Honestly, I don't see anything *that* wrong with what this seller is doing. Remember a few months ago when an ebay auction had a 1952 Mantle and the flip from a PSA holder? The seller said he bought the card slabbed but removed it so it would display better. Most everyone said this was a scam, but a board member bought the card and successfully had it re-slabbed. In that case, people jumped on the seller because he DID say the cards were previously graded.
There's a different issue if this seller is misrepresenting the cards, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
I see nothing wrong with what this seller is doing. He is finding graded cards with outstanding eye appeal for the grade, cracking them and selling them raw. The ones that I looked at were nice cards, and given their history, are most likely un-altered. If he is guilty of anything it is preying on people's greed.
The funny thing is that if we was just a little slicker and had seperate buying and selling IDs, no one would have every known!
The seller is full of it. And most people know that people overgrade their cards on ebay, so why is it a shock to anyone when someone makes money flipping? The seller description is the usual BS, but he never claims the card is NRMT or MINT or whatever, he gives a lame ass description and then lets you THINK the cards is a PSA 9. I like his disclaimer that he doesn't guarantee what grade the card will comeback, especially since he knows it's a PSA 5 or so.
We should all just collect comics.
Running an Ebay store sure takes a lot more time than a person would think!
I know this is OT, but I don't understand graded comics. With coins, stamps and cards you can still see and enjoy the entire item. Comics get locked in a plastic prison never to be read again. How disappointing is that?
srs1a- I totally agree. No one put a gun to the head of the buyer and made him bid. Than coming onto a message board to plead his case, further displays his ignorance. Especially since he has asked for this advice before, received responses, and still made the same mistakes.
This reminds me of the people who sue fast-food restaurants for making them fat. Who told them to eat 5 burgers a sitting? When are people going to take responsibility for their actions (such as bidding on cards on Ebay)?
If the guy can buy a car for x amount and sell it for double that, why are we criticizing it? He's a smart business man...isn't that what businesses do, make money?
This is one of the few quotes in this thread that makes sense.
I know this is OT, but I don't understand graded comics. With coins, stamps and cards you can still see and enjoy the entire item. Comics get locked in a plastic prison never to be read again. How disappointing is that?
ajw- check out the comics board on SGC's site. There are numerous threads about this subject that make for good reading.
I know this is OT, but I don't understand graded comics. With coins, stamps and cards you can still see and enjoy the entire item. Comics get locked in a plastic prison never to be read again. How disappointing is that? >>
ajw - I have a buddy who collects Mad Magazines; he's got a couple slabbed, but he always gets a lesser graded raw one for reading purposes.
This isn't as far OT as you might think - I've always enjoyed the sensory part of card collecting. The touch and feel of a crisp new card or stack of cards is something you can't experience when the card is slabbed.
Mark (amerbbcards)
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
<< <i>The seller is full of it. And most people know that people overgrade their cards on ebay, so why is it a shock to anyone when someone makes money flipping? The seller description is the usual BS, but he never claims the card is NRMT or MINT or whatever, he gives a lame ass description and then lets you THINK the cards is a PSA 9. I like his disclaimer that he doesn't guarantee what grade the card will comeback, especially since he knows it's a PSA 5 or so.
We should all just collect comics. >>
How is he full of BS? By your own admission, 'he never claims the card is NRMT or MINT'.
I find it completely amazing that pretty much everyone thinks this sham seller is on the up and up. Let's see, for one thing he completely forgets to mention that the card has a crease, which he knows full well since he bought it from the original seller who did mention it. Tell me, how many peolpe here think it would have brought as much moneuy if the crease would have been mentioned? Then there is the obvoiusly "brightened" scan to make the card appear better than it actually is. Of course, then there is the attempt to convince you you are getting something more valuable than you really are by usuing flowery language like: "SUPERIOR in its condition and very high in book value. Four great corners, beautiful color, minimal surface wear for its age, great centering, and a beautiful back!"
Superior??? In otherwords infering it's nothing less than a HIGH GRADE card. The corners are anything but GREAT (Maybe for an EX 5), the color is great ......NOW, because the scan has been "brightened"., etc...
Each one of these statements, in my opinion, justifies the item to be returned or a full refund.
How about his? "Current High Book Value for this amazing card, according to PSA's Online Priceguide is a whopping $2,200"
Infering that it is worth $2200 because it is a HIGH GRADE card.
There are many types of deception. You can outright lie or you can just NOT tell everything.
And yes, yo ucan use the "ask sekller a question" button, but for one thing the seller doesn't have to respond or even tell the truth. I'me sure he would be forthcoming with the information that the card was creased and that it had been previously graded a 5 by PSA, if he was asked. Actually, I doubt it since that would probably cost him bids.
I've seen this sort of thing in the pst and I've seen sellers kicked off ebay for this exact thing. The problem here is that for some strange reason, no one thinks that withholding information about the condition of the card and "beautifying" the scan is wrong.
Oh yeah, it's also EXTREMELY wrong to quote PSA's SMR values for non-PSA graded cards. That, at the very least, is keyword spamming, and deceptive.
Football collector 1948-1995, Rams oddball cards & memorabilia, Diamond match. Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variationsUpdated 2/13/05
Nevermind. I'll leave it alone now. I learned along time ago that it's unlikely to change peoples opinion when you are in the minority, and so I move on.
Football collector 1948-1995, Rams oddball cards & memorabilia, Diamond match. Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variationsUpdated 2/13/05
At what point is a potential buyer not entitled to asking for additional scans, or asking for more information?
I know full well that if I am going to buy a raw card, let alone one for $400, I sure as hell am going to have multiple scans both front and back, and then, and only then, will I make a decision.
At what point does the buyer take responsibility for this? So what if he bought a 5, cracked it open, and sold it raw?
It sounds to me like the buyer in this case thought he was going to get over on the seller, and pick up a potential high grade card for well under what it would sell for slabbed.
Then the buyer does some research (after he bid/bought? curious approach there), and finds out it's worthy of a 5. Just how exactly is the seller in the wrong here?
I am not trying to belittle the buyer (it sucks when you make a buying mistake), but to then bail out because you overbid on an item, or because you suddenly don't think the item is worth that much is much worse than what the seller did in this case.
<< <i> Posted by loose 2dueces: You should be more careful who you label untrust worthy. Didnt say I was for it, I say I'm against not paying for it. >>
What is the difference between the seller buying it with the thought of making a profit, and the buyer buying it from him with the same thought, if that was his intent? Everyone seems to be out to try and make a buck. No big deal. But, when a seller starts using questionable tactics, descriptions and scans to influence potential buyers.....
I agree though, a buyer should question sellers if things are not clear to them. I do it all the time. But, I know asking a seller if a particular card had been previously graded would not be a question that would even cross my mind.
Buying online is NOT like buying at shows or shops where cards can be examined firsthand before slapping down cash. At some point you have to just trust that the seller is not trying to scam people. I think a burden of the responsibility should be on the seller to honestly and fairly represent what they are offering. A buyer should not have to play 20 questions with sellers.
I'd still like to know how NOT mentioning a known crease is not deceptive. Scans don't always show these thnigs and you know the seller was aware of this, which is porobably also why he brightened the scan..as a cover up.
Like I said, I know I am not going to change anybody's mind who doesn't want to change, but that seller goes on my ever growing list of "avoid" sellers.
Football collector 1948-1995, Rams oddball cards & memorabilia, Diamond match. Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variationsUpdated 2/13/05
<< <i>Buying online is NOT like buying at shows or shops where cards can be examined firsthand before slapping down cash. At some point you have to just trust that the seller is not trying to scam people. I think a burden of the responsibility should be on the seller to honestly and fairly represent what they are offering. A buyer should not have to play 20 questions with sellers. >>
This PISSES the H E double HOCKEY STICK out of me......
Yeah i think thats my point here.....REGARDLESS of what actually happened here....I think the seller stinks to HIGH heaven....There is something inherently WRONG with what happened here.....Now if I may have offended anyone by saying if you truly believe this was OK to do on ebay....be it to a board member or not....that I dont trust you...I DONT APOLOGIZE....and that goes for you too deucy. Society wants everyone to be true and truthful and JUST from the Doctors and the Lawyers to your dag on Plummer...IF this is ok then i suppose its ok for a doctor to cut the concentration of chemo drugs in his treatments so he can treat more treatments with the same original amount and pull a GRRRRRREat profit....Oh that aint related to this huh????....ITS THE PRINCIPLE....and someday there just might be a truthless SOB who gets his profit on YOU!!!!!!!!!....and dont YOU..... go pointing any fingers.
Does it bother anyone else here that the seller ENDED the auction early? By doing so he forced the buyer into the contract. I believe 30hrs was left when this happened. The bidder could have retracted his bid within that timeframe. ALSO the bidding history leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth.
Steve
also............how did that card grade a 5 with a CREASE?
<< <i>Does it bother anyone else here that the seller ENDED the auction early? By doing so he forced the buyer into the contract. I believe 30hrs was left when this happened. The bidder could have retracted his bid within that timeframe. ALSO the bidding history leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth.
Steve >>
H E L L yes it does....and I see this as PROOF that he KNEW he was getting the goods on a poor individual and due to some GRACE of conscious.....decided he didnt want to get anymore over on someone....Thats my story and im sticking to it!!!
<< <i>I find it completely amazing that pretty much everyone thinks this sham seller is on the up and up. Let's see, for one thing he completely forgets to mention that the card has a crease, which he knows full well since he bought it from the original seller who did mention it. Tell me, how many peolpe here think it would have brought as much moneuy if the crease would have been mentioned? Then there is the obvoiusly "brightened" scan to make the card appear better than it actually is. Of course, then there is the attempt to convince you you are getting something more valuable than you really are by usuing flowery language like: "SUPERIOR in its condition and very high in book value. Four great corners, beautiful color, minimal surface wear for its age, great centering, and a beautiful back!"
Superior??? In otherwords infering it's nothing less than a HIGH GRADE card. The corners are anything but GREAT (Maybe for an EX 5), the color is great ......NOW, because the scan has been "brightened"., etc...
Each one of these statements, in my opinion, justifies the item to be returned or a full refund.
How about his? "Current High Book Value for this amazing card, according to PSA's Online Priceguide is a whopping $2,200"
Infering that it is worth $2200 because it is a HIGH GRADE card.
There are many types of deception. You can outright lie or you can just NOT tell everything.
And yes, yo ucan use the "ask sekller a question" button, but for one thing the seller doesn't have to respond or even tell the truth. I'me sure he would be forthcoming with the information that the card was creased and that it had been previously graded a 5 by PSA, if he was asked. Actually, I doubt it since that would probably cost him bids.
I've seen this sort of thing in the pst and I've seen sellers kicked off ebay for this exact thing. The problem here is that for some strange reason, no one thinks that withholding information about the condition of the card and "beautifying" the scan is wrong.
Oh yeah, it's also EXTREMELY wrong to quote PSA's SMR values for non-PSA graded cards. T hat, at the very least, is keyword spamming, and deceptive. >>
MY GOD CAN IT BE?? ANOTHER TRUE AND JUST PERSON IN THIS WORLD!!!! Well IM NOT ONE OF THESE NUMB N U T S....IM WITH YA ON ALL OF IT
<< <i>Nevermind. I'll leave it alone now. I learned along time ago that it's unlikely to change peoples opinion when you are in the minority, and so I move on. >>
Me too..IM DONE...I hope you all enjoy your damned unjust self centered sucker punching ying yang thank ya maam ways!!!!!!!!! IM SICK OF IT!!!!
"Congrats on being the winning bidder for the 1964 Topps Mickey Mantle card on Ebay auctions! I decided to end the auction early with you as the winner because I feel that the card has met the bidding amount I was hoping for and the price is high enough. You won the auction with a bid of $450.09 + $6 S&H = $456.09. If you would like to pay via PayPal, my verified account ID is: "
As a buyer, I would not feel obligated to complete this transaction. If I read this correctly, the seller ended the listing early -- on his own accord. In my mind that makes the transaction null and void and the high bidder at the time the seller ended the listing is in no way obligated to purchase the item. Also, by ending the item early the seller is skirting the eBay fees involved in the sale of the card. This would be a seller I would avoid on those grounds alone.
As to where he gets his cards to resell ... that is his perrogative. But sellers who practice the above will be marked in my book as untrustworhty and won't be getting my business.
Just my two cents.
Looking for a Glen Rice Inkredible and Alex Rodriguez cards
<< <i> As a buyer, I would not feel obligated to complete this transaction. If I read this correctly, the seller ended the listing early -- on his own accord. In my mind that makes the transaction null and void and the high bidder at the time the seller ended the listing is in no way obligated to purchase the item. Also, by ending the item early the seller is skirting the eBay fees involved in the sale of the card. This would be a seller I would avoid on those grounds alone. >>
HUH?! He didn't offer to sell it off eBay, he used eBay's feature to end the auction early to sell to the high bidder -
<< <i>The seller ended this listing early to sell to the high bidder(s) at current bid price. >>
What bothers me about the practice is that the card was already graded a PSA 5. The seller knew this. A buyer would rather know that the card was graded a PSA 5 rather than getting a description of the card that leaves open the possibility that the card is a 7, 3, 5, or whatever. The only reason to crack out the card is to prey on the buyer who either: (1) is sophisticated and thinks that the seller isn't and that the buyer will get the card graded and turn a profit; or (2) is a newbie and doesn't know better. In the first case, the sophisticated buyer will probably look at the history of the seller and notice the pattern of buying graded and selling raw. That leaves the only target as the newbie. Unfortunately, rather than having a good hobby experience, the newbie gets taken and gets out of the hobby. Then people complain about the market being soft.
As a hobbyist, I would not want to do business with the seller. I would hope that other collectors would feel the same. In the long run, this type of "sharp practice" is bad for the hobby and ultimately bad for all collectors.
John
Mainly collecting 1956-1980 Topps Football, 1960-1963 Fleer Football, 1964-1967 Philadelphia Football, 1957-1980 Topps Hockey, 1968-1980 O-Pee-Chee Hockey, and 1976 Topps Basketball. Looking for PSA 9 NQ (or higher) in 1972-1980, and PSA 8 NQ or higher for pre-1972.
<< <i>What bothers me about the practice is that the card was already graded a PSA 5. The seller knew this. A buyer would rather know that the card was graded a PSA 5 rather than getting a description of the card that leaves open the possibility that the card is a 7, 3, 5, or whatever. The only reason to crack out the card is to prey on the buyer who either: (1) is sophisticated and thinks that the seller isn't and that the buyer will get the card graded and turn a profit; or (2) is a newbie and doesn't know better. In the first case, the sophisticated buyer will probably look at the history of the seller and notice the pattern of buying graded and selling raw. That leaves the only target as the newbie. Unfortunately, rather than having a good hobby experience, the newbie gets taken and gets out of the hobby. Then people complain about the market being soft.
As a hobbyist, I would not want to do business with the seller. I would hope that other collectors would feel the same. In the long run, this type of "sharp practice" is bad for the hobby and ultimately bad for all collectors.
John >>
I LIED...IM BACK....GOD BLESS YOU JOHN....OK NOW IM GONE
As to where he gets his cards to resell ... that is his perrogative. But sellers who practice the above will be marked in my book as untrustworhty and won't be getting my business.
Just my two cents. >>
IF THAT AINT A STATEMENT ABOUT TRUTH, JUSTICE, AND THE AMERICAN WAY I DONT KNOW WHAT IS!!!! You can go to Singapore (or however its spelled) and lose your wallet and be called a DUMN AMERICAN....BUT NOT IN OUR BACKYARD GENTLEMEN.... NOT WITHOUT A DAMNED FIGHT!!!!!
I just cant believe the seller did this so damn obvious! At least use a diffrent buying and selling name like I do,,.... ugh wait, j/k Another scammer like the PRO, GEM, x-mas rack pack sellers, grandfather's collection, attic/construction find dummies. Now if I bought a card raw for low beckett and it graded a 10 and I sold it for 100x SMR then would I be decietful for buying the card so low? I would have cracked the case and said ex ex+ card, but no need to say it was in a PSA holder as a 5. BELIVE IT OR NO SOME RAW BUYER AREN'T gONNA GET THEIR CARDS GRADED! If you thought it would grade an 8 and bought it at SMR for a 5, when you recieve the card return it nto as descibed. WHY ARE WE STILL DISCUSSING THIS....I DON"TKNOW. BUy the card not the grade, make sure when you get the cad it does have any wrinkles. I have bought many 1955 MINT cards that had a microscopic wrinkle and came back a worthless 5, MY FAULT!!! So should I send the to GAI, hope the miss it, and get a 7 and say PReviously a PSA 5????
What I find most disturbing about all of this is why is this seller be so unjustly persecuted in this thread?
Show me where he said 'it will come back a 9!' or anything that was untrue or misleading? Also, where does it state that every seller must divulge the history of EVERY card they put up for auction?
I applaud the seller for being a savvy card buyer...for knowing that there are people out there who'd prefer a raw card to a graded one, and thus capitalized on this.
Let me ask any one of you who say the buyer would be justified in not paying for the card - how would you feel if you were the seller, and you have a buyer back out of an auction because of buyer's remorse?
Keep thinking...
That's what I thought...you'd be livid. You did EVERYTHING you could through means available to show the condition of the card; you gave full disclosure that you know it's authentic and would come back gradeable (how many raw card dealers offer that?), and if asked, surely would have provided additional scans. Through all that, you have a seller who gets cold feet and backs out?
Come on now! Be honest...if any one of you had been in his shoes, you'd be on here ranting about deadbeat bidders and how sick and tired you are of people not honoring their bids!
2deuce's Scarface icon reminds me of my second favorite line from the movie, which is fitting here -
"Never underestimate.....the other guy's greed!"
We seem to have two people whose desire to make a profit, or get a good bargain have met. Both seem to have some fault in the matter and the "fates" have now seen fit to screw them both in the deal.
The seller surely should disclose the prior history of the card, seeing that he spent the time to buy it and crack it out of the holder. This guy makes a living doing this, he is not a collector who has a card that did not grade out as he wished. Every transaction is a sham.
The buyer obviously is looking for a bargain and has been shown several times now that it does not work. Continue buying the raw "found in my neighbor's backyard, boy how did it last this many years" deal, and you will surely go broke. Take the advice of those here who do not care to see you waste your money, and you will wind up with a few nice cards.
<< <i> I applaud the seller for being a savvy card buyer...for knowing that there are people out there who'd prefer a raw card to a graded one, and thus capitalized on this. >>
Spoken like a true seattle liberal.... and just how SAVVY was that doctor who made a crapload of money off cutting corners with his chemo treatments....pretty savvy no???
ok ok ok ok okok ok the title of this thread Ebay Scam? Answer NO! Reselling 5's as ungraded= BAD BOY! We figured it out and are stayng a mile away from your auctions.
---------------------------------------------------------------------END OF THREAD-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<< <i> Spoken like a true seattle liberal.... and just how SAVVY was that doctor who made a crapload of money off cutting corners with his chemo treatments....pretty savvy no??? >>
Woah woah woah...comparing sportscards to medical practicing is WAY off base and uncalled for.
And now name calling? 'a true seattle liberal'? Isn't it the republicans who are all about making money and greed and all that garbage?
If businesses don't make money they go out of business...plain and simple. Just because it's sportscards (our hobby) doesn't mean these guys should do it for fun and not make a profit.
What I see here is a guy who buys cards that are worth more raw than graded, cracks them out, sells them raw. Why is no responisibility being passed on to the buyer here? The guy who asked for advice, was given sound advice, then ignored it all in search of a payday (or at least a bargain)?
<< <i>Woah woah woah...comparing sportscards to medical practicing is WAY off base and uncalled for. >>
hahaha...This was aleady answered in my previous post...if you had read it...AND ITS ABOUT THE PRINCIPLE .....ONCE A CROOK ALWAYS A CROOK....PEROID....NO MATTER THE TOPIC...and I think I have the education to allow me to talk about those sort of things.....hmmmmm.....wonder why I used that example about a doctor??? HMMMMMMMMM
<< <i>And now name calling? 'a true seattle liberal'? Isn't it the republicans who are all about making money and greed and all that garbage? >>
Any business needs to make a profit to survive. If you can buy cards for $10 and sell them for $15, you have made a profit and your business will probable survive depending on your overhead.
WHO CARES where you buy the cards for $10? If the market says its worth $15, then this seller is making some money. If your want to buy it for $15 and hope to sell for $20.... good luck, it may happen, it may not.
I fault nobody in this transaction. If the buyer decides not to pay, then shame on him for bidding in the first place. He should buy the card and re-sell if he is not happy or at least allow the seller the opportunity to offer a refund.
This buyer is trying to buy low and sell high and has not learned from his mistakes yet. Maybe this will do it for him.
I have many raw pre 1960 sets and would love to buy some of these PSA 5 cards and break them out for my sets, they look great in raw sets. If nothing else, this thread may have provided me with a new way to improve on some of my "raw" sets for a bit less money than buying ebay "NrMt raw" cards that are actually PSA 5 or 6 quality.
I believe this seller has some very good business sense to him and has come up with a very legit way of making a few bucks while providing some nice raw cards for other collectors. If we did not know that these cards had once been in a PSA 5 holder, would we even have had this thread? Sounds like every raw, nice looking card on ebay!
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
<< <i> ONCE A CROOK ALWAYS A CROOK....PEROID....NO MATTER THE TOPIC >>
Why do you feel he's a crook? Because he didn't disclose where he got the card?
When you buy raw cards from a dealer, do you expect a detailed story of where they acquired every one?
It's hillarious that you feel the buyer has no culpability in this matter...that you feel that just because the seller made a nice profit, that he should somehow be strung up for being profitable. I think there might be a bit of jealousy that is running through this thread that they didn't have the business know-how and savvy to make money this way, that there is a bit of envy that this dealer is smart enough (yes, smart enough) to buy mid-grade cards and know they are worth more out of the holder.
Tell me Lothar, why doesn't the seller have ANY responsibility to finish this transaction? If it's the quality of the card, why didn't the buyer ask for more scans prior to bidding/buying? I think you should just come out and say you hate the seller because he has the business sense to make money in an honest and ingenious way.
You call him a crook; myself an others are sure to call it great business sense.
Im done axtel.....you can read the posts tonight and find out the answers to your questions..... nobody has to honor a shammer....Im glad that you would though....your the kind of guy i think needs to be taken a few more times to get it in your THICK SKULL that the only way to deter scams is to make sure THEY DONT WORK.
"I CALL IT GREAT BUSINESS SENSE"
anybody..anybody out there want to offer axtell some great business sense sort of deals??? He is really up on these sort of things and wants your creased cracked psa 5's for SMR 9 prices.....HE JUST LOVES THE COMPLETION OF SCAMS!!!
Despite the recent "political" slant this thread has taken, this has been one of the better discussions in the last few months. I don't feel this seller has done anything wrong. He's a smart dealer who is making money by flipping cards. I respect some of the opinions in the "other" camp and can see why they feel the dealer is shady. But the buyer makes me say He buys cards looking to get them graded. Is savvy enough to start checking the sellers buying history and selling history. Bids on multiple auctions from this "dishonest" seller. Discovers the seller has cracked out graded cards and sold them raw for higher prices. The buyer even admits that one card he bought and graded came back a PSA 6, when it was previously a 5. Than comes onto this board claimimg to have been ripped off and misled? The seller may be shady, but I don't think our buyer is as naive as he claims to be. If the cards he bought came back as 7's or 8's, (as he hoped) I bet this thread would have a different tone. Bottom line, we are responsible for our actions and our bids. Do research, compare prices and bid wisely.
Yeah im out...good discussion by all....we really tore it up there tonight baby!!!!!! I do see fabrinks point about the "buyer".....i had not thought of it like that before....without PROMOTING the seller he did indeed point out the buyer's faults in this situation.
I still believe my points on the seller as a scammer who MAY not have his auctions honored on principle that they were misleading....but also believe that the buyer needs to do more research before buying raw.....OR NOT BUY RAW. Point taken Fabrank.....
The seller ending the auction EARLY certain I believe torches his credability. And obviously everything does not add up in his auction.
<< <i>Im done axtel.....you can read the posts tonight and find out the answers to your questions..... nobody has to honor a shammer....Im glad that you would though....your the kind of guy i think needs to be taken a few more times to get it in your THICK SKULL that the only way to deter scams is to make sure THEY DONT WORK.
"I CALL IT GREAT BUSINESS SENSE"
anybody..anybody out there want to offer axtell some great business sense sort of deals??? He is really up on these sort of things and wants your creased cracked psa 5's for SMR 9 prices.....HE JUST LOVES THE COMPLETION OF SCAMS!!!
Lothar (has left the building) >>
Lothar-
Who made the buyer buy this card essentially sight unseen, even after advice was given to him not to buy these types of cards? Who held the gun to his head and said 'bid $400+ on this card!'
The buyer thought he was getting over on the seller, and that's why he pulled the trigger on the card. Plain and simple. There is no other way to describe it.
This isn't a scam! Why do you insist on calling it that? He clearly states the card is authentic (again, how many raw dealers do that?), shows a clear scan, and last I heard, it's the buyer's choice to buy or not.
If I was going to pay $400 for a raw card (I wouldn't) I sure as hell would have crystal clear scans of the card, and communicated my concerns with the seller. If he didn't answer in a way that I felt was satisfactory, then I wouldn't have bought it.
<< <i>I don't think our buyer is as naive as he claims to be. If the cards he bought came back as 7's or 8's, (as he hoped) I bet this thread would have a different tone. Bottom line, we are responsible for our actions and our bids. Do research, compare prices and bid wisely. >>
You couldn't be more right. The buyer was thinking he was getting over on a buyer...and thinking the card was going to come back a 7 or 8.
<< <i>AXTELL...GIVE IT UP....ITS A SCAM TO MAKE MONEY...BY MY DEFINITION ....AND THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH... FOR ME........GIVE IT UP!!!!!!
IM GLAD YOU DONT SEE IT AS SCAM!!! GOOD FOR YOU!!!!
>>
Thought you were out?
So any business that makes money is a scam? A smart businessman buys low and sells high...I'm sure you knew that?
It would be different if the card that the seller sent was different than what was in the photo, or was somehow misrepresented. But the fact remains that the seller disclosed the information about the card, the condition, guaranteed it was authentic...now you want to know how much he paid for it too?
When you go to buy a TV, do you demand to know how much the store paid for it?
Im going to give you some advice axtell....and this is free.....OPINIONS ARE LIKE A-HOLES.....EVERYBODY HAS GOT ONE..... I say the whole thing was a scam to sucker someone into buying cards they thought were going to be better then advertised....you say the real scammer is the buyer who is trying to get something over on a poor seller who doesnt know what he is selling....
thats FINE...we both have our opinions....
YOU NOT DROPPING THIS AND RESPECTING MY OPINION AT THIS POINT IS UNREASONABLE.....PEOPLE ARE NOT ALWAYS GOING TO AGREE WITH YOU OK??? OK MR. LAST POST???? GO AHEAD...YOU POST IT...HAVE A GOOD ONE....
<< <i>I don't think our buyer is as naive as he claims to be. >>
I'm not sure about that. I think anyone who pays $1100 for an Aaron rookie in a PRO 7.5 holder when the same money would have got him a PSA 7 is still feeling his way blindly around the marketplace. He's trying some wheeler-dealer moves, but he's still in the naive stage of "I can beat the system," and repeatedly getting creamed by those who take advantage of people like him.
I know 1bbnerd is reading this, so ... I hope you slow down, take a breath, and work on building a nice collection around one or two themes, or half a dozen as the case may be. Learn the ropes while you play it safe and learn from the discussions, instead of stepping on every landmine and being the victim in those discussions. The bad boys luvvvvvvv collectors like you, buying the way you do. Don't be a scam-magnet!
<< <i>Does it bother anyone else here that the seller ENDED the auction early? By doing so he forced the buyer into the contract. >>
no offense Steve, but actually, regardless of whether or not the seller is a scumbag, the BIDDER voluntarily entered into a contract by clicking on the button that said "Submit Bid".. he wasn't forced into anything.. this reinforces the point: DON'T BID IF YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY YOUR BID PRICE..
YES, the term "buyer beware" comes into affect at all times.
But that has nothing to do with shady business practices of the seller an dit doesn't mean the seller can use unsavory business practices, just because he can get away with it.
YES, businesses would like to turn a profit at all times.
But at the expense of losing return business and preying on others who may not be as savvy?
And still I haven't seen a rational response as to why the seller neglected to mention known damage (crease). I notice he states "no creases or wrinkles" on one of his Mantle auctions, so why didn't he state it in the Paige auction? Because he knew it wouldf adversely affect the final price of the card. DECEPTIVE!
All I keep seeing is........."it's all about the profit margin".
Should sellers disclose the entire history of each card?
I think that would be entirely foolish to expect.............especially if it is going to affect the "bottom line".
I've never had to end an auction early for any reason, but I always thought you had to cancel all bids in order to end it?!
This hobby is in dire need of a makeover!
Football collector 1948-1995, Rams oddball cards & memorabilia, Diamond match. Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variationsUpdated 2/13/05
Comments
There's a different issue if this seller is misrepresenting the cards, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
The funny thing is that if we was just a little slicker and had seperate buying and selling IDs, no one would have every known!
We should all just collect comics.
<< <i>
We should all just collect comics. >>
I know this is OT, but I don't understand graded comics. With coins, stamps and cards you can still see and enjoy the entire item. Comics get locked in a plastic prison never to be read again. How disappointing is that?
This reminds me of the people who sue fast-food restaurants for making them fat. Who told them to eat 5 burgers a sitting? When are people going to take responsibility for their actions (such as bidding on cards on Ebay)?
If the guy can buy a car for x amount and sell it for double that, why are we criticizing it? He's a smart business man...isn't that what businesses do, make money?
This is one of the few quotes in this thread that makes sense.
I know this is OT, but I don't understand graded comics. With coins, stamps and cards you can still see and enjoy the entire item. Comics get locked in a plastic prison never to be read again. How disappointing is that?
ajw- check out the comics board on SGC's site. There are numerous threads about this subject that make for good reading.
<< <i>
<< <i>
We should all just collect comics. >>
I know this is OT, but I don't understand graded comics. With coins, stamps and cards you can still see and enjoy the entire item. Comics get locked in a plastic prison never to be read again. How disappointing is that? >>
ajw - I have a buddy who collects Mad Magazines; he's got a couple slabbed, but he always gets a lesser graded raw one for reading purposes.
This isn't as far OT as you might think - I've always enjoyed the sensory part of card collecting. The touch and feel of a crisp new card or stack of cards is something you can't experience when the card is slabbed.
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
<< <i>The seller is full of it. And most people know that people overgrade their cards on ebay, so why is it a shock to anyone when someone makes money flipping? The seller description is the usual BS, but he never claims the card is NRMT or MINT or whatever, he gives a lame ass description and then lets you THINK the cards is a PSA 9. I like his disclaimer that he doesn't guarantee what grade the card will comeback, especially since he knows it's a PSA 5 or so.
We should all just collect comics. >>
How is he full of BS? By your own admission, 'he never claims the card is NRMT or MINT'.
No one made the buyer buy this card.
Then there is the obvoiusly "brightened" scan to make the card appear better than it actually is. Of course, then there is the attempt to convince you you are getting something more valuable than you really are by usuing flowery language like:
"SUPERIOR in its condition and very high in book value. Four great corners, beautiful color, minimal surface wear for its age, great centering, and a beautiful back!"
Superior??? In otherwords infering it's nothing less than a HIGH GRADE card. The corners are anything but GREAT (Maybe for an EX 5), the color is great ......NOW, because the scan has been "brightened"., etc...
Each one of these statements, in my opinion, justifies the item to be returned or a full refund.
How about his?
"Current High Book Value for this amazing card, according to PSA's Online Priceguide is a whopping $2,200"
Infering that it is worth $2200 because it is a HIGH GRADE card.
There are many types of deception. You can outright lie or you can just NOT tell everything.
And yes, yo ucan use the "ask sekller a question" button, but for one thing the seller doesn't have to respond or even tell the truth. I'me sure he would be forthcoming with the information that the card was creased and that it had been previously graded a 5 by PSA, if he was asked. Actually, I doubt it since that would probably cost him bids.
I've seen this sort of thing in the pst and I've seen sellers kicked off ebay for this exact thing. The problem here is that for some strange reason, no one thinks that withholding information about the condition of the card and "beautifying" the scan is wrong.
Oh yeah, it's also EXTREMELY wrong to quote PSA's SMR values for non-PSA graded cards. That, at the very least, is keyword spamming, and deceptive.
Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variations Updated 2/13/05
Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variations Updated 2/13/05
I know full well that if I am going to buy a raw card, let alone one for $400, I sure as hell am going to have multiple scans both front and back, and then, and only then, will I make a decision.
At what point does the buyer take responsibility for this? So what if he bought a 5, cracked it open, and sold it raw?
It sounds to me like the buyer in this case thought he was going to get over on the seller, and pick up a potential high grade card for well under what it would sell for slabbed.
Then the buyer does some research (after he bid/bought? curious approach there), and finds out it's worthy of a 5. Just how exactly is the seller in the wrong here?
I am not trying to belittle the buyer (it sucks when you make a buying mistake), but to then bail out because you overbid on an item, or because you suddenly don't think the item is worth that much is much worse than what the seller did in this case.
<< <i> You should be more careful who you label untrust worthy. Didnt say I was for it, I say I'm against not paying for it. >>
You taking offense to me stating I dont trust you deucey.....???? Why what you going to do about it brother???
<< <i> Posted by loose 2dueces: You should be more careful who you label untrust worthy. Didnt say I was for it, I say I'm against not paying for it. >>
>>
But, when a seller starts using questionable tactics, descriptions and scans to influence potential buyers.....
I agree though, a buyer should question sellers if things are not clear to them. I do it all the time. But, I know asking a seller if a particular card had been previously graded would not be a question that would even cross my mind.
Buying online is NOT like buying at shows or shops where cards can be examined firsthand before slapping down cash. At some point you have to just trust that the seller is not trying to scam people. I think a burden of the responsibility should be on the seller to honestly and fairly represent what they are offering. A buyer should not have to play 20 questions with sellers.
I'd still like to know how NOT mentioning a known crease is not deceptive. Scans don't always show these thnigs and you know the seller was aware of this, which is porobably also why he brightened the scan..as a cover up.
Like I said, I know I am not going to change anybody's mind who doesn't want to change, but that seller goes on my ever growing list of "avoid" sellers.
Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variations Updated 2/13/05
<< <i>Buying online is NOT like buying at shows or shops where cards can be examined firsthand before slapping down cash. At some point you have to just trust that the seller is not trying to scam people. I think a burden of the responsibility should be on the seller to honestly and fairly represent what they are offering. A buyer should not have to play 20 questions with sellers. >>
This PISSES the H E double HOCKEY STICK out of me......
Yeah i think thats my point here.....REGARDLESS of what actually happened here....I think the seller stinks to HIGH heaven....There is something inherently WRONG with what happened here.....Now if I may have offended anyone by saying if you truly believe this was OK to do on ebay....be it to a board member or not....that I dont trust you...I DONT APOLOGIZE....and that goes for you too deucy. Society wants everyone to be true and truthful and JUST from the Doctors and the Lawyers to your dag on Plummer...IF this is ok then i suppose its ok for a doctor to cut the concentration of chemo drugs in his treatments so he can treat more treatments with the same original amount and pull a GRRRRRREat profit....Oh that aint related to this huh????....ITS THE PRINCIPLE....and someday there just might be a truthless SOB who gets his profit on YOU!!!!!!!!!....and dont YOU..... go pointing any fingers.
Steve
also............how did that card grade a 5 with a CREASE?
<< <i>Does it bother anyone else here that the seller ENDED the auction early? By doing so he forced the buyer into the contract. I believe 30hrs was left when this happened. The bidder could have retracted his bid within that timeframe. ALSO the bidding history leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth.
Steve >>
H E L L yes it does....and I see this as PROOF that he KNEW he was getting the goods on a poor individual and due to some GRACE of conscious.....decided he didnt want to get anymore over on someone....Thats my story and im sticking to it!!!
Loth
Steve
<< <i>I find it completely amazing that pretty much everyone thinks this sham seller is on the up and up. Let's see, for one thing he completely forgets to mention that the card has a crease, which he knows full well since he bought it from the original seller who did mention it. Tell me, how many peolpe here think it would have brought as much moneuy if the crease would have been mentioned?
Then there is the obvoiusly "brightened" scan to make the card appear better than it actually is. Of course, then there is the attempt to convince you you are getting something more valuable than you really are by usuing flowery language like:
"SUPERIOR in its condition and very high in book value. Four great corners, beautiful color, minimal surface wear for its age, great centering, and a beautiful back!"
Superior??? In otherwords infering it's nothing less than a HIGH GRADE card. The corners are anything but GREAT (Maybe for an EX 5), the color is great ......NOW, because the scan has been "brightened"., etc...
Each one of these statements, in my opinion, justifies the item to be returned or a full refund.
How about his?
"Current High Book Value for this amazing card, according to PSA's Online Priceguide is a whopping $2,200"
Infering that it is worth $2200 because it is a HIGH GRADE card.
There are many types of deception. You can outright lie or you can just NOT tell everything.
And yes, yo ucan use the "ask sekller a question" button, but for one thing the seller doesn't have to respond or even tell the truth. I'me sure he would be forthcoming with the information that the card was creased and that it had been previously graded a 5 by PSA, if he was asked. Actually, I doubt it since that would probably cost him bids.
I've seen this sort of thing in the pst and I've seen sellers kicked off ebay for this exact thing. The problem here is that for some strange reason, no one thinks that withholding information about the condition of the card and "beautifying" the scan is wrong.
Oh yeah, it's also EXTREMELY wrong to quote PSA's SMR values for non-PSA graded cards. T
hat, at the very least, is keyword spamming, and deceptive. >>
MY GOD CAN IT BE?? ANOTHER TRUE AND JUST PERSON IN THIS WORLD!!!! Well IM NOT ONE OF THESE NUMB N U T S....IM WITH YA ON ALL OF IT
<< <i>Nevermind. I'll leave it alone now. I learned along time ago that it's unlikely to change peoples opinion when you are in the minority, and so I move on. >>
Me too..IM DONE...I hope you all enjoy your damned unjust self centered sucker punching ying yang thank ya maam ways!!!!!!!!! IM SICK OF IT!!!!
card on Ebay auctions! I decided to end the auction early with you as
the winner because I feel that the card has met the bidding amount I was
hoping for and the price is high enough. You won the auction with a
bid of $450.09 + $6 S&H = $456.09. If you would like to pay via PayPal,
my verified account ID is: "
As a buyer, I would not feel obligated to complete this transaction. If I read this correctly, the seller ended the listing early -- on his own accord. In my mind that makes the transaction null and void and the high bidder at the time the seller ended the listing is in no way obligated to purchase the item. Also, by ending the item early the seller is skirting the eBay fees involved in the sale of the card. This would be a seller I would avoid on those grounds alone.
As to where he gets his cards to resell ... that is his perrogative. But sellers who practice the above will be marked in my book as untrustworhty and won't be getting my business.
Just my two cents.
<< <i> As a buyer, I would not feel obligated to complete this transaction. If I read this correctly, the seller ended the listing early -- on his own accord. In my mind that makes the transaction null and void and the high bidder at the time the seller ended the listing is in no way obligated to purchase the item. Also, by ending the item early the seller is skirting the eBay fees involved in the sale of the card. This would be a seller I would avoid on those grounds alone. >>
HUH?! He didn't offer to sell it off eBay, he used eBay's feature to end the auction early to sell to the high bidder -
<< <i>The seller ended this listing early to sell to the high bidder(s) at current bid price. >>
Brian
As a hobbyist, I would not want to do business with the seller. I would hope that other collectors would feel the same. In the long run, this type of "sharp practice" is bad for the hobby and ultimately bad for all collectors.
John
<< <i>What bothers me about the practice is that the card was already graded a PSA 5. The seller knew this. A buyer would rather know that the card was graded a PSA 5 rather than getting a description of the card that leaves open the possibility that the card is a 7, 3, 5, or whatever. The only reason to crack out the card is to prey on the buyer who either: (1) is sophisticated and thinks that the seller isn't and that the buyer will get the card graded and turn a profit; or (2) is a newbie and doesn't know better. In the first case, the sophisticated buyer will probably look at the history of the seller and notice the pattern of buying graded and selling raw. That leaves the only target as the newbie. Unfortunately, rather than having a good hobby experience, the newbie gets taken and gets out of the hobby. Then people complain about the market being soft.
As a hobbyist, I would not want to do business with the seller. I would hope that other collectors would feel the same. In the long run, this type of "sharp practice" is bad for the hobby and ultimately bad for all collectors.
John >>
I LIED...IM BACK....GOD BLESS YOU JOHN....OK NOW IM GONE
<< <i>
As to where he gets his cards to resell ... that is his perrogative. But sellers who practice the above will be marked in my book as untrustworhty and won't be getting my business.
Just my two cents. >>
IF THAT AINT A STATEMENT ABOUT TRUTH, JUSTICE, AND THE AMERICAN WAY I DONT KNOW WHAT IS!!!! You can go to Singapore (or however its spelled) and lose your wallet and be called a DUMN AMERICAN....BUT NOT IN OUR BACKYARD GENTLEMEN.... NOT WITHOUT A DAMNED FIGHT!!!!!
Show me where he said 'it will come back a 9!' or anything that was untrue or misleading? Also, where does it state that every seller must divulge the history of EVERY card they put up for auction?
I applaud the seller for being a savvy card buyer...for knowing that there are people out there who'd prefer a raw card to a graded one, and thus capitalized on this.
Let me ask any one of you who say the buyer would be justified in not paying for the card - how would you feel if you were the seller, and you have a buyer back out of an auction because of buyer's remorse?
Keep thinking...
That's what I thought...you'd be livid. You did EVERYTHING you could through means available to show the condition of the card; you gave full disclosure that you know it's authentic and would come back gradeable (how many raw card dealers offer that?), and if asked, surely would have provided additional scans. Through all that, you have a seller who gets cold feet and backs out?
Come on now! Be honest...if any one of you had been in his shoes, you'd be on here ranting about deadbeat bidders and how sick and tired you are of people not honoring their bids!
2deuce's Scarface icon reminds me of my second favorite line from the movie, which is fitting here -
"Never underestimate.....the other guy's greed!"
We seem to have two people whose desire to make a profit, or get a good bargain have met. Both seem to have some fault in the matter and the "fates" have now seen fit to screw them both in the deal.
The seller surely should disclose the prior history of the card, seeing that he spent the time to buy it and crack it out of the holder. This guy makes a living doing this, he is not a collector who has a card that did not grade out as he wished. Every transaction is a sham.
The buyer obviously is looking for a bargain and has been shown several times now that it does not work. Continue buying the raw "found in my neighbor's backyard, boy how did it last this many years" deal, and you will surely go broke. Take the advice of those here who do not care to see you waste your money, and you will wind up with a few nice cards.
Yes, the "fates" surely put these two together.
Keith
<< <i> I applaud the seller for being a savvy card buyer...for knowing that there are people out there who'd prefer a raw card to a graded one, and thus capitalized on this. >>
Spoken like a true seattle liberal.... and just how SAVVY was that doctor who made a crapload of money off cutting corners with his chemo treatments....pretty savvy no???
Ebay Scam? Answer NO!
Reselling 5's as ungraded= BAD BOY! We figured it out and are stayng a mile away from your auctions.
---------------------------------------------------------------------END OF THREAD-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CAREFUL The next post-ers are idiots
<< <i>
Spoken like a true seattle liberal.... and just how SAVVY was that doctor who made a crapload of money off cutting corners with his chemo treatments....pretty savvy no??? >>
Woah woah woah...comparing sportscards to medical practicing is WAY off base and uncalled for.
And now name calling? 'a true seattle liberal'? Isn't it the republicans who are all about making money and greed and all that garbage?
If businesses don't make money they go out of business...plain and simple. Just because it's sportscards (our hobby) doesn't mean these guys should do it for fun and not make a profit.
What I see here is a guy who buys cards that are worth more raw than graded, cracks them out, sells them raw. Why is no responisibility being passed on to the buyer here? The guy who asked for advice, was given sound advice, then ignored it all in search of a payday (or at least a bargain)?
end
of thre....
<< <i>Woah woah woah...comparing sportscards to medical practicing is WAY off base and uncalled for. >>
hahaha...This was aleady answered in my previous post...if you had read it...AND ITS ABOUT THE PRINCIPLE .....ONCE A CROOK ALWAYS A CROOK....PEROID....NO MATTER THE TOPIC...and I think I have the education to allow me to talk about those sort of things.....hmmmmm.....wonder why I used that example about a doctor??? HMMMMMMMMM
<< <i>And now name calling? 'a true seattle liberal'? Isn't it the republicans who are all about making money and greed and all that garbage? >>
Got ya.....CASE CLOSED
WHO CARES where you buy the cards for $10? If the market says its worth $15, then this seller is making some money. If your want to buy it for $15 and hope to sell for $20.... good luck, it may happen, it may not.
I fault nobody in this transaction. If the buyer decides not to pay, then shame on him for bidding in the first place. He should buy the card and re-sell if he is not happy or at least allow the seller the opportunity to offer a refund.
This buyer is trying to buy low and sell high and has not learned from his mistakes yet. Maybe this will do it for him.
I have many raw pre 1960 sets and would love to buy some of these PSA 5 cards and break them out for my sets, they look great in raw sets. If nothing else, this thread may have provided me with a new way to improve on some of my "raw" sets for a bit less money than buying ebay "NrMt raw" cards that are actually PSA 5 or 6 quality.
I believe this seller has some very good business sense to him and has come up with a very legit way of making a few bucks while providing some nice raw cards for other collectors. If we did not know that these cards had once been in a PSA 5 holder, would we even have had this thread? Sounds like every raw, nice looking card on ebay!
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
<< <i>
ONCE A CROOK ALWAYS A CROOK....PEROID....NO MATTER THE TOPIC >>
Why do you feel he's a crook? Because he didn't disclose where he got the card?
When you buy raw cards from a dealer, do you expect a detailed story of where they acquired every one?
It's hillarious that you feel the buyer has no culpability in this matter...that you feel that just because the seller made a nice profit, that he should somehow be strung up for being profitable. I think there might be a bit of jealousy that is running through this thread that they didn't have the business know-how and savvy to make money this way, that there is a bit of envy that this dealer is smart enough (yes, smart enough) to buy mid-grade cards and know they are worth more out of the holder.
Tell me Lothar, why doesn't the seller have ANY responsibility to finish this transaction? If it's the quality of the card, why didn't the buyer ask for more scans prior to bidding/buying? I think you should just come out and say you hate the seller because he has the business sense to make money in an honest and ingenious way.
You call him a crook; myself an others are sure to call it great business sense.
"I CALL IT GREAT BUSINESS SENSE"
anybody..anybody out there want to offer axtell some great business sense sort of deals??? He is really up on these sort of things and wants your creased cracked psa 5's for SMR 9 prices.....HE JUST LOVES THE COMPLETION OF SCAMS!!!
Lothar (has left the building)
But the buyer makes me say
He buys cards looking to get them graded. Is savvy enough to start checking the sellers buying history and selling history. Bids on multiple auctions from this "dishonest" seller. Discovers the seller has cracked out graded cards and sold them raw for higher prices. The buyer even admits that one card he bought and graded came back a PSA 6, when it was previously a 5. Than comes onto this board claimimg to have been ripped off and misled?
The seller may be shady, but I don't think our buyer is as naive as he claims to be.
If the cards he bought came back as 7's or 8's, (as he hoped) I bet this thread would have a different tone.
Bottom line, we are responsible for our actions and our bids. Do research, compare prices and bid wisely.
<< <i>.....HE JUST LOVES THE COMPLETION OF SCAMS!!!
Lothar (has left the building) >>
He loves it when a PLAN comes together!
Yeah im out...good discussion by all....we really tore it up there tonight baby!!!!!! I do see fabrinks point about the "buyer".....i had not thought of it like that before....without PROMOTING the seller he did indeed point out the buyer's faults in this situation.
I still believe my points on the seller as a scammer who MAY not have his auctions honored on principle that they were misleading....but also believe that the buyer needs to do more research before buying raw.....OR NOT BUY RAW. Point taken Fabrank.....
The seller ending the auction EARLY certain I believe torches his credability. And obviously everything does not add up in his auction.
<< <i>Im done axtel.....you can read the posts tonight and find out the answers to your questions..... nobody has to honor a shammer....Im glad that you would though....your the kind of guy i think needs to be taken a few more times to get it in your THICK SKULL that the only way to deter scams is to make sure THEY DONT WORK.
"I CALL IT GREAT BUSINESS SENSE"
anybody..anybody out there want to offer axtell some great business sense sort of deals??? He is really up on these sort of things and wants your creased cracked psa 5's for SMR 9 prices.....HE JUST LOVES THE COMPLETION OF SCAMS!!!
Lothar (has left the building) >>
Lothar-
Who made the buyer buy this card essentially sight unseen, even after advice was given to him not to buy these types of cards? Who held the gun to his head and said 'bid $400+ on this card!'
The buyer thought he was getting over on the seller, and that's why he pulled the trigger on the card. Plain and simple. There is no other way to describe it.
This isn't a scam! Why do you insist on calling it that? He clearly states the card is authentic (again, how many raw dealers do that?), shows a clear scan, and last I heard, it's the buyer's choice to buy or not.
If I was going to pay $400 for a raw card (I wouldn't) I sure as hell would have crystal clear scans of the card, and communicated my concerns with the seller. If he didn't answer in a way that I felt was satisfactory, then I wouldn't have bought it.
IM GLAD YOU DONT SEE IT AS SCAM!!! GOOD FOR YOU!!!!
<< <i>I don't think our buyer is as naive as he claims to be.
If the cards he bought came back as 7's or 8's, (as he hoped) I bet this thread would have a different tone.
Bottom line, we are responsible for our actions and our bids. Do research, compare prices and bid wisely. >>
You couldn't be more right. The buyer was thinking he was getting over on a buyer...and thinking the card was going to come back a 7 or 8.
<< <i>AXTELL...GIVE IT UP....ITS A SCAM TO MAKE MONEY...BY MY DEFINITION ....AND THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH... FOR ME........GIVE IT UP!!!!!!
IM GLAD YOU DONT SEE IT AS SCAM!!! GOOD FOR YOU!!!!
Thought you were out?
So any business that makes money is a scam? A smart businessman buys low and sells high...I'm sure you knew that?
It would be different if the card that the seller sent was different than what was in the photo, or was somehow misrepresented. But the fact remains that the seller disclosed the information about the card, the condition, guaranteed it was authentic...now you want to know how much he paid for it too?
When you go to buy a TV, do you demand to know how much the store paid for it?
I don't think you are being very reasonable
thats FINE...we both have our opinions....
YOU NOT DROPPING THIS AND RESPECTING MY OPINION AT THIS POINT IS UNREASONABLE.....PEOPLE ARE NOT ALWAYS GOING TO AGREE WITH YOU OK??? OK MR. LAST POST???? GO AHEAD...YOU POST IT...HAVE A GOOD ONE....
Tigers already won. Over .500 this late in the season for the first time since 1776 I think.
Is this the right post for this?
<< <i>I don't think our buyer is as naive as he claims to be. >>
I'm not sure about that. I think anyone who pays $1100 for an Aaron rookie in a PRO 7.5 holder when the same money would have got him a PSA 7 is still feeling his way blindly around the marketplace. He's trying some wheeler-dealer moves, but he's still in the naive stage of "I can beat the system," and repeatedly getting creamed by those who take advantage of people like him.
I know 1bbnerd is reading this, so ... I hope you slow down, take a breath, and work on building a nice collection around one or two themes, or half a dozen as the case may be. Learn the ropes while you play it safe and learn from the discussions, instead of stepping on every landmine and being the victim in those discussions. The bad boys luvvvvvvv collectors like you, buying the way you do. Don't be a scam-magnet!
<< <i>Does it bother anyone else here that the seller ENDED the auction early? By doing so he forced the buyer into the contract. >>
no offense Steve, but actually, regardless of whether or not the seller is a scumbag, the BIDDER voluntarily entered into a contract by clicking on the button that said "Submit Bid".. he wasn't forced into anything.. this reinforces the point: DON'T BID IF YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY YOUR BID PRICE..
But that has nothing to do with shady business practices of the seller an dit doesn't mean the seller can use unsavory business practices, just because he can get away with it.
YES, businesses would like to turn a profit at all times.
But at the expense of losing return business and preying on others who may not be as savvy?
And still I haven't seen a rational response as to why the seller neglected to mention known damage (crease).
I notice he states "no creases or wrinkles" on one of his Mantle auctions, so why didn't he state it in the Paige auction? Because he knew it wouldf adversely affect the final price of the card. DECEPTIVE!
All I keep seeing is........."it's all about the profit margin".
Should sellers disclose the entire history of each card?
I think that would be entirely foolish to expect.............especially if it is going to affect the "bottom line".
I've never had to end an auction early for any reason, but I always thought you had to cancel all bids in order to end it?!
This hobby is in dire need of a makeover!
Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variations Updated 2/13/05