<< <i>There will always be a rush when a new variety surfaces. The 1995 DD cent was indeed a rush, but then a couple bags were discovered. There are 20,000 examples certified! Even so it is still a $40 coin. It is a poor comparison because there is not even a hint of more than 1 -2000 of these quarters. I don't think the $200 sets on ebay are a risk at all (unless they have fingerprints). >>
Like the song says, "only time will tell."
I don't see you recollecting what some of the first 1995 DDO cent sold for, close to 4 digits I believe
<< <i>.....I'd like to say that the majority of Statehood Quarter collectors haven't heard of these varieties yet. ....I'd say half the Statehood collectors go to work 5-days a week, come home and spend their leisure time having nothing to do with coins whatsoever. Maybe a few times a year they visit the coin shops, dealers and flea markets in the area. They probably get coins sent to them from the mint or buy them off of EBay. I'd go so far to say that most Statehood Quarter collectors are mainly into collecting another type of coin and probably don't check anywhere for new varieties. So that leaves a lot of demand as yet unaccounted for! .........I can see the demand at least doubling after the rest of the Statehood Quarter collectors find out about this. >>
I'd expect minimal to no demand from the collectors you describe. Like my kids, many of these new collectors have a "fill the hole" approach to collecting: if there's a slot in the State Quarter album, they want to the coin to fill it.
However, I can't see publishers adding slots for these varieties because it upsets their nice 5-new-designs-per-year album layouts. Also, if they include these varieties, they'll have to think about including P and D mintmark slots and potential future varieties. Why incur the costs of album redesign etc. to accomodate the narrow market segment of informed variety collectors (versus the larger (ie. more profitable) target, the novice collector market?)) What will they do if something else is discovered, redesign their albums again? Easier for them to do nothing. And so, with their current quarter folders in-hand, novice collectors will likely plug in any old Wisconsin quarter, with nary a thought about seemingly obscure variations in the corn husk.
"A happy person is not a person in a certain set of circumstances, but rather a person with a certain set of attitudes"--Hugh Downs
<< <i>how many of these coins have just not come to light yet. To say they were all in one shipment seems to be jumping the gun. Say 1000-1700 pieces total work great for selling but how do you come to that number so early in the game. Why would a die only be used for such a short term? Kinda got me wondering if estimate are a marketing ploy rather than a firm belief. Just because in this shipment only this estimated number is being found, what about other shipments not yet checked. I'm sorry if I disagree but I find it hard to believe a die would just be used for such a short term. Maybe you can give me a reason. Just my two and half cents.
Smitty >>
Could it be that those who have a vested interest in the item going out of their way to hype or promote it....nah, that will never happen in numismatics
While demand is the greatest determinant of the price of a collectible there are times that availability will create demand. If there are enough of these quarters for lots of collectors to have one then there might be far more demand than if there are very few.
It's not only the quantity available that we'll have to wait to see, it is also the magnitude of the demand.
I liken this more to the 1955DDO Lincoln. There are no holes to fill (none that I have seen) in the books that are out.
But, it is still collected (heck, I am after one myself....I need one I like at a price I can afford).
I also bought a 1995DDO Lincoln. I wouldn't pay 4 figures for this (nor for the 1995DDO, but I sure am for the 1955DDO when I get it.
Now, will this be as extremely collected? Probably not for more than a few years. But, I think it is neat, and I blow more than what I am sending Rick for mine on a single night at the casino (and, many of you spend more than that on cigarettes over a month or two ).
So, whether it is hyping or not, many will get some. Will I be selling mine and making money right away like some? Nope.
Everyone has thoughts on these, like everything else, and there are always people who bash things. I can understand taking a nonchalant stance, but sometimes, it goes way past......
I, too, wonder how many there are. Why only in Tucson? Why both varities and only there? Doesn't sound like a "scratch" through a coin counting machine in the area. Maybe they were caught at the mint and discarded but a small batch made it out? Maybe there is a santa claus in numismatics afterall and the boring state quarters gets a gift?
As I posted earlier, my intent in posting information about this is to get the facts out there. No one knows better than me and the dealers in Tucson how many are out there. Now the old standard offer of $100 per set is passed over, and no one is buying much. They are getting $200+ on ebay so why sell to the dealers?
On the contrary, I am posting the true known counts because they are not showing up in quantity. Perhaps my estimate will rise (it must) but it does not look like a bunch are coming out. My phone was quiet today (I was able to get some work done). The ebay buyers are in the drivers seat of the market right now. Next week our ad will come out and the market should get an extra bounce by it as well.
As far as those who keep saying this is a typical dealer hype deal, I must say, these need to be hyped. Who else knows what these should be worth, than those buying them. Get on board and enjoy the ride.
I am posting all the information I know. I guess if the opposite were true and I hoarded all the information, you would say similar things. I can't win (at least with this bunch)
I believe the presses have four dies which strike coins at once. If two dies had a variety then they would be automatically mixed with an extra normal one (total of two normal with the two variety coins) with every stroke of the press.
Now, the die making process: A blank die has a conical head and is impressed once with the hub which is a positive (looks just like a coin). Perhaps an curved piece of metal landed on the die (or hub if the operation is inverted). It got smashed into the first die andd created the Extra Leaf high variety. The next blank die comes along and that smooshed curved debris is now sticking to the hub, although slightly moved. Now the next die gets impressed and the Extra leaf low gets made. They are then put into the same press with two other normal dies and a variety is created.
For the record, I just want to make sure the following is permanent:
"This price is in anticipation of at least 5000 pieces being found. If the current supply is all that is found, these will be $500 to $2000 per coin depending on the grade."
I think the best single die variety to compare the rarity is the 1982 No P dime. There are fewer than 2000 of these graded. I think the value will be much higher than the 1982 No P because it is a State-Quarter.
Rick, I think your theory has some merit but it does not explain why with the lower leaf the corn design is over the error. The error must have been laid down prior to the die being hubbed. To me this means it had to come from the hub or some one picked the utterly perfect place on the die and used a punch. however the extra leaf has the apperance of the rest of the design which makes me really think it had to be on the hub. The hubs are huge compared to a die. i think some mint employee created this on a master hub, was aware of the entire process and probably pulled the dies soon after it went into use and destroyed it. I feel this had to be a hub error.
This couldn't be a punch becuase if you try to punch something like this into a die the metal will flow outward and upward causing a ridge in the die next to the "extra leaf". In looking at these I don't see a depression next to the "extra leaf" so I don't believe this could be the cause. The dies are also very hard and would be very difficult to try to chisel a design like this into the dies so I don't believe this is the cause. It could be engraved into the die but I don't suspect this. My opinion (which isn't worth anything) is that some piece of metal was betweeen the hub and the die when the dies were made which would mean the likelyhood of more being found somewhere other than Arizona is very good. Only time will tell.
I just searched two 100 coin bags and found nothing. I have a sister that lives in Gila Bend, AZ. She has searched about ten rolls so far and found nothing. So it does not appear they are common. Whole thing is kind of strange to me - wonder if the mint did it on purpose to stir up some interest, and increase sales?
P.S. Don't care for the quarters very much, but the bags are really nice.
Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
<< <i>While demand is the greatest determinant of the price of a collectible there are times that availability will create demand. If there are enough of these quarters for lots of collectors to have one then there might be far more demand than if there are very few.
It's not only the quantity available that we'll have to wait to see, it is also the magnitude of the demand. >>
That's one of the things about numismatics that has always fascinated me. If there were only 500 examples of the 3-legged Buffalo, only the real serious variety collectors would be interested. You need more than a few, but not too many. And it needs to be in the Redbook as a line item, not a footnote.
I think the wild card here is what the Mint ends up saying about the extra leaf varieties. No matter what actually happened, I think they'll say that it's some goofy striking anomaly and fluff it off. But if they actually legitimize them by saying it was a design variation, the demand will be big.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Actually in the latest Coin World there is a modification of the Mint opinion. They think it was done during the die making process. I don't think the cause will matter anyway.
For those that have purchased and received these sets from Ebay auctions... I am curious what condition are they in? I received some and they seem good but do have visible marks on them. (I was told they were from a bank roll - uncirculated) As a "newbie" I am not sure I really understand if a coin will go MS63, MS64, MS65 or MS66. It sounds like if it is straight from a bank roll it should fall in this range. If I see a scratch or "contact mark" with the naked eye what range will that put the coin? If it takes magnification to see these "contact marks" where does this put the coin? Who is brave enough to try to explain the difference to me?!? Anyone have any good links to a site with pictures for this? I would like to get some idea to try and decide if I should send these in to PCGS or not. I think the ability to be comfortable with hitting a grade may take a while to get! Maybe after enough coin shows have gone by and enough hours spent looking at graded coins I will hopefully get a better understanding but for now I need help! THANKS!
pines, maybe someone else will have better news, but in my opinion it's next to impossible to describe in words (or even pictures) the difference between MS coins that are only a couple points apart. That's the hardest aspect of grading - MS coins.
The grading factors are luster, strike, eye appeal and contact marks. When evaluating contact marks and their affect on the grade, you have to take into account not only how many, but where they are, and how large. It's an art. Some coins with what I would consider a lot of contact marks are still MS66 because of the other factors. Some coins with very few small contact marks which are well hidden are MS62 because of the other factors. The marks alone are just one component.
My recommendation is not to send them in. You can always do it later, after your grading skills have improved. But I see no point in submitting coins just to see if they are MS63 or MS66 or somewhere in between if you aren't going to sell them. Go to some coin shows and view as many coins as you can in different series and you'll be able to at least get to within a point or two.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
kranky - Thanks for your quick reply. Your recommendation to not send them in yet is a good one. No rush since they are for my young son who will be hanging on to them. Yes I can definately see it is an art to grading and no cut and dry answers! I appreciate your advice and my son and I will be continuing to spend long hours at the shows! Thanks!
cladking..thanks for your welcome!
As a note:There are those that don't really like the State Quarter Program and say state quarters are not really collectible. (until now!) That may be but they got my 11 year old son into coins which got me into coins (he now has a passion for Mercury's and Buffalo's). We are having alot of fun together learning and picking up a few things at shows. I say thanks to the state quarter program (collectible or not) for giving us this hobby together - we're having fun!
<< <i> As a note:There are those that don't really like the State Quarter Program and say state quarters are not really collectible. (until now!) That may be but they got my 11 year old son into coins which got me into coins (he now has a passion for Mercury's and Buffalo's). We are having alot of fun together learning and picking up a few things at shows. I say thanks to the state quarter program (collectible or not) for giving us this hobby together - we're having fun! >>
That's my son's and my story too!
Collecting coins, medals and currency featuring "The Sower"
I got a couple of these today. I examined them under a 30 power microscope. These coins are absouluty incredible!!!
The low leaf is just that, a low leaf. This is not a die gouge or die clash or whatever. The low leaf to me looks like someone got a tool and made this thing. After cutting it they left the metal on the side creating a indentation on the coins themselves. Perhaps the master die had a piece of the leaf come off the the master hub (incuse) and lodged right on top of the cheese on the master die (relief)
The higher leaf example looks like a failed attempt at carving a leaf into the die and then they stoped, saw someone coming and put it back in the die box!
There has to more of these out there or at the mint still. THese cannot be an accident, it looks deliberate.
<< <i>What’s a new 2005 Wisconsin quarter minting variety worth? That was a question for Eagle Eye Coins at its table during the Florida United Numismatists convention held Jan. 13-16 in Fort Lauderdale.
The firm had accumulated a small number of quarters that seem to show new leaves on the corn plant on the Wisconsin side of the design. The extra leaf appears in two positions. One appears lower than the other.
Eagle Eye Coins assembled three-coin sets containing a regular quarter, the extra leaf low version and extra leaf high. Price for a time was $150 a set, but as the show progressed and it seemed that supplies were not large, Eagle Eye Coins took them off the market.
So far these coins have turned up only in the Tucson, Ariz., area, which is the firm’s home. Error-variety authorities are examining them to determine the cause of the extra leaves. A determination that the leaves are due to die damage, such as a die gouge, would render the pieces essentially valueless, while if it was part of the original die design, it would ensure their significant value.
Rick Snow said that fewer than 500 pieces of both leaf types were around. He can be reached at (866) 323-2646. His address is P.O. Box 65645, Tucson, AZ 85728. Brett Palser, also of Tucson, noted that the extra leaf high version was the slightly scarcer of the two at about a 60-40 split with the extra leaf low. He can be reached at (520) 498-4615. >>
This is a couple days old but is in the Numis News E-newsletter.
The value of Wisconsin quarters is said to be going through the roof!
At least by eBay seller "thelordprovides," who has now opted to raise his minimum acceptable bid for the 100 coin lot from ten to twenty and now to $30,000.
At this current rate of value expansion, these 100 "low leaf" coins should easily hit the $250,000 mark or higher by the end of next week.
Then all that he needs is someone to provide what is called "a buyer."
I really dont think this seller, "thelordprovides" is a legit EBAY seller. I see all of his "extra leaf" auctions have been pulled, either voluntarily or otherwise, and he has zero feedback since becoming amember on 2001.
"Well here's another nice mess you have gotten me into" Oliver Hardy 1930
Comments
<< <i>There will always be a rush when a new variety surfaces. The 1995 DD cent was indeed a rush, but then a couple bags were discovered. There are 20,000 examples certified! Even so it is still a $40 coin. It is a poor comparison because there is not even a hint of more than 1 -2000 of these quarters. I don't think the $200 sets on ebay are a risk at all (unless they have fingerprints). >>
Like the song says, "only time will tell."
I don't see you recollecting what some of the first 1995 DDO cent sold for, close to 4 digits I believe
I have a Westward Journey Keel Boat (D) coin and die set. Number of strikes: 97,139
<< <i>.....I'd like to say that the majority of Statehood Quarter collectors haven't heard of these varieties yet. ....I'd say half the Statehood collectors go to work 5-days a week, come home and spend their leisure time having nothing to do with coins whatsoever. Maybe a few times a year they visit the coin shops, dealers and flea markets in the area. They probably get coins sent to them from the mint or buy them off of EBay. I'd go so far to say that most Statehood Quarter collectors are mainly into collecting another type of coin and probably don't check anywhere for new varieties. So that leaves a lot of demand as yet unaccounted for! .........I can see the demand at least doubling after the rest of the Statehood Quarter collectors find out about this. >>
I'd expect minimal to no demand from the collectors you describe. Like my kids, many of these new collectors have a "fill the hole" approach to collecting: if there's a slot in the State Quarter album, they want to the coin to fill it.
However, I can't see publishers adding slots for these varieties because it upsets their nice 5-new-designs-per-year album layouts. Also, if they include these varieties, they'll have to think about including P and D mintmark slots and potential future varieties. Why incur the costs of album redesign etc. to accomodate the narrow market segment of informed variety collectors (versus the larger (ie. more profitable) target, the novice collector market?)) What will they do if something else is discovered, redesign their albums again?
Easier for them to do nothing. And so, with their current quarter folders in-hand, novice collectors will likely plug in any old Wisconsin quarter, with nary a thought about seemingly obscure variations in the corn husk.
<< <i>how many of these coins have just not come to light yet.
To say they were all in one shipment seems to be jumping
the gun. Say 1000-1700 pieces total work great for selling
but how do you come to that number so early in the game.
Why would a die only be used for such a short term?
Kinda got me wondering if estimate are a marketing ploy
rather than a firm belief. Just because in this shipment only
this estimated number is being found, what about other shipments
not yet checked. I'm sorry if I disagree but I find it hard to
believe a die would just be used for such a short term.
Maybe you can give me a reason.
Just my two and half cents.
Smitty >>
Could it be that those who have a vested interest in the item going out of their way to hype or promote it....nah, that will never happen in numismatics
that availability will create demand. If there are enough of these quarters for lots of
collectors to have one then there might be far more demand than if there are very few.
It's not only the quantity available that we'll have to wait to see, it is also the magnitude
of the demand.
There are no holes to fill (none that I have seen) in the books that are out.
But, it is still collected (heck, I am after one myself....I need one I like at a price I can afford).
I also bought a 1995DDO Lincoln. I wouldn't pay 4 figures for this (nor for the 1995DDO, but I sure am for the 1955DDO when I get it.
Now, will this be as extremely collected? Probably not for more than a few years. But, I think it is neat, and I blow more than what I am sending Rick for mine on a single night at the casino (and, many of you spend more than that on cigarettes over a month or two
So, whether it is hyping or not, many will get some. Will I be selling mine and making money right away like some? Nope.
Everyone has thoughts on these, like everything else, and there are always people who bash things. I can understand taking a nonchalant stance, but sometimes, it goes way past......
I, too, wonder how many there are. Why only in Tucson? Why both varities and only there?
Doesn't sound like a "scratch" through a coin counting machine in the area.
Maybe they were caught at the mint and discarded but a small batch made it out?
Maybe there is a santa claus in numismatics afterall and the boring state quarters gets a gift?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
On the contrary, I am posting the true known counts because they are not showing up in quantity. Perhaps my estimate will rise (it must) but it does not look like a bunch are coming out. My phone was quiet today (I was able to get some work done). The ebay buyers are in the drivers seat of the market right now. Next week our ad will come out and the market should get an extra bounce by it as well.
As far as those who keep saying this is a typical dealer hype deal, I must say, these need to be hyped. Who else knows what these should be worth, than those buying them. Get on board and enjoy the ride.
I am posting all the information I know. I guess if the opposite were true and I hoarded all the information, you would say similar things. I can't win (at least with this bunch)
I believe the presses have four dies which strike coins at once. If two dies had a variety then they would be automatically mixed with an extra normal one (total of two normal with the two variety coins) with every stroke of the press.
Now, the die making process:
A blank die has a conical head and is impressed once with the hub which is a positive (looks just like a coin). Perhaps an curved piece of metal landed on the die (or hub if the operation is inverted). It got smashed into the first die andd created the Extra Leaf high variety. The next blank die comes along and that smooshed curved debris is now sticking to the hub, although slightly moved. Now the next die gets impressed and the Extra leaf low gets made. They are then put into the same press with two other normal dies and a variety is created.
"This price is in anticipation of at least 5000 pieces being found. If the current supply is all that is found, these will be $500 to $2000 per coin depending on the grade."
J&J Coins
website
Wild Ebay Toners for sale
The big O
P.S. Don't care for the quarters very much, but the bags are really nice.
Tbig
<< <i>While demand is the greatest determinant of the price of a collectible there are times
that availability will create demand. If there are enough of these quarters for lots of
collectors to have one then there might be far more demand than if there are very few.
It's not only the quantity available that we'll have to wait to see, it is also the magnitude
of the demand. >>
That's one of the things about numismatics that has always fascinated me. If there were only 500 examples of the 3-legged Buffalo, only the real serious variety collectors would be interested. You need more than a few, but not too many. And it needs to be in the Redbook as a line item, not a footnote.
I think the wild card here is what the Mint ends up saying about the extra leaf varieties. No matter what actually happened, I think they'll say that it's some goofy striking anomaly and fluff it off. But if they actually legitimize them by saying it was a design variation, the demand will be big.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
I received some and they seem good but do have visible marks on them. (I was told they were from a bank roll - uncirculated) As a "newbie" I am not sure I really understand if a coin will go MS63, MS64, MS65 or MS66. It sounds like if it is straight from a bank roll it should fall in this range. If I see a scratch or "contact mark" with the naked eye what range will that put the coin? If it takes magnification to see these "contact marks" where does this put the coin?
Who is brave enough to try to explain the difference to me?!? Anyone have any good links to a site with pictures for this? I would like to get some idea to try and decide if I should send these in to PCGS or not. I think the ability to be comfortable with hitting a grade may take a while to get! Maybe after enough coin shows have gone by and enough hours spent looking at graded coins I will hopefully get a better understanding but for now I need help! THANKS!
The grading factors are luster, strike, eye appeal and contact marks. When evaluating contact marks and their affect on the grade, you have to take into account not only how many, but where they are, and how large. It's an art. Some coins with what I would consider a lot of contact marks are still MS66 because of the other factors. Some coins with very few small contact marks which are well hidden are MS62 because of the other factors. The marks alone are just one component.
My recommendation is not to send them in. You can always do it later, after your grading skills have improved. But I see no point in submitting coins just to see if they are MS63 or MS66 or somewhere in between if you aren't going to sell them. Go to some coin shows and view as many coins as you can in different series and you'll be able to at least get to within a point or two.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
cladking..thanks for your welcome!
As a note:There are those that don't really like the State Quarter Program and say state quarters are not really collectible. (until now!) That may be but they got my 11 year old son into coins which got me into coins (he now has a passion for Mercury's and Buffalo's). We are having alot of fun together learning and picking up a few things at shows. I say thanks to the state quarter program (collectible or not) for giving us this hobby together - we're having fun!
<< <i>... - we're having fun! >>
This is what it's all about and these new coins are just going to add more fun and excitement.
My EBay Store/Auctions
<< <i>
As a note:There are those that don't really like the State Quarter Program and say state quarters are not really collectible. (until now!) That may be but they got my 11 year old son into coins which got me into coins (he now has a passion for Mercury's and Buffalo's). We are having alot of fun together learning and picking up a few things at shows. I say thanks to the state quarter program (collectible or not) for giving us this hobby together - we're having fun! >>
That's my son's and my story too!
The low leaf is just that, a low leaf. This is not a die gouge or die clash or whatever. The low leaf to me looks like someone got a tool and made this thing. After cutting it they left the metal on the side creating a indentation on the coins themselves. Perhaps the master die had a piece of the leaf come off the the master hub (incuse) and lodged right on top of the cheese on the master die (relief)
The higher leaf example looks like a failed attempt at carving a leaf into the die and then they stoped, saw someone coming and put it back in the die box!
There has to more of these out there or at the mint still. THese cannot be an accident, it looks deliberate.
Does grade matter on a coin like this?
Tbig
My EBay Store/Auctions
<< <i>What’s a new 2005 Wisconsin quarter minting variety worth? That was a question for Eagle Eye Coins at its table during the Florida United Numismatists convention held Jan. 13-16 in Fort Lauderdale.
The firm had accumulated a small number of quarters that seem to show new leaves on the corn plant on the Wisconsin side of the design. The extra leaf appears in two positions. One appears lower than the other.
Eagle Eye Coins assembled three-coin sets containing a regular quarter, the extra leaf low version and extra leaf high. Price for a time was $150 a set, but as the show progressed and it seemed that supplies were not large, Eagle Eye Coins took them off the market.
So far these coins have turned up only in the Tucson, Ariz., area, which is the firm’s home. Error-variety authorities are examining them to determine the cause of the extra leaves. A determination that the leaves are due to die damage, such as a die gouge, would render the pieces essentially valueless, while if it was part of the original die design, it would ensure their significant value.
Rick Snow said that fewer than 500 pieces of both leaf types were around. He can be reached at (866) 323-2646. His address is P.O. Box 65645, Tucson, AZ 85728. Brett Palser, also of Tucson, noted that the extra leaf high version was the slightly scarcer of the two at about a 60-40 split with the extra leaf low. He can be reached at (520) 498-4615.
>>
This is a couple days old but is in the Numis News E-newsletter.
At least by eBay seller "thelordprovides," who has now opted to raise his minimum acceptable bid for the 100 coin lot from ten to twenty and now
to $30,000.
At this current rate of value expansion, these 100 "low leaf" coins should easily hit the $250,000 mark or higher by the end of next week.
Then all that he needs is someone to provide what is called "a buyer."
EC
BST successful dealings with:MsMorrisine, goldman86