Dueling Mantles....
TMc
Posts: 124
The exact card offered by two different sellers, both the same 1952 PSA 8 mantle. Morons. How long before ebay wakes up from their nap. Maybe someone with link know how can post them. Maybe I'll bid on both.
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Comments
And so is this one. Zero feedback. "I will end auction early for a respectable offer."
Kinda funny that they stole the same scan at the same time. Alerted eBay to both.
When I look at the zero FB sale, I only see the back of the card? Can you see the front? If so, please post it. It may have to do the way my security is set up?
your friend
Mike
How long before ebay wakes up from their nap.....
Unfortunately, ebay has way to many auctions to police every one.....it relies on individuals to report problems, or suspicious activity.
That's the price ebay (and the bidders) have paid it becoming the largest site on the 'net.
Not defending them, that's just how it is.......buyer beware!
Dal
there has been af ew concerned ebayers and bidders that have informed me someone has used my pictures for their mantle auctions. While this conerns me, this happens and i can not do anything about it. If you have any questions regarding this, please dont hesitate to email me thanks >>>
"This one is a scam" just posted the above on his auction. "And so is this one" has been removed. "This one is a scam" also has an auction for an obvious 52 Mantle reprint.
Now the seller in scam #1 is claiming the seller in scam #2 stole his scan:
<< <i>While this conerns me, this happens and i can not do anything about it. >>
It concerns him, except that he does it too. Hilarious.
Chris
Heck - sign me up for that job! Sports radio and watching sports auctions all day - I can handle that!
I can think of a few "sellers" I'd boot on the first day
"um, yeah, like I got this in one of those junk lots where you pay be the pound and they promise to put in good cards, and I got the good cards. Oh, I also sell these fabulous bulk lots too, be sure to check them out, you could maybe find a 52 mantle, just like me! Don't worry, your odd are good because I have a lot of 52 topps mantles and the lots are randomly put together by my little brothers pet monkey who doesnt know much about football cards. Also some cards of this honus wagner guy are included - I dont know much about them but they look really old."
Current Sets in Progress:
1956 Topps Master Set PSA 6 or better
1978 Topps PSA 9 or 10
1981 Donruss Golf PSA 9 or 10
1989 Upper Deck PSA 9 or 10
Nolan Ryan Master Set
Pete Rose Master Set
Seller #1 is mlhookup I think... checkout his other auctions for sale and he has several lame NGS graded cards (they literally look like stickers on cards that weren't good enough for PRO)... wasn't NGS mlhookup's grading company? Plus he is in Indiana... wasn't that where mlhookup was from?
The scammer has posted this. The negative e-mails must be getting to him a little bit. Like all con artists he thinks he will fool us by spreading around more BS.
To: aloof1003@comcast.net
Subject: roberto clemente
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:04:06 +0000
the card is graded by ngs grading, its a grading service that takes cards, gives them to their graders. checks them for authenticity and condition, grades them and then returns them, similar to psa if you have of heard of them.
please let me know if you have anymore questions on the card
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the response i recieved when i aske'd about ngs grading
scott
i think this is our friend tinas or mlhookup.
scott
His listings are odd though. He's got the phantom PSA 8 Mantle for sale without private bidders (which means the sale will ikely never occur, as multiple people will contact the winning bidder), then another 52 Mantle, this one he stole a scan of a PSA graded card for the front, and he puts a picture of a card from a reprint set as the back. That one is going for $102 and reached the reserve. Then, he has three worthless cards in the NGS holders, and then a Clemente that's missing half the card - which ends 12 hours after the PSA 8 Mantle, so he figures he'll stick around for a while before he disappears and becomes NARU.
Someone mentioned someone should patrol this stuff, as eBay doesn't... I have been...
Since May, I have constantly been running an auction for my guide: 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle - How To Spot Fakes. I sell access to it for $10 to cover my listing costs & other fees I incur. On my average 10 day auction, with a Featured Plus listing, I get around 700-800 hits to the auction itself, the auction states that people are getting ripped off at the rate of over $50K a month on these fake cards, and usually 10-14 people will buy access. And many of those buyers are people who just recently went and placed a bid, sometimes the winning bid, on an obvious fake. It is unbelievable how many people are willing to put themselves into a position to get robbed blind before realizing they could have prevented it.
Eventually, eBay will need to clean up the site of these jokers. I'm sure they are racking their brains on how to do it, but there are thousands of auctions constantly running, with thousands of scams, that they could not possibly catch them all. I think the first step that they could take is eliminating 1 day auctions, or capping the maximum dollar amount a 1 day auction can sell for. They will also need a more thorough membership registration requirement of some sort... so people cannot open random accounts.
My two cents.
To be flat honest I have somewhat started NGS, I have lined up the graders,the holders,sticker designs etc...
we have only graded about 100 cards so far, hence the serial number i am not trying to pretend the grading company is something its not.
the person you are pointng out that is selling ngs cards, look to be all cards that were first submitted after advertising at a small flea market/card show in indianapolis.
and i take it he just turned around and tried to sell them on ebay for some reason.while the 222 in his email is oddly familiar, i can assure you my company just grades the cards right now, instead of offering pgs like ebay selling services.
The cards are graded just as hard or harder than psa does and are accuratlely graded, so if your idea of a sham is a company that grades cards accuratley and on par with your favorite holder psa, then psa is a sham as well.
this is just the first run, so just seeing how it goes.
as far as the sticker design, it looks alot sharper and better looking than any pro grading sticker or for that matter psa as well had more detailed information.
just have a few kinks to work out, as having different graders grading this small amount of cards causes problems and inconsistencies.
thanks for any HELPFUL information you can give
Welcome back!
Look, if you want some good input, don't be picking on our "Columbo Squad" because some good work is being done here.
Can you give us a scan of some of the work you guys are doing?
Who is doing the submitting?
Any vintage?
Is your web page active now?
Stone
i can drop a few scans off, the website is somewhat active it does not have all of our graded cards up there yet.
and it has one or two that were a test run for the sticker design etc..
most of the cards have been low as far as value wise, we had one clemente and the rest have been 10-15 dollar cards at best. we were doing 2/card grading at the flea market/card show so i guess you can grade cheap cards for that price
still working out some kinks.
and i am totally aware you probably will think our grades our joke but i sware the cards our graded accuratley, and very, very close to psa.
thanks
SWARE ??????? ACURATTLEY ?????????
Scott
never claimed to be a grammar star
thanks for the point out though
In your expert opinion, would you say that this 1956 Topps Roberto Clemente is altered in any way? Is this the standard size issue, or is it the ultra scarce "mini" issue released in the suburbs of Anchorage, Alaska only (the trees don't grow as big there so Topps decided to reduce the use of cardboard)?
as far as the two other i dont know of them
By the way... I think Mr. Magoo must be your head grader because that Clemente has been sliced down on all sides... the white border should be about 3 times as wide as that example your expert grader's slabbed as NGS 5 EX... even PRO grading would reject that rag.
Plus, I haven't met the collector who wants to buy a slabbed card that has the slab and stickie note covering 20% of the card... must be that niche you're aiming for that you keep talking about.
You have to give him credit, that's pretty funny (though he doesn't know it). I never thought of looking on Overstock for Mantle rookies.
i am just looking for some valuable information here again since you guys have dealth with grading services for years, is that too much to ask?
i will take the very few informative posts off this thread again and use it, thanks stone
may make some improvements and refine everthing before i post again
secondly i took a look at both of the mantle auctions you are referring to, and i see that one has been taken off, and see that the one currently up was put up before that, did you ever think this guy could be the rightful owner to those scans?
i mean you do detective work but you just seem to make up your own conclusions and immediatley say its a scam without any information. Besides his feedback being private which i never bid on people with private feedback I would say if ebay left it up and took the other one down that they believe this seller is the rightful owner to those scans and i would have no problem bidding on the card besides the hidden feedback.
you guys need to take it easy sometimes
but thanks for your information again
thanks
NGS Grading
First, it appears to have scans and comments for every one of the cards they have graded. Click on "grade check" and just put in any number. Try "1" and you get a bunch of random cards. Anyway, the comments include the name of the person that did the grading. Here are the comments from the 1956 Clemente Mini that was posted earlier in the thread:
1956 Topps Roberto Clemente #33
Graded By Mike Rolen/NGS grading Team #1. Grader Comments: 1956 Topps Roberto Clemente #33. Grade 2.7 B- Ex Serial Number #000000019. Average Centering, significant gloss loss but nothing significant.Slight wear on one of the corners, clean back, no creases, no stains.
Hmmm. "Significant gloss loss but nothing significant"
Alright.
I really don't understand the grade scale. It's 1-4, I think. There's a letter grade, too...and they then match it to PSA.
Oh, if you're really trying to make a go of this, you need to make the grade a lot bigger on the sticky flip. It's too hard to see now. Or, maybe I'll just make it bigger when I print my own flips on Avery envelope labels. Either way is fine.
<< <i>secondly i took a look at both of the mantle auctions you are referring to, and i see that one has been taken off, and see that the one currently up was put up before that, did you ever think this guy could be the rightful owner to those scans? >>
No.
The other guy who took his auction down when warned is no less of a scammer, but he's smarter.
In the post right above this one, the holder and flip are almost as trashed as the Mantle. VG-Ex on the card is just silly.
secondly with that centering thats a psa 3 or 4 card.
which is right in the range of vg-ex
Defending the guy (likely himself) trying to pawn off the same 52 Mantle scan that was already "sold" in all of these auctions:
5137688933 5134156823 5132831426
Ahh... we love hearing your BS, so please enlighten us with more crap about your booming business in the worst possible grammar you can.
never said i was a millionaire, never said this was going tobe a successful business, just something to try.
secondly on the data base of cards on the site, if u type just a partitial number it comes up with any in the database that follow that pattern another little querk but not really an important one.
the mantle was graded right, maybe one higher than what psa would grade it, specially since you dont have the card in your possession probably pretty hard to make a judgement.
thanks
<< <i>if you look at that mantle the back is clean and flawless, there are some wear on the corners .... >>
so the card was graded accuratley and since it wasnt even a customer card or a real card and just a test, whats the grade matter?
I do agree that the grade being made bigger is a valid complaint.
even though psa's are pretty small too
thanks for the tip
How can you grade accurately when you cannot even spell the word accurately.
Jim
thanks
Jim
I guess it's good to know that your company has no problem grading your own cards with somewhat slack standards. Afterall, "what's the grade matter?" Those are your words, and if I were the PR guy for a card grading company, I'd advise the head of the company to avoid saying "what's the grade matter?" in public.
But, that's just me.