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OF THE TWO...which service? ICG or ANACS?...poll

topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
Leaving out the big two, which do you prefer?
«1

Comments

  • dthigpendthigpen Posts: 3,932 ✭✭
    ANACS, no question.
  • ttownttown Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭
    ANACS, I love to buy these coins at the prices they bring. A real bargin and as good as PCGS or NGC IMO. Of course you have to look at any coin before buying it no matter who graded it.
  • What I don't understand is that the CCDN has ICG index for sight-unseen coins on par with PCGS and NGC (roughly 85%) whereas ANACS lags. Perhaps the coins in the index are not a good sample of the overall market.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,930 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You can rip more ANACS coins because they frequently undergrade. So as a buyer, I'd prefer sight seen ANACS coins. But as a submitter/seller, ICG is probably the better choice.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.


  • << <i>ANACS, I love to buy these coins at the prices they bring. A real bargin and as good as PCGS or NGC IMO. Of course you have to look at any coin before buying it no matter who graded it. >>



    I agree. ANACS seems to grade Morgans fairly tightly, and I generally can get them at prices lower than comparably graded NGC and PCGS coins. Of course I'm talking the knuckle-dragger $75-$300 per coin market that I buy in.
  • ANACS no question. Now if they switched to an SEGS or ICG type slab they would be even better in my opinion.

  • ANACS. I just had two submissions back at my door within 3 weeks and I was very pleased with the service and strict grading.

    Cameron Kiefer
  • ANACS by far.

    Though I have to admit, I like those ICG slabs.
  • ICG hands down if we are talking about grading accuracy and consistency. The posters here seem to be focusing on making a buck by cracking out an ANACS coin. A recent Greysheet (Coin Dealer Newsletter) using statistical analysis and no emotion has published their coin indicator for sight unseen bid levels. Here is how they recently ranked:
    ICG-84.94%
    NGC-83.32%
    PCGS-82.96%
    ANACS-56.22%
    PCI-54.37
    SEGS-52.64%
    NCI-32.41%
    Reading the ICG (Independent Coin Grading Co.) contract and warranty I admire they don't allow any ownership by coin dealers like PCGS and NGC do. But that is why they don't grade as many coins, no big supply by mega dealers. No employee allowed to make markets in coins. Coins that are submitted must first go to an independent third party so graders don't know who it came from-no pressure. Each coin is examined by three graders. I like their independence and ratings! I might say I have also seen fine work by ANACS.
    Satisfaction lies in the effort, not in the attainment. Full effort is full victory. -Gandhi
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,760 ✭✭✭✭
    The people have spoken!

    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,387 ✭✭✭
    Well, I place little faith in the CDN percentages you cited. Especially since the numbers could be used to say many different things. In the end, the marketplace seems to have chosen the winners. And there are those who would question ICG's accuracy and consistency.
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    Actually, getting in late to this thread since it was ttt'd by a reply...as a buyer/collector of sight unseen coins, above MS-65, I'l take ANACS by a million miles. For mint state coins in general, even below 66, still ANACS though in lower MS grades ICG's grading isn't as liberal as it is above 65. In circulated grades, it's mostly a wash. In AU-58 specifically, I'll take ICG. ICG's 58s are, on average, the nicest coins among the Big Four in that grade, IMO (and the ANACS 58s aren't far behind, though, usually).
  • rainbowroosierainbowroosie Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭✭
    For 64 and below, I really like ANACS.
    "You keep your 1804 dollar and 1822 half eagle -- give me rainbow roosies in MS68."
    rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,515 ✭✭✭


    << <i>ICG hands down if we are talking about grading accuracy and consistency. >>



    image

    Russ, NCNE
  • This was an easy one.....ANACS for me.
  • darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭
    ICG-84.94%
    NGC-83.32%
    PCGS-82.96%
    ANACS-56.22%
    PCI-54.37
    SEGS-52.64%
    NCI-32.41%
      Does this little chart really mean anything? NCI?- when the last time you seen enough NCI coins to make any kind of meaningful survey? If I understand what these numbers are supposed to mean( I kind of dought if the guy that writes them even knows what the heck it means?) I believe the percent# is how much they bring price-wise compared to the published numbers? So you really can't make a meaningful comparrison when each one has a seperate price index can you? Meaningless in my eyes unless I am understanding something wrong? mike image
    • MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777
      ICG hands down if we are talking about grading accuracy and consistency.

      For what series are you talking about??
      My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
    • HTubbsHTubbs Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭
      ANACS all the way!
    • PrethenPrethen Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭
      Oh, pullleeeeaaasse! ICG--------Hands Down!

      What planet is everyone one from on this thread? ANACS vs ICG? If you ignore the controversy over all that modern MS69/70 and PR69/70 stuff, ICG is very accurate and very tough when it comes to giving a real grade to a coin. Have you seen JP Martin's video on grading Mint State coins (he's their senior numismatist/grader and one bright cookie)? He explains the differences of technical versus market grading in some detail and goes on to illustrate exactly what is meant.

      I have a couple of ANACS coins and, yes, I'm happy with the grade, but overall the ICG quality of their slabs and consistent quality grading take the cake on this one. And, a big YES, to the fact that these guys (ICG) will at some time, if not soon, give PCGS and NGC a run for their money.

      [Okay, I probably made some enemies for sure now...sorry if the above seemed a bit too passionate!]
    • No enemies but it does mean something when every other person (including dealers and die hard collectors) say ANACS hands down.

      Cameron Kiefer
    • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,074 ✭✭✭✭✭


      << <i>Oh, pullleeeeaaasse! ICG--------Hands Down! What planet is everyone one from on this thread? ANACS vs ICG? If you ignore the controversy over all that modern MS69/70 and PR69/70 stuff, ICG is very accurate and very tough when it comes to giving a real grade to a coin. Have you seen JP Martin's video on grading Mint State coins (he's their senior numismatist/grader and one bright cookie)? He explains the differences of technical versus market grading in some detail and goes on to illustrate exactly what is meant. I have a couple of ANACS coins and, yes, I'm happy with the grade, but overall the ICG quality of their slabs and consistent quality grading take the cake on this one. And, a big YES, to the fact that these guys (ICG) will at some time, if not soon, give PCGS and NGC a run for their money. [Okay, I probably made some enemies for sure now...sorry if the above seemed a bit too passionate!] >>

      I used to rave about PCI when no one else was years and years ago (well before the gold label scandal) so I know how you feel regarding your passion and your position on ICG. With that said, you just gotta take a look at the massive Lincolns and Jeffersons (to name but two Series) that have received the MS67 grade that are not worthy of anything past MS64 or MS65.

      Every Service makes mistakes. ANACS makes less of them than ICG and will get my submissions everytime.

      Plus, it's a bit gimmicky the way ICG sends your coins to a holding house to avoid a "conflict of interest". Come on.

      peacockcoins

    • I have never had an icg coin cross at the same grade to pcgs (mostly moderns) I have had most of my anacs coin cross at the same grade or higher.
    • darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭
      Do you think ICG will put this internet poll in their ads like they did with the Ebay oneimage.
    • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
      ANACS over ICG anyday.
    • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,692 ✭✭✭
      i picked anacs, but for reasons totally indifferent to "grading standards", since frankly, the 2 are very close from what i've seen (which does NOT include super-graded moderns, since i don't buy 'em). my decision has to do w/ attribution, which anacs provides & icg does not. it's also the reason i would pick anacs over ngc & pcgs, though ngc is catching up.

      "grading" is no factor in my decision

      K S
    • pharmerpharmer Posts: 8,355


      << <i>i picked anacs, but for reasons totally indifferent to "grading standards", since frankly, the 2 are very close from what i've seen (which does NOT include super-graded moderns, since i don't buy 'em). my decision has to do w/ attribution, which anacs provides & icg does not. it's also the reason i would pick anacs over ngc & pcgs, though ngc is catching up.

      "grading" is no factor in my decision

      K S >>



      When ICG attributes, the coin comes first from a CONECA attributor, and the slab label includes the listing attribution including die or rpm number, die mating registry, die state and stage, and "first reported" if it is a new listing. Now THAT is attribution.
      Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

      Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."

      image
    • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,738 ✭✭✭
      I purchased from Heritage a 1939 Washington in an ICG holdler graded 66. It was dropped off at PCGS at FUN, received back 3 weeks later with a notation, planchet flaw not gradable. Sent it to NCS for conservation, came back bagged for the same reason. Draw your own conclusions but I do buy coins graded by ANACS and by and by they seem correctly graded. I no longer buy coins graded by ICG.

    • ERER Posts: 7,345


      << <i>I purchased from Heritage a 1939 Washington in an ICG holdler graded 66. It was dropped off at PCGS at FUN, received back 3 weeks later with a notation, planchet flaw not gradable. Sent it to NCS for conservation, came back bagged for the same reason. Draw your own conclusions but I do buy coins graded by ANACS and by and by they seem correctly graded. I no longer buy coins graded by ICG. >>


      Why is a coin with a planchet flaw not gradable? That 's BS (not you, IrishMike). I have seen graded coins with planchet flaws in both PCGS and NGC slabs.


    • << <i>I have seen graded coins with planchet flaws in both PCGS and NGC slabs. >>



      Were they modern coins or early US dollars? There is a big difference in the eyes of the grading services when to bag a coin for a planchet flaw.

      Cameron Kiefer
    • ERER Posts: 7,345


      << <i>

      << <i>I have seen graded coins with planchet flaws in both PCGS and NGC slabs. >>



      Were they modern coins or early US dollars? There is a big difference in the eyes of the grading services when to bag a coin for a planchet flaw.

      Cameron Kiefer >>


      Early coins. I still say it's BS.
    • I say you can't compare the two together.

      Cameron Kiefer
    • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,738 ✭✭✭
      ER, your point is well taken, its the same old tired grading argument. If the coin is old enough it can get slabbed regardless of the problem. A lowly 39 Washington doesn't deserve the same benefit. I'll post a picture of it this weekend, good luck even finding the spot they were talking about. I'll blow that sucker (the pic) so far up, well nevermind. image
    • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,875 ✭✭✭
      ANACS. I only use their error service because it's like $10 per coin vs
      $30 per coin @ PCGS. Now that I think about it I don't think I've seen an ICG error service.
      I think ICG is a little better at the common grade, common dates Morgans than ANACS is.
      Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
    • ok....here i go stepin out on the plank here but i had to say something!!!!!!!!!!!!im going to pi$$ some of you off but some will benefit so here goes


      >>>Which of the TWO following services do you prefer?
      ANACS or ICG?>>>>


      to those of you who answered this question it is obvious that you have to do new thinking....so wake up your minds and think as the coin market is weaker when inhabited by poeple who are uninformed and dont know "the game"...aka how this market works...so by me commenting i am trying to protect my investment in coins by making a stronger market by having smarter players " on the field"




      FACT:

      1) ALWAYS buy the coin not the plastic...that being said ......it shouldnt make a difference what service the coin is in so the question is mute from the buy side ..and nobody should of answered the question....way too many did!!!!


      the question would of been a valid one if it went on to say....." if you were a seller"....so now you ask why.....simple...there are way too many dummies out there ( not on this board if course ) just buying plastic.....and many of these "clones" only buy their prefered grading services coins...that being said....as a seller you will have more buyers for your coins thus higher prices .....if they were in this holder or that holder


      2) ANYBODY who only buys one service`s coins cant possibly compete with those that do...thus the person who buys the coin and not the plastic will see more coins and better coins than those who only buy one service....naturally if all other things are equal

      3) gradeflation is a fact...period...get used to it....( in theory and not absolute ) if you had a ms 66 pop 1 coin in 1990 and if it was the best then...guess what...it now has a lot of company and it could be a pop 10 now or more.......and i can assure you the value in ms 66 has gone down and you have lost money ( on paper )....but being the best then it probably ( in theory ) still is ....and will go into a higher grade now....and if you dont regrade it you will lose....and the upgrader will win

      news flash...both pcgs and ngc have graded over 10,000,000 coins now...there isnt 20,000,000 coins in holders....in fact im sure its less than 15% of that


      4) if your

      a) buying...you want tight grading

      b) selling...you want liquidity

      c) submitting...you dont want tight grading


      5) all the services are doing is RANKING coins from best to worse....thus they are making a killing grading ( aka ranking ) the same coins over and over again......in 1990 my coin was a ms 66 .....was a ms 67 in 1999 when the pop of ms66 started filling up as it was the best in 1990 and still was in 1999...now that ms67 is filling up....it will be a 68 soon......that is the way it is.....while the services dont make big money over long termers like me ....they do on short termers where as the coins are bought and sold often and through upgrades coins make the transition upward in the gradeflation effect...thus getting graded numerous times.......yes i have had many more coins go up 2 grades than upgraders ever thought of having....and its simple...i have time...they are on the " grading edge : daily...so i should out double grade them..because i have time in the market....and i that time if the time is long enough......i can leap-frog a whole grade into the next grade


      6) the coin market is "cartelled" ( which is not all that bad )....the demand and supply balance is monitered daily.....no way will the services kill the dealers by grading all the coins all correctly....nor the collectors for that matter...heck ..they would put themselves out of business....the know now ( albeit they didnt in 1990 ) where coins fit as far as grading them goes ( aka ranking them ) ...but they want to get their money over the long haul not a quick 5 or 10 year pop....also...you might not know but mister inconsistent ( aka pcgs ) is inconsistent on purpose...you know that ms66 you wee looking for a 67 on and it came back in a 65 holder!!!!...well send it in again...you didnt think they were going to give you a 10,000 upgrade for one grading fee did you

      here is a good case in point... a friend of mine who is a master upgrader had this bust dollar in ms 65...he spent 40 fees on it...btw he never messes with anything but 100 fees ...for a reason....anyway he gave up on the coin....he didnt tell me this but i firmly believe he was told to give up for now....he paid 170,000 for the coin and now has 174,000 in it....he called the #1 registry guy and said hey i have the best ms 65 there is ..by far....do you want it???...the price is 190,000....the collector himed and hawed about paying too much and began to hammer at the price....i dont even know him but i thought to myself....geez you dummy...shut up and buy the coin....you know darn well its by far the best....my friend knew darn well it was the best ( and my friend knows..period )...fact is the buyer almost blew it as a smarter guy was a lurking....well because he is a registry guy he bought the coin for 190,000...good thing too as he almost lost it...it was within 30 minutes of going bye bye...segway 2007...ms 66...worth 350,000.......get my point

      enter monsterman`s rule # 64..." sometimes you pay too much for the right coin...but you always pay too much for the wrong coin


      now think with me here....a service makes the most money by being the tightest....because they

      1) get resubmissions over and over and over

      2) have the largest market maker base.... aka support..why..because those market makers can pick off your box of coins easier because more of them are undergraded than the other services....thus the marketmakers can make their money too...thus they raise their bids

      the last 2 are exactly correct...the problem is!!!!!...dont get too greedy and too slow with your gradeflation ( aka ranking )..if you do...all the great coins will end up ( as per above....<<<< c) submitting...you dont want tight grading>>>> ...in the other guys holders and all you will have left in your holders is second class coins....if i where the other service ..i would hire your ace man like rick montgomery away from you....then i would put the brakes on gradeflation and let pcgs sink into second place.....it would be a one year project....what are the signs of that you ask!!!...well the crossing from pcgs to ngc would begin to dry up....which would explain why i am seeing and hearing about it more and more....soon you are going to have to crack em to get them into ngc holders as they arent crossing pcgs coins anymore...wa la.....how does this happen.....simple.....if you wont grade it right and are too tight ( and the trade...aka upgraders .. know what a 67 looks like too ...then into the competition it goes and over time thats where they all are going now....i see it everyday...in fact more and more i see ngc bids go higher than pcgs coins....the forty-niners used to be in the superbowl picture every year...now they cant win a game.....

      in my field ( commems )....here is the way it is....i have tried to buy the most monster toned coins there are....and it it doesnt matter if they are pcgs or ngc...the buyers will be there if i wanted to sell....if they where just so so coins..it would matter as i would want to be in the most demand driven holder of the day as i would want to catch those "plastic" buyers......

      bottomline...and the way to make sure of your investment once the dollar amount exceeds the.... "only having fun" level and into the "im having fun but i need to be responsible" level

      1) develope a good eye and buy the coin not the plastic

      2) develope great sources and contacts.. and know the players

      3) buy premium quality coins...that begin at less than $50

      4) spend time in the market...



      do those 4 things...and i assure you ...you will be sucessful


      monsterman


      ps..im sorry i pi$$ some of you off....but i speak the truth


      pss...a little ditty for you...i once saw a upgrader make 300,000 in a day...you see a lesser service got behind the curve on gold...he bought it all....quitely...before anyone knew what happend he was in his room cracking and resubmitting to the big guy...he bought them all at 450...next day he sold 80% of them for 1450 to a telemarkerer...cha ching.....thats why you see graders roaming the floor at the end of a day of a show..... looking at what the other guys ar doing




      my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!

      out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
    • ERER Posts: 7,345


      << <i>ok....here i go stepin out on the plank here but i had to say something!!!!!!!!!!!!im going to pi$$ some of you off but some will benefit so here goes


      >>>Which of the TWO following services do you prefer?
      ANACS or ICG?>>>>


      to those of you who answered this question it is obvious that you have to do new thinking....so wake up your minds and think as the coin market is weaker when inhabited by poeple who are uninformed and dont know "the game"...aka how this market works...so by me commenting i am trying to protect my investment in coins by making a stronger market by having smarter players " on the field"




      FACT:

      1) ALWAYS buy the coin not the plastic...that being said ......it shouldnt make a difference what service the coin is in so the question is mute from the buy side ..and nobody should of answered the question....way too many did!!!!


      the question would of been a valid one if it went on to say....." if you were a seller"....so now you ask why.....simple...there are way too many dummies out there ( not on this board if course ) just buying plastic.....and many of these "clones" only buy their prefered grading services coins...that being said....as a seller you will have more buyers for your coins thus higher prices .....if they were in this holder or that holder


      2) ANYBODY who only buys one service`s coins cant possibly compete with those that do...thus the person who buys the coin and not the plastic will see more coins and better coins than those who only buy one service....naturally if all other things are equal

      3) gradeflation is a fact...period...get used to it....( in theory and not absolute ) if you had a ms 66 pop 1 coin in 1990 and if it was the best then...guess what...it now has a lot of company and it could be a pop 10 now or more.......and i can assure you the value in ms 66 has gone down and you have lost money ( on paper )....but being the best then it probably ( in theory ) still is ....and will go into a higher grade now....and if you dont regrade it you will lose....and the upgrader will win

      news flash...both pcgs and ngc have graded over 10,000,000 coins now...there isnt 20,000,000 coins in holders....in fact im sure its less than 15% of that


      4) if your

      a) buying...you want tight grading

      b) selling...you want liquidity

      c) submitting...you dont want tight grading


      5) all the services are doing is RANKING coins from best to worse....thus they are making a killing grading ( aka ranking ) the same coins over and over again......in 1990 my coin was a ms 66 .....was a ms 67 in 1999 when the pop of ms66 started filling up as it was the best in 1990 and still was in 1999...now that ms67 is filling up....it will be a 68 soon......that is the way it is.....while the services dont make big money over long termers like me ....they do on short termers where as the coins are bought and sold often and through upgrades coins make the transition upward in the gradeflation effect...thus getting graded numerous times.......yes i have had many more coins go up 2 grades than upgraders ever thought of having....and its simple...i have time...they are on the " grading edge : daily...so i should out double grade them..because i have time in the market....and i that time if the time is long enough......i can leap-frog a whole grade into the next grade


      6) the coin market is "cartelled" ( which is not all that bad )....the demand and supply balance is monitered daily.....no way will the services kill the dealers by grading all the coins all correctly....nor the collectors for that matter...heck ..they would put themselves out of business....the know now ( albeit they didnt in 1990 ) where coins fit as far as grading them goes ( aka ranking them ) ...but they want to get their money over the long haul not a quick 5 or 10 year pop....also...you might not know but mister inconsistent ( aka pcgs ) is inconsistent on purpose...you know that ms66 you wee looking for a 67 on and it came back in a 65 holder!!!!...well send it in again...you didnt think they were going to give you a 10,000 upgrade for one grading fee did you

      here is a good case in point... a friend of mine who is a master upgrader had this bust dollar in ms 65...he spent 40 fees on it...btw he never messes with anything but 100 fees ...for a reason....anyway he gave up on the coin....he didnt tell me this but i firmly believe he was told to give up for now....he paid 170,000 for the coin and now has 174,000 in it....he called the #1 registry guy and said hey i have the best ms 65 there is ..by far....do you want it???...the price is 190,000....the collector himed and hawed about paying too much and began to hammer at the price....i dont even know him but i thought to myself....geez you dummy...shut up and buy the coin....you know darn well its by far the best....my friend knew darn well it was the best ( and my friend knows..period )...fact is the buyer almost blew it as a smarter guy was a lurking....well because he is a registry guy he bought the coin for 190,000...good thing too as he almost lost it...it was within 30 minutes of going bye bye...segway 2007...ms 66...worth 350,000.......get my point

      enter monsterman`s rule # 64..." sometimes you pay too much for the right coin...but you always pay too much for the wrong coin


      now think with me here....a service makes the most money by being the tightest....because they

      1) get resubmissions over and over and over

      2) have the largest market maker base.... aka support..why..because those market makers can pick off your box of coins easier because more of them are undergraded than the other services....thus the marketmakers can make their money too...thus they raise their bids

      the last 2 are exactly correct...the problem is!!!!!...dont get too greedy and too slow with your gradeflation ( aka ranking )..if you do...all the great coins will end up ( as per above....<<<< c) submitting...you dont want tight grading>>>> ...in the other guys holders and all you will have left in your holders is second class coins....if i where the other service ..i would hire your ace man like rick montgomery away from you....then i would put the brakes on gradeflation and let pcgs sink into second place.....it would be a one year project....what are the signs of that you ask!!!...well the crossing from pcgs to ngc would begin to dry up....which would explain why i am seeing and hearing about it more and more....soon you are going to have to crack em to get them into ngc holders as they arent crossing pcgs coins anymore...wa la.....how does this happen.....simple.....if you wont grade it right and are too tight ( and the trade...aka upgraders .. know what a 67 looks like too ...then into the competition it goes and over time thats where they all are going now....i see it everyday...in fact more and more i see ngc bids go higher than pcgs coins....the forty-niners used to be in the superbowl picture every year...now they cant win a game.....

      in my field ( commems )....here is the way it is....i have tried to buy the most monster toned coins there are....and it it doesnt matter if they are pcgs or ngc...the buyers will be there if i wanted to sell....if they where just so so coins..it would matter as i would want to be in the most demand driven holder of the day as i would want to catch those "plastic" buyers......

      bottomline...and the way to make sure of your investment once the dollar amount exceeds the.... "only having fun" level and into the "im having fun but i need to be responsible" level

      1) develope a good eye and buy the coin not the plastic

      2) develope great sources and contacts.. and know the players

      3) buy premium quality coins...that begin at less than $50

      4) spend time in the market...



      do those 4 things...and i assure you ...you will be sucessful


      monsterman


      ps..im sorry i pi$$ some of you off....but i speak the truth


      pss...a little ditty for you...i once saw a upgrader make 300,000 in a day...you see a lesser service got behind the curve on gold...he bought it all....quitely...before anyone knew what happend he was in his room cracking and resubmitting to the big guy...he bought them all at 450...next day he sold 80% of them for 1450 to a telemarkerer...cha ching.....thats why you see graders roaming the floor at the end of a day of a show..... looking at what the other guys ar doing >>


      Anybody pi$$ed? Not me.
    • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,719 ✭✭✭✭✭
      ANACS is horrible at attribution. (at least for the examples I have). I would never use them for this service.
      Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
    • PrethenPrethen Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭
      Not pi$$ed here either. Thanks for the big rundown. I've saved your response in a text file for future reference.

      I don't think I can disagree with anything you said. 'Tis true that you should carefully examine a coin even if it's in a holder. However, this can be tricky if it's in something like an NTC holder because it could be a "problem coin" and you need to be hip as to what constitutes a "problem coin". Yes, yes, problem coins end up in the big guys holders, but if it does it's somewhat newsworthy; not if it's coming out of an ACG or NTC holder.

      I think the main impetus for this thread is, if you, as a buyer, were to lean on the plastic and not inspect the coin too closely, which service would you blindly respect more? That's my guess as to this thread's intention.

      The overview of gradeflation scares me. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I really don't like that game if that's what's really happening. It sort of puts a bunch of doubt into what that grade really means on that slab you're about to buy. Personally above 66 I'm pretty much in the dark as to grade changes.
    • ICG

      I read on the other thread that they were going to have a message board and pay a moderator huge bucks image

      Forum AdministratorPSA & PSA/DNA ForumModerator@collectors.com | p 800.325.1121 | PSAcard.com

    • RussRuss Posts: 48,515 ✭✭✭


      << <i>also...you might not know but mister inconsistent ( aka pcgs ) is inconsistent on purpose...you know that ms66 you wee looking for a 67 on and it came back in a 65 holder!!!!...well send it in again...you didnt think they were going to give you a 10,000 upgrade for one grading fee did you >>



      image

      Russ, NCNE
    • MercMerc Posts: 1,646 ✭✭
      ANACS for moderns especially proofs. ICG for older coins.
      Looking for a coin club in Maryland? Try:
      FrederickCoinClub
    • flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭


      << <i>I have never had an icg coin cross at the same grade to pcgs (mostly moderns) I have had most of my anacs coin cross at the same grade or higher. >>

      I have.
    • <<<<< out of an ACG or NTC holder.>>>>>

      if its not one of the big boys

      ngc
      pcgs
      anacs
      icg

      be very careful.....i have bought some monster segs coins....and some pci too..all the others i have never seen anything worth buying....i cant blame the services though...as they have to have a place in the market...albeit a quarter of a point of...a half a point or 4 points...i blame the dealers who sell coins in XXXX holders using ngc/pcgs price guides....THOSE THAT SELL THOSE COINS AND SAY...IN THEIR ADDS " TRENDS AT 5,000 " are thieves....plain and simple...just thieves....if it trends at 5,000 go put it in a holder and sell it to another dealer...they know who they are....and they will get theirs

      >>>>>>I think the main impetus for this thread is, if you, as a buyer, were to lean on the plastic and not inspect the coin too closely, which service would you blindly respect more? That's my guess as to this thread's intention.>>>

      in this case coins just turn into a commodity and the only way for them to go up is an increase in demand...if that is the case you are stuck with a buy sell spread sorta like gold twenties in generic grades....its all supply and demand.....

      >>>>>The overview of gradeflation scares me. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I really don't like that game if that's what's really happening. It sort of puts a bunch of doubt into what that grade really means on that slab you're about to buy.>>>>>


      sorry to scare you but nothing bites so dont be afraid....however as in life...all you need to do is know the rules...in alaska you better think shelter first...in the desert you better think water first...know the landscape....and you win...dont and you lose

      GRADEFLATION IS A FACT...PERIOD...ABSOLUTELY FACT....this is a food chain hobby..it is darwinism....ANYTIME YOU HAVE MONEY INVOLVED.....expect to be eaten if you are a seal in a pool of sharks.....turn into a killer whale and eat sharks....i love eating sharks.mmmmmmmmmm good

      you have 2 choices

      1) spend amusment money in the hobby and you can reap tons of fun...cost???a steak dinner once a month

      2) spend serious money...better think serious..its all relative


      >>>I can't quite put my finger on it, but I really don't like that game if that's what's really happening. It sort of puts a bunch of doubt into what that gradereally means on that slab you're about to buy.>>>>>
      >>>

      i will put my finger for you...it means thats where you stand today in relation to all the others....the trick is simple.....in theory if you had a coin with a pop of 10....and owned all 10 and lined them all up as far as quality of the 10 coins...2 of them could/would upgrade.....6 will stay the same...and 2 will downgrade....thats easy enough to understand in theory.....takes talent in reality...aka grading skills...it would not be fair for you to play golf all day as i study coins all day and it not show up in the quality of our coins we own....if i dont whoop your a$$ all over the boarse i have a bad case of the dumb a$$....just if you dont whoop me like a step child on the links....

      always remember.....prices of collectibles rise by demand....and fall too...and that demand is greatest from the top down....if i have the finest and as long as there is 2 guiys wanting it..its a who blinks first situation.

      if there are 20 serious buyers and the pop is 10 the price raises until 10 are eliminated according to their wallet and or they wait...sometimes many many years...conversely if there are 20 seious buyers and the pop is 40 then the price comes down until there are 40 serious buyers

      monsterman



      ps....monsterman`s rule #72....never buy a coin where the buyer is rarer than the coin itself


      pss...monsterman`s rule # 39...i never mind being the highest bidder for a coin....just as long as the next highest bidder isnt some stupid % below me....i did see unknowledgable people fight it out for a 53-s frankln...pop 1 and the two ran it up to 80,000...right by the #3 guy at 40,000.....a year later the winner sold auction...only the #2 guy wasnt there anymore....so the #3 guy won the coin at 40,000

      results

      #3---bought his coin at a supported area
      #2--- no loss or gain
      #1--- gave a 40,000 party

      thus in pss above>>>>next highest bidder>>>THATS PLURAL UNDERSTOOD





      my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!

      out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
    • dthigpendthigpen Posts: 3,932 ✭✭
      monsterman,

      You seem to have quite a list of 'rules', care to post all of them for our further education and not just #39 and #72?
    • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭
      ANACS, period.
      an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
    • KurtHornKurtHorn Posts: 1,382
      In some ways I like both of them better than the top 2. I HATE BODY BAGS! If I pay $30 for submitting a coin it should COME BACK IN PLASTIC! Sorry to be yelling... Anyway, I always get it in plastic with ANACS albeit sometimes net graded. If ICG won't grade it they only charge me $5. Better than a $30 body bag IMO. -Kurt-
      "Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself." - William Faulkner
      NoEbayAuctionsForNow
    • pharmerpharmer Posts: 8,355


      << <i>ICG

      I read on the other thread that they were going to have a message board and pay a moderator huge bucks image >>



      Yeah, this is the third time you've read/mentioned/begged this. I wondered how you got all those posts when you don't pipe up much. The adult forum between 2 and 4am, right? I'm sure Mr. Taylor has an offer sheet prepared.image
      Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

      Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."

      image
    • << I have never had an icg coin cross at the same grade to pcgs (mostly moderns) I have had most of my anacs coin cross at the same grade or higher. >>


      what does that tell ya...sounds like someone is trying to put someone out of business.....if you owned pcgs and some young whooper snapper started horning in on your playground...would you cross them???all you be saying is...hey they are just as good as me!!!...which in turn means why go to you....and you couldnt afford that ferarri anymore

      fact is....

      i never had a icg coin cross at pcgs either......

      fact is

      i never had a icg coin not go into the same pcgs grade either

      they made me crack em... 2 the exact same day

      fact is....

      i had 2 icg coins that i cracked and went up a grade at pcgs 2 months ago


      fact is your anacs statement just vilifies my gradeflation statement...seeing as they were around before pcgs got started...

      fact is there are a lot of coins in old anacs holders that are undergraded and the fact is there are many graded right and some overgraded...so when you find an old anacs holdered coin....you either have skill or you dont...if you have skill ..get out the climes...if you dont....better quote dirty harry...do ya feel lucky???? the kucky window cloes a little everyday as the pros are crackin the undergraded ones and leaving the rest...for the dummies

      my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!

      out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
    • pharmerpharmer Posts: 8,355


      << <i>

      << <i>ICG

      I read on the other thread that they were going to have a message board and pay a moderator huge bucks image >>



      Yeah, this is the third time you've read/mentioned/begged this. I wondered how you got all those posts when you don't pipe up much. The adult forum between 2 and 4am, right? I'm sure Mr. Taylor has an offer sheet prepared.image >>



      speaking of adult forum, cherwood has an interesting jpg on the testing forum
      Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

      Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."

      image
    • PrethenPrethen Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭
      The "thing" that "scares" me is that MS67-70 seem to have very little meaning if it's all about the population reports and how many are in which bucket. That seems bogus as compared to when you read the ANA Photograde or PCGS grading guidelines. Basically, it seems that what you're implying is that high grades are being set by more subjective means than objective means and they're subjecting their grading standards against something that has NOTHING to do with the coin but the market itself. That's goofy and a bit scary!

      Personally, I don't play around in the high-grade/low pop arena; I don't have the stomach or the money for it. Thanks for helping vindicate my current collecting habits. And, I mean that in a good way. Truly, thanks!

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