When I decided to work on a long dormant set of Liberty Head nickels back in 1991, I ordered about a half dozen MS 64 raw coins from them. All the coins seemed quite nice at the time, but could have been one point overgraded. Regardless, I kept them. I didn't have any problems with their service then, but over the years since then, I have not reordered as I don't buy raw coins anymore.
Their ads in Coin World every week must have cost a fortune over the years, so they must be selling a high enough volume to cover their expenses.
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
<< <i>I have dealt with JPS for years witout a problem and this has all been done at coin shows one on one. I have never had a bad experience. Kathy is John's Niece and yes a coinworld ad is darn expensive. For all of you who are complaining about shipping time remember this, It takes time for your check to arrive, be processed, go to the bank and clear, pack the order and post it. Some checks take up to ten days and i do a lot of mail order. We process most orders in two weeks or less in my shop and it is a frantic pace. The one thing that does waste a lot of time is a customer who calls every day to see if his package has shipped starting on third day after he mails the check. This happens all the time! >>
What you're pointing out is the obvious...buying coins in person is a different experience then blindly accepting what an advertisement says. This way, you can see what they're selling is total crap or not like much of their advertisement stock seems to be. Keep in mind something else, I've heard this many times from dealers that they leave their crap "at home" for the mail order business and bring the good stuff to the shows. Their ads along raise a major red flag as to the shiesters they've proven themselves to be so many times to many of us. There are a number of advertisers where you can actually believe what their ad says and trust what they'll send you is as stated in the ad and over the phone (and YES, they'll actually talk to you about the coin over the phone unlike these JPS coin dealer hucksters).
Hey, PCGS boardsters, I know that I'm not as well known on this side of the street but I would like to share John Paul Sarosi's rebuttal to my BBB & ANA complaints (who are doing nothing, BTW):
A little follow-up info of my complaint sent to the ANA and the BBB:
Complaint against John Paul Sarosi, Inc.
I, Victor D. Easley, am lodging a three-fold complaint against John Paul Sarosi specifically and John Paul Sarosi, Inc. in general.
1)For advertising blatantly overgraded and misrepresented items.
2)For not making full refunds on returned items.
3)For extremely rude and obnoxious behavior peppered with extreme vulgarity.
I placed an order the first week of May for $650 with John Paul Sarosi, Inc. I was told that it would take three weeks to fulfill the order. That was fine. When I did receive the order on June 2nd, three of the seven items ordered were completely unacceptable. I returned the three items via registered mail (#RR290880266US) on June 2, 2005. I then received a partial refund on June 18, 2005. Details to follow.
This was my order:
1 1965 SMS set w/ cameo 50C $35.00
1 1030 P 25C SLQ MS-64 $220.00
1 1909 VDB 1C MS 66 RED $110.00
1 1964 50C Kennedy PR 67 Cameo $79.00
1 1999 Dolly Madison $ BU $55.00
1 1997 Jackie Robinson $ PR $83.00
1 1996 Smithsonian $ PR $68.00 _________ $650.00
Minus a coupon for $50 off orders over $500 = $600.00
Now each of the three complaints shall be addressed in more detail:
1)For advertising blatantly overgraded and misrepresented items.
I am a senior numismatist who has invested hundreds of hours in the study, reading and discussion of coins. In addition, I have attended the ANA Official Coin Grading Seminar. So, the following opinions are tempered with knowledge.
a)The 1909 VDB cent was advertised as “MS-66 Fiery Mint State Red”.
The pricing structure will often give hints of the true nature of a coin. A true MS 66 RED coin brings from $250-$300 in today’s market. So, I knew that with a price tag of $110 that this advertised coin was not truly a 66 but, I had hoped, would be a very nice, original MS 65 RED example. When received, I was sorely disappointed. It not only was an ugly, unoriginal coin but there was a huge rim disturbance immediately below the date. The fact that is was a damaged and unoriginal example of this coinage type would result in this coin being rejected for certification by the leading Third Party Grading Services. In reality, this was a $25 coin.
b)The 1930 Standing Liberty Quarter would also have been rejected to be graded by the leading Third Party Grading Services.
Upon placement of my order, I requested from Mary Sarosi to have a sharply struck mint state example for my type collection. I additionally stated that I would pay a premium for a top example. She and John Paul Sarosi, Inc. took a full three weeks to fulfill this order which should have provided sufficient time to obtain the request example. Yet, when I received my example in the mail, it was also a problem coin which would have been rejected by any numismatist with the least bit of knowledge. It was a 1930 dated example which statistically is the sharpest struck date of the series with approximately 45% of the coins struck being graded as a Full Head specimen due to the sharp strikes. This coin had been dipped in an acidic solution that had been overused. I could tell this because of all of the excess silver ions contained within the overused dipping solution coated this quarter with a silver plating. This results in a glossy, oily, un-natural surface on the coin. Any numismatist worth his salt would reject this example in a heart beat. It was realistically a $75-$100 coin.
c)The 1965 Special Mint Set was acceptable by most people’s standards but it did not meet my approval for esthetic reasons. Not John Paul Sarosi, Inc.’s fault.
d)The other coins ordered were perfectly acceptable which is evidenced by the fact that I kept them.
2)For not making full refunds on returned items.
As mentioned, I returned three items on June 2nd via USPS Registered Mail. These three items were: 1) 1965 SMS for $35 2)1930 quarter for $220 and 3)1909 VDB cent for $110.
This means that I was due a refund of a maximum of $365 and a minimum refund of $315 if one subtracts the $50 coupon, which should have been prorated for my kept order of $285 which I requested. Yet, on June 18th of 2005 I only received a refund for $266.05. This is a very large discrepancy that John Paul Sarosi refused to address. Instead he cursed me and hung up the phone, twice. I shall go into detail concerning this now.
3)For extremely rude and obnoxious behavior peppered with extreme vulgarity.
Finally, after frequent checking of my online account for my credit card, I noticed the partial refund on June 24 at approximately 11:00 Pacific Standard Time. I immediately called John Paul Sarosi, Inc.’s toll free number. I was civil and I merely asked for details about why there was a discrepancy. I stated the reason why I returned the coins without malice or vulgarity. John Paul Sarosi then commenced a barrage of vulgarities that even offended me, an ex-sailor. I told him that I had not called to argue but to obtain an answer about the disputed refund. He stated that they do not refund postage. Fine, but this had nothing whatsoever to do with the discrepancy of the refunded amount. This guy continued his cursing and severe disrespect and said, upon my request for further clarification, “What!? Are you stupid or what? I told you that we do not refund postage.” He continued his swearing and then hung up on me. I called him back and was hung up on again.
I have included a copy of a thread that I started on the NGC coin forums. It gives some additional details and verifies that many other individuals have had similar experiences with this guy. Please, take action on this matter. Do not overlook it or downplay the incident. I request that severe sanctions or even expulsion from the ANA be implemented. I am also filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and with Coin World. Please keep me informed.
Sincerely,
Victor D. Easley ANA # 1205126
P.S. Copies of Original receipt and USPS Registed Mail receipt included
a)The 1909-P VDB had die overflow on the rim. This is natural.
Hello! It was a ding right on the lip of the rim below the date.
b)My name is Kathy, not Mary. He place his order on 5/10/05. As John was in the hospital with heart problems from 5/3-5/7 and had to recover from his operation, ALL CUSTOMERS from 5/4 on were told I was behind on orders, working by myself as fast as I could and ALL were told "orders I am taking now should have out to you in 3-4 weeks"> I was actually early on his order. He did not pay for Full Head on the quarter, so should not expect for the same price. The chemical analysis I do not understand.
OK. I'll give them that one. She knows her name. I never made an issue out of the timing. I never once called before or after the order was received until I noticed the improper refund amount. That was the only reason I called and if that vile, vile old fart never would have cursed me and had given me a reason for the discrepancy then this incident never would have happened. The only reason the I mentioned Full Head is to show that statistically, the 1930 usually comes strongly struck and it was not a Herculean task.
c)I did figure refund incorrectly. I seem to have credited his card with the amount he purchased, not returned. But even that does not work out correctly. I have attached my copy of his invoice. Don't know how it happened. Must have been doing mor than one thing at a time, or hit wrong buttons on calculator. In normal circustances I would apologize to customer and send him a coupon for $5.00 off his next purchase. However, in this case, I chose to do neither. I credited him $48.95.
Never ever make excuses. Your friends don't need the and your enemies won't believe you anyway!!!
d) Unless he was standing in a cave and his words came floating back to him, he heard no vulgarities on our end. I was sitting next to John when the phone call came in. Then John hung up he told me the conversation started off with "garage [embarrasing lack of self control] you sent to me" and went down hill from there. John said he never heard someone swear so much in so short of time. John said he hung up on him when his vulgarities spead to "that f...ing [embarrasing lack of self control] who works for you".
I immediately made a note to cross him off the mailing list.
I am still shaking my head in unbelief at these statements. This paragraph more than anything tells me that this bunch is the most unethical garbage that I have EVER dealt with in my life and I have encountered many squirrelly individuals in my time. The only thing that is even remotely true is that I started my conversation off with, "I would like to know why there is a discrepancy in my refund. I returned the 1909 P VDB for a severe rim ding and unnatural color when it was described as mint state 66 fiery red and the 1930 SLQ that was dipped in an overused solution... (Well, I had probably done close to $1500-2000 or more in business in the past and felt betrayed by the shiesters but my tone still was not disrespectful, just incredulous). Then JPS started a tirade of vulgarities at me. What makes sense here? Why would I go through all of the trouble of writing letters and filing complaints if I was in the wrong? I'm not as ticked off as when the incident occurred but I am still incredulous and perturbed at the audacity of the no good liars. Kathy outright lies! Well, what is to be expected? She is his niece, I understand. Her attitude has almost always been as sour as his, just more subdued.
Now, this statement really offends me! : John said he hung up on him when his vulgarities spead to "that f...ing [embarrasing lack of self control] who works for you".
I never once brought her into it. I almost did at the end of the second conversation but I held my tongue and just left the conversation in silence with an uncompleted sentence. Once the millionaire, arrogant PAN president commenced to cursing me then you bet I cussed him right back. I don't play, period. As a radiologic technologist I always provide extremely high customer/patient care and will treat all: convicts/drunks/bank presidents and millionaires the same, with respect, humor and dignity. However, if I am ever personally affronted then I will most certainly retaliate in whatever means available. I have never and will never tolerate disrespect. I will occassionally overlook some remarks but his tirade of obscenities would not and could not be ignored. What outright, blatant lies!!! As mentioned, this alone tells me the character of these unscrupulous individuals!!!
In addition, I just received another one of their mailers after I requested to be taken off of their mailing list. See, another lie of theirs. Just amazing! I'm certainly not naive by any means. I've been to over 20 countries and all fifty states, have x-rayed/cat scanned/MRI's countless tens of thousands of people but I am still amazed at this crew.
e)Although I try not to, anyone can make mistakes in addition and subtraction. I f customer had called and explained or questioned the refund amount without the negative comments and swearing he would have received immediate attention and an apology. So now, he should have his full credit $266.05 on 6/17/05 $48.95 on 7/18/05 The coupon was not allowed for the $50.00 off as only good with a $550.00 or more purchase.
We do not have a computer. We keep "cards" on customer with address, phone, comments. Before this order I had two comment on his card. One for attitude on the telephone (smart aleck) and one for cancelling an order after telephoning in as he stated "he ran out of money" a year ago.
Sincerely,
Kathy Sarosi Vice President
That is exactly what I tried to do in the first place! Duh, you morons. It was because of John Paul Sarosi's arrogance and attempted intimidation tactics that cause this situation to flare up in the first place. Just read some of the comments on this site and the PCGS thread (http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=354560&highlight_key=y&keyword1=Sarosi) about his phone manners and arrogance. He tries to bully anyone and any situation that doesn't go his way. You may be tempted to say the same thing about me but this is a whole different set of circumstances.
And, no computers? What comment could I ever offer about this backward behavior?
And, little index cards noting behavior? OK, third grade is dismissed. This was the first time that I had ever spoken to "the man", himself. I had always dealt with Kathy the three or four times in the past that I had placed an order with them. She was always curt and bordered on rude. But, the bottom line is the product so I overlooked their behavior and once attempted to joke with her. So, I'm labeled a "smart aleck" for it. Oh well. Waaaah! Too bad, so sad.
And I did cancel an order when I terminated an assignment and funds were low and it took their usual 3-6 weeks to make good on it.
So, that's it. This summs up my experience with A Tale of Two Boneheads
-------------------- The last of the human freedoms is to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances. Viktor E. Franki
The last of the human freedoms is to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances. Viktor E. Frankl
EZ_E/Victor/Mr.Yuk: lover of prehistoric, megabeast-sized canines. EVP
Her attitude has almost always been as sour as his, just more subdued.
I had always dealt with Kathy the three or four times in the past that I had placed an order with them. She was always curt and bordered on rude. -----------------
Thanks for all your anecdotes. It seems that there are precious few multi-page Coin World or Numismatic News advertisers to be trusted. John Paul Sarosi's testimonials seem to put him in a league with his peers Coast to Coast Coins, Paul Sims, The Coin Depot, Skyline, Harold Weitz, Midas Coins and those who occasionally put an insert in your gasoline credit card bills. I've had better luck buying raw coins from strangers on eBay when I can afford to gamble.
I don't quite agree with the statement that the size of the Coin World ad is inversely proportional to the quality, since there are still some high end dealers advertising prominently there. (My all-time best coin was from a full-page CW ad from Alpine/David Olmstead, and I have been burned by those paying for a small classified ad in the back). Still, there are precious few dealers advertising raw coins of quality in print, and these don't advertise coins at bargain prices.
"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's Razor
Is it possible that there are a disproportionate percentage of people with suspect business practice and ethics in the wonderful world of Coin Dealing?
No, never have and I'll tell the whole world why. This Kathy, I believe it was, had the most pissy attitude I have ever encountered. She was like a sullen female bear.
I had and still have no desire to work with people that treat their customers in this fashion and after reading all the typical horror stories I actually should thank her for sparing me wasted postage.
I cannot stand dealers with piss ant attitudes and that sell overgraded raw pieces.... and that's that !
I was at a PAN show last year and overheard people working at Sarosi's table being curt and testy with a customer.
I was a bit shocked as this was my first exposure to them. It seemed strange as all I knew was that they organized the PAN show.
Funny how it all makes sense when you hear of others experiences. Just because someone appears to be in a position of authority does not mean they can be trusted.
<< <i>If they're this bad, then why do Coinworld and NN continue to accept their ads. >>
Rude customer service and the inability to accurately grade coins is not going to motivate Coin World into turning down $50.000 a year in advertising revenue.
The only complaints Coin World or NN would need to act on is if the advertiser wasn't delivering a product that was purchased, i.e., criminal fraud, (fact).
Accurate gradeing (opinion) or politeness (opinion) isn't required to buy full page ads. Money talks.
In a sense, accepting advertising from any dealer compromises the ability of a periodical to act as a watchdog. I'm sure the CW folks can give us a hundred reasons why that isn't true. Whether it's true or not may be less important than the public perception, which I think anyone who's read this thread can gauge for themselves.
<< <i>No, never have and I'll tell the whole world why. This Kathy, I believe it was, had the most pissy attitude I have ever encountered. She was like a sullen female bear.
I had and still have no desire to work with people that treat their customers in this fashion and after reading all the typical horror stories I actually should thank her for sparing me wasted postage.
I cannot stand dealers with piss ant attitudes and that sell overgraded raw pieces.... and that's that ! >>
This Kathy whoever it is needs to be told right to her face. Shut your stupid facehole.
Could you tell me how I can tell a coin has been cleaned? I can tell obvious stuff, like there are tarnished spots around the edges of lettering, etc., while the rest is "AU" but how do you tell otherwise? I once sent in what I thought was an XF Morgan to PCGS that came back as "cleaned" and I don't think they graded it, but it surprised me, so I know I don't know how to make fine distinctions on that and would appreciate any help.
Never had the pleasure of dealing with JPS but have dealt with three of the other "big ad" dealers in CW. The only time I ever got bit was on a 1917 Type 1 SLQ. It had been cleaned but for $79, at the time, I kept it anyway. After that I knew what to expect from the big ad guys. The one I have never had problems with is the one out of Greenville, SC. All my experiences with them have been positive.
"Im not young enough to know everything." Oscar Wilde
Collect for the love of the hobby, the beauty of the coins, and enjoy the ride.
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
seen 'em in action at the P.A.N. Show and on both sides of the Ohio-Pennsylvania border. they buy like Littleton and sell like Ken Pines, so what's that tell you?? go ahead and ask kranky to tell you the "Four Wheeled Cart" story!!
Only bought a few raw MS "V" nickels from them in "MS64" when I restarted collecting back in the early 1990's.
The coins were nice enough, they looked MS, and as the set is at the bank, and I have not looked at it in years, I really can't tell if they were acurately graded or not. Their service was adequate as I remember.
Have not bought from them again since then...which is because I did have a repressed ill feeling about them, or they just don't offer material suitable for my collection. After reading the above posts, it must have been the former.
Edited to Add:
My cob-webs have been cleared; I remembered why I stopped using him: I returned a coin I didn't like and I had to call his company numerous times over the course of many weeks asking for the refund check. It seemed as though only the owner could sign checks. Lousy customer service doesn't get many repeat customers !
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
Reading this post about the infamous John Paul Sarosi, dragged up from over a year ago, puts me in mind of my favorite JPS story which I will recount here. If I have told this story before on this forum, I shall not apologize, as I think it is appropriate to remind people of this dealer's severe lack of customer service skills in an attempt to avoid similar incidents in the future.
At a large national coin show a couple of years ago, a good friend and fellow Bust collector made the unfortunate choice to stop at the Sarosi table to check out his Bust dime offerings. My friend looked at several early dimes, and finding one of interest, he refered to the Bust dime book to confirm an attribution before making the purchase. Upon seeing this, JPS blew into a rage, and threatened that he did not like those "@#$!& variety collectors", and told him in no uncertain terms that he was not welcome at his table. My friend, not seeking any confrontation, immediately complied, stood up and left his table. Not content to have made his point, JPS started yelling loudly that he did not like "@#$!& variety collectors at his table, trying to cherrypick him". His tyraid grew more vehement in nature as my friend simply walked away, not responding to his insults. It grew so loud that it attracted the attention of the show promoters and security, who were forced to admonish JPS that if his foul language did not cease, they would be forced to remove him from the bourse floor. He continued to sputter and fume for a long time after the incident had occured, prompting several of us to stop by his table to inform him that, as "@#$!& variety collectors", we, too, would no longer darken his doorstep nor reward him with our business. This reminder of lost business continued throughout the several days of the show, and for several days afterward via telephone, using his nationally advertised 800 number.
My friend is acutely aware of the rules of bourse etiquette, and was not covering the dealer's table with books, nor wasting his time attempting to 'cherrypick' him. He was merely pursuing his hobby by collecting Bust dimes by die marriage and by die state. He was seeking to make a purchase from the dealer, and for that, he was publicly insulted by this arrogant and contemptuous dealer who seems intent to drive potential collectors away from his table.
From the many posts on this and similar threads, collectors are left to make their own decisions on the worthiness of Mr. JPS. For myself and many other "@#$!& variety collectors" that choice is an easy one.
They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Funny story--$%^& collectors-- first mint marks, now this variety sh#t!---Actually it sounds like this guy has a bad alcohol problem or something doesn't it?
Thanks MrHalfDime! I remember you posted something similar a while ago, but I agree that a refresher is in order. JPS will not be a dealer with whom I do business.
I am filled with joy at finding this thread. I googled John Paul Sarosi after having an out-of- world encounter with him yesterday. My purpose in calling him was to ask some questions about some coins he had advertised in CW, and I don't know what his purpose was, but there was such a neural disconnect between what I thought he was doing - selling coins - and what he was accomplishing - which was convincing me of his complete inability to communicate about anything numismatic, and convincing me that I should NEVER spend $600 -$1000 with him, that I felt like I was on another planet. I googled him in an effort to reassure myself I hadn't had an unconscious bout of coprolalia while I was on the phone with him. I am not a hot head or flamer, and I was calling with a few questions about a key date Walker I was interested in, then some other coins, but every sentence I said to him was met with belligerence, hostility, and then when I said I didn't understand what was the problem and asked him to explain to me what caused him to respond to my questions with the attitude he had, he hung up on me. Well thank you much JPS for not leading me down the not-so- rosy path of doing business with you. I can't recreate the conversation, it was so nonsensical, and took me completely by surprise, but I started by asking him about the coin, whether there were toning or other problems, and he accused me of trying for a higher grade, and I said I was only looking for a fairly graded, no problem coin. I asked him if he had a website where I could view the coin, he didn't, and he said "You mean you have to see a circulated coin?", and I said I try to see all the coins I collect before I buy them, didn't he?, but that I was wlling to buy sight unseen if he could assure me of his return privilege if I didn't like it. I asked him if he still had the coin, and this is where he said I was too much trouble, and hung up on me. I am so pleased others share the same perception of this being. He has not passed on of heart failure, but he doesn't sound like he's feeling well. I may write more later. mike
"If someone says 'A penny for your thoughts' and you give them your 2 cents worth, what happens to the extra penny?" G.Carlin
<< <i>Hey stephunter, The 1942 D over Horizontal D Jefferson was the coin I had been looking at and thinking about buying until I got all these negative responses about this dealer. They also had several other key date Jefferson nickels listed. I wonder if anyone on the forum took a chance and bought the 1942 D over Horizontal D coins? >>
Ive have quite a few set back I bought in the last 3 years or so, as has another forum member. We did not however, purchase them from JPS
In my opinion, based on my own experiences and reading this forum, any of the Coin World advertisers with two pages or more of "great deals" should be avoided. My tries with some of these vendors years ago were that coins were overgraded and usually cleaned or had other problems.
This is just a general opinion I have at this point, but I have never specifically dealt with JPS, Inc.
-Bob collections: Maryland related coins & exonumia, 7070 Type set, and Video Arcade Tokens. The Low Budget Y2K Registry Set
<< <i>In my opinion, based on my own experiences and reading this forum, any of the Coin World advertisers with two pages or more of "great deals" should be avoided. >>
Notice all of their coins are raw? They're raw for a reason.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>I have dealt with JPS for years witout a problem and this has all been done at coin shows one on one. I have never had a bad experience. Kathy is John's Niece and yes a coinworld ad is darn expensive. For all of you who are complaining about shipping time remember this, It takes time for your check to arrive, be processed, go to the bank and clear, pack the order and post it. Some checks take up to ten days and i do a lot of mail order. We process most orders in two weeks or less in my shop and it is a frantic pace. The one thing that does waste a lot of time is a customer who calls every day to see if his package has shipped starting on third day after he mails the check. This happens all the time! >>
But that does not excuse all the crap that they foist on buyers, most whom are inexperienced and/or first-timers.
I figured out within 10 seconds of meeting JPS that I would never do any business with his organization. When I went to my first PAN show (October 2004) I had a few coins to sell. I asked him if he wanted to take a look and offered the coins to him. Amongst the coins I offered were a couple of old ANACS slabs. As soon as he saw them he very rudely and loudly informed me that "We don't touch that garbage."
If a dealer chooses not to deal in slabs from certain companies that is his business. I can't and wouldn't complain about that. However, when a dealer chooses to express that preference in an offensive and unprofessional manner he can forget about ever seeing dime one from me.
Wow, 2 postive feedbacks out of about 90 replies. That would make ebay proud.
I learned the tale of the Coin World double page ad back in the 70's. The ads with the cheesy B&W photos are the ones you should really stay away from.....because those aren't the coins you'll be getting.
I recall Aurora Coin used to have double page ads and I frequented them a number of times with good results.
Interesting thread. He must have been the one at Long Beach (maybe in Sep '02 or Sep '03) that had a collector show him some slabbed coins for an opinion on how they looked. He threw the coins down on his table after barely a glance and said they all sucked. Thank goodness the coins were in slabs! How this a-hole still gets ANY business is beyond me.
Maybe the only good thing that can be said about this dork is that he couldn't possibly have the patience to be a conniving coin doctor...
The problem with dealers like this is that they know that there are 6 billion people out there and that only 20 of them know anything about coins! Most purchases in this hobby only take a few seconds. Most folks see a coin they like, ask for the price and pay it out. The percent of true coin collectors must be very low when compared with the number of dealers who actually have the patience to deal with them.
If you'd ask me, that doesn't make any sense!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Comments
When I decided to work on a long dormant set of Liberty Head nickels back in 1991, I ordered about a half dozen MS 64 raw coins from them. All the coins seemed quite nice at the time, but could have been one point overgraded. Regardless, I kept them. I didn't have any problems with their service then, but over the years since then, I have not reordered as I don't buy raw coins anymore.
Their ads in Coin World every week must have cost a fortune over the years, so they must be selling a high enough volume to cover their expenses.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i>
<< <i>Bought once, sent it back immediately with a promise they'd never hear from me again. That was 1994... and I've kept my promise. >>
I, too, stay away from these folks like the plague!
Crappy service and Rude & Arrogant to boot! >>
Pot, kettle, black!!!
it wasn't the most positive either.
<< <i>I have dealt with JPS for years witout a problem and this has all been done at coin shows one on one. I have never had a bad experience. Kathy is John's Niece and yes a coinworld ad is darn expensive. For all of you who are complaining about shipping time remember this, It takes time for your check to arrive, be processed, go to the bank and clear, pack the order and post it. Some checks take up to ten days and i do a lot of mail order. We process most orders in two weeks or less in my shop and it is a frantic pace. The one thing that does waste a lot of time is a customer who calls every day to see if his package has shipped starting on third day after he mails the check. This happens all the time! >>
What you're pointing out is the obvious...buying coins in person is a different experience then blindly accepting what an advertisement says. This way, you can see what they're selling is total crap or not like much of their advertisement stock seems to be. Keep in mind something else, I've heard this many times from dealers that they leave their crap "at home" for the mail order business and bring the good stuff to the shows. Their ads along raise a major red flag as to the shiesters they've proven themselves to be so many times to many of us. There are a number of advertisers where you can actually believe what their ad says and trust what they'll send you is as stated in the ad and over the phone (and YES, they'll actually talk to you about the coin over the phone unlike these JPS coin dealer hucksters).
<< <i>I bought from them once in my early coin collecting days. Returned an overgraded cleaned lincoln. >>
I bought from them once in my early coin collecting days. Returned an overgraded cleaned $10 Indian Eagle.
jom
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A little follow-up info of my complaint sent to the ANA and the BBB:
Complaint against John Paul Sarosi, Inc.
I, Victor D. Easley, am lodging a three-fold complaint against John Paul Sarosi specifically and John Paul Sarosi, Inc. in general.
1)For advertising blatantly overgraded and misrepresented items.
2)For not making full refunds on returned items.
3)For extremely rude and obnoxious behavior peppered with extreme vulgarity.
I placed an order the first week of May for $650 with John Paul Sarosi, Inc. I was told that it would take three weeks to fulfill the order. That was fine. When I did receive the order on June 2nd, three of the seven items ordered were completely unacceptable. I returned the three items via registered mail (#RR290880266US) on June 2, 2005. I then received a partial refund on June 18, 2005. Details to follow.
This was my order:
1 1965 SMS set w/ cameo 50C $35.00
1 1030 P 25C SLQ MS-64 $220.00
1 1909 VDB 1C MS 66 RED $110.00
1 1964 50C Kennedy PR 67 Cameo $79.00
1 1999 Dolly Madison $ BU $55.00
1 1997 Jackie Robinson $ PR $83.00
1 1996 Smithsonian $ PR $68.00
_________
$650.00
Minus a coupon for $50 off orders over $500 = $600.00
Now each of the three complaints shall be addressed in more detail:
1)For advertising blatantly overgraded and misrepresented items.
I am a senior numismatist who has invested hundreds of hours in the study, reading and discussion of coins. In addition, I have attended the ANA Official Coin Grading Seminar. So, the following opinions are tempered with knowledge.
a)The 1909 VDB cent was advertised as “MS-66 Fiery Mint State Red”.
The pricing structure will often give hints of the true nature of a coin. A true MS 66 RED coin brings from $250-$300 in today’s market. So, I knew that with a price tag of $110 that this advertised coin was not truly a 66 but, I had hoped, would be a very nice, original MS 65 RED example. When received, I was sorely disappointed. It not only was an ugly, unoriginal coin but there was a huge rim disturbance immediately below the date. The fact that is was a damaged and unoriginal example of this coinage type would result in this coin being rejected for certification by the leading Third Party Grading Services. In reality, this was a $25 coin.
b)The 1930 Standing Liberty Quarter would also have been rejected to be graded by the leading Third Party Grading Services.
Upon placement of my order, I requested from Mary Sarosi to have a sharply struck mint state example for my type collection. I additionally stated that I would pay a premium for a top example. She and John Paul Sarosi, Inc. took a full three weeks to fulfill this order which should have provided sufficient time to obtain the request example. Yet, when I received my example in the mail, it was also a problem coin which would have been rejected by any numismatist with the least bit of knowledge. It was a 1930 dated example which statistically is the sharpest struck date of the series with approximately 45% of the coins struck being graded as a Full Head specimen due to the sharp strikes. This coin had been dipped in an acidic solution that had been overused. I could tell this because of all of the excess silver ions contained within the overused dipping solution coated this quarter with a silver plating. This results in a glossy, oily, un-natural surface on the coin. Any numismatist worth his salt would reject this example in a heart beat. It was realistically a $75-$100 coin.
c)The 1965 Special Mint Set was acceptable by most people’s standards but it did not meet my approval for esthetic reasons. Not John Paul Sarosi, Inc.’s fault.
d)The other coins ordered were perfectly acceptable which is evidenced by the fact that I kept them.
2)For not making full refunds on returned items.
As mentioned, I returned three items on June 2nd via USPS Registered Mail. These three items were: 1) 1965 SMS for $35 2)1930 quarter for $220 and 3)1909 VDB cent for $110.
This means that I was due a refund of a maximum of $365 and a minimum refund of $315 if one subtracts the $50 coupon, which should have been prorated for my kept order of $285 which I requested. Yet, on June 18th of 2005 I only received a refund for $266.05. This is a very large discrepancy that John Paul Sarosi refused to address. Instead he cursed me and hung up the phone, twice. I shall go into detail concerning this now.
3)For extremely rude and obnoxious behavior peppered with extreme vulgarity.
Finally, after frequent checking of my online account for my credit card, I noticed the partial refund on June 24 at approximately 11:00 Pacific Standard Time. I immediately called John Paul Sarosi, Inc.’s toll free number. I was civil and I merely asked for details about why there was a discrepancy. I stated the reason why I returned the coins without malice or vulgarity. John Paul Sarosi then commenced a barrage of vulgarities that even offended me, an ex-sailor. I told him that I had not called to argue but to obtain an answer about the disputed refund. He stated that they do not refund postage. Fine, but this had nothing whatsoever to do with the discrepancy of the refunded amount. This guy continued his cursing and severe disrespect and said, upon my request for further clarification, “What!? Are you stupid or what? I told you that we do not refund postage.” He continued his swearing and then hung up on me. I called him back and was hung up on again.
I have included a copy of a thread that I started on the NGC coin forums. It gives some additional details and verifies that many other individuals have had similar experiences with this guy. Please, take action on this matter. Do not overlook it or downplay the incident. I request that severe sanctions or even expulsion from the ANA be implemented. I am also filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and with Coin World. Please keep me informed.
Sincerely,
Victor D. Easley
ANA # 1205126
P.S. Copies of Original receipt and USPS Registed Mail receipt included
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gee, Disney writes better fiction that this!
July 19, 2004
a)The 1909-P VDB had die overflow on the rim. This is natural.
Hello! It was a ding right on the lip of the rim below the date.
b)My name is Kathy, not Mary. He place his order on 5/10/05. As John was in the hospital with heart problems from 5/3-5/7 and had to recover from his operation, ALL CUSTOMERS from 5/4 on were told I was behind on orders, working by myself as fast as I could and ALL were told "orders I am taking now should have out to you in 3-4 weeks"> I was actually early on his order. He did not pay for Full Head on the quarter, so should not expect for the same price. The chemical analysis I do not understand.
OK. I'll give them that one. She knows her name. I never made an issue out of the timing. I never once called before or after the order was received until I noticed the improper refund amount. That was the only reason I called and if that vile, vile old fart never would have cursed me and had given me a reason for the discrepancy then this incident never would have happened. The only reason the I mentioned Full Head is to show that statistically, the 1930 usually comes strongly struck and it was not a Herculean task.
c)I did figure refund incorrectly. I seem to have credited his card with the amount he purchased, not returned. But even that does not work out correctly. I have attached my copy of his invoice. Don't know how it happened. Must have been doing mor than one thing at a time, or hit wrong buttons on calculator. In normal circustances I would apologize to customer and send him a coupon for $5.00 off his next purchase. However, in this case, I chose to do neither. I credited him $48.95.
Never ever make excuses. Your friends don't need the and your enemies won't believe you anyway!!!
d) Unless he was standing in a cave and his words came floating back to him, he heard no vulgarities on our end. I was sitting next to John when the phone call came in. Then John hung up he told me the conversation started off with "garage [embarrasing lack of self control] you sent to me" and went down hill from there. John said he never heard someone swear so much in so short of time. John said he hung up on him when his vulgarities spead to "that f...ing [embarrasing lack of self control] who works for you".
I immediately made a note to cross him off the mailing list.
I am still shaking my head in unbelief at these statements. This paragraph more than anything tells me that this bunch is the most unethical garbage that I have EVER dealt with in my life and I have encountered many squirrelly individuals in my time. The only thing that is even remotely true is that I started my conversation off with, "I would like to know why there is a discrepancy in my refund. I returned the 1909 P VDB for a severe rim ding and unnatural color when it was described as mint state 66 fiery red and the 1930 SLQ that was dipped in an overused solution... (Well, I had probably done close to $1500-2000 or more in business in the past and felt betrayed by the shiesters but my tone still was not disrespectful, just incredulous). Then JPS started a tirade of vulgarities at me. What makes sense here? Why would I go through all of the trouble of writing letters and filing complaints if I was in the wrong? I'm not as ticked off as when the incident occurred but I am still incredulous and perturbed at the audacity of the no good liars. Kathy outright lies! Well, what is to be expected? She is his niece, I understand. Her attitude has almost always been as sour as his, just more subdued.
Now, this statement really offends me! : John said he hung up on him when his vulgarities spead to "that f...ing [embarrasing lack of self control] who works for you".
I never once brought her into it. I almost did at the end of the second conversation but I held my tongue and just left the conversation in silence with an uncompleted sentence. Once the millionaire, arrogant PAN president commenced to cursing me then you bet I cussed him right back. I don't play, period. As a radiologic technologist I always provide extremely high customer/patient care and will treat all: convicts/drunks/bank presidents and millionaires the same, with respect, humor and dignity. However, if I am ever personally affronted then I will most certainly retaliate in whatever means available. I have never and will never tolerate disrespect. I will occassionally overlook some remarks but his tirade of obscenities would not and could not be ignored. What outright, blatant lies!!! As mentioned, this alone tells me the character of these unscrupulous individuals!!!
In addition, I just received another one of their mailers after I requested to be taken off of their mailing list. See, another lie of theirs. Just amazing! I'm certainly not naive by any means. I've been to over 20 countries and all fifty states, have x-rayed/cat scanned/MRI's countless tens of thousands of people but I am still amazed at this crew.
e)Although I try not to, anyone can make mistakes in addition and subtraction. I f customer had called and explained or questioned the refund amount without the negative comments and swearing he would have received immediate attention and an apology.
So now, he should have his full credit $266.05 on 6/17/05
$48.95 on 7/18/05
The coupon was not allowed for the $50.00 off as only good with a $550.00 or more purchase.
We do not have a computer. We keep "cards" on customer with address, phone, comments. Before this order I had two comment on his card. One for attitude on the telephone (smart aleck) and one for cancelling an order after telephoning in as he stated "he ran out of money" a year ago.
Sincerely,
Kathy Sarosi
Vice President
That is exactly what I tried to do in the first place! Duh, you morons. It was because of John Paul Sarosi's arrogance and attempted intimidation tactics that cause this situation to flare up in the first place. Just read some of the comments on this site and the PCGS thread (http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=354560&highlight_key=y&keyword1=Sarosi) about his phone manners and arrogance. He tries to bully anyone and any situation that doesn't go his way. You may be tempted to say the same thing about me but this is a whole different set of circumstances.
And, no computers? What comment could I ever offer about this backward behavior?
And, little index cards noting behavior? OK, third grade is dismissed. This was the first time that I had ever spoken to "the man", himself. I had always dealt with Kathy the three or four times in the past that I had placed an order with them. She was always curt and bordered on rude. But, the bottom line is the product so I overlooked their behavior and once attempted to joke with her. So, I'm labeled a "smart aleck" for it. Oh well. Waaaah! Too bad, so sad.
And I did cancel an order when I terminated an assignment and funds were low and it took their usual 3-6 weeks to make good on it.
So, that's it. This summs up my experience with A Tale of Two Boneheads
--------------------
The last of the human freedoms is to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances. Viktor E. Franki
EZ_E/Victor/Mr.Yuk: lover of prehistoric, megabeast-sized canines. EVP
I had always dealt with Kathy the three or four times in the past that I had placed an order with them. She was always curt and bordered on rude. -----------------
I had a similar experience-rymes with "rich".
I don't quite agree with the statement that the size of the Coin World ad is inversely proportional to the quality, since there are still some high end dealers advertising prominently there. (My all-time best coin was from a full-page CW ad from Alpine/David Olmstead, and I have been burned by those paying for a small classified ad in the back). Still, there are precious few dealers advertising raw coins of quality in print, and these don't advertise coins at bargain prices.
I had and still have no desire to work with people that treat their customers in this fashion and after reading all the typical horror stories I actually should thank her for sparing me wasted postage.
I cannot stand dealers with piss ant attitudes and that sell overgraded raw pieces.... and that's that !
They prey on newbies/the uninformed/the too good to be true folks.
with a customer.
I was a bit shocked as this was my first exposure to them. It seemed strange as
all I knew was that they organized the PAN show.
Funny how it all makes sense when you hear of others experiences. Just because someone appears
to be in a position of authority does not mean they can be trusted.
the more questionable the ethics of the dealer.
I don't know why this is, it just is.
Camelot
<< <i>If they're this bad, then why do Coinworld and NN continue to accept their ads. >>
Rude customer service and the inability to accurately grade coins is not going to motivate Coin World into turning down $50.000 a year in advertising revenue.
The only complaints Coin World or NN would need to act on is if the advertiser wasn't delivering a product that was purchased, i.e., criminal fraud, (fact).
Accurate gradeing (opinion) or politeness (opinion) isn't required to buy full page ads. Money talks.
<< <i>No, never have and I'll tell the whole world why. This Kathy, I believe it was, had the most pissy attitude I have ever encountered. She was like a sullen female bear.
I had and still have no desire to work with people that treat their customers in this fashion and after reading all the typical horror stories I actually should thank her for sparing me wasted postage.
I cannot stand dealers with piss ant attitudes and that sell overgraded raw pieces.... and that's that !
This Kathy whoever it is needs to be told right to her face. Shut your stupid facehole.
Jerry
and paid for it with a good check, Coin World
will print the ad. This paper has no shame. They
only delets an advertiser when they dont get paid.
Camelot
Oscar Wilde
Collect for the love of the hobby, the beauty of the coins, and enjoy the ride.
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Only bought a few raw MS "V" nickels from them in "MS64" when I restarted collecting back in the early 1990's.
The coins were nice enough, they looked MS, and as the set is at the bank, and I have not looked at it in years, I really can't tell if they were acurately graded or not. Their service was adequate as I remember.
Have not bought from them again since then...which is because I did have a repressed ill feeling about them, or they just don't offer material suitable for my collection. After reading the above posts, it must have been the former.
Edited to Add:
My cob-webs have been cleared; I remembered why I stopped using him: I returned a coin I didn't like and I had to call his company numerous times over the course of many weeks asking for the refund check. It seemed as though only the owner could sign checks. Lousy customer service doesn't get many repeat customers !
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
At a large national coin show a couple of years ago, a good friend and fellow Bust collector made the unfortunate choice to stop at the Sarosi table to check out his Bust dime offerings. My friend looked at several early dimes, and finding one of interest, he refered to the Bust dime book to confirm an attribution before making the purchase. Upon seeing this, JPS blew into a rage, and threatened that he did not like those "@#$!& variety collectors", and told him in no uncertain terms that he was not welcome at his table. My friend, not seeking any confrontation, immediately complied, stood up and left his table. Not content to have made his point, JPS started yelling loudly that he did not like "@#$!& variety collectors at his table, trying to cherrypick him". His tyraid grew more vehement in nature as my friend simply walked away, not responding to his insults. It grew so loud that it attracted the attention of the show promoters and security, who were forced to admonish JPS that if his foul language did not cease, they would be forced to remove him from the bourse floor. He continued to sputter and fume for a long time after the incident had occured, prompting several of us to stop by his table to inform him that, as "@#$!& variety collectors", we, too, would no longer darken his doorstep nor reward him with our business. This reminder of lost business continued throughout the several days of the show, and for several days afterward via telephone, using his nationally advertised 800 number.
My friend is acutely aware of the rules of bourse etiquette, and was not covering the dealer's table with books, nor wasting his time attempting to 'cherrypick' him. He was merely pursuing his hobby by collecting Bust dimes by die marriage and by die state. He was seeking to make a purchase from the dealer, and for that, he was publicly insulted by this arrogant and contemptuous dealer who seems intent to drive potential collectors away from his table.
From the many posts on this and similar threads, collectors are left to make their own decisions on the worthiness of Mr. JPS. For myself and many other "@#$!& variety collectors" that choice is an easy one.
mcgrover, interesting report. Thanks for your post
Have fun, enjoy!
KJ
<< <i>Hey stephunter, The 1942 D over Horizontal D Jefferson was the coin I had been looking at and thinking about buying until I got all these negative responses about this dealer. They also had several other key date Jefferson nickels listed. I wonder if anyone on the forum took a chance and bought the 1942 D over Horizontal D coins? >>
Ive have quite a few set back I bought in the last 3 years or so, as has another forum member. We did not however, purchase them from JPS
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
This is just a general opinion I have at this point, but I have never specifically dealt with JPS, Inc.
collections: Maryland related coins & exonumia, 7070 Type set, and Video Arcade Tokens.
The Low Budget Y2K Registry Set
<< <i>In my opinion, based on my own experiences and reading this forum, any of the Coin World advertisers with two pages or more of "great deals" should be avoided. >>
Notice all of their coins are raw? They're raw for a reason.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Heck, they are so bad that they would make me look like a Prince!
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>I have dealt with JPS for years witout a problem and this has all been done at coin shows one on one. I have never had a bad experience. Kathy is John's Niece and yes a coinworld ad is darn expensive. For all of you who are complaining about shipping time remember this, It takes time for your check to arrive, be processed, go to the bank and clear, pack the order and post it. Some checks take up to ten days and i do a lot of mail order. We process most orders in two weeks or less in my shop and it is a frantic pace. The one thing that does waste a lot of time is a customer who calls every day to see if his package has shipped starting on third day after he mails the check. This happens all the time! >>
But that does not excuse all the crap that they foist on buyers, most whom are inexperienced and/or first-timers.
If a dealer chooses not to deal in slabs from certain companies that is his business. I can't and wouldn't complain about that. However, when a dealer chooses to express that preference in an offensive and unprofessional manner he can forget about ever seeing dime one from me.
I learned the tale of the Coin World double page ad back in the 70's.
The ads with the cheesy B&W photos are the ones you should really stay away from.....because those aren't the coins you'll be getting.
I recall Aurora Coin used to have double page ads and I frequented them a number of times with good results.
roadrunner
Maybe the only good thing that can be said about this dork is that he couldn't possibly have the patience to be a conniving coin doctor...
Or could he?
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
mcgrover!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
"Anybody in their Right Mind Ever Bought From CoinWorld Dealer John Paul Sarosi, Inc.?
If you'd ask me, that doesn't make any sense!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection