The one thing that is making me stick to my guns is how the color sits on a simi PL surface of the coin......the photo's are different than the coin in person.
But then I am just a wannabe criminal coin flipper dealer. Wonder if that would all fit on a business card?
So, all knowing Eric, what's wrong with this coin. TRY to use facts instead of your personal opinion......given your 27 years of experience. I am curious. >>
Real easy Bryan, there isn't a bit of gold/orange/brown that would be on a coin that was NT. This is a well done AT coin, but they forgot to add the gold/orange/brown that is present on any NT coin. Of course, if you had any real experience with toned Morgans you would know that, but as we all know you started out by selling obviously AT'ed ACG garbage. >>
So, is that your final say? Just wanted to make sure the quote stayed on the thread. Shame that the coin has a possible shill bidder as I would love to see a TGP's take on the coin. Shame that I have sold several with the same pattern and colors in current TPG slabs plus seen at least 6 others belonging to "esteemed" toner collectors on this board. Maybe they will feel emboldened to comment on their coins vs. this one.
With the fact that your deep south, trailer trash upbringing has only allowed you to buy / sell marginal toners (based off of your many educational crescent / b color coin post), my opinion is that you have little or no experience with truly rare monster toned coins.......if you had you would have posted them as your ego and great knowledge base would have demanded it. >>
So, all knowing Eric, what's wrong with this coin. TRY to use facts instead of your personal opinion......given your 27 years of experience. I am curious. >>
Real easy Bryan, there isn't a bit of gold/orange/brown that would be on a coin that was NT. This is a well done AT coin, but they forgot to add the gold/orange/brown that is present on any NT coin. Of course, if you had any real experience with toned Morgans you would know that, but as we all know you started out by selling obviously AT'ed ACG garbage. >>
So, is that your final say? Just wanted to make sure the quote stayed on the thread. Shame that the coin has a possible shill bidder as I would love to see a TGP's take on the coin. Shame that I have sold several with the same pattern and colors in current TPG slabs plus seen at least 6 others belonging to "esteemed" toner collectors on this board. Maybe they will feel emboldened to comment on their coins vs. this one.
With the fact that your deep south, trailer trash upbringing has only allowed you to buy / sell marginal toners (based off of your many educational crescent / b color coin post), my opinion is that you have little or no experience with truly rare monster toned coins.......if you had you would have posted them as your ego and great knowledge base would have demanded it. >>
>>
Who wrote what here? Or did you quote a post by TBT that has since been edited?
half of ya dont know half of what your talking about, except for a good comeback. including the snake,tbt,eric,etc... ya'll do make for entertaining view, however...
I don't know. Looking at that image and the others in the auction, I'm not convinced the coin is housed in a Kointain™. There is no reflection evident anywhere that would indicate a plastic covering over the coin.
<< <i> I don't know. Looking at that image and the others in the auction, I'm not convinced the coin is housed in a Kointain™. There is no reflection evident anywhere that would indicate a plastic covering over the coin.
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ, I agree but when i looked at this view i think i can see the "cointain" <sp?> because of how the reeding looks. Smooth. The cointain certainly doesn't present itself on any of the other surfaces tho.
Hello Jeff! AKA Doop/Doops. I have to go to Jackson thursday. Is Bill still in business at Bill's pawn and stamp! Hope you are feeling better. The best to you and yours! And aint this been intresting reading?
In an insane society, a sane person will appear to be insane.
For all my little humble opinion is worth....that coin is a little too much of a stretch for me--- I think that coin toned in a very quick fashion and in a very AT kind of way----Good for AT, but still AT, and it is coins like that that I think will shatter the real NT market when it can be perfected just a little bit more. IMHO, a coin like that is scary for real nice NT collectors collections. All this, of course, IMHO if anyone cares.
This thread compelled me to crack out Wayne Miller's textbook. It seems none of the bag toned dollars that he shows in his book bear any significant resemblance to these two coins. The bag toned dollars he shows all have a "deepness" to them. These two appear to be shallow by comparison. Also, the toned dollars that Miller shows on the page with "some of the most beautiful toned dollars in existence" have "coppery" colored areas evident on the bag toned coins in varying degrees.
Where are the copper hues, the browns, the golds, the oranges?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
<< <i>This thread compelled me to crack out Wayne Miller's textbook. It seems none of the bag toned dollars that he shows in his book bear any significant resemblance to these two coins. The bag toned dollars he shows all have a "deepness" to them. These two appear to be shallow by comparison. Also, the toned dollars that Miller shows on the page with "some of the most beautiful toned dollars in existence" have "coppery" colored areas evident on the bag toned coins in varying degrees.
Where are the copper hues, the browns, the golds, the oranges? >>
<< <i>The problem here is the seller claims it is a bag toned dollar. I've been on hand on over 20 original bags being opened, and I've never seen one come out of a bag looking like that. >>
I normally don't get into threads which contain bashing or the AT versus the NT thing, but I have seen coins with this look come out of bags. In fact I own a 83P with this maroon/green tone. It came out of a sealed mint bag at the 1987 Silver Dollar Convention, and yes I was present when the bag was opened so this is not hearsay.
If It doesn't have great eye appeal, I don't want it.
What amazes me is the alarmingly large numbers of toned coins, not just dollars, that are available for collectors to buy these days. Mint bag toning took decades to develop on some of the coins in a mint bag. Many, many uncirculated silver dollars were melted down and not replaced with "new" dollars. By some estimates, half of all Morgan dollars ever made were lost in the melting pots over the years. A naturally toned dollar that managed to keep its colors into the '60's often then went kicking and screaming into some kind of dip to make it bright again. A toned coin was widely considered "tarnished" by newbies of the day. There's something wrong with the math as one peruses ebay and looks at rainbow after rainbow after rainbow. Just my opinion.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
<< <i>The problem here is the seller claims it is a bag toned dollar. I've been on hand on over 20 original bags being opened, and I've never seen one come out of a bag looking like that. >>
I normally don't get into threads which contain bashing or the AT versus the NT thing, but I have seen coins with this look come out of bags. In fact I own a 83P with this maroon/green tone. It came out of a sealed mint bag at the 1987 Silver Dollar Convention, and yes I was present when the bag was opened so this is not hearsay. >>
I have had several PM discussions on this coin, and it could very well be that the image isn't true to the coin. Still, if it did indeed come out of a bag, it is one like I have never seen before. Regardless, to pay that type of money for a sight unseen toned common date is not very wise in my opinion.
<< <i>What amazes me is the alarmingly large numbers of toned coins, not just dollars, that are available for collectors to buy these days. Mint bag toning took decades to develop on some of the coins in a mint bag. Many, many uncirculated silver dollars were melted down and not replaced with "new" dollars. By some estimates, half of all Morgan dollars ever made were lost in the melting pots over the years. A naturally toned dollar that managed to keep its colors into the '60's often then went kicking and screaming into some kind of dip to make it bright again. A toned coin was widely considered "tarnished" by newbies of the day. There's something wrong with the math as one peruses ebay and looks at rainbow after rainbow after rainbow. Just my opinion. >>
This is what I am really driving at here. I don't recall ever seeing so many "rainbow" coins being offered. I also believe there are some pretty good coin doctors manufacturing the supply to meet the demand. As I posted earlier, this "A" color game is a house of cards that is going to come down hard eventually. I suspected this may be the case, which is why I sold all my "A" coins four years ago and have only played with the "B" coins for the last couple of years. You can still find coins that have nice color for a reasonable premium, not these "A" coins going for 20-100x sheet.
<< <i><< What amazes me is the alarmingly large numbers of toned coins, not just dollars, that are available for collectors to buy these days. Mint bag toning took decades to develop on some of the coins in a mint bag. Many, many uncirculated silver dollars were melted down and not replaced with "new" dollars. By some estimates, half of all Morgan dollars ever made were lost in the melting pots over the years. A naturally toned dollar that managed to keep its colors into the '60's often then went kicking and screaming into some kind of dip to make it bright again. A toned coin was widely considered "tarnished" by newbies of the day. >>
I totally agree. I never saw this amount of colored coins 20-25 years ago- and mind you this was when everyone was cashing in on silver and morgans hidden away for decades were being brought out. mike
<< <i>This is what I am really driving at here. I don't recall ever seeing so many "rainbow" coins being offered. I also believe there are some pretty good coin doctors manufacturing the supply to meet the demand. As I posted earlier, this "A" color game is a house of cards that is going to come down hard eventually. I suspected this may be the case, which is why I sold all my "A" coins four years ago and have only played with the "B" coins for the last couple of years. You can still find coins that have nice color for a reasonable premium, not these "A" coins going for 20-100x sheet. >>
But wouldn't you rather own just one amazingly toned Morgan- if you knew it was real toning, rather than a dozen ho-hum, common, dull toned ones?
Edited to add: It goes back to the "Box of Twenty" concept. Owning a few truly gifted and stunning coins rather than a cedar chest full of commons.
To those who feel that the available number of such (toned) coins is far greater than it was 10 or 20 years ago, I offer this possibility......
Perhaps the number is the same as it used to be. But, due to the internet, chat-rooms such as this, etc. the information is much more widely, quickly and efficiently disseminated?
I am a collector of certain antique toys. When I started collecting in 1991, my only two realistic means of finding such items were antique shows and public auctions. Now days, just because of Ebay, many more of these toys are potentially available to collectors. AND, it turns out that some of them are not nearly as rare as once thought. Prices have adjusted accordingly over time.
<< <i>The problem here is the seller claims it is a bag toned dollar. I've been on hand on over 20 original bags being opened, and I've never seen one come out of a bag looking like that. >>
I normally don't get into threads which contain bashing or the AT versus the NT thing, but I have seen coins with this look come out of bags. In fact I own a 83P with this maroon/green tone. It came out of a sealed mint bag at the 1987 Silver Dollar Convention, and yes I was present when the bag was opened so this is not hearsay. >>
If you can, post a pic of your 83-P, I'd like to see it!! I like your Peace Dollar icon as well!
Comments
But then I am just a wannabe criminal coin flipper dealer. Wonder if that would all fit on a business card?
Yes, and when you figure in the weight of the bag itself, it comes to nearly 60 lbs. on the nose............. as I said.
09/07/2006
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Hmmmm, nope....guess again.
So, all knowing Eric, what's wrong with this coin. TRY to use facts instead of your personal opinion......given your 27 years of experience. I am curious. >>
Real easy Bryan, there isn't a bit of gold/orange/brown that would be on a coin that was NT. This is a well done AT coin, but they forgot to add the gold/orange/brown that is present on any NT coin. Of course, if you had any real experience with toned Morgans you would know that, but as we all know you started out by selling obviously AT'ed ACG garbage. >>
So, is that your final say? Just wanted to make sure the quote stayed on the thread. Shame that the coin has a possible shill bidder as I would love to see a TGP's take on the coin. Shame that I have sold several with the same pattern and colors in current TPG slabs plus seen at least 6 others belonging to "esteemed" toner collectors on this board. Maybe they will feel emboldened to comment on their coins vs. this one.
With the fact that your deep south, trailer trash upbringing has only allowed you to buy / sell marginal toners (based off of your many educational crescent / b color coin post), my opinion is that you have little or no experience with truly rare monster toned coins.......if you had you would have posted them as your ego and great knowledge base would have demanded it. >>
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Hmmmm, nope....guess again.
So, all knowing Eric, what's wrong with this coin. TRY to use facts instead of your personal opinion......given your 27 years of experience. I am curious. >>
Real easy Bryan, there isn't a bit of gold/orange/brown that would be on a coin that was NT. This is a well done AT coin, but they forgot to add the gold/orange/brown that is present on any NT coin. Of course, if you had any real experience with toned Morgans you would know that, but as we all know you started out by selling obviously AT'ed ACG garbage. >>
So, is that your final say? Just wanted to make sure the quote stayed on the thread. Shame that the coin has a possible shill bidder as I would love to see a TGP's take on the coin. Shame that I have sold several with the same pattern and colors in current TPG slabs plus seen at least 6 others belonging to "esteemed" toner collectors on this board. Maybe they will feel emboldened to comment on their coins vs. this one.
With the fact that your deep south, trailer trash upbringing has only allowed you to buy / sell marginal toners (based off of your many educational crescent / b color coin post), my opinion is that you have little or no experience with truly rare monster toned coins.......if you had you would have posted them as your ego and great knowledge base would have demanded it. >>
>>
Who wrote what here? Or did you quote a post by TBT that has since been edited?
<< <i>I wonder if the fingerprints will come off of this one without ruining the toning?
Russ, NCNE >>
Same guy!!! Wow is all I an say...What say you now all the ones who thought the first one was NT????
The coin is in a cointain (sp) holder
Rainbow Stars
<< <i>The coin is in a cointain (sp) holder >>
Ah, okay. No problem with prints then.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
Who wrote what here? Or did you quote a post by TBT that has since been edited? >>
Eric,
Re-read the post ssssllllloooowwwwwlllllyyyyy and you will find the post. BTW, nothing has been changed.....just for you. Start at the top.
<< <i> The coin is in a cointain (sp) holder >>
Wow ! Those "cointain" things must be pretty thin. I can't even see it.
Especially around the edges
ya'll do make for entertaining view, however...
<< <i>Those "cointain" things must be pretty thin. >>
They are. They fit the coins very snugly.
Russ, NCNE
Cameron Kiefer
Russ, NCNE
<< <i> I don't know. Looking at that image and the others in the auction, I'm not convinced the coin is housed in a Kointain™. There is no reflection evident anywhere that would indicate a plastic covering over the coin.
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ,
I agree but when i looked at this view i think i can see the "cointain" <sp?> because of how the reeding looks. Smooth.
The cointain certainly doesn't present itself on any of the other surfaces tho.
<< <i>I agree but when i looked at this view i think i can see the "cointain >>
Yep, in that image that coin is definitely housed in one.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>K6 and TBT, can you guys cool it for awhile or what?? >>
Cool!
Well this one sold for "only" $610. Obverse toning rules!!!
Where are the copper hues, the browns, the golds, the oranges?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
<< <i>This thread compelled me to crack out Wayne Miller's textbook. It seems none of the bag toned dollars that he shows in his book bear any significant resemblance to these two coins. The bag toned dollars he shows all have a "deepness" to them. These two appear to be shallow by comparison. Also, the toned dollars that Miller shows on the page with "some of the most beautiful toned dollars in existence" have "coppery" colored areas evident on the bag toned coins in varying degrees.
Where are the copper hues, the browns, the golds, the oranges? >>
LOL
<< <i>Where are the copper hues, the browns, the golds, the oranges? >> >>
Where are the brains?
<< <i>
<< <i>Where are the copper hues, the browns, the golds, the oranges? >> >>
Where are the brains? >>
Exactly
<< <i>The problem here is the seller claims it is a bag toned dollar. I've been on hand on over 20 original bags being opened, and I've never seen one come out of a bag looking like that. >>
I normally don't get into threads which contain bashing or the AT versus the NT thing, but I have seen coins with this look come out of bags. In fact I own a 83P with this maroon/green tone. It came out of a sealed mint bag at the 1987 Silver Dollar Convention, and yes I was present when the bag was opened so this is not hearsay.
There's something wrong with the math as one peruses ebay and looks at rainbow after rainbow after rainbow. Just my opinion.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
<< <i>
<< <i>The problem here is the seller claims it is a bag toned dollar. I've been on hand on over 20 original bags being opened, and I've never seen one come out of a bag looking like that. >>
I normally don't get into threads which contain bashing or the AT versus the NT thing, but I have seen coins with this look come out of bags. In fact I own a 83P with this maroon/green tone. It came out of a sealed mint bag at the 1987 Silver Dollar Convention, and yes I was present when the bag was opened so this is not hearsay. >>
I have had several PM discussions on this coin, and it could very well be that the image isn't true to the coin. Still, if it did indeed come out of a bag, it is one like I have never seen before. Regardless, to pay that type of money for a sight unseen toned common date is not very wise in my opinion.
<< <i>What amazes me is the alarmingly large numbers of toned coins, not just dollars, that are available for collectors to buy these days. Mint bag toning took decades to develop on some of the coins in a mint bag. Many, many uncirculated silver dollars were melted down and not replaced with "new" dollars. By some estimates, half of all Morgan dollars ever made were lost in the melting pots over the years. A naturally toned dollar that managed to keep its colors into the '60's often then went kicking and screaming into some kind of dip to make it bright again. A toned coin was widely considered "tarnished" by newbies of the day.
There's something wrong with the math as one peruses ebay and looks at rainbow after rainbow after rainbow. Just my opinion. >>
This is what I am really driving at here. I don't recall ever seeing so many "rainbow" coins being offered. I also believe there are some pretty good coin doctors manufacturing the supply to meet the demand. As I posted earlier, this "A" color game is a house of cards that is going to come down hard eventually. I suspected this may be the case, which is why I sold all my "A" coins four years ago and have only played with the "B" coins for the last couple of years. You can still find coins that have nice color for a reasonable premium, not these "A" coins going for 20-100x sheet.
<< <i><< What amazes me is the alarmingly large numbers of toned coins, not just dollars, that are available for collectors to buy these days. Mint bag toning took decades to develop on some of the coins in a mint bag. Many, many uncirculated silver dollars were melted down and not replaced with "new" dollars. By some estimates, half of all Morgan dollars ever made were lost in the melting pots over the years. A naturally toned dollar that managed to keep its colors into the '60's often then went kicking and screaming into some kind of dip to make it bright again. A toned coin was widely considered "tarnished" by newbies of the day. >>
I totally agree. I never saw this amount of colored coins 20-25 years ago- and mind you this was when everyone was cashing in on silver and morgans hidden away for decades were being brought out. mike
<< <i>This is what I am really driving at here. I don't recall ever seeing so many "rainbow" coins being offered. I also believe there are some pretty good coin doctors manufacturing the supply to meet the demand. As I posted earlier, this "A" color game is a house of cards that is going to come down hard eventually. I suspected this may be the case, which is why I sold all my "A" coins four years ago and have only played with the "B" coins for the last couple of years. You can still find coins that have nice color for a reasonable premium, not these "A" coins going for 20-100x sheet. >>
But wouldn't you rather own just one amazingly toned Morgan- if you knew it was real toning, rather than a dozen ho-hum, common, dull toned ones?
Edited to add: It goes back to the "Box of Twenty" concept. Owning a few truly gifted and stunning coins rather than a cedar chest full of commons.
peacockcoins
Perhaps the number is the same as it used to be. But, due to the internet, chat-rooms such as this, etc. the information is much more widely, quickly and efficiently disseminated?
I am a collector of certain antique toys. When I started collecting in 1991, my only two realistic means of finding such items were antique shows and public auctions. Now days, just because of Ebay, many more of these toys are potentially available to collectors. AND, it turns out that some of them are not nearly as rare as once thought. Prices have adjusted accordingly over time.
<< <i> Regardless, to pay that type of money for a sight unseen toned common date is not very wise in my opinion. >>
Sight unseen, yes, but sold by an apparently (100% good feedback) reputable seller with a 5 day return.
(and not even a "re-stocking" charge on the return!).
Doesn't seem particularly "unwise" to me.
Nice looking coin, too.
okay, bye.
z
<< <i>
<< <i>The problem here is the seller claims it is a bag toned dollar. I've been on hand on over 20 original bags being opened, and I've never seen one come out of a bag looking like that. >>
I normally don't get into threads which contain bashing or the AT versus the NT thing, but I have seen coins with this look come out of bags. In fact I own a 83P with this maroon/green tone. It came out of a sealed mint bag at the 1987 Silver Dollar Convention, and yes I was present when the bag was opened so this is not hearsay. >>
If you can, post a pic of your 83-P, I'd like to see it!! I like your Peace Dollar icon as well!
Rainbow Stars
As Eric pointed out, I wonder if the 81-S images are true-to-life. I suspect they look more like the 85.