FUN WHITE HOT ?
GOLDSAINT
Posts: 2,148 ✭
I received an email last night from one of our board members who is at FUN buying some nice coins, and spending some serious money. His early report is that the market is very hot. He says he is picking up some high-end early coins i.e. 64’s 65’s 66’s, but is really having to pay up for them.
Do we have any other preliminary reports?
On a side note, there is a collector selling lots of MS 63 to MS 65 Bust halves in the Heritage auction, Richard J. Chouinard Collection of United States Coins, Does anyone have any information on this collector?
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I attended the ANR last nite and prices were very strong but then again many of those coins were attractive with nice originality. I was only able to pick off a couple of deals. But to ease the pain of the hammer, the buffet was delicious!
Congrats to Laurie Sperber's client that won lot 689 (the 1869 No Motto Dollar) for a hammer of $1,000,050.00!!!
Even top tier coins that aren't 'all there' are a tad weak. In the past 18 months, I passed on two coins privately because either the coin was technically ok but without the required eye appeal or with eye appeal but technically a bit weak. These two coins sold for 25-30% less than the consignor eventually paid for them.
Be selective in this market!
Cameron Kiefer
I hope not. When the coin market goes white hot it's an indicator that there is a lot of stupid money paying wildly inflated prices. That's the stuff that leads to the crash and burn market where a lot of people get hurt. I remember the early and late 1980s and have no interest in a repeat of that.
“Prices will be very high. All the players are here. I had to pay double sheet for some coins”
“ Not too many bust coins are in the sale that will bring the large bucks.( but there were a few). 2 early dollars in PCGS 63 brought around 100,000 yesterday--1795 draped bust B-14 and B-15. Normally these coins would have hammered at 75,000. The 1796 half, 16 stars, in PCGS AU 55 hammered at 150,000.”
“No one will buy all the Hugon Barbers. That does not mean that someone couldn't buy them all. The money is here.”
bread and butter material began to stagnate on the retail floor there, with a lot of collector money going into that "one"
coin they'd put off buying at auction. I spoke to a dealer by phone last night and he saw a strong demand at the top, but less demand and slower sales for the more common material. It will be interesting if there is a further split with circulated EF/AU popular series actually stronger as collectors finish sets, while the MS62/63's above stagnate due to recent price runups in some cases. Should be a watershead show.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
How many times have you seen the coins selling at these major auctions end up reselling at a loss? MANY TIMES. The smart money will wait until the temperature drops along with the prices in the near future. Of course if you are one of our deep pocket collectors it doesn't matter, you'll pay the big bucks and bury the coin. Nothing wrong with that.
Ditto.
So many average NGC coins just did not sell or bring reserves. Far more than PCGS coins. If you don't believe holder bias just lookie here. Some of the NGC Lull type coins brought great prices, but the nice PCGS ones brought greater prices. Some so-so coins just brought blue sheet if they sold....forget CDN.
1833 bust half in PCGS MS68 - $89,700 (ex-Whitlow type set?)
1878-s PCGS MS68 trade dollar - $98,900 (think TDN passed)
1833 bust half dime - MS68 finest - $41K (can you say HOLY MOLY)
1820 MS68 dime - ex Pinnacle at ($105-120K) brought only $75K...
this was probably a big loser for the consignor. He had to have
paid in the $95-110K range.
1838 ND 25c PCGS MS68 - $155K. This is the king of no drapery
quarters and I believe the same coin that brought $225K in the
heat of the 1989 market. Guess monster no drapery coins are still
a touch out of favor
graded MS68 at NGC. There can't be 2 of these looking like that.
1875-cc 25c. PCGS MS65. A whopping $32,000! vs CDN of $10K.
This was the coin I wanted the most and I thought $20K would
take it. Wrong. I'm sure Gene is enjoying this coin now. A so-so
dipped one brought $15K earlier this year but this coin was
magnificent looking. Judging from the price, it's soon to upgrade.
How many rare CC quarters look like this! A prize CC quarter.
1853-0 dime in PCGS MS64. Appeared to have MS65 surfaces. Only
finer coin I am aware of is the James Stack NGC-66/PCGS-MS65 coin.
The old NGC tag never got turned in. This MS64 is probably 2nd
finest known and looked good enough to go 65. PCGS probably
didn't like the soft head but most if not all are like that.
The dichotomy in prices in these 2 key sales was very prevalent.
I second TDN's notion that you have to be selective from here on in
or risk getting killed and stuck with these coins down the road.
You almost can't be too selective.
roadrunner
<< <i>I received an email last night from one of our board members who is at FUN buying some nice coins, and spending some serious money. His early report is that the market is very hot. He says he is picking up some high-end early coins i.e. 64’s 65’s 66’s, but is really having to pay up for them.
Do we have any other preliminary reports?
Early gold has become ridiculous. I was unable to buy a single early gold coin at ANR's sale last night. Forget buying any for my own stocck and I was blown away from buying anything for customers who were on the cell phone with me while bidding. They were willing to reach too PLUS add my commission and we still didn't buy anything. The one customer I had on the phone did buy one early quarter eagle and I'm not saying which one. He asked me about it before and I told him that the coin was an animal that I didn't want to get involved in. I think it sold for 18K.
The CC silver type went for the moon. Double eagles which you know weren't too substantive seemed soft.
Gonna be an interesting week.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
might be almost time to sell a certain half eagle
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Not for me, but I would not (will not) be a buyer of early gold, either.
I am looking forward to the large number of coins of all shapes and sizes that will be crossing both the auction blocks and the bourse in th next few days. Surprisingly, I do not regret much that I will not be there.
<< <i>Early gold has become ridiculous
might be almost time to sell a certain half eagle
Depends Baley. It pains me greatly to see prices where they are and I'm in a catch 22 scenario. I placed several dozen early eagles in the last few years and have also bought quite a few of them back or consigned them to auction. Killed me to sell my own, but in my opinion it just became too crazy.
Half eagles last night went for high high money. If that's the new trend then unfortunately I'll be getting rid of the ones I have and recommend to my customers to do the same BUT not on all earlies. Check real rarity vs "date price and tell me what you see in terms of percentages.
I'll give you a case in point. I sold a customer of mine a R-7 1799 Eagle last year in AU-58 for $14,500. That's when average rarity 99's were between 12 and 13K Now the common varieties are way high. Would you now sell the R-7 variety?
I wouldn't. Most dealers couldn't tell the difference and there's plenty of room for these to see higher values in time, in my opinion. same thing with half eagles. I have a customer who owns an R-8 1795 in 58. Is it not worth double what a "common" ( yes I realize it's almosr stupid to call any of them common and would be open to a new word to describe them) ones are? It's on my website and he started asking about three times common money which is now about 2 times common. Hahaha pretty soon, parity?
Sorry for the long winded breakdown but I'm sure you're catching my drift. It all depends to say it in a nutshell
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Sorry for the long winded breakdown but I'm sure you're catching my drift. It all depends to say it in a nutshell >>
Mr. Earlygold,
You should be resting or exercising --- nothing in between.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sorry for the long winded breakdown but I'm sure you're catching my drift. It all depends to say it in a nutshell >>
Mr. Earlygold,
You should be resting or exercising --- nothing in between.
Yeh I know Mr. Wondo. Jeesh I just can't stop!
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I was the underbidder on the 78-S ... I figured the holder was worth a certain amount over a 67.
JUst not a problem for me, its those darned customers.....
tbig
1913-s Quarter. I'm high bid right now, but same old story. Floor will blow me away... possible $300,000 coin maybe?
I can't believe 1917 MS68 cent that was at ANR Medio recently. $38,000 so far? And the pop 16 1915-D cent, MS66 at $23,000. From pictures it doesnt look THAT great. Sheesh, I should sell. Guess I'm gonna follow the herd and raise my limits come platinum night...
Wouldn't be surprised if that eventually makes its way to you down the road, at less than current prices.
Can't imagine any 1913-s quarter being worth $100,000 let alone $300,000, but that's the "new" market, one that I am just not familiar with.
roadrunner
dates look flat unless they're extra original--- and I notice for the first time as was pointed out--in PCGS slabs. Even the great TDN is bidding on a 78S' plastic grade, not the coin!
Tbig good example
Quite frankly, I think the MS-67 I purchased looks nicer too!
I will show pictures and compare them side by side in a few days.
From what I viewed re the current auction, strong $ is going for coins with strong eye appeal and upgrade potential. Not so for everything else. Can't comment on pedigree coins; I don't collect them.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Camelot
http://cgi3.liveauctions.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?LiveAuctionWatch&auctionid=16838&sequenceid=23395
Who has some other info.?
“The auction was very well attended, and the prices were good, but overall, within market ranges. There had been a lot of hype before the show that the Barbers would go for multiples of sheet, but that didn't happen.”
“The gold went real well, acc. to my gold bug friends.”
“An internet bidder got the Barber 13-S quarter in MS 68 for $172,000.”
On the price front for those who haven't looked: Brasher pop 1 on breast--$2.990 m., On Wing (more lusterous)--$2.415 m
Lima $690,000. Of some very rare coins in a common series (MORGANS!!) -:92s P61DMPL--$74,750 (nice coin); 93CC P64DMPL-- $48,875; 83S P64DMPL (georgeous, but silver contrast)--$46,000 (I tried!!); 1886O NGC64DPL--$32,200 (Not
near the record); 1879CC P65DMPL--$54,500; plain jane 93S P63 $106,000, nice one P64--$204,000.
It looks like the cream went to the top-- and then some- for the scarest/rarest examples in both ultra classic rarities and
common series for very rare and eye appealing coins, not necessarily the Registry High Number/grade material. Most
numbers are by phone or on a pad-- look yourself to be sure.
Camelot
Quite a show thus far!
Andy Lustig looked pretty busy too!
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
What the heck are you doing up! I woulda thought the show tooks its toll.
Jack/John
Has most everyone spent their budgets?
It seems that perhaps Laura’s comments on the Billionaire’s buying it all did not materialize, or they took their Brasher’s and went home. We have many posts here on people that walked away with several of the Bankers ( Hugon) coins.
From quick glance at the Gold auctions over the last few days it appeared that over all much of the Early gold as well as other semi-rare pieces in all grades went way over trends pricing?
Heritage has posted about 500 coins so far in the after auction buy-it-now’s and there are some real bargains like the 1964 Lincoln SMS MS68 for just $40,250.
My real question is if we are going to see any market separation between the higher end rarities and the lower graded rarities? Or is this market just continuing up the road intact?
Who has opinions on what has occurred so far?
P.S. I received another Email from our board member that was reporting in, he spent all his budget, and a little more, and left yesterday.
One other quick note on a personal basis, I bid on 4 early Bust halves for my registry set accross the street. All of these coins were somewhat rare even in Xf/AU grades. All of these coins sold for 30%plus higher than Trends, I lost all the bids.
sorta like what takes place in the Modern sector and receives regular criticism. just another example of the BS that get's slung about regularly. Ho-Hum................
al h.
<< <i>interesting reading when there's talk of a White Hot Market and most agree that the prices are way, way high for the top pop's while the lower and middle grades languish closer to sanity.
sorta like what takes place in the Modern sector and receives regular criticism. just another example of the BS that get's slung about regularly. Ho-Hum................
al h.
Of course it could also be symptomatic of a speculative blow-off that would include moderns.
This was a one-year event in Ft. Lauderdale, because a builder's convention displaced the FUN show in Orlando, where they will return next year. Couldn't be too soon, from what I could see.
My own observation is that the bourse was very slow. The usual dealer-to-dealer stuff going on, but vastly less foot traffic from the public as compared with FUN in Orlando. Some guys were saying they were having a good bourse show, but we'd go twenty minutes at a time on our end with no one stopping to look. Dramatic difference from FUN in Orlando, where people were looking over shoulders at the cases.
My impression was that this was an auction show. Most of the heat and interest (as you can see from this thread) had to do with the auction sales and what was happening upstairs. I sold very little, so I dumped my stuff in an auction consignment, and came home last night (vast detouring a al Southwest Airlines to Austin via Baltimore, but that's another familiar story).
I didn't get a chance to look at other people's stuff (downside of having a table), so I'm not sure how the quality on the bourse was as compared with other years.
PCGS' luncheon was classy, and we had a great time listening to old-timers tell stories at the panel, but I would have liked more 'schmooze" time with the other collectors.
I did have a great time with the folks on the bourse, though. jb steven passed by and waved. Spent lots of time with beartracks42, kryptonitecomics, nedervelt and Boiler78 on the floor--knowledgeable and fun guys all. Thoroughly pleasant people. Had a great dinner with Blade and his dad, tonekiller, Idahogal (family reunion!!) and src53 (who put me up in his fancy RV and who let me share his table). Mark Feld came by, made fun of how my slabs were crooked in the case, and pointed out how my 1850-O AU53 Seated Dollar was overpriced (which it was). Mark had been very generous going up to FUN giving me pointers about operating a table at a big show--thanks, Mark!
This hobby is filled with great people, folks! I've always thought that the best part of the hobby with the friendship. and comaraderie.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
My friend had a small, fresh group of some neat, rarer date ANACs DMPL and PL coins. While he could find no interest up in the Northeast on these so-called "non-suitable" holders, they sold readily as a group to Heritage. The 1898 MS66 UDM $ was one of the coins I had mentioned here a few months back. It was a nice coin and sold itself in the end. Sometimes you can get a warped sense of what stuff is worth when you only do the smaller regional and local shows.
roadrunner