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Curious....Why such glee when gold drops?

topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm curious to find out why some posters seem to find such glee in gold dropping.

The BULK of a ..local.. coin dealer's profit comes from regular bullion buyers and sellers which then gives him the operating funds to stock more rare coins.

MOST coin dealers have a set amount of ounces that they maintain. They may add if a significant drop occurs.

But generally speaking from my experience in the shop, the RARE coin market BENEFITS from more bullion activity. Which gives YOU as a collector a high element of liquidity when you wish to sell a coin.

I just don't get it when some wish for doleful metals which depress the mood of the dealers to the point that they don't feel like reaching very deep to buy a coin when business stinks.

Any enlightening comments?

Comments

  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    It's cheaper?
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • I think the idea that the BULK of a local dealers stock and profits is gold sales might be off. My local dealer does some gold but I don't think its more then 25% of his profits.

    Cameron Kiefer
  • Some probably think that if the price of gold drops, then they'll be able to get some good deals on gold coins. But if you're talking about anything other than bullion, it doesnt work like that.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Isn't gold a hedge against "bad times"?

    If gold is down, times must be good.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cameron......my 30 years in a shop say otherwise.

    A 300-400 oz gold deal is a stone $800-$1000 day.

  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,523 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think part of it is a response to some posters on the other side of the fence, who from reading their posts, think that gold is one up on the appearance of the Messiah.

    Personally, I don't like to see any gold posts, because to put money in gold is speculation. Most people who do this don't have a clue re the difference between investing and speculating. And, I hate to see basically good people lose their *** due to ignorance. I'm a CPA, and it's just like day trading. These people do hundreds of stock trades, and the only one who makes any money is the outfit that collects $X per trade.

    I can understand why a dealer stocks some bullion; it brings in foot traffic. However, a dealer who sells lots of bullion related coins typically doesn't carry much in the way of collector coins, so it's unlikely I'd do business with him.

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • I don't think folks are considering the effect on local shops. I think they are happy they guessed right and want to tell the others who said gold is going higher "I told you so".
  • DrWhoDrWho Posts: 562 ✭✭
    The faster it drops, the sooner I get back into buying Double Eagles. Gold is ALWAYS 'liquid', ALWAYS.
  • thebeavthebeav Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't think folks are considering the effect on local shops. I think they are happy they guessed right and want to tell the others who said gold is going higher "I told you so". >>



    I agree Carl....That's what it is....
    And Topstuff.......I hear you on the attitude and mood thing....26 years behind my counter. I
    try to buy a lot of scrap. It's easy and usually profitable. Unless gold is in the headlines, it doesn't come in.....

    Paul
  • pharmerpharmer Posts: 8,355
    Oil down, gold down-do you use oil?

    middle east stability, oil down, gold down

    isreali-palestinian peace, middle east stability, oil down, gold down

    democracy in middle east countries, stability, see above-see Bush doctrine

    Islam is fine, radical fundamentalist Islam's tenets will hurt you, cannot run countries-Bush doctrine

    There is very good news in and for the world today. Gold is down. Bad for you, but it's not personal

    Oil is down. Good for world.

    There will be a quiz later.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."

    image
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    "I'm curious to find out why some posters seem to find such glee in gold dropping."

    Two words, CHEAPER COINS!!!
  • Buyers => Cheaper gold

    Sellers => Expensive gold

    It's a matter of what you want to do.
    Mike Bottos
    coinpage.com
  • As a collector... you can buy more. image

    -g
    I listen to your voice like it was music, [ y o u ' r e ] the song I want to know.

    image

    I'd give you the world, just because...

    Speak to me of loved ones, favorite places and things, loves lost and gained, tears shed for joy and sorrow, of when I see the sparkle in your eye ...
    and the blackness when the dream dies, of lovers, fools, adventurers and kings while I sip my wine and contemplate the Chi.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The rare date gold market has (recently) moved in-step with the rare coin market.

    I like Baley's answer the best:

    Isn't gold a hedge against "bad times"?

    If gold is down, times must be good.


    image
  • As a collector of the metal itself and not neccesarily the coin it's made out of, seeing the price of gold go down makes me happy because it means I can add more of it to my collection.
    I collect the elements on the periodic table, and some coins. I have a complete Roosevelt set, and am putting together a set of coins from 1880.
  • clw54clw54 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭
    I'm in favor of gold and coin prices going down. That way I can buy more.
  • fishcookerfishcooker Posts: 3,446 ✭✭
    I'm curious to find out why some posters seem to find such glee in gold dropping.

    Perhaps the gold-bugs took showed too much glee at the recession.



    I just don't get it when some wish for doleful metals which depress the mood of the dealers to the point that they don't feel like reaching very deep to buy a coin when business stinks.

    Perhaps dealers with different business models will offer stronger money. Sam Walton did well where others did not because his model was different.

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What recession? I never heard the govt define a recession in the past 2 years (2003-2004?).

    The logic has always eluded me. To someone who collects mainly numismatic gold coins, it is foolish for them to wish that 90% of their current holdings goes down, so that they can add another 5-10% of new holdings at bargain prices to their collection. Net effect is a loss. No different logic than to wish that all your Morgans fall in value so you can buy a few new ones cheap?? I wish the same thing for my type coins every week.

    My local dealer has been able to stock up his store with many fine numismatic coins because of constant bullion purchases and sales over the past few years. As he says, the bullion pays for almost all of his overhead. It would be a bummer if that went away. I told him he is in a position to become a wealthy man and be able to retire in the next 10 years as the bullion markets eventually go exponential. It will be a busy time for him when it comes, and he'll be exhausted every day. But he'll be set for life once it's complete.

    Why such glee when gold drops? Because it only sets it up for the next wave up.

    roadrunner

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    When I was collector, I used really enjoy bear markets because it meant that there was a chance that I could own something that had been beyond my reach. If some of the coins I was holding went down, so what? I didn't want to see them; I only wanted more coins!
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Baley--Popcorn sales were skyrocketing until you depressed the market with logic! image

    Have a Great Day!
    Louis
  • PreTurbPreTurb Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭
    I think some people are envious of those who have the means to buy gold (or other nicer numismatic items) - and they lash out with negativity whenever they can stick one in. There are a few posters on the message boards that are consistently negative - and I usually see them posting in threads that discuss some drop in value.


  • << <i>I'm curious to find out why some posters seem to find such glee in gold dropping. >>



    it is a counter-irritant from those who promote gold as the next sure thing.

  • fishcookerfishcooker Posts: 3,446 ✭✭
    the bullion pays for almost all of his overhead.

    Gold's price makes no difference when he skims the Bid/Ask spread on every trade. A crash bringing panic sellers would hand him more profit than today.

    Surely you haven't forgotten the poor dealers who were forced to Buy gold well below spot once everybody figured out Y2k was a great big nothing. I guess they lost money and no longer stock good coins?

  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    "To someone who collects mainly numismatic gold coins, it is foolish for them to wish that 90% of their current holdings goes down, so that they can add another 5-10% of new holdings at bargain prices to their collection. Net effect is a loss. "

    No, not necessarily true. Kind of like buying a stock and averaging the purchases over time, you anticipate that over time your investment will appreciate and that you made a wise choice in your selection of investments. If you made a poor choice then you will lose anyway. No one buys only one thing for one time only, particularly coin collectors and coin dealers because they collect or accumulate assets over time.

    We collectors have suffered the recent spike in our gold coin prices. The dealers selling them probably bought these coins in the previous year at considerably cheaper prices and are enjoying the higher prices because of demand for gold anything. I have been to three shows in the last 6 months and seen larger dealers going to the smaller dealers and buying all their slabbed gold coins for resale because of the higher interest in gold because of the higher bullion prices and then charging all that the market will bear for their coins. Now, a lack of speculation in gold will bring the coin prices down because there is less demand.

    So, it's a game for coin people...when gold is up then the sell side is ahead but when gold is down then the buy side is favored. Over time, we all hope that things continue to appreciate and with gold, I'm sure that will be the case. So when the buy side opportunists or the sell side opportunists are ahead the other side is always moaning and groaning...and that's the way it is.
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The dealers selling them probably bought these coins in the previous year at considerably cheaper prices >>



    Dealers do NOT buy inventory for next year's prices. LOTS of people think that. Dealers (solvent, prudent ones) buy for TURNOVER. Customers always wondered why I was never unhappy to buy their gold for more than they paid me for it. Conversely, they were always amazed that I would continue to buy as the market fell OR rose.

    "I buy coins" every day....every market.....was my constant rejoinder.


    What people do not realize is that coin dealers are like any other business. They pay less than they sell stuff for. And they sell (and buy) every day. They just lay off any overage or buy back any shortage before they go home at night.

    Up or down markets do NOT harm dealers. Unless they are STUPID dealers.

    "Up" markets are BETTER for dealers as it brings more customers from publicity.

    That's the whole story.
  • CalGoldCalGold Posts: 2,608 ✭✭
    I can't speak for others but in the past soaring gold and silver prices have brough speculators into the coin market with the result that prices were driven up to unsustainable levels and then dropped like a stone. That is bad for collectors who are trying to build their collections. While it presents a selling opportunity, many collectors are not interested in trying to "market time" by selling off their collections in anticipation of being able to buy them back at lower prices after the market corrects.

    CG

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