rally for a group hug.
I disagree. Name calling is totally in order here. This buyer is apparently working overtime to discredit sellers who deliver what was described in the auction-- which, by exension, compromises the integrity of the feedback system and works to jeopardize the livelihood of honest sellers.
If you're going to side by idly while seller of PRO cards, etc., are called 'scum of the Earth', or 'wastes of humanity', then you shouldn't have this kind of reaction to me calling an idiot an idiot.
Whenever your ready you can touch upon the points I adressed in my last post. Or, I guess, just call me an idiot--even though 'there's NO reason to call anyone a name!' Whatever works for you.
Look at this from the seller's perspective. He put up an auction, delivered as advertised, and got a neutral. How would you feel if you advertised a 'high end PSA 8' card, then got a neutral from a buyer who said 'card wasn't as high end as I had hoped'. Don't lie to me now-- you'd think the guy was a total tool.
This is the point I'm making. And, you have to take my remarks in context. Remember, this is the same guy who was going to neg a seller even after that seller offered a full refund. So again-- how would you feel if, in the above scenerio, you offered the buyer a refund and he STILL negged you? Would you still feel there was 'NO reason to call anyone a name!'?
Looking forward to your reply,
Boo
Now you're going to really make me look weird after you edited your last post.
This is a general statement and not directed at anyone in particular:
If we are going to have a discussion on anything - why the hostility and emotional overtones?
Last I checked - this was just hobby talk - no one died, no one lost their home, no one lost their job.
Any topic is fair game - this is a panel discussion and we - as a small group - can't shut down any ebay organization or take food out of their collective mouths - that would be overstating our impact IMO.
I do agree with Boo - if the dealers are fair game, so should the buyers.
So - let's have some fun and talk it out - but keep in mind, there are no winners or losers in this discussion - these are intelligent people here and more than capapble of making their own minds up on any topic.
Comments
I just think he's cheesey and irresponsible. I probably wouldn't buy from him... but It doesn't appear that he's breaking any rules...
I hate that when I think I am getting a great deal and it just turns out to be sort of fair... LOL
He could have at least used two or three ID's...
I wouldn't like it either if a seller pumped a card up and made me "THINK" it was nm and it was previously a psa 5... but... had you caught that first, you likely wouldn't have bid... You just have to be careful man... lots o cheese balls out there.
Right now... I am buying raw again also... and it's quite difficult to find those raw "gems." It happens... but more often not...
I am particularly peeved about this "high book value" crap... you know... where someone has a VG-EX 1972 Dr. J Rookie and they put HIGH BOOK VALUE $350.00!!! I just want to email everyone of them and tell them I think they are turds... but... not enough time in the day...
or they are selling a psa 8 common from a 70's set and claim that it's ridiculously rare...
or they charge $4.00 for first class shipping and $2.00 for insurance... on a raw card that will sell under $10.00. MAN that PIS*ES me off ~
But... the lesson might be... just don't bid... don't buy from someone that gives you the willies...
I can find something I want on eBay at a rate of 1 item per minute...
true story here...
I bought this out of print 1980's cd from a 1980's goth group named "Laibach" for $4 in the bargain bin at a used cd store in New Haven...
I ebayed it a couple days later.
It was up to $123.00!!! and I felt so satisfied that I ended the auction early and wrote the seller a similar message to the one you got... like... dear bidder... expectations have long since been surpassed etc...
I gave him cold feet... he perceived me as a scammer... and I lost the deal. ended up selling it to the second high bidder for $75.00.
-G
Click here to view my Knickstars collection and wantlist
<< <i>With the way this threads going, Mike get out that set of steak-knives, we may hit 100 tonight!
Brian
I have been watching the Spurs go down in flames and just got to reading this thread - seems to be heating up!
The way this is going, the last thing I would want to give anyone right now is a sharp instrument!
I suspect that he is also using multiple accounts, or has an eBay bidding buddy or two. Why? I was bidding on a '59 Willie Mays from the same scammer, er seller, and would you believe that same crazy bidding buyer outbid me on it also ran up the bids on the '64 Mantle? See, I knew there was something fishy about this seller, but I just didn't see it. It's just been difficult for me as a newbie collector, because I get fired up about what appears to be a nice looking card, and I think it might be a 7 or better (that's my problem) in reality these cards are few and far between. Another point, the seller already had my trust, because I had already purchased from him before (unfortunately after I placed a max bid, and thinking that there wouldn't be anyone stupid enough to outbid me - definitely a destructive and WRONG way of thinking). I was in no way thinking I was getting over on the seller, by placing my bid, I was just trying to prevent being outbid (biggest eBay no-no). I should have posted in the forums first, but I didn't want to be riddiculed again over the Aaron fiasco. It's a terrible thing to be thought of a sucker, and even more horribly discouraging to realize it is true. I guess if I didn't find anything wrong with the seller, then this all wouldn't matter and everyone would still have their opinions. It's interesting how this type of thing brings out the true personalities of people in their replies to things they strongly agree or disagree with.
After all this, I will be treading more lightly on Ebay especially with vintage raw. I'll just assume that everything is going to be a 6 or lower and bid accordingly. I will definitely be asking for your opinions on items that seem to be sugar coated or questionable. I'm still sure there are those in these forums who still say there's nothing wrong with this seller and it it's my fault for placing the bid - you're probably right, or maybe you're not. But, it sure seems strange he told me I didn't have to pay for the card and won't be giving me a negative feedback doesn't it?
So after all this the seller can continue to con the newbie, unsuspecting, card collector? Everyone else who doesn't fall for this scam, will ignore these auctions and laugh at the suckers who bid - THIS doesn't seem right! I feel I should post negative on his already tarnished feedback to warn people... maybe I should just let this thread die.
<< <i>
So after all this the seller can continue to con the newbie, unsuspecting, card collector? Everyone else who doesn't fall for this scam, will ignore these auctions and laugh at the suckers who bid - THIS doesn't seem right! I feel I should post negative on his already tarnished feedback to warn people... maybe I should just let this thread die. >>
Post a negative after he let you off the hook for a bid that *you* made?
Post a negative after *you* were the only one who did something wrong and unethical?
Come on now...(and quoting John McEnroe) 'you cannot be serious!'
Please don't ever bid on my auctions.
T206's are always being bought.
aloof1003@comcast.net
I knew that bid history SMELLED!
<< <i>In case anyone cares to know, the seller wrote me back - I DON'T HAVE TO PAY HIM! He also said he won't be giving me negative feedback. So, now what? Is he guilty of being a scandalous, dirty, scammer who preys on the newbie card collector? I took his bait - hook, line, and sinker. He basically caught me and threw me back in.
I suspect that he is also using multiple accounts, or has an eBay bidding buddy or two. Why? I was bidding on a '59 Willie Mays from the same scammer, er seller, and would you believe that same crazy bidding buyer outbid me on it also ran up the bids on the '64 Mantle? See, I knew there was something fishy about this seller, but I just didn't see it. It's just been difficult for me as a newbie collector, because I get fired up about what appears to be a nice looking card, and I think it might be a 7 or better (that's my problem) in reality these cards are few and far between. Another point, the seller already had my trust, because I had already purchased from him before (unfortunately after I placed a max bid, and thinking that there wouldn't be anyone stupid enough to outbid me - definitely a destructive and WRONG way of thinking). I was in no way thinking I was getting over on the seller, by placing my bid, I was just trying to prevent being outbid (biggest eBay no-no). I should have posted in the forums first, but I didn't want to be riddiculed again over the Aaron fiasco. It's a terrible thing to be thought of a sucker, and even more horribly discouraging to realize it is true. I guess if I didn't find anything wrong with the seller, then this all wouldn't matter and everyone would still have their opinions. It's interesting how this type of thing brings out the true personalities of people in their replies to things they strongly agree or disagree with.
After all this, I will be treading more lightly on Ebay especially with vintage raw. I'll just assume that everything is going to be a 6 or lower and bid accordingly. I will definitely be asking for your opinions on items that seem to be sugar coated or questionable. I'm still sure there are those in these forums who still say there's nothing wrong with this seller and it it's my fault for placing the bid - you're probably right, or maybe you're not. But, it sure seems strange he told me I didn't have to pay for the card and won't be giving me a negative feedback doesn't it?
So after all this the seller can continue to con the newbie, unsuspecting, card collector? Everyone else who doesn't fall for this scam, will ignore these auctions and laugh at the suckers who bid - THIS doesn't seem right! I feel I should post negative on his already tarnished feedback to warn people... maybe I should just let this thread die. >>
After a traumatic experience like this, it sounds like you need a hug. Just make sure the next time you venture onto the information superhighway, you have an adult by your side.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Lothar, go away. Or at least get rid of the caps lock.
Whether or not one thinks that this seller is a scammer is of your own opinion and can be argued until the end of time. The buyer here is the one responsible for making his own choices of what to purchase or not. If you do not do a little research into something first then you have no one to blame but yourself. I think buyer, especially new ones, have a tendancy to get a little gung-ho on bidding or buying something they want and get burnt. A little investigating into the sellers recent purchases would have let the buyer know that this card was previously graded. This has always been a "buyer beware" market, lesson learned.
Boo, why is it everytime I read your posts your ragging on someone?
Stingray
<< <i>More recently, this auction (i'm taking the non-paying bidder neg for this one). I was even bidding on this PSA 5 card too but he outbid me. Then he, cracked the case and would have doubled his money! >>
He bid all of $55 and the seller won the PSA 5 card for $224. Than a week later he bids $450 for the same card raw that he only thought was worth $55 in a PSA holder? He already had previous dealings with the seller and now he wants to neg. him after he lets him off the hook?
This guy is/was out of control including bidding on a raw 64 Rose at the price of what a graded 7 sells for. Check out feedback on this lot of unopened packs he bought for $10 and were advertised as 10 to 20 years old.
<< <i> Not worth what I paid best card was Leaf Bagwell Gold card, most 89-91. YMMV. >>
Did he stop buying grab bag lots after this? Nooooooooooooooooooooooo. Check out the feedback he leaves for others, he sure does like giving out neutrals.
<< <i>Asked for only Baseball, got FB and BsktBall. Promised BB as I paid 25 lots! . >>
<< <i>20 lots, all regular cards, no GU, no RC, no Auto. Will not repeat buy. >>
And these are just the ones he did not receive what he thought was a card/cards worth more than he paid for. I think the buyer had very little direction in what he wanted and wants to blame everone but his own greed because the seller broke out a card and sold it raw. What did he think the seller was doing replacing this great raw card with a PSA 5 he just bought off ebay because he does not like to send cards in himself? How would that explain the other Mantle the seller bought off the same seller?
I do not like what the seller is doing(but he was not hiding it or the shady bidding very well) but bid less for raw than for graded and make sure if you spend good money get a return policy/cert. level promise before you bid. I would think a Ebayer for over 6 years would be a little more savvy than this.
JMO
Jim
I propose that we create an alternative auction site called "Ebay Lite" or "Ebay Jr." for those who cannot resist hitting the "bid now" button.
No item will be sold for more than $20, and the bidder will be asked three times about the bid before it registers.
"Are you sure that you want to bid $4.99 on this item?"
"Just making sure if you are certain about your bid."
"Oooooo-kaaaaaay if you really want to bid....."
Stingray
Isn't there an "Ebay For Dummies" book?
<< <i>In case anyone cares to know, the seller wrote me back - I DON'T HAVE TO PAY HIM! He also said he won't be giving me negative feedback. So, now what? Is he guilty of being a scandalous, dirty, scammer who preys on the newbie card collector? I took his bait - hook, line, and sinker. He basically caught me and threw me back in.
I suspect that he is also using multiple accounts, or has an eBay bidding buddy or two. Why? I was bidding on a '59 Willie Mays from the same scammer, er seller, and would you believe that same crazy bidding buyer outbid me on it also ran up the bids on the '64 Mantle? See, I knew there was something fishy about this seller, but I just didn't see it. It's just been difficult for me as a newbie collector, because I get fired up about what appears to be a nice looking card, and I think it might be a 7 or better (that's my problem) in reality these cards are few and far between. Another point, the seller already had my trust, because I had already purchased from him before (unfortunately after I placed a max bid, and thinking that there wouldn't be anyone stupid enough to outbid me - definitely a destructive and WRONG way of thinking). I was in no way thinking I was getting over on the seller, by placing my bid, I was just trying to prevent being outbid (biggest eBay no-no). I should have posted in the forums first, but I didn't want to be riddiculed again over the Aaron fiasco. It's a terrible thing to be thought of a sucker, and even more horribly discouraging to realize it is true. I guess if I didn't find anything wrong with the seller, then this all wouldn't matter and everyone would still have their opinions. It's interesting how this type of thing brings out the true personalities of people in their replies to things they strongly agree or disagree with.
After all this, I will be treading more lightly on Ebay especially with vintage raw. I'll just assume that everything is going to be a 6 or lower and bid accordingly. I will definitely be asking for your opinions on items that seem to be sugar coated or questionable. I'm still sure there are those in these forums who still say there's nothing wrong with this seller and it it's my fault for placing the bid - you're probably right, or maybe you're not. But, it sure seems strange he told me I didn't have to pay for the card and won't be giving me a negative feedback doesn't it?
So after all this the seller can continue to con the newbie, unsuspecting, card collector? Everyone else who doesn't fall for this scam, will ignore these auctions and laugh at the suckers who bid - THIS doesn't seem right! I feel I should post negative on his already tarnished feedback to warn people... maybe I should just let this thread die. >>
Oh my God.. you need help, kid.. but i'm blocking your user ID from ever bidding on my auctions..
Stingray
Well, help is only a click away!
"It's interesting how this type of thing brings out the true personalities of people..."
Then he says...
"He also said he won't be giving me negative feedback. I feel I should post negative on his already tarnished feedback..."
I guess this type of thing does bring out the true personalities. I'm putting a bidder's block this guy as well.
To continue on the crack and sell raw. Here's a really nice card that would do better raw with the right description. Does anyone think that if this were done...should it be mentioned that the card was graded 6?
That could cut both ways - some would bid accordingly and others may think that the card was undergraded!
The card is graded correctly - the upper left corner is soft and missing a very tiny amount of white facing.
But, I promise that if I said it looks NM with a very slight touch on the upper left corner, it would still do very well IMO.
mike
I disagree as i know almost all that have replied to you. many sell, yes but only duplicates and some stuff sio they can further their COLLECTING goals.
steve
<< <i>To continue on the crack and sell raw. Here's a really nice card that would do better raw with the right description. Does anyone think that if this were done...should it be mentioned that the card was graded 6?
That could cut both ways - some would bid accordingly and others may think that the card was undergraded!
The card is graded correctly - the upper left corner is soft and missing a very tiny amount of white facing.
But, I promise that if I said it looks NM with a very slight touch on the upper left corner, it would still do very well IMO.
mike >>
I agree, with a hyped up description just about any PSA 5 or 6 can be sold for big $$
The problem in this case is that the seller described a known PSA 5 card with the following misinformation:
"A superior card" (lie)
"4 SHARP corners" (lie)
"HIgh PSA value of $2200" (irrelevant and misleading)
NONE of which accurately describe the card, and all of which are either deceiving or outright lies. Not to mention conveniently forgetting to mention the 1 IMPORTANT factor of a CREASE, which no doubt would have affected the price, and the seller knew that.
In your case of the 64 Mantle, it is indeed a decent card....for a PSA 6. I don't think it has to be mentioned that it was a 6 at one time, but there are reasons that PSA graded it a 6 and whatever those are (soft corners, rough edges, off-center, print mark, or whatever, those should definitely be mentioned in my opinion. Yes, the buyer should decide what he is willing to pay for a card, but it's up to the seller to supply enough information for the buyer to make a decision. Withholding key information (like a crease), or pumping up a cards description because you know that nobody can see everything in the scan (especially if it's been "adjusted") is just wrong.
This ends my portion of this thread, with the hope that this dead horse stays dead.
Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variations Updated 2/13/05
<< <i>What makes you think that this forum has more sellers then collectors?
I disagree as i know almost all that have replied to you. many sell, yes but only duplicates and some stuff sio they can further their COLLECTING goals.
steve >>
I recant, I do not really know if there are more sellers here. It just seems that more people were in agreement with the seller and the seller did nothing wrong. I do acknowledge that I have made mistakes, and shamefully repeated the mistakes.
Stingray
1959 Willie Mays PSA 5
Stingray, I did give a different seller neutral, for touting a dutch lot .auction of Barry Bonds cards with hyped details (RC, GU, Graded). I knew I was basically taking a chance... dutch lots are usually not worth it.
<< <i>This same seller just purchased another PSA 5. I bet he's going to crack it and sell it raw!
1959 Willie Mays PSA 5 >>
And?
There's nothing raw or unethical about it. Don't like his practices, don't bid on his cards.
<< <i>
And?
There's nothing raw or unethical about it. Don't like his practices, don't bid on his cards. >>
I can't understand why you feel strongly that there is nothing wrong with doing this? The act of buying the card and cracking it doesn't have anything to do with it being wrong. What's wrong is the way he's reselling them. This is not being a smart business man, rather he is a deceiver. Sure, I can see if he honestly represents the card, but he doesn't. It's all too misleading. You're darn right i'm never bidding on his cards again, even if they were in PSA holders.
<< <i>rather he is a deceiver. Sure, I can see if he honestly represents the card, but he doesn't. It's all too misleading. You're darn right i'm never bidding on his cards again, even if they were in PSA holders. >>
He says it's authentic (it is).
He includes scans of front and back (big ones too).
Tell me again how it's misleading?
I see both sides of this arguement to have very valid points. But the most valid point is the buyer has the greater amount of responsibility when it comes to spending his/her dollar.
the person selling the mays had their own hype on the card - looks like a 7, anything under a 7 price is a steal...i
Ralph, a newbie buyer on eBay, keeps wasting $$ trying to get more for less, but ends up getting less for more because he keeps buying cards from some slick operator who has beat him to it.
Ralph comes home to Ed Norton and Alice and talks about how he can't catch a break in the market. Norton says "Ralphie boy, why don't you just buy a nice PSA card to begin with, if that's what you want in the end?" Alice just rolls her eyes, having been through this with Ralph many times before. If there's a hard way to do things, Ralph has to try that way first.
Ralph thinks nobody understands that he doesn't want to be just another shmuck paying retail for cards, he wants to be a big wheel in the hobby, he wants to be the slick operator who's on the winning end of lopsided transactions. So he sits down at his computer and runs his latest idea for a description keyword search on eBay: "(Mantle, Ruth, Cobb) (PRO, GEM, AAA, ungraded, raw) (genuine, real, authentic, grandma, grandpa, cigar box, attic, estate sale)"
This time for sure, he thinks....
Stingray
I do see where the guy may be hyping a bit but....ya gotta give the guy credit...he's surfing ebay for "apparently" undergraded PSA cards - that card looks pretty nice as a 5 and may be worthy of selling as a weak 7 or hi end exmt.
Here's a nice 33G that could be cracked and resold as nmt - I got this raw from Superior 15 yrs ago - didn't pay a lot but Greg B. said the card was nm-mt?
mike
<< <i>This same seller just purchased another PSA 5. I bet he's going to crack it and sell it raw!
1959 Willie Mays PSA 5
Stingray, I did give a different seller neutral, for touting a dutch lot .auction of Barry Bonds cards with hyped details (RC, GU, Graded). I knew I was basically taking a chance... dutch lots are usually not worth it. >>
Dutch auctions are usually not worth it? But you placed a bid anyway?
Congratulations on being the biggest mark on the PSA forums.
It's quite obvious you're a glutton for punishment in real life AND on these message boards. Why don't you just quit while you're behind?
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
or at least post of the day!
I have been fortunate to deal with several board members/ dealers and gotten some very good grades. Let me offer you some validation:
I have purchased raw and gotten my grades back from both submissions:
some were good, others not so good. each and every seller offers a MBG..after i accept the cards its now on me. If I feel they were altered I send them back and a refund is given no questions asked.
here are some sellers I have dealt with and had no problems with in any way..and I can assure you they stand by the product:
(If I forgot anyone I am sorry)
a) Rusty Willy
b) Mr. Recycle
c) Dakota
d) Game-Time-Collectibles
e) Cards and Brown
f) Irishosta
Now there were others I just cant remember off the top of my head
Some of the cards I overgraded myself..was expecting a 7 maybe got a 6, maybe got some 8's where I thought they would grade a 7. In the end I did it becuse I enjoy the excitment of the raw and then seeing the grade. Out of 150 cards submitted 2 common nobody's were evid of trim..
and they were just some raw I bought off ebay becuase the card looked good and I still cant see it even though its now back in my possession. ( I guess I really need a better ruler)
Some of the cards I have kept for my personal collection, and others I have sold on ebay..
Now here are the grades..
AND I am Happy:
1 12208040 1954 TOPPS 179 GAIR ALLIE N/A 7
2 12208041 1955 TOPPS 3 ART FOWLER N/A 5
3 12208042 1955 TOPPS 7 JIM HEGAN N/A 6
4 12208043 1955 TOPPS 15 JIM PENDLETON N/A 6
5 12208044 1955 TOPPS 17 BOBBY HOFMAN N/A 6
5 12208045 1955 TOPPS 17 BOBBY HOFMAN N/A 7
6 12208046 1955 TOPPS 39 BILL GLYNN N/A 5
7 12208047 1955 TOPPS 42 WINDY McCALL N/A 6
8 12208048 1955 TOPPS 52 BILL TREMEL N/A 6
8 12208049 1955 TOPPS 52 BILL TREMEL N/A 6
9 12208050 1955 TOPPS 56 RAY JABLONSKI N/A 5
10 12208051 1955 TOPPS 63 JOE COLLINS N/A 6
11 12208052 1955 TOPPS 68 JIM DAVIS N/A 7
11 12208053 1955 TOPPS 68 JIM DAVIS N/A 7
12 12208054 1955 TOPPS 69 ED BAILEY N/A 7
13 12208055 1955 TOPPS 84 CAMILO PASCUAL N/A 7
13 12208056 1955 TOPPS 84 CAMILO PASCUAL N/A 7
14 12208057 1955 TOPPS 86 BILL WILSON N/A 7
14 12208058 1955 TOPPS 86 BILL WILSON N/A 6
15 12208059 1955 TOPPS 88 BOB SKINNER N/A Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming
16 12208060 1955 TOPPS 89 JOE FRAZIER N/A 7
17 12208061 1955 TOPPS 94 RENO BERTOIA N/A 8
18 12208062 1955 TOPPS 97 CARLOS PAULA N/A 8
19 12208063 1955 TOPPS 98 JOHNNY RIDDLE N/A 7
20 12208064 1955 TOPPS 102 WALLY WESTLAKE N/A 7
21 12208065 1955 TOPPS 103 CHARLIE WHITE N/A 8
21 12208066 1955 TOPPS 103 CHARLIE WHITE N/A 7
22 12208067 1955 TOPPS 105 CHUCK DIERING N/A 7
23 12208068 1955 TOPPS 112 NELSON KING N/A 7
24 12208069 1955 TOPPS 115 ELLIS KINDER N/A 8
25 12208070 1955 TOPPS 116 TOM HURD N/A Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming
26 12208071 1955 TOPPS 117 MEL ROACH N/A 7
27 12208072 1955 TOPPS 118 BOB PURKEY N/A 7
28 12208073 1955 TOPPS 121 BILL RENNA N/A 8
29 12208074 1955 TOPPS 131 GRADY HATTON N/A 8
30 12208075 1955 TOPPS 136 BUNKY STEWART N/A 6
31 12208076 1955 TOPPS 140 MEL PARNELL N/A 8
32 12208077 1955 TOPPS 143 DICK SCHOFIELD N/A 7
33 12208078 1955 TOPPS 144 JOE AMALFITANO N/A 7
34 12208079 1955 TOPPS 159 JOHNNY SCHMITZ N/A 6
35 12208080 1955 TOPPS 169 BOB OLDIS N/A 7
36 12208081 1955 TOPPS 170 JIM PEARCE N/A 6
37 12208082 1955 TOPPS 171 DICK BRODOWSKI N/A 6
37 12208083 1955 TOPPS 171 DICK BRODOWSKI N/A 8
38 12208084 1955 TOPPS 174 RUDY MINARCIN N/A 7
39 12208085 1955 TOPPS 182 HUMBERTO ROBINSON N/A 6
40 12208086 1955 TOPPS 184 HARRY PERKOWSKI N/A 6
41 12208087 1955 TOPPS 192 JIM DELSING N/A 6
42 12208088 1955 TOPPS 202 JIM OWENS N/A 6
43 12208089 1955 TOPPS 207 BILL CONSOLO N/A 5
44 12208090 1955 TOPPS 208 RAY MOORE N/A 8
Date Received: 05/11/2005
Date of Grades Posted: 06/14/2005
Date Shipped: 06/14/2005
1 12207033 1960 TOPPS 4 BOB PURKEY N/A 8
2 12207034 1960 TOPPS 9 FAYE THRONEBERRY N/A 8
3 12207035 1960 TOPPS 15 PETE RUNNELS N/A 8
4 12207036 1960 TOPPS 38 JERRY CASALE N/A 8
5 12207037 1960 TOPPS 41 BARRY LATMAN N/A 8
6 12207038 1960 TOPPS 51 JIM COATES N/A 7
7 12207039 1960 TOPPS 57 WIN-SAVERS LOWN/STALEY 6ST
8 12207040 1960 TOPPS 61 EDDIE KASKO N/A 5
9 12207041 1960 TOPPS 68 DAVE HILLMAN N/A 8
10 12207042 1960 TOPPS 77 HANK FOILES N/A 8
11 12207043 1960 TOPPS 83 TONY KUBEK N/A 6
12 12207044 1960 TOPPS 85 FRANK LARY N/A 8
13 12207045 1960 TOPPS 101 BOB MILLER N/A 8
14 12207046 1960 TOPPS 103 DICK FARRELL N/A 8
15 12207047 1960 TOPPS 113 BOB SKINNER N/A 7
16 12207048 1960 TOPPS 117 TOM BORLAND ROOKIE STAR 7
17 12207049 1960 TOPPS 129 BOB HARTMAN ROOKIE STAR 7
18 12207050 1960 TOPPS 133 MANUEL JAVIER ROOKIE STAR 8
19 12207051 1960 TOPPS 134 DERON JOHNSON ROOKIE STAR 6
20 12207052 1960 TOPPS 135 KEN JOHNSON ROOKIE STAR 8
21 12207053 1960 TOPPS 149 BOB NIEMAN N/A 5
22 12207054 1960 TOPPS 161 RAY NARLESKI N/A 8
23 12207055 1960 TOPPS 168 ALEX GRAMMAS N/A 8
24 12207056 1960 TOPPS 198 JERRY LYNCH N/A 6
25 12207057 1960 TOPPS 205 JOHNNY LOGAN N/A 8
26 12207058 1960 TOPPS 215 BOB ELLIOTT N/A 8
27 12207059 1960 TOPPS 221 COOKIE LAVAGETTO N/A 7
28 12207060 1960 TOPPS 225 BILL RIGNEY N/A 8
29 12207061 1960 TOPPS 233 DON ELSTON N/A 6
29 12207062 1960 TOPPS 233 DON ELSTON N/A 8
30 12207063 1960 TOPPS 234 DON DEMETER N/A 8
31 12207064 1960 TOPPS 270 BOB TURLEY N/A 6
32 12207065 1960 TOPPS 277 HARRY BRIGHT N/A 8
32 12207066 1960 TOPPS 277 HARRY BRIGHT N/A 8
33 12207067 1960 TOPPS 294 TONY TAYLOR N/A 8
34 12207068 1960 TOPPS 329 ZACK MONROE N/A 7
35 12207069 1960 TOPPS 331 HENRY MASON N/A 7
36 12207070 1960 TOPPS 337 CAL NEEMAN N/A 8
37 12207071 1960 TOPPS 346 J.C. MARTIN N/A 8
38 12207072 1960 TOPPS 348 BARRY SHETRONE N/A 8
39 12207073 1960 TOPPS 351 DON NOTTEBART N/A 7
40 12207074 1960 TOPPS 353 DON LARSEN N/A 7
41 12207075 1960 TOPPS 357 AL SCHROLL N/A 8OC
42 12207076 1960 TOPPS 383 LEON WAGNER N/A 8
43 12207077 1960 TOPPS 392 TEX CLEVENGER N/A 8
44 12207078 1960 TOPPS 395 HOYT WILHELM N/A 7
45 12207079 1960 TOPPS 400 ROCKY COLAVITO N/A 6
46 12207080 1960 TOPPS 401 BOB DULIBA N/A 8
47 12207081 1960 TOPPS 403 ED SADOWSKI N/A 6
48 12207082 1960 TOPPS 404 BOB RUSH N/A 7
49 12207083 1960 TOPPS 406 BILLY KLAUS N/A 8
50 12207084 1960 TOPPS 408 CARL FURILLO N/A 6
51 12207085 1960 TOPPS 411 ED BAILEY N/A 8
52 12207086 1960 TOPPS 416 HUMBERTO ROBINSON N/A 7
53 12207087 1960 TOPPS 417 CHUCK COTTIER N/A 8
54 12207088 1960 TOPPS 421 DUKE MAAS N/A 8
55 12207089 1960 TOPPS 423 ED FITZGERALD N/A 8
56 12207090 1960 TOPPS 427 AL GRUNWALD N/A 8
57 12207091 1960 TOPPS 428 AL SMITH N/A 7
58 12207092 1960 TOPPS 430 ART DITMAR N/A 7
59 12207093 1960 TOPPS 431 ANDRE RODGERS N/A 7
60 12207094 1960 TOPPS 433 IRV NOREN N/A 8
61 12207095 1960 TOPPS 434 BROOKS LAWRENCE N/A 8
62 12207096 1960 TOPPS 439 TOM BREWER N/A 7
63 12207097 1960 TOPPS 443 CHARLIE MAXWELL N/A 7
64 12207098 1960 TOPPS 451 CURT SIMMONS N/A 6
65 12207099 1960 TOPPS 455 BALTIMORE ORIOLES COACHES 8
66 12207100 1960 TOPPS 458 CHICAGO WHITE SOX COACHES 7
67 12207101 1960 TOPPS 463 L.A. DODGERS COACHES 8
68 12207102 1960 TOPPS 468 ST. LOUIS CARDS COACHES 6
68 12207103 1960 TOPPS 468 ST. LOUIS CARDS COACHES 8
69 12207104 1960 TOPPS 469 SAN FRAN. GIANTS COACHES 8
70 12207105 1960 TOPPS 471 NED GARVER N/A 7
71 12207106 1960 TOPPS 474 HAYWOOD SULLIVAN N/A 8
72 12207107 1960 TOPPS 477 DON FERRARESE N/A 7
73 12207108 1960 TOPPS 479 GEORGES MARANDA N/A 8
74 12207109 1960 TOPPS 482 FRANK BOLLING N/A 7
75 12207110 1960 TOPPS 487 TOM STURDIVANT N/A 8
76 12207111 1960 TOPPS 488 NORM CASH N/A 7
77 12207112 1960 TOPPS 491 MEL ROACH N/A 7
78 12207113 1960 TOPPS 497 JOHN TSITOURIS N/A 8
79 12207114 1960 TOPPS 503 DON LEE N/A 7
80 12207115 1960 TOPPS 515 STAN LOPATA N/A 8
81 12207116 1960 TOPPS 516 MARTY KUTYNA N/A 8
82 12207117 1960 TOPPS 521 MIKE LEE N/A 8
83 12207118 1960 TOPPS 522 KEN HUNT N/A 7
84 12207119 1960 TOPPS 533 LU CLINTON N/A 8
85 12207120 1960 TOPPS 534 KEN MacKENZIE N/A 8
86 12207121 1960 TOPPS 539 GENE BAKER N/A 8
87 12207122 1960 TOPPS 541 TONY CURRY N/A 7
88 12207123 1960 TOPPS 542 KEN HAMLIN N/A 8
89 12207124 1960 TOPPS 544 BILL MONBOUQUETTE N/A 8
90 12207125 1960 TOPPS 549 JOHN BUZHARDT N/A 7
91 12207126 1960 TOPPS 550 JIM LANDIS N/A 8
92 12207127 1960 TOPPS 551 ED RAKOW N/A 8
93 12207128 1960 TOPPS 562 JOE CUNNINGHAM ALL STAR 8
94 12207129 1960 TOPPS 571 BILLY PIERCE ALL STAR 8
Date Received: 05/11/2005
Date of Grades Posted: 05/26/2005
Date Shipped: 05/26/2005
And to the sellers who sold me these cards ...thank you..it was a fair deal when I figured what it would have cost to buy them slabbed already vs. raw and get them graded..
I never tried to hit a "homerun" and make a killing, I just wanted some good cards at a fair deal and I was able to do so after checking on the person I was dealing with. So, it is available, you just need to trust the right people and listen to the others on these boards as I did, and I am happy in the end, and you can be as well. Enjoy the hobby, because in the end..
You Just Got To Love Cards!!!
Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
Hope all your future submissions are as good as these
WTF!! Excuse me, idiot-- but if you did, in fact receive 20 Bonds card, and you didn't get doubles of any non-RC issues, then how in the hell can you justify leaving neutral feedback. There's a basic concept here which you don't seem to be grasping, and that is this: That it is incumbant upon you to leave POSITIVE feedback if the item is received in a timely manner and the item is received as described. That's how ebay works. You don't leave neutral feedback because you didn't get the card you wanted in a Dutch Auction.
This is ridiculous. Please, bud, just go away.
<< <i>NO reason to call anyone a name! >>
But if Boopotts can't call people names, how will he be able to post at all?
Feel free, at your leisure, to inform both me and the board at large as to whom else I have insulted-- either through ad hominem attacks or other derogatory language.
As an aside, I do think it's peculiar that members of this board are ready to hang a seller at the slightest hint of impropriety, yet when a buyer here engages in practices which violate the spirit of the feedback system we're all supposed to rally for a group hug.
But I digress-- looking forward to your reply.
Best,
Boo
I disagree. Name calling is totally in order here. This buyer is apparently working overtime to discredit sellers who deliver what was described in the auction-- which, by exension, compromises the integrity of the feedback system and works to jeopardize the livelihood of honest sellers.
If you're going to side by idly while seller of PRO cards, etc., are called 'scum of the Earth', or 'wastes of humanity', then you shouldn't have this kind of reaction to me calling an idiot an idiot.
Whenever your ready you can touch upon the points I adressed in my last post. Or, I guess, just call me an idiot--even though 'there's NO reason to call anyone a name!' Whatever works for you.
Look at this from the seller's perspective. He put up an auction, delivered as advertised, and got a neutral. How would you feel if you advertised a 'high end PSA 8' card, then got a neutral from a buyer who said 'card wasn't as high end as I had hoped'. Don't lie to me now-- you'd think the guy was a total tool.
This is the point I'm making. And, you have to take my remarks in context. Remember, this is the same guy who was going to neg a seller even after that seller offered a full refund. So again-- how would you feel if, in the above scenerio, you offered the buyer a refund and he STILL negged you? Would you still feel there was 'NO reason to call anyone a name!'?
Looking forward to your reply,
Boo
Now you're going to really make me look weird after you edited your last post.
Who's ass? The mythical buyer?
If we are going to have a discussion on anything - why the hostility and emotional overtones?
Last I checked - this was just hobby talk - no one died, no one lost their home, no one lost their job.
Any topic is fair game - this is a panel discussion and we - as a small group - can't shut down any ebay organization or take food out of their collective mouths - that would be overstating our impact IMO.
I do agree with Boo - if the dealers are fair game, so should the buyers.
So - let's have some fun and talk it out - but keep in mind, there are no winners or losers in this discussion - these are intelligent people here and more than capapble of making their own minds up on any topic.
Just some thoughts
mike