Questions for you folks about your paying full list/asking price on coins (or just passing), vs. neg
coinguy1
Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
Warning - several questions to follow..........
How many of you either buy a coin at its listed asking price or pass on it, but don't try to negotiate?
To those who do negotiate, what goes into your thinking about whether to counter-offer and if so, by how much?
Does the price/value range of the coin make any difference?
If you're off by a certain % or amount do you just pass instead of worrying about insulting the seller?
Does your research of prices/values come into play?
Does it matter which dealer it is?
Does it make a difference if you're at a show instead of doing business through the mail?
Does it make any difference if you think or know you're getting first shot at the coin and that others are in line behind you?
Come on, "spill the beans" to the rest of us?????
How many of you either buy a coin at its listed asking price or pass on it, but don't try to negotiate?
To those who do negotiate, what goes into your thinking about whether to counter-offer and if so, by how much?
Does the price/value range of the coin make any difference?
If you're off by a certain % or amount do you just pass instead of worrying about insulting the seller?
Does your research of prices/values come into play?
Does it matter which dealer it is?
Does it make a difference if you're at a show instead of doing business through the mail?
Does it make any difference if you think or know you're getting first shot at the coin and that others are in line behind you?
Come on, "spill the beans" to the rest of us?????
0
Comments
It's only money and the only time you consider the price of an object is the day you buy it and the day you sell it. Otherwise, you just enjoy it (or don't).
That's why I never track what I spent on a coin. I don't care to remember, I just want to enjoy the coin when I'm looking it at.
If the price is more than I want to pay -- I pass, if not then its a buy. Greysheet HAHA!
Okay --- so now -- what dealers what to overcharge me for their coins! Step right up with all the toned Peace $ you have!
TPN
If the right wins, the cash is spent.
peacockcoins
Simple.
My Auctions
spoken like a true lawyer......
I sometimes buy at the ask but most times I'll negotiate. My offer will depend on my assesment of whom I'm dealing with(on a first time deal). If I know the dealer/collector I may have an idea as to how much he/she will move. I'll pass most of the time if the ask price is very high as it is clear the seller is tring to rip the buyer or has no clue what they are doing. The above is for face to face negotiations; over the net is a bit harder as you cannot get a good read on the person behind the keyboard. As to is there someone behind me in line; I'm sure there is but I have a price I'll pay and no more.
Chris
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
<< <i>How many of you either buy a coin at its listed asking price or pass on it, but don't try to negotiate? >>
It depends. If there is too large a spread between the asking price and what it's worth to me, I just say I'll pass. If it's in range, I try to negotiate.
<< <i>To those who do negotiate, what goes into your thinking about whether to counter-offer and if so, by how much? >>
How quickly can I flip it, and for how much profit?
<< <i>Does the price/value range of the coin make any difference? >>
Yes. I'm poor, so I only buy cheap stuff.
<< <i>If you're off by a certain % or amount do you just pass instead of worrying about insulting the seller? >>
I don't spend a lot of time worrying about insulting the seller.
<< <i>Does your research of prices/values come into play? >>
Sometimes. But, sometimes I just buy on gut hoping that I didn't get screwed too bad.
<< <i>Does it matter which dealer it is? >>
No. I'll try to rip anybody.
<< <i>Does it make a difference if you're at a show instead of doing business through the mail? >>
More fun at a show because I don't have to type.
Russ, NCNE
The lone exception to the above is if I'm cherrypicking someone, then I feel it's only fair to pay the price marked on the coin - I already know I'm getting a good (great) deal, so there's no need to haggle. I've even paid a couple of folks *more* than they wanted - told guys "keep the change, it's worth it."
In the mail or on the internet, it's the same thing - I'll typically ask for or offer one price, one time, then move on. If it's something really special or at the edge of affordability I might try to negotiate further, but those are rare.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
How many of you either buy a coin at its listed asking price or pass on it, but don't try to negotiate?
If the listed price is more than I wish to spend on the coin, I will not bother to make further inquiry. (Not exactly what you asked
Does the price/value range of the coin make any difference?
On relatively inexpensive coins (how I choose to define "inexpensive"), I do not care as much about the price. For example, a while back I asked Russ to sell me a AH Kennedy
Does it matter which dealer it is?
To me, it is not so much who the dealer is but what is the relationship. With the dealer who sells me the majority of my rare date gold coins, we never discuss the price. The coin is received on approval, and I if I keep the coin (90+ % of the time), I pay whatever is on the invoice. Similarly, when I was selling coins through him on consignment this summer, we never discussed the terms, and I feel that I was treated fairly. It takes a while to get to that place in the relationship, probably 12 or more satisfactory transactions.
Does it make any difference if you think or know you're getting first shot at the coin and that others are in line behind you?
I will answer a similar question. If I think the coin is a "hot newp" that will be in great demand, I would be less likely to expect a discount. If the coin has languished in the inventory for a while, I might offer a trade and/or make an offer for below the offering price.
As an aside, coins that languish in an inventory appeal to me less the longer they languish. There are a couple of coins in dealer inventories presently that I was close to buying. Now that they have sat around for a while, I am considerably less interested. Anti-herd mentality?
<< <i>Warning - several questions to follow..........
How many of you either buy a coin at its listed asking price or pass on it, but don't try to negotiate? >>
Just one of me
Depends. If the price is "in the ballpark," I'll try to negotiate. If it's way out of line, IMO, I'll just pass. Once in a while, I'll sound very surprised and say "you sure you got this one priced right?" Once in a while the dealer finds he did make a mistake. Other times, he's just dreaming.
<< <i>To those who do negotiate, what goes into your thinking about whether to counter-offer and if so, by how much? >>
More often than counter-offer, I'll ask for a better price and see what the dealer says.
<< <i>Does the price/value range of the coin make any difference? >>
Yes. The pricier the coin, the more I want to deal.
<< <i>If you're off by a certain % or amount do you just pass instead of worrying about insulting the seller? >>
Do sellers worry about insulting the buyer? So why should I, as a buyer, worry about insulting the seller?
If it's a polite haggle, I'll politely decline if the price isn't right for me.
<< <i>Does your research of prices/values come into play? >>
Of course. Like with cars, sticker price is a joke. I know what I want to pay, within a range.
<< <i>Does it matter which dealer it is? >>
No.
<< <i>Does it make a difference if you're at a show instead of doing business through the mail? >>
Yes. In my experience, dealers are more willing to deal at shows. I suppose they have a goal of hopefully returning home with the inventory suitcase empty, hence more incentive to deal.
<< <i>Does it make any difference if you think or know you're getting first shot at the coin and that others are in line behind you? >>
Depends on the coin. If it's a rarity that doesn't come along very often, yes. Otherwise, no.
<< <i>Come on, "spill the beans" to the rest of us?????
Beans spilled...
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
If it is close to what I can afford, I ask "What is the best you can do on her?"
I try to research all the coins I"m interested in, including using the greysheet
It generally does not matter which dealer.
I only buy expensive (greater than $50.00) at shows.
Tom
<< <i>How many of you either buy a coin at its listed asking price or pass on it, but don't try to negotiate? >>
I bought many coins with listed price using BIN.
<< <i>To those who do negotiate, what goes into your thinking about whether to counter-offer and if so, by how much? >>
I have to do my homework, before I make an offer. No percentage here.
<< <i>Does the price/value range of the coin make any difference? >>
Yes
<< <i>If you're off by a certain % or amount do you just pass instead of worrying about insulting the seller? >>
I am bying a coin, if my offer insult the seller, well that does not bother me.
<< <i>Does your research of prices/values come into play? >>
Yes.
<< <i>Does it matter which dealer it is? >>
It does, if I know the dealer and trust him, and he always was fair with me, I don't question his price.
<< <i>Does it make a difference if you're at a show instead of doing business through the mail? >>
No.
<< <i>Does it make any difference if you think or know you're getting first shot at the coin and that others are in line behind you? >>
It does and affects my offer.
What are your answers?
Otherwise I will make an offer. I used to do that with all coins I wanted but many seemed insulted so now I only make a counter offer if I am somewhat close to the asking price.
<< <i>How about you Coinguy1?What are your answers? >>
Johnscoin, I promise to answer within the next day or two, and I assure you, I do have some specific opinions on this topic. But, I prefer to let others have time to answer my questions before I do so.
CG
To those who do negotiate, what goes into your thinking about whether to counter-offer and if so, by how much? I don't counter-offer.
Does the price/value range of the coin make any difference?no
If you're off by a certain % or amount do you just pass instead of worrying about insulting the seller? If I feel I may not see said coin or a comparable one for that money again, I buy it.
Does your research of prices/values come into play? greysheet is a joke for Key dates and extremely rare key dates like the 16/16 nickel I just bought, so no not really.
Does it matter which dealer it is? I'm not sure what you mean here but there are certain ones that I know will not budge on prices so I don't even ask. There are also a few dealers that I wouldn't spend one cent of my money with no matter what they had.
Does it make a difference if you're at a show instead of doing business through the mail? No.
Does it make any difference if you think or know you're getting first shot at the coin and that others are in line behind you? No
<< <i>How many of you either buy a coin at its listed asking price or pass on it, but don't try to negotiate? >>
Both ways. If I feel there is room and I want the coin I might make an offer.
<< <i>To those who do negotiate, what goes into your thinking about whether to counter-offer and if so, by how much? >>
Sometimes the start price tells me the coin is worth much more to the dealer than it is to me. I try not to make stupid offers that would turn the dealers attitude towards me. I wish him to like me and make future offers to me first.
<< <i>Does the price/value range of the coin make any difference? >>
No
<< <i>If you're off by a certain % or amount do you just pass instead of worrying about insulting the seller? >>
I pass.
<< <i>Does your research of prices/values come into play? >>
No. I collect, not invest.
<< <i>Does it matter which dealer it is? >>
No
<< <i>Does it make a difference if you're at a show instead of doing business through the mail? >>
No
<< <i>Does it make any difference if you think or know you're getting first shot at the coin and that others are in line behind you? >>
No.
<< <i>Come on, "spill the beans" to the rest of us?????
But I just did.
(1) It is distasteful to me.
(2) I feel dealers need to make a living and I really don't mind giving a dealer some money if I like him (or her).
Now some may scoff at these reasons but I'm a senior citizen and now realize that money really isn't the be all end all and if I die with a few thousand less than I could have died with SO WHAT !
michael
I used to haggle, then decided it was poiintless. The sellers know what they've got to get. If I dont like the price, I generally just tell them that it's not for me at that level and move on. I think sellers appriecate buyers that dont try to knaw every quarter off of the deal. Once you develep repore with them and they know you're not a haggler, you generally get better prices. On the flip side, if you try to haggle with a dealer almost every time you see him/her, I think he/she would be inclinded to inflate the price slightly for you just so there will be room to come down.
To those who do negotiate, what goes into your thinking about whether to counter-offer and if so, by how much? On the rare occasion that I do negotiate, it's generally for a coin that I want that I'm willing to pay over what I'd concider average market price. On such dates, I have a pre-conseaved max that I'm willing to pay. I just tell the seller in a nice way why I think the coin is worth X dollars. I then tell them that I'd really like to own the coin and I'd pay X + Y dollars for the coin. I also let them know that that's the most I could go, and there'd be no hard feelings if it wasnt good enough. More often than not, if my offer is turned down, they tell me later that they wished they had took it.
Does the price/value range of the coin make any difference?
It does. If the coin is ugly, I dont even want it. If it's average, I want to pay a little below average to average (if I'm looking for that date.) If it's PQ, I'm almost always willing to pay at the top of the range of average for the coiin... usally over it.
If you're off by a certain % or amount do you just pass instead of worrying about insulting the seller?
I never worry about insulting the seller. I'm polite unless the guy gets a haughty attitude with me. I acknowledge to them that it's a nice coin, I'm sure they paid strong for it, but it's just one of those things where there's not enough room in the price to make a sell. And that's really all it amounts too.
Does your research of prices/values come into play?
On cheap coins (under $10), I just buy them and dont worry about prices. On more expenive coins ($1000+), I flat out wont buy one unless I've researched the pricing history on it or I'm very knowledgable about the date/series. So to answer your question, it definatly comes into play when I'm deciding to buy a coin or not. In the rare occasions when I'm negotiating prices, I'll sometimes quote sorces just to give the buyer a perspective of where I'm coming from on the price.
Does it matter which dealer it is?
Absolutly. If it's a dealer that I've established a good working relationship with, I'll generally cut him good deals and he returns the favor. I'm also very comfortible dealing with such contacts b/c I know they're going to try to do me right, not do me over.
Does it make a difference if you're at a show instead of doing business through the mail?
I am much more apt to make $1000+ purchases online than I am at shows. The reason being is that I can do the research before taking the dive. If I'm teatering on a choice and decide not to purchase... the seller never even knows.
Does it make any difference if you think or know you're getting first shot at the coin and that others are in line behind you?
Nope. I appriciate the offer, but it does not play into my choice to purchase or negotiate.
Come on, "spill the beans" to the rest of us?????
The beans are in the kitchen right now. If I go in there right now, I'm afraid I would pass the beans and head off to the bedroom to hit the sack. So... no beans tonight.
David
I will never haggle after getting a best price; I think that's rude. I always ask for a best price; I think most dealers anticipate what I do (per the preceding paragraph) in setting the coin's original price.
I rarely buy coins in the mail unless I have a relationship with a particular dealer. The same applies re mail purchases, except I insist on a 7 day, no questions asked return privilege.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I call a coin what it is and ask for the best price in a polite
manner. If it is not in the ball park, I might counter with a
legitimate offer or politely pass. My regular dealers will always
offer me their best price and I will accept that if I like the coin.
I certainly may have over paid for
some of my coins, but they are all
awfully nice coins.
Camelot
If I'm within 10% I'll continue looking at a coin. If I'm off more than 10%, I'm passing.
The price/value of the coin doesn't really matter.
If I'm more than 10% off with what I think I can buy something for, I'm out and I try very hard not to insult anyone.
Research and experience of price/values is exactly what comes into play.
Doesn't matter which dealer.
Mail, show, doesn't matter.
"first shot" is appreciative but it still comes down to coin X is worth Y. First, second or last shot.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
if you like the coin, if you really REALLY like it, then the price does not matter.
therefore, i have formed good relationships w/ dealers i trust. when he has a coin i might like, i simply ask "what's the best price". since we've had a good, long relationship, i rely on his honesty.
i do not like to negotiate or haggle, though i have a lot of respect for those who do.
K S
When I order coins through the mail, the price listed in the ad is the price.
When I go to shows:
There is one dealer I buy a lot of coins from and at his table he has a sign that reads "The price of the coin is the price on the holder". He does not negotiate. I respect that and never ask for a discount, I either like the price or I don't.
With other show dealers, if I am buying relatively low dollar items I do not ask for a discount because 95% of the dealers discount the price anyway without my asking. If I am buying a larger ticket item, I merely show the item to the dealer and the dealer will more often than not give me a new price. I very,very rarely pick up an item that is not already priced and I have always bought the item if a lower price is given regardless of % of decrease (I never counter-offer).
Hope this helps.
Joe.
At the same time, I’m “Mr. Softie.” Unless an item is REALLY hard to find, and I know that I won’t see another for a LONG time, I don’t pay record-setting prices.
If the price is WAY out of line, that is usually a signal to me that we are too far a part, and I simply pass. If it is close, I’ll ask if the dealer can do any better. If it comes down to naming prices I’ll do that. Quite often we end up a “spit the difference” type of situation.
The key to negotiations is that you really have to know what the item is worth. The Gray Sheet is a guide, but quite often REALLY PQ coins are worth more than “bid” or even “ask” especially in this market. AND almost all key date coins are worth WELL over the bid and ask levels.
I don’t bother to look at the inventory of dealers who I know charge very high prices. It’s a waste of time for me to bother with them at a show, where time is money. Some of these dealers that are on my “do not bother list” are some of the same ones about whom a few of you sing praises. They might be great for collectors who are willing to pay high prices, but they are not good for me, even when I want to add an item to my collection. I know that I can get the same thing from others for less.
Frankly if you come on to me with an attitude that I sould be selling you coins at cheap prices, you can go to the next table. Lines like "So & so is selling these coins for X," does not impress me at all. Go buy the coins from "So & so" if he's selling them cheap. Why are you bothering with me?
<< <i>here's how i look at it. 1st of all, i stand by my mantra:
if you like the coin, if you really REALLY like it, then the price does not matter.
therefore, i have formed good relationships w/ dealers i trust. when he has a coin i might like, i simply ask "what's the best price". since we've had a good, long relationship, i rely on his honesty.
i do not like to negotiate or haggle, though i have a lot of respect for those who do.
K S >>
Allow me to amend my earlier answer by completely agreing with Karl. There are a couple of guys who are able to consistently find the oddball stuff I like to collect, and they know in turn that when I get to a show theirs are the first tables I'm hitting. I very, VERY rarely quibble with the prices these guys quote me. How can I possibly justify beating down someone on price who sees me approaching his table, reaches back behind his case to pull out a nice clipped Seated Dime, and says, "I'm glad you're here - I set this aside for you because I knew you'd love it - ignore the price on the holder, I can do better for you." Guys like that deserve every bit of their asking price and my business.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Wow, several big question rolled into one thread. The replies are a task to read through.
Negotiating should be undertaken with caution. I think one or two have picked up on the downside of negotiating. If you do to much of it, it will cost you opportunities down the road. I know this from personal experience. With one dealer, I tried negotiating once and I have never seen another coin from him since.
Nonetheless, I look at a coin and make an assessment on what I think it is worth. If the asking price is close, I'll pay it. If not, I will usually just send it back with a note thanking the person for the opportunity.
Negotiating is probably not a good routine practice.
Jack
Some dealers have coins on memo and cant negotiate on prices for anyone.
Some dealers stole the coins from a little old lady and are happy to get $ asap for what ever they have.
Some dealers pay to much for coins and have to sell them for to much +10%.
Some dealers leave their buy price on the holders so you cant really ask them to take a loss on a new purchase.
Some dealers undergrade and if they selling a coin for half its true value should you really beat them up on the price?
Some dealers over price their coins so they can give 50% discounts on anything they sell and occassionally sell something at full price.
Personally i price my coins so there is a little room for negotiations. Ive found that if i put a rock solid price on the coins then collectors tend to pass more, they like to feel they getting the better of you. I do know dealers that price coins in their store 25% over trends for common coins so they can give huge discounts to customers to make them feel special "i dont give this discount to just anyone you know *wink".
IMO if you are after a rare coin, in the current marketplace you probably wont be able to talk the dealer down as much now as you could have in 1995 when the market was much much slower. If you are buying relatively common coins then it all depends on the dealer you are dealing with. If i can wholesale a silver dollar in VF for 10$, and im asking you 10$ for the coin, why would i let you talk me down less then that. On the other hand if i have a wonderfully toned jefferson nickel that catalogs at $1.50 and i want $50 from a tone nickel collector i would probably take $40 if that was the best you would give, considering the wholesale might be $.05 if a specialist dont buy it.
In recent months i have had a more difficult time buying rare coins as dealer inventories shrink with the lack of new material coming on the market and the speed in which collectors are buying coins. As a result i have been paying higher and higher prices for coins thus have to charge higher and higher prices to collectors, and having less and less room to negotiate myself. I think you will find the same with most other coin dealers at this time. Im not saying dont negoatiate if you see a coin you want, there is no price fixed in stone in this business but im guessing at this time you will have more trouble then in a softer market.
Sorry for rambling on,
Andrew
Warning - several questions to follow..........
How many of you either buy a coin at its listed asking price or pass on it, but don't try to negotiate?
DEPENDS ON WHO IT IS AND HOW EXPENSIVE THE COIN IS. SOME GUYS PRICE THEIR COINS EXPECTING TO GET COUNTERS AND OTHERS PRICE THEIR COINS EXPECTING THE BUYERS TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE COIN HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCOUNTED.....(UT REMEMBER....EVERYONE LIKES DISCOUNT)
To those who do negotiate, what goes into your thinking about whether to counter-offer and if so, by how much?
HOW MUCH I CHERISH THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE DEALER....SOME DEALERS WILL EVENTUALLY STOP DEALING WITH GUYS WHO CHISLE THEM TO THE BONE ON EVERY SINGLE COIN DEAL. SOME DEALERS WILL PRICE A COIN AT X, BUYER CALLS AND SAYS i'LL PAY .5X, DEALER SAYS TO HIMSELF, HAD ENOUGH, SAYS TO DUDE, OH WAIT A MINUTE, THAT COIN JUST GOT SOLD TO BOB IN SHREVEPORT.
Does the price/value range of the coin make any difference?
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION
If you're off by a certain % or amount do you just pass instead of worrying about insulting the seller?
A PINCH IS ALWAYS A PINCH AND IT'S IRRELEVANT AND "PINCHES" ARE ALL RELATIVE.
Does your research of prices/values come into play?
YES
Does it matter which dealer it is?
YES, SEE ABOVE.
Does it make a difference if you're at a show instead of doing business through the mail?
YES, IF A DEALER HAS SENT ME A COIN AT X AND IT COMES AND I WANT IT, TO TRY TO PINCH THE GUY AFTER THE COIN ARRIVES IS TO SAY "I AM A MORON" UNLESS HE SENDS YOU FOUR COINS AND YOU WANT DISCOUNT BECAUSE YOU MIGHT BUY ALL FOUR
Does it make any difference if you think or know you're getting first shot at the coin and that others are in line behind you?
DEPENDS ....IF I BUY A LOT, I WILL WANT FIRST SHOT AND REASONABLE PRICES
Come on, "spill the beans" to the rest of us?????
HERE ARE THE BEANS. YOU SHOULD BE GENEROUS TO PEOPLE WHO TAKE CARE OF YOU BECAUSE THEY TAKE CARE OF YOU AND BECAUSE YOU WANT THEM TO TAKE CARE OF YOU IN THE FUTURE HOWEVER NOBODY WANTS THEIR GENEROSITY TO BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF AND EVERYONE WHO IS GENEROUS AND FAIR WANTS TO BE APPRECIATED.
I usually have an idea in my mind about what a coin is worth, and am prepared to pay something like that if the coin fits my budget. That's my counter-offer. I don't low-ball. If the dealer has a coin that's priced far beyond that, I'll let them know what I'd honestly be willing to pay, and let it go at that. Sometimes a dealer has a coin priced high on consignment because of the owner's expectations, and the dealer needs a basis to get back to the consignor about where the market realistically is. If the coin is more or less reasonably priced, I'll then commonly ask for the "best price" as a matter of routine.
I consider what I'm prepared to pay fair, and I don't presume I'll insult the seller by passing on it.
Obviously, how badly I want it has something to do with whether I'll haggle or not, and how much.
The dealer is not important with respect to whether I follow these guidelines or not, although the quality of the coin/the price may occasion greater scrutiny on my part for some dealers than for others.
That process goes for all venues: online, at shows, etc.
I'm confident you'll not exploit any of these revelations, Feld!
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>Warning - several questions to follow..........
How many of you either buy a coin at its listed asking price or pass on it, but don't try to negotiate?
Generally I will pay asking price. If the price is very out of whack, it raises questions about the dealer.
To those who do negotiate, what goes into your thinking about whether to counter-offer and if so, by how much?
N/A
Does the price/value range of the coin make any difference?
If I want the coin and the price is reasonable, I buy it.
If you're off by a certain % or amount do you just pass instead of worrying about insulting the seller?
Does your research of prices/values come into play?
I tend to know what the price should be before I look to purchase something.
Does it matter which dealer it is?
It depends on if I have had past dealings with the dealer or not.
Does it make a difference if you're at a show instead of doing business through the mail?
No difference.
Does it make any difference if you think or know you're getting first shot at the coin and that others are in line behind you?
Yes it does; so long as it is true that there are others interested in it.
Come on, "spill the beans" to the rest of us?????
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Direct hit Anaconda...well said. Everyone has a "go to", home town dealer when there is a coin you really must have. You do need to take care of that guy and quibbling is the fastest way there is to get the big boot. So, if you leave him an extra 5% or 10%, so what...everybody has a smile on their face after the deal, you get a nice coin and he gets a little profit for his trouble. My "go to" guy states his price and I buy or pass, no quibbling but I always give him a chance to boost the coin a little so he can feel good about selling his wares and there is only one coin I didn't buy from him and I should have because I havent seen one like that since. We still do deals and he is great! Shows are a completely different venue though, everyone is fresh meat on a pointy stick on either side of the table...at least that's how I always come away feeling.
<< <i>How about you Coinguy1? What are your answers? >>
Here are my answers to my own questions:
<< <i>How many of you either buy a coin at its listed asking price or pass on it, but don't try to negotiate? >>
I will pass on a coin without making a counter-offer if the price I am willing to pay is too far off from the asking price, and in my mind, there is no realistic chance my counter will be accepted.
Why risk upsetting someone in such instances? However, I am also aware that certain sellers often quote far more than they are willing to accept for their coins. So, while in some cases if I am off by more than about 10% I wont counter, if I am dealing with a seller who is known for taking "shots" I might counter, even if off by as much as approximately 30%. Of course, it bothers me greatly if, for example, someone quotes $1000, but will accept $800 or even $700!
<< <i>To those who do negotiate, what goes into your thinking about whether to counter-offer and if so, by how much? >>
Before asking for a price quote, I try to come up with a fair/acceptable price in my mind. If the quoted price is that amount or less, I will not counter. If the quoted price is above what I had in mind but not too far above it (see my answer above about that), I will make a counter-offer.
<< <i>Does the price/value range of the coin make any difference? >>
Yes, it does to me. I am less likely to counter on a very low priced item and more inclined to counter on a higher priced coin, especially if it is unusually esoteric and/or illiquid.
<< <i>If you're off by a certain % or amount do you just pass instead of worrying about insulting the seller? >>
Yes, coinguy, at a certain point I will pass without countering (again, see my first answer above).
<< <i> Does your research of prices/values come into play? >>
You bet it does. In many cases I check out auction price records or rely upon my memory regarding what similar pieces have sold for in the recent past.
<< <i>Does it matter which dealer it is? >>
Yes, it does. I know from experience that certain dealers typically work on much tighter margins/price spreads than others do. If the dealer works on a small margin and I am off by more than about 10% on the price, I will not bother to counter, and instead just pass. If I know the dealer to be one that takes "shots", I feel more free to counter by larger amounts.
<< <i>Does it make a difference if you're at a show instead of doing business through the mail? >>
Not really.
<< <i> Does it make any difference if you think or know you're getting first shot at the coin and that others are in line behind you? >>
Yes, it does make a difference. I appreciate being at the top of the pecking order and try to reward the seller for putting me in that position.
I don't like to make counter-offers, though I often do. Sometimes I will even make offers on coins (before the seller quotes a price). That way, I don't have to counter-offer if it turns out that the seller wants more than I'm willing to pay. The seller, (instead of me) is then put in the position of saying yes, no, or countering. He becomes the "bad guy" if my offer is unacceptable and he wants to try to get a higher price, as opposed to my being the "bad guy" if the seller quotes a price first, which I think is too high.
So what to do? You'll just have to pick your way thru the minefield of personalities of those who sell you coins and find out who you're comfortable buying from and on what terms. I buy from many different dealers and find that a friendly attitude will usually result in a successful transaction - I've found that there's lots of coins available, and if you can't buy from one dealer, there's always someone who's friendly and willing to take your money!
Or putting it another way: TOO many coins, not enough money!
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
Not necessarily true. The last two coins that I bought from my regular gold coin source were invoiced at a discount of about 5% from the price posted on the internet. We never discussed price on either coin. When I order a coin from him, I understand that I am getting the best price that he can give me. If I wanted, could I get him to knock off another 1 or 2%? Probably. Is it worth it? Probably not.
Anaconda writes:
PEOPLE GET WAY TOO HUNG UP ON MONEY AND GETTING THINGS CHEAPLY. IT'S A COIN, NOT A SOYBEAN.
I agree with him.
<< <i>No dealer is just gonna offer you a lower price out of the blue so unless you ask for his best price you won't get a break. >>
I have to say I also disagree with this. Many times a dealer will ask if they can help me, and I will state that I am looking at this or that particular coin, but I'm not sure. Then I will state that this dealer has several nice coins. Usually (9 out of10) the dealer goes to the computer, or paperwork, looking to se what his/her best price is. Then they come back and tell me if I was interested in this coin, they could let it go for $X. Happens to me all of the time.
I will also ask for a break if I am purchasing more than one coin. "Will you take $X for these three?" - usually this works, but only on more expensive coins.
I usually know what I want to pay for something, and what I am willing to pay for it. I am only a collector, so if the coin is one that I want, and it is at a price that I am willing to pay - I will take it.
One last thing - if I stop by a table and notice that the first two or three coins that catch my eye are *way* overpriced, I walk away. The dealer may have done this to make negotiating seem like a deal, not sure, but I'm not interested.
Edit: Forgot - thanks Coinguy1 - your threads are always informative and thought provoking!
You are doing well, subject 15837. You are a good person.