Live from the bourse floor at the FUN show UPDATED 1-13
jbsteven
Posts: 6,178 ✭
report from the bourse floor...........
activity is indeed brisk from what I have seen so far. Toners are selling at a very nice pace and people seem to be stepping up for the nice stuff. nice Morgans seem to be selling at posted levels and even aboQuoteve posted levels for PQ examples.
Mark Feld quotes........
The show is too big to have a quote at this time.
Foodude was heard saying he is buying nice Franklins and needs more.
Ron Sirna seems to be buying half of the toners that are for sale on the bourse floor.
fountainheadgold has been pulling out his A box of toners and wowing everybody.
rainbowroosies is quoted as saying......
anyone who is anyone is here at the show.
more live updates to follow.
1-13
Big buzz on the floor is the insane prices for nice coins in the auction. Personally I wonder where all this money is coming from. silly prices on many nice coins.
activity is indeed brisk from what I have seen so far. Toners are selling at a very nice pace and people seem to be stepping up for the nice stuff. nice Morgans seem to be selling at posted levels and even aboQuoteve posted levels for PQ examples.
Mark Feld quotes........
The show is too big to have a quote at this time.
Foodude was heard saying he is buying nice Franklins and needs more.
Ron Sirna seems to be buying half of the toners that are for sale on the bourse floor.
fountainheadgold has been pulling out his A box of toners and wowing everybody.
rainbowroosies is quoted as saying......
anyone who is anyone is here at the show.
more live updates to follow.
1-13
Big buzz on the floor is the insane prices for nice coins in the auction. Personally I wonder where all this money is coming from. silly prices on many nice coins.
0
Comments
No all we need is Jade/Dennis with his webcam, and we will be all set.
<< <i>Cool, thanks JB.
No all we need is Jade/Dennis with his webcam, and we will be all set. >>
i guess i could snap some photos with my camera on my phone and upload........we shall see
Cameron Kiefer
I am also a nobody. Hope you all have fun tho!
A brief FUN show report and a bit of advice form a dealer (who handles mostly higher grade mint state and Proof copper, nickel and silver type, classic silver commemoratives, some early 20th century singles and a bit of gold) :
While I do not carry a large inventory by any means, I have already sold approximately 2/3 of what I brought here. And, I wasn't really making much of an effort to sell. I have also been able to buy a good number of appealing coins at reasonable (as in not cheap and not overly pricey) levels.
Speaking for myself at least, the key is to be patient, pick and choose among what is available, be willing to pass on coins that are obviously priced too high, reject the ones that are just ho-hum/ordinary in quality and/or appearance and scoop up the ones that are desirable, yet still priced fairly. The percentage of viewed coins that can be obtained that way might be low, but the number of coins acquired eventually adds up.
I realize the above is easier said than done, but it can be done. It takes lots of looking, time, patience and discipline. But, the opportunities to purchase nice coins at fair prices are there, if you are willing to do the work and not get carried away.
<< <i>................
....................anyone who is anyone is here at the show...... >>
Then what are you doing there, jb?
42/92
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>
<< <i>................
....................anyone who is anyone is here at the show...... >>
Then what are you doing there, jb?
that's what I was thinking
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
Camelot
business is brisk from what all the dealers seem to be saying. I have a limited inventory at the moment and even with a smaller inventory I am selling a goood amount of coins. I have not heard one dealer say it has been a slow show for them.
auctions have gone for STUPID money! Alot of dealers have said that they cannot buy at these auction prices.
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
Depends on one's position. Dealers for years have been used to picking auctions clean, taking coins home for 15-25% markup, and making out pretty well. Now they are competing more and more against their own customers (or potential customers) who don't want to toss 15% out the window. Certainly some of these buyers pay too much at auction. But the net effect is less coins going to dealers than ever before. I would call the prices stupid too if I couldn't compete anymore (and basically I can't).
Some of those same dealers are likely the underbidders too!
roadrunner
Oh dear, Im one of em.
Camelot
O.K. so if the dealers are getting topped out are we near the top?
So far I have not heard anyone say out loud that this market seems to be like the Battery Bunny, and is going to just keep going. We have all been waiting months to see what this big sale would indicate to us, do we need a couple of more days for a verdict?
Now this particular coin is one of the rarer varieties of 93, but still it is stong money for a cent!
Other coins set records like the 1801 three errors reverse that realized $138,000. It is the only know example in Mint state.
Many of the varieties were stong as well. I am not sure if large cents are a good indicated of market health or not.
Just check out greysheet on a good 04 1793 cap!
Tbig
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
Nope, next year will be bigger!
Imagine that.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Gee Tom,
Are we going to have every rare coin in ever collected sell before his market is done?
How many big time collections like the ones we have been seeing are out there? If there are 50 guys like Hugon how rare are all these coins?
Does he think we are headed into a truly investment type market where coins are just churned for profits by collectors ?
Or losses?
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
list everything you've bought verses the numismatic "wholesale" and the number of people with this coin on their want list. It almost looks like a stockbroker's statement!! (of course my broker doesn't charge 15% + seller fees to get in/out)!
Yes and all a stock broker does is make the sales call, and hand a piece of paper to someone and the deal is done.
No delivery and nothing physical about it.
If the coin business were 10% as easy as stocks..... woweee.
Stock brokers are wussies.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Tbig
The guy knows markets. And now, as an auctioneer with a relatively tiny inventory for Heritage's size, he has reduced the risk to a negligible amount.
roadrunner
<< <i>We have all been waiting months to see what this big sale would indicate to us, do we need a couple of more days for a verdict? >>
Leading up to this show all I read was how many coins were up for auction and how the market could not absorb that many. Now I keep reading about how everyone bid stupid money and still got overbid (me included). I don't think I need much more time to conclude that coins are in big demand and not just by a handful of investors. The new coin designs have spurred interest and the Internet has provided availability. It will be hard to find a point in market history to compare given these two elements are new. I'm a believer that the market has no reason , short of a huge spike in interest rates, to make any turnarounds. I expect a boom year in 2005.
<< <i>I expect a boom year in 2005. >>
I expect you are right.
I resemble that remark.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>The coppers of Wes Rasmussen 1793-1814 were very strong. Check out this cap$9200.00
Now this particular coin is one of the rarer varieties of 93, but still it is stong money for a cent!
Just check out greysheet on a good 04 1793 cap >>
Actually that cent probably went a little on the cheap side. That coin is the about the seventh finest known and it lists as the variety at $9000 in VG. What the Graysheet says in Good is immaterial. Also note someting interesting here. EAC grading is known for its strictness, yet here is a coin with a HIGHER EAC grade than the NGC slab grade. Why? Because NGC didn't take into account the fact that the reverse die on this variety buckled and sank. The central detail on the reverse was never there to begin with and the lower presure in the center also caused a loss of detail on the central obverse. So it didn't take that much wear to remove the central features, but the peripheral features are still strong and the bust relief is still high and well rounded. It is NOT a Good, but it oes look like one at first glance if you don't know the peculiarities of the different varieties. One of the problems with the services grading early copper.
<< <i>Because NGC didn't take into account the fact that the reverse die on this variety buckled and sank. >>
Thanks for the info.
Ken
1. Ordinary coins bring ordinary prices - 10% below to 10% above greysheet levels.
2. Overgraded coins or misgraded coins as a general rule bring well back of greysheet levels - eg: a Proof 65RD coin that is actually RB sells for what a PQ PF65RB would sell for, and in some cases, even less.
3. Exceptional coins bring exceptional prices - I was bidding on a very nice PF65RD (exceptional eye-appeal for the grade and a potential upgrade) - I stopped bidding at close to $2000, well over sheet and remarked to the dealer who bought the coin in the low $2K range that I thought for a moment that I was going to "rip" a coin - his comment to me was: "Not unless you were willing to pay $4K!"
I believe that there is in reality a 2 tier market which can be summed up as follows: Ordinary coins bring ordinary prices, Exceptional coins bring exceptional prices! - This seems to be true in other areas of the market also -
While I did not "set-up" to sell coins, I did have a case full of very nice toned coins that I did not use in my toned coin exhibit. Many people who specialize in toned coins repeatedly asked me If I would sell some of the nicest coins. I can't tell you the number of times I patiently explained that I only had the coins in my case because I wasn't sure which ones would be used in my toned coin Exhibit, so I brought "extras" to make sure that my exhibit had the right look. If I had choosen to offer the coins in that case for sale, I'm quite certain that I could have sold half the case before noon on Friday, and not at cheap prices. As I was only intermittently at the table, Jason got so tired of telling people that my coins were not for sale that he made a little sign that said "The coins in this case are NOT FOR SALE" and made put it in the case. Even with that sign predominatley displayed in my case, whenever I was there, I was repeatedly asked if I would sell many of the coins that I had in the case. I'm begining to believe that the number on the paper insert is less important than the eye-appeal of the coin. It seems that collectors like nice coins with great eye-appeal and are more than willing to step up and pay for those coins.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
Great coins bring great prices....
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
Newmismatist wrote about toned coins in this thread. I would like to share one experience from FUN with regard to toned coins.
First, I do not collect toned coins so I am a novice in this area.
I was absolutely shocked to see an 09-VDB NGC MS-65*BN sell for over $2000. The toning was nice, but realize that the standard 09-VDB in 65BN is about a $50 coin at best.
What an eye opener!
Jack
<< <i>Newmismatist wrote about toned coins in this thread. I would like to share one experience from FUN with regard to toned coins.
First, I do not collect toned coins so I am a novice in this area.
I was absolutely shocked to see an 09-VDB NGC MS-65*BN sell for over $2000. The toning was nice, but realize that the standard 09-VDB in 65BN is about a $50 coin at best.
What an eye opener!
Jack >>
For many years, BN copper coins have been considered the "uglies" of the Lincolns and Indian Head cents - this is because the grading services have lumped the wonderfully toned copper coins together with the dull and lifeless brown coins - It would be like creating 2 categories for silver coins - "White" and "Tarnished" and lumping the monster toned Morgans (and other nicely toned silver coins) with the ugliest available coins and then creating a section in the greysheet for "Tarnished" coins. As the greysheet concept is to list the price levels for the "average" looking coin of that particular grade, the price levels for the "Tarnished" coins would be significantly LESS than the beautifully toned coins. This is exactly what has happened over the years with the BN category of copper coins - there is no "Toned" category for copper coins, so the grading sevices simply lump them together with some very dull and pedestrian coins - Those who know what a wonderfully toned copper coin looks like are willing to pay MORE for those very attractive coins than for a spotted and lifeless RD copper coin of the same grade - Think of the over-dipped, washed out and lifeless "white" Morgan dollar in MS 65 and compare it to a beautiful Rainbow toned MS 65 Morgan. Which one would you pay a premium for? The same is true for copper coins - I would bet anyone lunch at their favorite restaurant that that 1909-VDB NGC "MS-65*BN" was a beautifully toned coin and that the designation BN did not accurately describe it's real color or eye-appeal.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
<< <i>I was absolutely shocked to see an 09-VDB NGC MS-65*BN sell for over $2000. >>
If I recall correctly from a thread here, that puppy brought $2900 with the juice.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
For many years, BN copper coins have been considered the "uglies" of the Lincolns and Indian Head cents - this is because the grading services have lumped the wonderfully toned copper coins together with the dull and lifeless brown coins - It would be like creating 2 categories for silver coins - "White" and "Tarnished" and lumping the monster toned Morgans (and other nicely toned silver coins) with the ugliest available coins and then creating a section in the greysheet for "Tarnished" coins. As the greysheet concept is to list the price levels for the "average" looking coin of that particular grade, the price levels for the "Tarnished" coins would be significantly LESS than the beautifully toned coins. This is exactly what has happened over the years with the BN category of copper coins - there is no "Toned" category for copper coins, so the grading sevices simply lump them together with some very dull and pedestrian coins - Those who know what a wonderfully toned copper coin looks like are willing to pay MORE for those very attractive coins than for a spotted and lifeless RD copper coin of the same grade - Think of the over-dipped, washed out and lifeless "white" Morgan dollar in MS 65 and compare it to a beautiful Rainbow toned MS 65 Morgan. Which one would you pay a premium for? The same is true for copper coins - I would bet anyone lunch at their favorite restaurant that that 1909-VDB NGC "MS-65*BN" was a beautifully toned coin and that the designation BN did not accurately describe it's real color or eye-appeal. >>
This bears repitition.
Attractive copper is very underappreciated.
Great thread.
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
42/92
I saw it during lot viewing, it was a pretty coin. But, $2900??
I have a few of these, guess I better take inventory.
Jack